id prefer flares to night vision/thermal goggles. maybe an illumination round for the grenade launcher that burns for about 2mins. that way you can light up a dark room well before you enter it
<!--quoteo(post=1831530:date=Feb 12 2011, 08:43 AM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Feb 12 2011, 08:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831530"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sonar by definition produces a mental map of the surrounding area via sound. Sight does the exact same thing except with photons and the sun sends out the light waves to be reflected back into our eyes for us.
Sonar is only seeing sound.
But com'on! This is sci-fi! Seeing sounds is like, awesome! It just needs to follow the rule of cool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> i probably should have explained myself better. sonar is not seeing all sound, but certain frequencies. you wont see the shockwaves from the bullets which would look cool at first but get annoying after awhile
I just posted this to reddit: <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/fjud1/game_devs_geeking_out_and_brainstorming_on_ns2/" target="_blank">http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/fj...torming_on_ns2/</a>
Everyone comment and upvote!
Fingers crossed on getting a lot of traffic from reddit.
<!--quoteo(post=1831638:date=Feb 11 2011, 11:49 PM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ Feb 11 2011, 11:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831638"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i probably should have explained myself better. sonar is not seeing all sound, but certain frequencies. you wont see the shockwaves from the bullets which would look cool at first but get annoying after awhile<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah, yes. but you would see the gun fire since that is loud... well, maybe. Definitely not bullets. Well, maybe. Eh, it's all good. I agree seeing bullet shockwaves would be kinda annoying after a while.
<!--quoteo(post=1831513:date=Feb 11 2011, 08:52 PM:name=hyperrift)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hyperrift @ Feb 11 2011, 08:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Conceptual problem with "sonar": Any sound wave that was used for detection would be easily detectable by marines, thus giving away the alien's position.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1831513:date=Feb 12 2011, 07:52 AM:name=hyperrift)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hyperrift @ Feb 12 2011, 07:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Conceptual problem with "sonar": Any sound wave that was used for detection would be easily detectable by marines, thus giving away the alien's position.
If used with purely line of sight feedback, it is not worth the trade off of being detected.
If it provided some sort of degrading x-ray vision, like an extremely limited x-ray, then it might be worth the risk of being detected. Example from that one daredevil movie: (only shot I could find) <a href="http://www.awn.com/files/imagepicker/1/houdini01_daredevil_shadoww.jpg" target="_blank">Example of echo-location vision</a>
That could arguably be a gameplay balance-point, with some sort of Marine equipment to detect alien echo-location.
Anyway, point being that if it is just LOS, sonar is dumb and just visual flair.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> if the frequency is out of the human hearing range then marines wont hear it. animals that use sonar dont walk around screaming, they use high pitched frequencies that we cant hear.
detection shouldnt be a problem, unless the commander can pick it up with the observatory
<!--quoteo(post=1831642:date=Feb 12 2011, 02:54 PM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Feb 12 2011, 02:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just posted this to reddit: <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/fjud1/game_devs_geeking_out_and_brainstorming_on_ns2/" target="_blank">http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/fj...torming_on_ns2/</a>
Everyone comment and upvote!
Fingers crossed on getting a lot of traffic from reddit.
Ah, yes. but you would see the gun fire since that is loud... well, maybe. Definitely not bullets. Well, maybe. Eh, it's all good. I agree seeing bullet shockwaves would be kinda annoying after a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> frequency does not equal volume. even if its loud, if its not hte right frequency it wont be picked up by the aliens sonar
I dont know if it has been said.. but you could make another energy bar type thing for the aliens. And then when power is off, or dark in vents, they could turn on the orange/yellow vision. And it could last for like 30 seconds or something, and then have to wait for recharge?
I also like the idea of changing your view based on the surrounding lighting. You car changes lights depending on how dark it is, make it the same for an alien? :]
<!--quoteo(post=1831513:date=Feb 11 2011, 04:52 PM:name=hyperrift)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hyperrift @ Feb 11 2011, 04:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyway, point being that if it is just LOS, sonar is dumb and just visual flair.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmmm.. i could see the red/orange outlining effect being great for objects you can directly see (LOS) and then maybe the green/shockwave type look giving you a sound-based map of the surrounding area within a certain distance (AOE), allowing you to effectively see through walls, with degrading quality/intensity based on distance or number of objects it passes through. Although, calculating all of this might be a bit heavy...
also, aliens are already a little OP, it seems. Not drastically, but skulks alone do some insane damage. Plus, give them the advantage of darkness. then give the advantage of being able to SEE in the dark. I think there definitely needs to be some kind of trade off (as much as I want to say "oh, that looks awesome, leave it!"; it could just make things pretty imbalanced if it's not tweaked right)
Aliens vision should be similar to animals' night vision and it could be auto whenever you enter a dark area with a delay for adjusting the eyes, also the negativity of alien vision shouldn't surpass it's advantage as stealth and darkness are aliens main advantages marines needs light and tactics and later effect could be used for marines sonar view which makes more sense also sonar view should detect moving stealth aliens if balanced right those visions would be great addition to the game :)
1:39 needs whit enoise filter and more refracted, shakey outlines. 6:11 use that for marine waypoint path (in blue naturaly)!
can you modify the occlusion culling to get a better edge detect? especially for corners, as it could look like theres a passage if there is no "wire" from the edge for to long.
can you modify it to a more propper heatvision where the area is kinda blueish, but living and working things redish-orange?
<!--quoteo(post=1831645:date=Feb 11 2011, 11:56 PM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ Feb 11 2011, 11:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831645"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->frequency does not equal volume. even if its loud, if its not hte right frequency it wont be picked up by the aliens sonar<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is correct. Furthermore, we are both right. Both intensity and frequency are required.
I never said frequency equals intensity, and I didn't imply frequency was unnecessary. I don't know where you're getting that.
no marine heatvision, this would totaly defeat the whole reason of having darkness by destroying power nodes, heck , you would not even need to use it in darkness , because it totaly picks up aliens even in brightness, no matter how well they try to hide. aliens are sneaky, hidey ambushers, how should that work if peoples keep demanding super sonar radar heat vision and other ubermensch buffs for marines. marines are stuck to their flashlights/flares/observatory , there cant be some super night vision target aquisition whatever stuff, that would make the whole darkness /hidey in the shadows/ stick to the ceiling looking like a lamp/ thing pointless
^ If you want people to read what you write, be clear and concise. And neat. I saw that, and I didn't want to read it. You may have had a very compelling argument about <b>something</b>, but I didn't read it.
I think alien vision should have two modes: <b>nightvision</b> and <b>dayvision</b>, which will each be very distinct, visually. Dayvision can just be regular human vision. But <b>rather than</b> switch <u>on and off</u> (whether automatically or through a flashlight toggle), instead <i>the two visions will blend with each other automatically</i> with responses to changes in the environment. Strong lighting - mostly dayvision; a lot of darkness - mostly nightvision; in between - a more equal combination. What it really translates to is, with less and less lighting, the nightvision visual effect becomes more and more pronounced. What this means is, aliens will be able to see well at any level of lighting, and aliens will always have at least some 'foreign' slightly colour-corrected vision, which I think will be very cool. I think this implementation may be what Cory was asking for / hinting at in the video.
OMG I love the one at 5:50!!!! That should be SOMETHING in game :)! Only instead of another sweep coming in to erase it just make it fade back to normal till the next sweep :P
<!--quoteo(post=1831770:date=Feb 12 2011, 07:33 PM:name=Supernorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Supernorn @ Feb 12 2011, 07:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831770"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There was a little exclusive update on NS2's facebook page, not sure if you guys noticed. The final alien vision mode:
I think you should add a super-dark, saturated blue or purple into the blackest blacks on the alien view mode. It currently looks too mechanical, with only the warm colors. Like how in paintings it's always best to avoid black, and instead use really dark, super-saturated colors.
I don't know how hard it would be, but if you could detect the "general direction of motion" or tangent for the hard yellow lines, you could deviate it's position across the normal using some sort of sine or noise (or other deterministic as to prevent shimmering) function to make it more "organic looking".
I would like to see what happens if they try using their outline detection algorithm to cast tiny lines light on hard geometry edges (instead of overlaying an outline around them).
It does look good but I'm not happy with the color that was picked. The alien theme has always been brown-orange-yellowish and maybe some dark matte green(the symbiont on their bodies) and the bright shiny green doesn't fit into the concept imo. Furthermore the DI is also green and can't be seen well with this version of alien vision
I love the way this video was done... even down to showing the coding in real time and changing things around with the devs all watching... its like we were all sitting there together seeing it for the first time [with the devs]
It does look cool but I feel like that effect fits better in Splinter Cell than with the aliens, it doesn't seem very organic. I still prefer the idea of a subtler night vision that doesn't need to be toggled, and would work for the alien comm as well.
I'm OK with it but I would like them to try other things too. It's just so much flat green. I want something that makes you feel like a creepy alien sneaking around looking for prey. This alien view should be pretty effective though so I'll wait until I've tried it out.
Comments
<!--quoteo(post=1831530:date=Feb 12 2011, 08:43 AM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Feb 12 2011, 08:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831530"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sonar by definition produces a mental map of the surrounding area via sound. Sight does the exact same thing except with photons and the sun sends out the light waves to be reflected back into our eyes for us.
Sonar is only seeing sound.
But com'on! This is sci-fi! Seeing sounds is like, awesome! It just needs to follow the rule of cool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i probably should have explained myself better. sonar is not seeing all sound, but certain frequencies. you wont see the shockwaves from the bullets which would look cool at first but get annoying after awhile
Everyone comment and upvote!
Fingers crossed on getting a lot of traffic from reddit.
<!--quoteo(post=1831638:date=Feb 11 2011, 11:49 PM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ Feb 11 2011, 11:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831638"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i probably should have explained myself better. sonar is not seeing all sound, but certain frequencies. you wont see the shockwaves from the bullets which would look cool at first but get annoying after awhile<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, yes. but you would see the gun fire since that is loud... well, maybe. Definitely not bullets. Well, maybe. Eh, it's all good. I agree seeing bullet shockwaves would be kinda annoying after a while.
Any sound wave that was used for detection would be easily detectable by marines, thus giving away the alien's position.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nanit-
Er...
Bacteria?
Any sound wave that was used for detection would be easily detectable by marines, thus giving away the alien's position.
If used with purely line of sight feedback, it is not worth the trade off of being detected.
If it provided some sort of degrading x-ray vision, like an extremely limited x-ray, then it might be worth the risk of being detected.
Example from that one daredevil movie: (only shot I could find) <a href="http://www.awn.com/files/imagepicker/1/houdini01_daredevil_shadoww.jpg" target="_blank">Example of echo-location vision</a>
That could arguably be a gameplay balance-point, with some sort of Marine equipment to detect alien echo-location.
Anyway, point being that if it is just LOS, sonar is dumb and just visual flair.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if the frequency is out of the human hearing range then marines wont hear it. animals that use sonar dont walk around screaming, they use high pitched frequencies that we cant hear.
detection shouldnt be a problem, unless the commander can pick it up with the observatory
<!--quoteo(post=1831642:date=Feb 12 2011, 02:54 PM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Feb 12 2011, 02:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just posted this to reddit: <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/fjud1/game_devs_geeking_out_and_brainstorming_on_ns2/" target="_blank">http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/fj...torming_on_ns2/</a>
Everyone comment and upvote!
Fingers crossed on getting a lot of traffic from reddit.
Ah, yes. but you would see the gun fire since that is loud... well, maybe. Definitely not bullets. Well, maybe. Eh, it's all good. I agree seeing bullet shockwaves would be kinda annoying after a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
frequency does not equal volume. even if its loud, if its not hte right frequency it wont be picked up by the aliens sonar
I also like the idea of changing your view based on the surrounding lighting. You car changes lights depending on how dark it is, make it the same for an alien? :]
hmmm.. i could see the red/orange outlining effect being great for objects you can directly see (LOS) and then maybe the green/shockwave type look giving you a sound-based map of the surrounding area within a certain distance (AOE), allowing you to effectively see through walls, with degrading quality/intensity based on distance or number of objects it passes through. Although, calculating all of this might be a bit heavy...
also, aliens are already a little OP, it seems. Not drastically, but skulks alone do some insane damage. Plus, give them the advantage of darkness. then give the advantage of being able to SEE in the dark. I think there definitely needs to be some kind of trade off (as much as I want to say "oh, that looks awesome, leave it!"; it could just make things pretty imbalanced if it's not tweaked right)
6:11 use that for marine waypoint path (in blue naturaly)!
can you modify the occlusion culling to get a better edge detect?
especially for corners, as it could look like theres a passage if there is no "wire" from the edge for to long.
can you modify it to a more propper heatvision where the area is kinda blueish, but living and working things redish-orange?
This is correct. Furthermore, we are both right. Both intensity and frequency are required.
I never said frequency equals intensity, and I didn't imply frequency was unnecessary. I don't know where you're getting that.
I really hope we provided some inspiration, and that our debate wasn't in vain.
aliens are sneaky, hidey ambushers, how should that work if peoples keep demanding super sonar radar heat vision and other ubermensch buffs for marines.
marines are stuck to their flashlights/flares/observatory , there cant be some super night vision target aquisition whatever stuff, that would make the whole darkness /hidey in the shadows/ stick to the ceiling looking like a lamp/ thing pointless
careful with your wishes and what you ask for
I think alien vision should have two modes: <b>nightvision</b> and <b>dayvision</b>, which will each be very distinct, visually. Dayvision can just be regular human vision.
But <b>rather than</b> switch <u>on and off</u> (whether automatically or through a flashlight toggle), instead <i>the two visions will blend with each other automatically</i> with responses to changes in the environment.
Strong lighting - mostly dayvision; a lot of darkness - mostly nightvision; in between - a more equal combination.
What it really translates to is, with less and less lighting, the nightvision visual effect becomes more and more pronounced.
What this means is, aliens will be able to see well at any level of lighting, and aliens will always have at least some 'foreign' slightly colour-corrected vision, which I think will be very cool.
I think this implementation may be what Cory was asking for / hinting at in the video.
I think we have a problem here.....
<img src="http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/181537_10150105224768105_87948998104_6513099_7863045_n.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/181537_10150105224768105_87948998104_6513099_7863045_n.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
O M G imagine red bright shining marines :)
reminds me of the alien vision from alien versus predator
Very ugly for me.