Natural Selection 2 News Update - NS2 Build 181 released

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  • WasabiOneWasabiOne Co-Lead NS2 CDT Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104623Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    Props again to UWE.... The patch overall has some big ups, but of course there are still a few bugs with it :)

    I will say at first I didnt like the fact that aliens couldnt leap since that was a great tactic to use on a group of marines, I got over it though.

    Cysts seem to be working better now too

    ACUTALLY HEARD COMM CHAIR ATTACK SOUNDS!!!!!! YEA!!!!

    love the power up sound, but it made my ears bleed (needs to be turned down)

    love the coughing marine from spores, but I think since spores effect marines without damaging armor (which is how it should be) they shouldnt do as much damage at least until exo suit comes into the game. Spores are a deterant but now you can take out like 3 marines in a matter of 3 or 4 seconds.

    MACs and Arcs like too go to the great beyond which just kills the game

    I found that until we had the mac/arc problem the performance overall was much better later inthe game than usual. sweet!

    again thanks UWE!
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members
    edited July 2011
    gameplay balance problem
    - spores are way too powerful. a lerk can swoop through the base and reduce an entire team to a few hp points, then it's easy pickings for a fade who is hard to kill at the best of times. I suggest making it quite a bit less harmful, but make it stay in the air for longer so the lerk can do area denial. Firing a spore cloud shouldn't have the same effect as a snipe attack. If you guys want to keep it this powerful, then you should reduce the lerk's health. A lerk costs 30 res right, but it's much more valuable than what 30 res can buy you as a marine.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    edited July 2011
    All of the aliens are, it's a general problem with alien balance that all of their stuff is better and easier to keep than marine stuff. Hives, lifeforms, most of their structures.
  • NasderoNasdero Join Date: 2008-11-11 Member: 65423Members
    ok i played now for 4 hours the new 181 and i think its great, performance is going better and better but its still not good... but i played marine for 4 hours and ive seen lerks with a kd ratio of 34 to 2 , hell the spore stuff is WAY overpowered i stand 3-4 seconds in that dust and im done and aliens now tend to have at least the half team lerk even if they can get fades they dont want... so you got 4-5 lerks spamming the map with that stuff you cant go anywhere ... you need to fix this pls!! quick!!!
  • CorpseyCorpsey Join Date: 2011-07-02 Member: 107538Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1862789:date=Jul 23 2011, 03:02 PM:name=wacko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wacko @ Jul 23 2011, 03:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862789"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm I do not get why the macs are any slower than before they have the same move speed setup the drifters do and they are not effected by this slow down<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Actually the MAC's and ARC's speed seem to be reversed, ARCs move faster than normal, MACs move slower than normal so maybe there is just some naming convention mix up?
  • MaGicBushMaGicBush Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10378Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1862658:date=Jul 23 2011, 03:47 AM:name=Magneto)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Magneto @ Jul 23 2011, 03:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone else think they need to change the button for changing spectator view to something other than attack?

    It gets annoying as alien waiting to spawn, you have to click or stay stuck as spectator and when you do your view changes to following, if you hold it down it makes a stupid noise and keeps changing, it's annoying and should be right click or something, either that or make respawning automatic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I don't understand why it's not automatic anyways? Marine spawns are, and it's just annoying as I forget to click half the time lol(not use to it from any game).
  • GohanZetaGohanZeta Join Date: 2010-11-18 Member: 74996Members, NS2 Playtester
    Its a great patch so far, did some really great games. Feels a lot smoother now for me, tho this might be only me.

    But the one thing that really bugged is, it looks like those new turrets have some sort of anti-bilebomb-coating.
    I bombed about 40 Biles into 2 turrets and they didnt even seem to care, a Lerk had to snipe em down in the end. Was still able to bomb down some power gens and a Phase Gate pretty easy. Or its just the turrets got their health boosted by 100%, even as a fade it took me quite some time to take down a single turret (about 2-3% a swipe) which i dont really care about, Fades are working great for what they are made for (at least in this current state). Didnt try to bite down a turret yet but looks like skulks are still doing pretty well on it.

    So end of Story: Did any1 else notice Bilebombs being totally useless on turrets (which hasnt been this way in 180)?
  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Members
    I've seen magical drifters 60ft above parts of the map, lerk gas is overpowered, shotgun needs a buff, preferably in the time it takes to shoot from a running state (Reduce it.).
    Other than that the patch is good so far!
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer
    edited July 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1862821:date=Jul 23 2011, 09:05 PM:name=MaGicBush)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaGicBush @ Jul 23 2011, 09:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't understand why it's not automatic anyways? Marine spawns are, and it's just annoying as I forget to click half the time lol(not use to it from any game).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well, the spawning is only half implemented at the moment, and admittedly confusing. The plan is that when spawning as an alien the camera will be put inside the egg, you'll have a semi transparent/translucent membraney texture over the screen, similar to NS1, and you can move you mouse to look around some. The glowing embryo inside the egg model, which currently can't be seen because we don't have the transparency in game yet to see through the egg, will spin around matching the your mouselook movement. Then you can choose the time you want to spawn, like maybe waiting for a marine to run by first, then spawning behind him to surprise him. Also, there will be some kind of tool tip or visual indicator to let you know when you are ready to spawn.

    --Cory
  • prevertmaximusprevertmaximus Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11630Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, the spawning is only half implemented at the moment, and admittedly confusing. The plan is that when spawning as an alien the camera will be put inside the egg, you'll have a semi transparent/translucent membraney texture over the screen, similar to NS1, and you can move you mouse to look around some. The glowing embryo inside the egg model, which currently can't be seen because we don't have the transparency in game yet to see through the egg, will spin around matching the your mouselook movement. Then you can choose the time you want to spawn, like maybe waiting for a marine to run by first, then spawning behind him to surprise him. Also, there will be some kind of tool tip or visual indicator to let you know when you are ready to spawn.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    From my experience, every person that has played marines in NS2 has learned that the first thing to shoot when they enter an alien hive is the eggs. So in addition to the fact that in most situations aliens won't be able to 'wait and surprise' the marines when they spawn, the current egg system also makes it incredibly easy to spawn camp when compared to NS1 since you can visually see all the spawn points in NS2. Maybe if there were more eggs at a given time and the aliens could choose which egg to spawn in, then it wouldn't be as easy for marines to spawn camp.

    Maximus
  • WilsonWilson Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72867Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1862789:date=Jul 23 2011, 08:02 PM:name=wacko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wacko @ Jul 23 2011, 08:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862789"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm I do not get why the macs are any slower than before they have the same move speed setup the drifters do and they are not effected by this slow down<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I've noticed that MACs seem to slow down when the tickrate gets low. The previous poster could have been playing on a poor performing server.
  • JibrailJibrail Join Date: 2009-04-16 Member: 67200Members
    edited July 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1862788:date=Jul 23 2011, 07:53 PM:name=wacko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wacko @ Jul 23 2011, 07:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862788"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yes so the way this works is you add a language txt file to the gamestrings folder(I would just copy enUS.txt) and name is the fourCC of your locale in this case for say arabic it would be arSA.txt then in game_setup.xml you will see the other locales you need to add your locale their so the game knows to load it then restart the game bring up the console(yea i know its lame but we have not redone the main menu yet :P) and type option locale arSA and then reload the game and you will see your new text... DO NOT OVERRIDE the enUS.txt locale file :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    sweet thanx
  • TyrTyr Join Date: 2011-07-23 Member: 111940Members
    Awesome, great progress!
  • MaGicBushMaGicBush Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10378Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1862832:date=Jul 23 2011, 04:57 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jul 23 2011, 04:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862832"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, the spawning is only half implemented at the moment, and admittedly confusing. The plan is that when spawning as an alien the camera will be put inside the egg, you'll have a semi transparent/translucent membraney texture over the screen, similar to NS1, and you can move you mouse to look around some. The glowing embryo inside the egg model, which currently can't be seen because we don't have the transparency in game yet to see through the egg, will spin around matching the your mouselook movement. Then you can choose the time you want to spawn, like maybe waiting for a marine to run by first, then spawning behind him to surprise him. Also, there will be some kind of tool tip or visual indicator to let you know when you are ready to spawn.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Makes sense, thanks for the information. I do however agree this could be bad over time as players learn to shoot at the eggs when they enter a hive, maybe make them less visible somehow at least to the marines(cloaking was in NS1).
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1862864:date=Jul 23 2011, 07:50 PM:name=MaGicBush)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaGicBush @ Jul 23 2011, 07:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862864"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Makes sense, thanks for the information. I do however agree this could be bad over time as players learn to shoot at the eggs when they enter a hive, maybe make them less visible somehow at least to the marines(cloaking was in NS1).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I always hoped the dynamic infestation would do an attempt to hide the eggs by covering a portion of the egg to blend in with the environment.

    Also had a strange infestation texture bug in tram. Like it was clipping with the floor there.

    <img src="http://i.imgur.com/i2Jb9.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
  • PlasmaPlasma Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1862789:date=Jul 24 2011, 05:02 AM:name=wacko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wacko @ Jul 24 2011, 05:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862789"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm I do not get why the macs are any slower than before they have the same move speed setup the drifters do and they are not effected by this slow down<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I noticed terribly slow pathfinding for drifters (they moved slow, or really fast for a split second and then slow again) when I played.

    The server's tickrate was awful (like 3 I think) so that may be the reason.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    Both macs and drifters have something of a history of variable speed during a game, it could well be related to the tickrate as it does seem as though they slow down later in the game when it's more busy.
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    I've now been playing the B181 for quite some hours.
    Here is a few problems I've experienced:
    - Spore is too powerful. I suggest; reducing damage, increasing adrenaline cost, increasing lifetime of spores. That will make spores more of a 'area denial' type of thing rather than a 'slaughter house' type of thing.
    - Lerk spikes do very high damage per second against buildings.
    - Pathing still leads MACs/Drifters/ARCs out of the map.
    Anyhow, good job on alot of the things you got in the build! I like it!
  • kaffaljidhmakaffaljidhma Join Date: 2011-07-14 Member: 110392Members
    There's also this <a href="http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/topics/bite_bug_build_181" target="_blank">game breaking bug</a> that's more powerful than 10 lurk spores combined.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    Oh dear.

    And there I was thinking this build didn't have a completely game breaking bug.

    Silly me.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
  • MelancorMelancor Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24415Members
    If the cysts can go through walls - and only the last one or two take damage - is't it possible some places to create a chain which leads to the front and back again through walls, thus leaving the front infestation invulnerable? That would be nasty.
    <img src="http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/9762/cysts.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members
    Isn't it that all cysts can take damage from direct fire, but only the ones at the outside will die naturally if they are cut off?
  • FloodinatorFloodinator [HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Played around 4h.
    Things that need some tweaks.
    -Flamer. It is just hard when you are fade. I killed a SG Marine and then landed 1 hit on a Flamer but then he hit me with 1 flame, so for around 6 seconds I was just a walking Fade.
    -Spores. Do to much damage but if the Flamer stays how it is now, the Spores are ok then
    -Spees Melee bug. It is silly to kill a Powernode in 4s or Blinking while Energy is recoverd! Hate those superb Beta-Players who abuse em! That ain't a feature!
    -Mac/ARC. They can got out of the map or get stucked (Marine start RT on Summit) wich will cause enormous lag!
    -Beacon. Still not implemented! It would help the Marines alot!

    +Lerk. It is really easy to handel him! But Sniper needs a better Hit-Cross or atleast a bigger one. It is hard to see if it hit the Marine.
    +Skulk is now how it should be! It plays better than NS1 skulk. Stickyness should be changed a bit, it is weird sometimes!
    +Cysts. Are much better to handel and Aliens have more reactiontime now to replace killed ones.
    +Performance. It plays really smooth now, aslong as no NPC leave the Map or get stuck.
    +Fade. Still the most Fun to play. Just Blinking all the time around. But it should do a bit more DMG vs Structures. Even 3 Fades can't take out a PG and if a Flamer jumps out it is Over.
    +Close combat now is really Fun!

    Greetings
  • MagnetoMagneto Join Date: 2010-12-22 Member: 75856Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1862832:date=Jul 23 2011, 10:57 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jul 23 2011, 10:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862832"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, the spawning is only half implemented at the moment, and admittedly confusing. The plan is that when spawning as an alien the camera will be put inside the egg, you'll have a semi transparent/translucent membraney texture over the screen, similar to NS1, and you can move you mouse to look around some. The glowing embryo inside the egg model, which currently can't be seen because we don't have the transparency in game yet to see through the egg, will spin around matching the your mouselook movement. Then you can choose the time you want to spawn, like maybe waiting for a marine to run by first, then spawning behind him to surprise him. Also, there will be some kind of tool tip or visual indicator to let you know when you are ready to spawn.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Nice idea, will be good when that's implemented but for now can we get some visual reminder or temporary automatic respawn for aliens?

    I also think it would be better to change the spectator button to something other than attack/mouse1, make it the same button that currently exits following mode, i know it's a small thing but it would be better.
  • CerebralCerebral Join Date: 2003-06-25 Member: 17689Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1863009:date=Jul 24 2011, 07:23 AM:name=Melancor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melancor @ Jul 24 2011, 07:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1863009"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the cysts can go through walls - and only the last one or two take damage - is't it possible some places to create a chain which leads to the front and back again through walls, thus leaving the front infestation invulnerable? That would be nasty.
    <img src="http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/9762/cysts.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think you're a little confused. I'm pretty sure they are all still vulnerable to damage regardless of where the end of the chain is. The difference is that killing one of the middle ones (bottom hallway in your example) wouldn't immediately destroy the entire island after it. Only the next closest one would start taking damage over time rather than all of them. In any event, it's an interesting example and I actually think it makes a cool game play dynamic myself.
  • TheLordTheLord Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16258Members
    Wow, you really need to hotfix this bite bug: <a href="http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/topics/bite_bug_build_181" target="_blank">http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/t...e_bug_build_181</a>

    I mean I did have some fun with it but it's totally overpowered :D
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    BTW- Beacon was in some earlier builds but they disabled it until they can fix the bug where the marines spawn inside walls.
  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    edited July 2011
    Good build! Some feedback:

    1) Love the new turret mechanics. Reminds me of that turret scene in Aliens. A flashlight red "reload" reminder on the commander's GUI/minimap along with a cool "ammo exhausted" sound would be nice additions.

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGE_h4jBBXc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGE_h4jBBXc</a>

    2) MACs getting stuck in stairs, outside map, and slow movement bug. It also seems they cannot go through vents now like before, same with drifters.

    3) Like that leap has been moved to Hive 2 like in NS1, and the associated speed increases. Hopefully this will encourage skulks to ambush more in the early game like NS1.

    4) MACs pop out before door opens on robo factory. They should fly out of it like the ARCs do. Probably a bug.
  • SyknikSyknik InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2064Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    I'm glad you guys are talking about the bite bug, it definitely is game breaking and needs to be fixed asap, which is why i showed the video and reported it, trying to get it known so the Devs can possibly fix it up asap.

    Besides that, I believe that the lerks spores dmg needs to be reduced and needs to effect armor again. It's silly that it just tears apart at your health.

    Fade swipe should have an energy cost reduction, same with blink.

    The lerk hitbox i'm assuming should be fixed. Lerks are the hardest class to kill right now, even with 4 shotgunners lerks still survive most of the time. Lerks are battle lerks right now and need to fill the defensive role, not be as aggressive as they are now.

    Lerk spores should be able to go further than 10m.

    Leaping should have just a bit more of an "umph" make it a bit stronger, now that it is a second hive ability, the fact that you can only leap 10-15m'ish is rediculous. (unless if double-leaping which I find should not be removed).

    Skulk stickiness should be reduced, I hate the fact that i stick to walls so easily and have a hard time getting off of them, I suppose when wall-jumping is in that it'd be a bit better but even then I think it'll be still too sticky.

    Oh, shotgun you should be able to bash with as well.

    On that note, bash dmg should be reduced as well.

    That's all I have right now, but i'm sure i'll have another post up later on with more opinions. =)
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