<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm afraid we'll need glasses after playing 2 hours NS2 with robb's noise-effect, even though it looks cool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not like this will have a source engine concussion effect where everything leaves a ghost imprint when its active... It's a mock up damnit. Made with a graphic editor, not the actual game engine. In-game it would look and work fundamentally different.
<!--quoteo(post=1832151:date=Feb 14 2011, 06:40 PM:name=countbasie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (countbasie @ Feb 14 2011, 06:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Edit: And, why should aliens and animals in general not have brillant eyes? Are only humans allowed to see sharp...?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's brilliant in your oppinion? An eagle is able to spot a damn bunny from what? 200 meters traveling in the sky? And this is night vision, in other words either a different spectrum or totally different peripheral organs (snakes "smell" by picking up molecules and smearing it over their palate, for example).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you cant make out details in the distance, wih running leap you would propell youself into the unknown, or miss that vent you try to hit in that blurry mess<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> i forgot to mention that only the outer area is blurred, if you would aim down the corridor to the left it would be not as blurred - again, distances are crapped up because of how the filters work.
Those "scan" effects in the video could be used in some very nice ways.
Imagine if you are playing skulk. You activate alien vision. But to end up seeing even more then normal, you would need to make some sort of noise (barking or whatever a skulk does) which would create this sonar like effect going through the room (once per roar). Basically you give your opponent a small advantage, because he can hear you, but you yourself get a very good overview of what is inside the (dark) room.
It would be somewhat similar to the sonar bats use(just as a different kind of sound).
On the marine side, imagine you are inside a dark room, and all the sudden you hear some Khaara making noises, trying to find you. That would be quite an experience.
If you don't decide to make noises alien vision would work still, but not as effective. Maybe alien vision would only allow you to see living things very clearly (as some heat signature) but not your surroundings. Using sonar would nullify that for a short amount of time while giving your opponent the advantage of being aware that you are somewhere close.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's some quick and dirty footage showing some cool ideas for an alien vision mode. This would allow the aliens to excel in the dark after they cut the power.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ripley: They cut the power. Hudson: What do you mean, "*They* cut the power"? How could they cut the power, man? They're animals!
God...that movie (and Jurassic Park) had some of the most memorable quotes ever. Can't wait for the update..."Hold on to your butts..."
<!--quoteo(post=1832160:date=Feb 14 2011, 06:31 PM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Feb 14 2011, 06:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832160"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not like this will have a source engine concussion effect where everything leaves a ghost imprint when its active... It's a mock up damnit. Made with a graphic editor, not the actual game engine. In-game it would look and work fundamentally different.
What's brilliant in your oppinion? An eagle is able to spot a damn bunny from what? 200 meters traveling in the sky? And this is night vision, in other words either a different spectrum or totally different peripheral organs (snakes "smell" by picking up molecules and smearing it over their palate, for example).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't care how their organs work, I only care about the visual multiplayer-experience in a FPS. The advantages for an animal have to be translated to human vision, however their vision works. Otherwise we will not have an advantage of it. I didn't want to offend you, I am expressing an opinion. But I am sorry, I will never ask for sharp edges in a nightvision again.
Edit: It's not like I didn't like your idea; maybe it looks cool in a 3d-engine; but maybe not.
on their scanners the scan came out ward from the scanner position much like that effect but in 3d.
for alians maybe you can hit a button once and it scans the area and shows marines in the dark? tho has some kind of bad effect for the alians so they dont use it all the time.. for example.. takes away all the aliens energy
<!--quoteo(post=1832283:date=Feb 15 2011, 06:53 AM:name=PseudoKnight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PseudoKnight @ Feb 15 2011, 06:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832283"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I want to remind UWE to avoid red and green as functional contrasts so that it's more accessible to the color blind.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I forgot bout that, are they affected by my mocks as well? I don't know if yellow/pinkish is in their range.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Motion Tracking idea came from the movie ALIANS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know what language that is, but it was named Ali<u>e</u>n(s) even in german.
Looking at the video again i wonder why they had to film the monitor. a good screen capper can do that and even allows for a better quality so you could actually see something.
<!--quoteo(post=1832420:date=Feb 15 2011, 07:51 PM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Feb 15 2011, 07:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832420"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Looking at the video again i wonder why they had to film the monitor. a good screen capper can do that and even allows for a better quality so you could actually see something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it was nice to see the collaboration going on in the office, and hear their opinions as things were changed on the screen. Everything in-office is really good viewing material in my opinion, nice to see the inside of a game studio.
<!--quoteo(post=1832342:date=Feb 15 2011, 07:44 AM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Feb 15 2011, 07:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832342"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I forgot bout that, are they affected by my mocks as well? I don't know if yellow/pinkish is in their range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm red/green colorblind, RobB. I wouldn't think anyone with my type of colorblindess would have issues seeing anything in your mockup. I'm assuming all the structures appear as a dark green -- they look brown to me. I can see the bright green highlights on all the edges. Hive appears to be a bright red-pink. Fade arms are a dark red-purple color.
For me, very dark greens appear brown, black, or grey depending on the size of the color patch and the lighting. Dark reds are also sometimes difficult for me to discern. Pinks sometimes appear grey depending on what background color it's against. I mentioned in the following post about lighting/atmospheric effects and how I perceive them. There's a link to a colorblindess test there too, haha. <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=112623" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=112623</a>
The way everything was colored in the nightvision test video, I don't believe anyone with any type of colorblindness (maybe those that are monochromatic maybe) would have trouble using it. Even if you turned one of Max's tests into completely greyscale, you would still be able to discern structures and edges due to the high contrast.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know what language that is, but it was named Ali<u>e</u>n(s) even in german.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm with you there. Don't disgrace one of my favorite movies! j/k
<!--quoteo(post=1832445:date=Feb 16 2011, 06:09 AM:name=Josh86)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh86 @ Feb 16 2011, 06:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832445"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm red/green colorblind, RobB. I wouldn't think anyone with my type of colorblindess would have issues seeing anything in your mockup. I'm assuming all the structures appear as a dark green -- they look brown to me. I can see the bright green highlights on all the edges. Hive appears to be a bright red-pink. Fade arms are a dark red-purple color.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
in fact the mockup is yellow brownish, not green, and the hive is purplish red and the fade arms aswell..
theirs no way to know if you color blind unless you see one color as 2 different colors sometimes..
if i thought blue was green my whole life.. how would i know im seeing a different color then anyone else?
the word "green" and "blue" are just labels.. if i see different color consistently under that label.. theirs no way to know if I am actually seeing the same color as everyone else.
<!--quoteo(post=1832652:date=Feb 16 2011, 04:29 PM:name=ZupE891)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZupE891 @ Feb 16 2011, 04:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832652"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->theirs no way to know if you color blind unless you see one color as 2 different colors sometimes..
if i thought blue was green my whole life.. how would i know im seeing a different color then anyone else?
the word "green" and "blue" are just labels.. if i see different color consistently under that label.. theirs no way to know if I am actually seeing the same color as everyone else.
-color theory by zupe<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually the only way for this to work is if your whole color spectrum was shifted.. cant just switch "green" and "blue".. because on the color spectrum the blue would now be next to yellow.. and between yellow and blue there would be green again..
but anyway... how would you know your color spectrum wasnt shifted down 1 from everyone elses color spectrum?
---edit---
actually it couldn't be shifted down just 1 color.. it would have to be shifted down enough so the primary colors are still the primary colors under their labels "yellow" "blue" and "red" so blue would have to be shifted enough to be in place of red or yellow. if that where to happen.. there is no way of telling if your actually seeing the right colors..
anyway.. this convo with myself was nice.. thanks guys.. prob way over your heads.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if i thought blue was green my whole life.. how would i know im seeing a different color then anyone else?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If i understand you right... Its absurd(because it doesnt work like that), but still it wouldnt matter... You learned this is red this is blue this is green etc... So whatever colors you might see, you and everyone else can name and see "blue" as "blue" etc...
Colorblindness is a little different. Look how we see objects, then add some frak'd* up receptors in someones eye:
now its like 1 color** is filtered out. (The guy could tell you this is blue that is yellow - but he cant say if something is red or green... its like he sees more with brightness, so very bright is yellow - and everything else that doesnt have much blue in it is color X - if a red and green color with close or same brightness is next to eachother he only sees one color X - and thats how you find out that you have a partial colorblindness)
*badword filters love BSG ** or more, or all colors (there are a few different types of colorblindness... so this sample and test images dont speak/work for all cases)
edit: changed the picture... harimau was right but i think it works better with white background
Also, it's a philosophical question. If I were to look through your eyes, would I see the same colours? Is your blue, your red, your green the same as my blue, red and green? Irrelevant, but nevertheless... Personally, I think my colour spectrum is the right way to go and everyone else, if they are different, should adopt.
I realize this is a fairly old topic now, but I finally started up NS2 again recently after seeing all the cool new updates. The game is really looking awesome. Decided to play alien, got into a pretty long match, did some fading for the first time, was great.
Anyhow, more topic related, I pretty much had the alien "flashlight" on the entire time while playing. For me it just made everything easier to see. To be able to get rid of all the detail from the environment and have it one color, and any structure or player orange just made it so easy to see compared to with the flashlight off. It does look really cool though.
I wonder more what it might be like if it was more thermal/heat vision based (the flamethrower would come into huge play here and really screw with aliens I think) or a "creature vision". What I mean by creature vision is it would only allow aliens to see living lifeforms when activated. So all the aliens structures and players, maybe a subtle indication of infestation too.
Just some of my thoughts after playing aliens with the flashlight on for about 30 minutes nonstop :)
Comments
It's not like this will have a source engine concussion effect where everything leaves a ghost imprint when its active...
It's a mock up damnit. Made with a graphic editor, not the actual game engine. In-game it would look and work fundamentally different.
<!--quoteo(post=1832151:date=Feb 14 2011, 06:40 PM:name=countbasie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (countbasie @ Feb 14 2011, 06:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1832151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Edit: And, why should aliens and animals in general not have brillant eyes? Are only humans allowed to see sharp...?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's brilliant in your oppinion? An eagle is able to spot a damn bunny from what? 200 meters traveling in the sky?
And this is night vision, in other words either a different spectrum or totally different peripheral organs (snakes "smell" by picking up molecules and smearing it over their palate, for example).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you cant make out details in the distance, wih running leap you would propell youself into the unknown, or miss that vent you try to hit in that blurry mess<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i forgot to mention that only the outer area is blurred, if you would aim down the corridor to the left it would be not as blurred - again, distances are crapped up because of how the filters work.
Imagine if you are playing skulk. You activate alien vision. But to end up seeing even more then normal, you would need to make some sort of noise (barking or whatever a skulk does) which would create this sonar like effect going through the room (once per roar).
Basically you give your opponent a small advantage, because he can hear you, but you yourself get a very good overview of what is inside the (dark) room.
It would be somewhat similar to the sonar bats use(just as a different kind of sound).
On the marine side, imagine you are inside a dark room, and all the sudden you hear some Khaara making noises, trying to find you. That would be quite an experience.
If you don't decide to make noises alien vision would work still, but not as effective.
Maybe alien vision would only allow you to see living things very clearly (as some heat signature) but not your surroundings. Using sonar would nullify that for a short amount of time while giving your opponent the advantage of being aware that you are somewhere close.
Ripley: They cut the power.
Hudson: What do you mean, "*They* cut the power"? How could they cut the power, man? They're animals!
God...that movie (and Jurassic Park) had some of the most memorable quotes ever. Can't wait for the update..."Hold on to your butts..."
It's a mock up damnit. Made with a graphic editor, not the actual game engine. In-game it would look and work fundamentally different.
What's brilliant in your oppinion? An eagle is able to spot a damn bunny from what? 200 meters traveling in the sky?
And this is night vision, in other words either a different spectrum or totally different peripheral organs (snakes "smell" by picking up molecules and smearing it over their palate, for example).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't care how their organs work, I only care about the visual multiplayer-experience in a FPS. The advantages for an animal have to be translated to human vision, however their vision works. Otherwise we will not have an advantage of it. I didn't want to offend you, I am expressing an opinion.
But I am sorry, I will never ask for sharp edges in a nightvision again.
Edit: It's not like I didn't like your idea; maybe it looks cool in a 3d-engine; but maybe not.
Effect looks sa-weeeeet!
Motion Tracking idea came from the movie ALIANS.
on their scanners the scan came out ward from the scanner position much like that effect but in 3d.
for alians maybe you can hit a button once and it scans the area and shows marines in the dark? tho has some kind of bad effect for the alians so they dont use it all the time.. for example.. takes away all the aliens energy
I forgot bout that, are they affected by my mocks as well? I don't know if yellow/pinkish is in their range.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Motion Tracking idea came from the movie ALIANS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know what language that is, but it was named Ali<u>e</u>n(s) even in german.
I think it was nice to see the collaboration going on in the office, and hear their opinions as things were changed on the screen. Everything in-office is really good viewing material in my opinion, nice to see the inside of a game studio.
I'm red/green colorblind, RobB. I wouldn't think anyone with my type of colorblindess would have issues seeing anything in your mockup. I'm assuming all the structures appear as a dark green -- they look brown to me. I can see the bright green highlights on all the edges. Hive appears to be a bright red-pink. Fade arms are a dark red-purple color.
For me, very dark greens appear brown, black, or grey depending on the size of the color patch and the lighting. Dark reds are also sometimes difficult for me to discern. Pinks sometimes appear grey depending on what background color it's against. I mentioned in the following post about lighting/atmospheric effects and how I perceive them. There's a link to a colorblindess test there too, haha.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=112623" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=112623</a>
The way everything was colored in the nightvision test video, I don't believe anyone with any type of colorblindness (maybe those that are monochromatic maybe) would have trouble using it. Even if you turned one of Max's tests into completely greyscale, you would still be able to discern structures and edges due to the high contrast.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know what language that is, but it was named Ali<u>e</u>n(s) even in german.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm with you there. Don't disgrace one of my favorite movies! j/k
in fact the mockup is yellow brownish, not green, and the hive is purplish red and the fade arms aswell..
if i thought blue was green my whole life.. how would i know im seeing a different color then anyone else?
the word "green" and "blue" are just labels.. if i see different color consistently under that label.. theirs no way to know if I am actually seeing the same color as everyone else.
-color theory by zupe
if i thought blue was green my whole life.. how would i know im seeing a different color then anyone else?
the word "green" and "blue" are just labels.. if i see different color consistently under that label.. theirs no way to know if I am actually seeing the same color as everyone else.
-color theory by zupe<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually the only way for this to work is if your whole color spectrum was shifted.. cant just switch "green" and "blue".. because on the color spectrum the blue would now be next to yellow.. and between yellow and blue there would be green again..
but anyway... how would you know your color spectrum wasnt shifted down 1 from everyone elses color spectrum?
---edit---
actually it couldn't be shifted down just 1 color.. it would have to be shifted down enough so the primary colors are still the primary colors under their labels "yellow" "blue" and "red" so blue would have to be shifted enough to be in place of red or yellow. if that where to happen.. there is no way of telling if your actually seeing the right colors..
anyway.. this convo with myself was nice.. thanks guys.. prob way over your heads.
---edit---
So if they say "these are the same" and you say "no, they are not": tadaaa, diagnosis done.
Edit: language
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if i thought blue was green my whole life.. how would i know im seeing a different color then anyone else?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If i understand you right...
Its absurd(because it doesnt work like that), but still it wouldnt matter... You learned this is red this is blue this is green etc... So whatever colors you might see, you and everyone else can name and see "blue" as "blue" etc...
Colorblindness is a little different. Look how we see objects, then add some frak'd* up receptors in someones eye:
<img src="http://www.4zero4.net/balloons.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><img src="http://www.4zero4.net/ballonssim.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
now its like 1 color** is filtered out. (The guy could tell you this is blue that is yellow - but he cant say if something is red or green... its like he sees more with brightness, so very bright is yellow - and everything else that doesnt have much blue in it is color X - if a red and green color with close or same brightness is next to eachother he only sees one color X - and thats how you find out that you have a partial colorblindness)
<img src="http://www.twodocs.com/images/color-vision-plates/total_color_blind_test_numbers_8.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
*badword filters love BSG
** or more, or all colors
(there are a few different types of colorblindness... so this sample and test images dont speak/work for all cases)
edit: changed the picture... harimau was right but i think it works better with white background
Also, it's a philosophical question. If I were to look through your eyes, would I see the same colours? Is your blue, your red, your green the same as my blue, red and green?
Irrelevant, but nevertheless...
Personally, I think my colour spectrum is the right way to go and everyone else, if they are different, should adopt.
That's ok though -- I know I'm colorblind.
Anyhow, more topic related, I pretty much had the alien "flashlight" on the entire time while playing. For me it just made everything easier to see. To be able to get rid of all the detail from the environment and have it one color, and any structure or player orange just made it so easy to see compared to with the flashlight off. It does look really cool though.
I wonder more what it might be like if it was more thermal/heat vision based (the flamethrower would come into huge play here and really screw with aliens I think) or a "creature vision". What I mean by creature vision is it would only allow aliens to see living lifeforms when activated. So all the aliens structures and players, maybe a subtle indication of infestation too.
Just some of my thoughts after playing aliens with the flashlight on for about 30 minutes nonstop :)