schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
lol Max programs in a new features in sub 10 seconds :)
Cory was spot on how he was saying that the effect should be an automatic and non distracting transition as you move in and out of dark and light areas. The darker it gets the more night vision you get - just as your eyes would adjust to brightness and darkness - but in a cool alien way :)
Also i'm 100% with Cory to have scanner sweep do that effect in blue!!! :)
I also love hearing the passion you guys have for the game you're making. Especially Charlie, he sounded like a kid on his first Christmas morning haha.
I agree it should be a constant effect. Like a slight alien-ish color filter at all times that becomes more pronounced in the dark. Not just to see marines either, aliens need to be able to see vents and things just as well in the dark as they can in the light. This also goes for the alien commander.
First, people with epileptic issues may have a problem with the strobe effects. Not to mention, that once the novelty wears off, I can see it become irritating quickly (my solution for this in the next point). Also, it may result in a frame rate loss (or perhaps gain?) for some people (especially those on the lower end of the specs required to play). Plus, due to some optimisations that are still required in the graphics department of the game, my concern for performance is raised.
It does remind me of the Sonic-Vision that was in the last Batman movie.
Secondly, I think, as the video proves, it is easy to create a variety of vision modes in a few seconds, thus can we have one mode that is the constant type - the orange glow, and the second, the pulsing version.
So vision modes would be:
0 - Off 1 - Thermal (Orange) 2 - Pulse (Green)
3, If Marines get a vision mode, I do not think thermal (Overpowered) or night-vision (Overdone, though appropriate) would be the best choices. Perhaps a Blue (Sonic?) or Infrared (Black and White) enhancement would be a bit more innovative.
Though, if they do get night-vision, I hope that you also make it so that it has an appropriate amount of grain. Further, it should also blind marines (screen go white or high contrast) if they venture into a bright lit area or stare into a bright light source - such as a thingy exploding from the Alien Comm (Those flying builder units that look like Slaters.. I forget their name at the moment).
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
I think the sonar type effect should be reserved for the blue marine scanner sweep, whereas it outlines the level geometry and looks like its "scanning" the room. I liked the NS1 solution for the alien flashlight, it was simple and effective. This time you could probably do the same thing except make it so it fades out more when its in a bright room.
You HAVE to use that slow pulse as a scanner sweep effect.
Get rid of the trailing plane and have it fade out instead, so it comes in with a plane expanding over the environment highlighting all the edges and enemies, then it fades out over time to normal view mode.
That would totally be the best thing ever.
Alternatively give aliens that ability as a flashlight, but rather than being toggleable, they can press F to send out a ping at the cost of some energy, or possibly just on a cooldown which rechargest faster on DI or something. That would solve the batman arkham asylum problem.
I like the sonar pulses best! Perhaps instead of having it be automatically repeating in time, you could have it so that tapping 'F' sends out a single pulse.
For a downside, I think it would be cool if the yellow outlines do a sort of blurring or burn in effect. Take the lit pixels from one frame, blur it and re-add it into the next frame.
If this was sonar based vision, the blur would represent the fact that a sonar return wouldn't be continuous and there is a bit of fuzziness when detecting how something is moving between pulses.
But...is implementing this pulse effect as easy as that when you don't want it to be in view direction? Would make more sense for a scanner...the pulse has another source than the skulk's mouth ^^
<!--quoteo(post=1831295:date=Feb 11 2011, 04:30 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Feb 11 2011, 04:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831295"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the sonar type effect should be reserved for the blue marine scanner sweep, whereas it outlines the level geometry and looks like its "scanning" the room. I liked the NS1 solution for the alien flashlight, it was simple and effective. This time you could probably do the same thing except make it so it fades out more when its in a bright room.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ns1 flashlight was most simple, and effective, totally agree! although I must say we need the flashlight to be controlled by the player, I preferred to always run with my flashlight making it easy to always spot a marine in the middle of any type of environment. that's what made aliens special, you can spot marine quickly without even looking in room even with light, so I must say we need to control this ability as we did in ns1.
Aliens just need to see marines highlighted, and see marines unites, in this case too much flicking or bright moving lights during combat would only become annoying next to confusing.
OWEsome video! It really was fun just to watch you guys working on something cool in real time. I've never seen anything like it before, and I've never seen effects like these in an FPS, either.
My thoughts on the matter: The first effect looks great. If it looks good visually and you strike the right "balance" (to keep players from using it all the time) then I think it will work. Two possible penalties for using it in the light could be 1) crazy bright like night vision goggles 2) just can't tell it's light at all, so in order to make sure you're hidden, you have to come out of flashlight mode
If you do decide to go with a sonar for aliens, I'd like to see the sonar be activated, not toggled. Hit the button, and a ping goes out, with a cooldown of a couple seconds. I'd also like to see it fade out instead of a "second wave" making it disappear.
However, I'm more for aliens being visual or heat-based in their alternate vision. The marine ping is a lot like a sonar already, so having a pulse effect on both teams would be kind of bland. Marines are heavily based on listening for ambushes, which could be tied to a "sonar" scanner sweep, as well as the sheer volume of voice commands (compared to an alien chuckle). Marines have a pretty good audial theme going on, imo. On the other hand, their seeing in the dark is very weak, relying on powered lights or small flashlights.
Aliens, on the other hand, should be very visual. They see in the dark, and watch from the shadows in ambush. Predator Vision definitely fits them.
Would love to see a secondary function on the Obs that disrupted alien "night vision" here. Throwing up fake geometry, etc. to force an even playing field for a few seconds. Possibly automatic, not manual.
I.E. Alien in dark room, using "nightvision", scanner disruption pulse activates, aliens vision becomes a mass of lines until it fades to no nightvision for 5 or 10 seconds, then re-enables itself with no action from the player.
Sort of a flashbang that only affects aliens in nightvision mode.
If this was sort of implemented for aliens, would it look good if the marines pulsed? instead of a pulse coming from the alien you know.. like the aliens pick up on the heart beats or somethng,
<!--quoteo(post=1831321:date=Feb 10 2011, 10:25 PM:name=xVisions)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xVisions @ Feb 10 2011, 10:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831321"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If this was sort of implemented for aliens, would it look good if the marines pulsed? instead of a pulse coming from the alien you know.. like the aliens pick up on the heart beats or somethng,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, that would be interesting. Marines and Buildings have heat signatures, and when Marines move, they emit these pulses which will highlight the map geometry.
Aliens can sense vibrations and have thermal vision <3
Edit: Oh and on a side note, wouldn't it be cool if Kharaa eyes <b><i>glowed</i></b> when they are using this vision mode? It helps the Marines as well, with those creepy glowing eyes in the dark...
I personally would like to see it environmentally situational so aliens don't just leave it on all the time like in ns1. So if aliens are in a lighted area the vision amplifies causing a mild blindness. This could also be caused by a direct well aimed flashlight in the face. This would make getting the power node fix that more important.
What I'm loving is that when I see that effect in-game (eventually) I'll be reminded of the exact moment it was conceived and notice the progression that was made. The last variation of it would be a fantastic scan effect for marines, given some extra visual tweaks.
<!--quoteo(post=1831265:date=Feb 10 2011, 08:31 PM:name=SatanLovesYOu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SatanLovesYOu @ Feb 10 2011, 08:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1831265"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think making way points work with this system would be great.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was just going to suggest this. I think it would be really neat if the commander set a waypoint and the alien vision had some sort of effect similar to what was seen at 5:10, but perhaps maybe not as blaring, because that could get annoying.
Or maybe implement a gentle blue one for a marine right when he spawns, to sort of imply their visor / HUD starting up and analyzing the immediate area.
Comments
What about that pulsating effect appearing that makes a path to your hive when its under attack?
It would be a huge visual cue that you need to be defending your hive :)
Or even show it when you're on your own and a group of aliens elsewhere are under attack as a sort of 'help your friends' cue.
Cory was spot on how he was saying that the effect should be an automatic and non distracting transition as you move in and out of dark and light areas. The darker it gets the more night vision you get - just as your eyes would adjust to brightness and darkness - but in a cool alien way :)
Also i'm 100% with Cory to have scanner sweep do that effect in blue!!! :)
thanks for the video guys, so exciting :)
That's really cool effect, I can see it being used a lot!
:v
I also love hearing the passion you guys have for the game you're making. Especially Charlie, he sounded like a kid on his first Christmas morning haha.
First, people with epileptic issues may have a problem with the strobe effects. Not to mention, that once the novelty wears off, I can see it become irritating quickly (my solution for this in the next point). Also, it may result in a frame rate loss (or perhaps gain?) for some people (especially those on the lower end of the specs required to play). Plus, due to some optimisations that are still required in the graphics department of the game, my concern for performance is raised.
It does remind me of the Sonic-Vision that was in the last Batman movie.
Secondly, I think, as the video proves, it is easy to create a variety of vision modes in a few seconds, thus can we have one mode that is the constant type - the orange glow, and the second, the pulsing version.
So vision modes would be:
0 - Off
1 - Thermal (Orange)
2 - Pulse (Green)
3, If Marines get a vision mode, I do not think thermal (Overpowered) or night-vision (Overdone, though appropriate) would be the best choices. Perhaps a Blue (Sonic?) or Infrared (Black and White) enhancement would be a bit more innovative.
Though, if they do get night-vision, I hope that you also make it so that it has an appropriate amount of grain. Further, it should also blind marines (screen go white or high contrast) if they venture into a bright lit area or stare into a bright light source - such as a thingy exploding from the Alien Comm (Those flying builder units that look like Slaters.. I forget their name at the moment).
Get rid of the trailing plane and have it fade out instead, so it comes in with a plane expanding over the environment highlighting all the edges and enemies, then it fades out over time to normal view mode.
That would totally be the best thing ever.
Alternatively give aliens that ability as a flashlight, but rather than being toggleable, they can press F to send out a ping at the cost of some energy, or possibly just on a cooldown which rechargest faster on DI or something. That would solve the batman arkham asylum problem.
Thanks for sharing that! Can obviously tell the group is excited. Have fun experimenting and being creative with this!
Take the lit pixels from one frame, blur it and re-add it into the next frame.
If this was sonar based vision, the blur would represent the fact that a sonar return wouldn't be continuous and there is a bit of fuzziness when detecting how something is moving between pulses.
Have alien flashlight key
Takes adrenaline to use
Sends out a pulse (lights stuff up)
Vision slowly fades back to normal within about 10 seconds.
Done.
ns1 flashlight was most simple, and effective, totally agree! although I must say we need the flashlight to be controlled by the player, I preferred to always run with my flashlight making it easy to always spot a marine in the middle of any type of environment. that's what made aliens special, you can spot marine quickly without even looking in room even with light, so I must say we need to control this ability as we did in ns1.
Aliens just need to see marines highlighted, and see marines unites, in this case too much flicking or bright moving lights during combat would only become annoying next to confusing.
My thoughts on the matter:
The first effect looks great. If it looks good visually and you strike the right "balance" (to keep players from using it all the time) then I think it will work. Two possible penalties for using it in the light could be
1) crazy bright like night vision goggles
2) just can't tell it's light at all, so in order to make sure you're hidden, you have to come out of flashlight mode
If you do decide to go with a sonar for aliens, I'd like to see the sonar be activated, not toggled. Hit the button, and a ping goes out, with a cooldown of a couple seconds. I'd also like to see it fade out instead of a "second wave" making it disappear.
However, I'm more for aliens being visual or heat-based in their alternate vision. The marine ping is a lot like a sonar already, so having a pulse effect on both teams would be kind of bland.
Marines are heavily based on listening for ambushes, which could be tied to a "sonar" scanner sweep, as well as the sheer volume of voice commands (compared to an alien chuckle). Marines have a pretty good audial theme going on, imo. On the other hand, their seeing in the dark is very weak, relying on powered lights or small flashlights.
Aliens, on the other hand, should be very visual. They see in the dark, and watch from the shadows in ambush. Predator Vision definitely fits them.
I.E. Alien in dark room, using "nightvision", scanner disruption pulse activates, aliens vision becomes a mass of lines until it fades to no nightvision for 5 or 10 seconds, then re-enables itself with no action from the player.
Sort of a flashbang that only affects aliens in nightvision mode.
Yeah, that would be interesting. Marines and Buildings have heat signatures, and when Marines move, they emit these pulses which will highlight the map geometry.
Aliens can sense vibrations and have thermal vision <3
Edit: Oh and on a side note, wouldn't it be cool if Kharaa eyes <b><i>glowed</i></b> when they are using this vision mode? It helps the Marines as well, with those creepy glowing eyes in the dark...
I was just going to suggest this. I think it would be really neat if the commander set a waypoint and the alien vision had some sort of effect similar to what was seen at 5:10, but perhaps maybe not as blaring, because that could get annoying.
Or maybe implement a gentle blue one for a marine right when he spawns, to sort of imply their visor / HUD starting up and analyzing the immediate area.