<!--quoteo(post=1812701:date=Dec 2 2010, 07:23 PM:name=DJPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Dec 2 2010, 07:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812701"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->are the MAC's getting anything to compensate for marines taking their building job now? an auxiliary offensive upgrade perhaps?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
macs still weld and are needed to build a lot of the stuff. correct me if im mistaken but can a com drop a res node without a mac now? if they can i agree that only macs should be allowed to actually drop the nodes. after that it should be up to a marine to either help build or guard the mac.
GOOD SHOW! Really like the new balance patch. I only hope the marines get some kind of building tool in their hand. What if this was the welder and you had to research it and therefor the marines can't build at start? Anyways, a lot of good things in this patch.
<!--quoteo(post=1812920:date=Dec 3 2010, 03:28 PM:name=perfectheat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (perfectheat @ Dec 3 2010, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->GOOD SHOW! Really like the new balance patch. I only hope the marines get some kind of building tool in their hand. What if this was the welder and you had to research it and therefor the marines can't build at start? Anyways, a lot of good things in this patch.
Cheers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be ridiculous as Aliens can already rush Marines and win - building is essential for the Marines - <u>especially</u> at the start.
<!--quoteo(post=1812941:date=Dec 3 2010, 05:19 PM:name=Zuriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zuriki @ Dec 3 2010, 05:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812941"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That would be ridiculous as Aliens can already rush Marines and win - building is essential for the Marines - <u>especially</u> at the start.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not if you start with two MACs like before. NS1 Skulk rush was always there. It's all about balance. You could have levels on the welders too. There is plenty of unexplored space.
Medpacks (I assume) removing parasite could actually be more of a buff for aliens in certain instances. Imagine how this changes medspam, just fire a dozen parasites at a marine and that pile of medpacks he is standing on disappears.
<!--quoteo(post=1812881:date=Dec 3 2010, 08:07 AM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Dec 3 2010, 08:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Uhm... and how exactly is this better than having the MAC build it while you're killing the skulks?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It may or may not have been but I know I'm smart enough to stop building when a skulk approaches and just shoot it myself, or try and dodge it then shoot etc. If a skulk (especially with the current frequent tiny lag spikes) manages to run up to the MAC and give it a couple chomps it won't fight back and will just get killed regardless if a marine had been trying to cover it. I know when I'm building I hope my teammates are able to kill every skulk trying to stop me but I can't expect them too. At least when I'm building I can pick and choose when I feel in danger and stop to defend myself. Optimally a MAC building while marines guard is what we want though and with the new beefing up of the MAC it will be worth researching and being put to use asap as an assistant and not some overly import & fragile rambo that runs ahead of the group, dies, and forces marines to turtle until higher tech.
I can tell you all of my comm experiences in previous NS2 patches had me very frustrate with MACs because they would keep dying and it was not clear to the other marines where they were about to place a structure and half the time they would die before they got to the build spot or before they finished building. I just feel commanders placing the structures themselves and marines at least being able to assist in the build takes away much of this frustration of relying on a quirky AI unit to (hopefully) at the least initiate the build process before getting chomped.
Let's also not forget basebeotch from ns1 which was a useful role to have someone perform however it basically took a player out of the game. MACs make a good solution to this problem.
This all said, I think the MACs in some aspects might have been nerfed too much. For example slower building should not be the case, it should be able to build faster because this motivates marines to use them.
I'm happy where this is going though, I feel much more involved with my team and more important as a unit to them.
<!--quoteo(post=1812953:date=Dec 3 2010, 05:28 PM:name=Lazarus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lazarus @ Dec 3 2010, 05:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Medpacks (I assume) removing parasite could actually be more of a buff for aliens in certain instances. Imagine how this changes medspam, just fire a dozen parasites at a marine and that pile of medpacks he is standing on disappears.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As long as parasite does damage this would happen regardless of if medpacks get rid of the parasite. :\
Nerf the lerk spikes a bit too - i.e. make them a bit limited in range like a shotgun (and perhaps tail off the damage caused), or cost more energy per spike so you don't get them sat half the map away taking out structures...
It'd also help if you could switch weapons faster (particularly in the case of the switchaxe) - and I don't think you can move and swap weapons at the moment either, which makes it very hard !
I agree with a couple others who have said the MAC building speed nerf was probably not good, it should build about as fast as a marine imo... a MAC should be self sufficient because, frankly, while marine building is good and suspenseful and definitely adds an important link between marines and the commander, a marine should not be required to do maintenance stuff and sit around in base building crap.... I think marine building should be used to quickly build up the front, once say a tech point is secured and people are moved on, the MAC should be able to drop in other stuff (such as armories, IPs, sentries etc) without a marine having to stick around to ensure things get built that same day :P Also from a balance perspective, marines are losing 2 people (commander/builder) whereas aliens just lose a commander.
Since the patch (or possibly since a Windows XP Pro 64 bit reinstall last week) my copy hasn't run at all, it doesn't even get as far as adding something to the processes list in Task Manager, I click "play" and then nothing.
Verified the files in Steam, deleted the lot and reinstalled and it's the same. New drivers installed last week with Windows. Firewall is off.
So, if the Mac is maintenance, does he repair faster then marines do? (Can marines even repair buldings? Not sure about NS2) I havent played the new build yet but it sounds like Macs being a little bit useless now as they cannot work without marine protection except for the "save" spots which will not get damage because then they woud not be the "save spot".
<!--quoteo(post=1812831:date=Dec 3 2010, 09:45 AM:name=Simpsoid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Simpsoid @ Dec 3 2010, 09:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812831"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To you and many others that have comments on this change I say this; I always loved how whilst building as a marine you were always on edge of insanity... wary of any and every noise nearby. With your back facing out to the world it always felt that at any moment a skulk or something much worse could sneak up and surprise you. And since you were sitting there like a fresh bag of meat you had to react quickly. In the dark of night playing years ago this was my number one fear. I had many, many times listening on loud headphones where the munch of a silent skulk awakened and startled me and made me jump out of my chair as I was building something. I am thankful for to have building in again. This really means that the marines have to stay in the light and cover each other if not for the suspense of the whole ordeal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. Marine building adds a sh1tload of suspense. I had a lot of fun in 156 but the performance issues and server stability problems made me yearn for the next patch. Also as commander I felt disconnected from my marines and vice versa - I'm glad this is back in. Covering your marines as they frantically build that critical phase gate to assault the second or third hive - wicked, and essential to the tension and pace that make NS so great.
I'm impressed with the rapid progress being made - keep it up guys I'm getting hooked already!
<!--quoteo(post=1812973:date=Dec 3 2010, 01:40 PM:name=Josemite)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josemite @ Dec 3 2010, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812973"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->a marine should not be required to do maintenance stuff and sit around in base building crap.... I think marine building should be used to quickly build up the front, once say a tech point is secured and people are moved on, the MAC should be able to drop in other stuff (such as armories, IPs, sentries etc) without a marine having to stick around to ensure things get built that same day :P Also from a balance perspective, marines are losing 2 people (commander/builder) whereas aliens just lose a commander.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. I like how you specified that marine building should be exclusive to building in the front, in emergency situations. Makes perfect sense only that way, and exclusive marine building all the time with base monkeys make no sense and just drags the game down to the tried and failed approach of ns1.
Btw i don't understand how marine building = enhancing the link between marines and com. This is trivial maintenance work so why take any number of your 3-6 marines (in small beta servers) and force them to build anything?! Seems like a good way to loose the game against an enemy with nothing on their mind but search and destroy.
<!--quoteo(post=1812988:date=Dec 3 2010, 02:29 PM:name=Avalon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Avalon @ Dec 3 2010, 02:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812988"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think MAC build speed should be brought back up, but I'm fine with marine building.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. The reason macs are so useful right now, in essentially empty 2 vs 3 games, is they provide the marine commander with a way to get critical structures built despite the complete lack of marines. This is too important of a feature to discard so early. (At least keep it until we can get marine strength up, 50 patches from now, in full servers of 15 vs 15 etc).
My experience was a bit irritating to be honest...
Game 1 , marines were outside the map at thier spawn ( not sure which map ... the one where the marine start on a ledge and has 1 long path to both exits ) , seems the comm built a IP outside the map. How I dont know.
Game 2 same server , despite players advising dont build Hydras and Sentries the map was loaded with Hydras in short order .. eventually boomlag and timedout.
Game 3 different server , laggy as hell and just when I went to leap into a marines face ... crashed to desktop ( NS has stopped working error ).
Need to either fix the lag issue with the Sentries and Hydras or temp hard cap them till the issue is found and fixed.
Seems the new build has brought a issue with the lighting when you kill a powernode ... it flashes intermittantly between competely dark and red for a sec or two, surely it cant be intended to blind the player competely ? Fell through the map as a egg once.
Seems that the game doesnt clean up after it finished a game and causes mishief if you play another match or change servers.
OH!! I nearly forgot to mention this ... when I first load NS 2, the game really gives my HDD a workout and takes a bit of time to load but if I exit and then start the game again the next load up is much faster without the HDD activity. It isnt virtual memorth thrashing either as I have minimal processes running and decent amount of RAM. It may be DLL caching though.
* Mandatory whine * I really wanna plaaaaaay..... ( especially as I continue to protest Activisions exploitation of the gaming market with my wallet, and against EA's lies regarding BFBC 2 PC... I dont have much to play, cant even play TF 2 as its more a WoW trade channel chat emulator with some cheap crit kills / deaths replacing the team aspect of the game )
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Running the game at absolute minimum is an option. Resolution apparently doesn't effect the performance much, but going on <b>ridiculously awful</b> with <b>r_shadows 0</b> typed in the console will give you a performance gain (in most cases). Keep in mind it is still closed beta, so we are all in effect game engine testers. Reporting this stuff is always good though!
Ahhh, the game is sooooooo much better now than a couple of builds ago. My chief complaint at this point is how the game gets quite laggy as: - More structures get built. even if those structures are not firing etc. - The game progresses (this might just be because of the previous point).
Of course I'm also looking forward to balance changes, the jetpack, the onos, etc., but right now I'm mostly looking forward to the game becoming more stable and more optimized.
MACs should be able to build at normal speed when it's within X meters of a comchair or perhaps within an entire section that has a comchair in it. This would make it so that players would be needed to build only when expanding/capping. This would take care of the "baseBiahtch" problem while still requiring marines to build in high tension areas. I'm a total fan of marine building, but would like to cut out the menial aspects.
My previous report of the lighting issue was wrong , it seems at times the game will display a black screen with only your weapon and hud visible...this happened to all the players on the last game I was just in... on the other hand we were able to get in 2 games in till the finish.
My observations playing as a Marine from the last game :
The new GL is really hard to use, I noticed the following :
- I tried to bounce the nade off a wall into the corridor and the nade went into the wall and vanished , however I bounced a nade on the floor and it THEN bounced off the wall it was passing right through. - Theres a sizable delay in firing the nades. - Direct hit on a Crag did register damage to the crag but there was no visible explosion of the nade ( fired a few into the thing ). - Its freaking hard to land a hit on ANY alien player with the GL, its like having the hit reg of the LMG without the sheer amount of bullets the LMG fires ( I play a decent Demo in TF 2 and use the Pipe launcher a lot , so I am not too bad at using in direct none hit scan arc weapons ).
I also experienced an issue hitting a Fade with my shotgun.. the thing was running at me and I was running back blasting it in the face but it didnt seem to register any hits, I emptied a clip into the bugger and died to his claws despite him just running straight at me.
On a positive note I did notice the new marine build system in action and it did seem to encourage marines to work with the Commander, I guess since the marines could actually help build that much desired armory they stuck about and got in :P
Arrgh , this game has soooooo much potential. I can see brief glimpses of the fun action pack battles to come in between the ... soon to be squashed bugs.
Looks like you guys are working overtime these days.
Ummmm.... BRING ON THE SLIME !!!
<img src="http://www2.fileplanet.com/images/170000/171048ss_sm2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> This picture should clarify what sort of slime I am longing for
Metal SmithJoin Date: 2009-11-05Member: 69283Members
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Grenade now looks like it's coming out of the barrel instead of your face<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is so much win in one fix. Maybe it's just the say you say it, but I can't help but feel the game has become that much more epic because you used to be able to shoot nades out of your face...
<!--quoteo(post=1813052:date=Dec 3 2010, 05:08 PM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Dec 3 2010, 05:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813052"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->aliens REALLY spawn too fast. unbelievably fast. egg spawn rate needs to be reduced by a lot, and hive cost needs to be upped.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I second this. The hive functions as a cc, crag, and multiple IP all in one, but it only costs as much as a single CC or IP.
Comments
macs still weld and are needed to build a lot of the stuff. correct me if im mistaken but can a com drop a res node without a mac now? if they can i agree that only macs should be allowed to actually drop the nodes. after that it should be up to a marine to either help build or guard the mac.
Cheers.
Cheers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be ridiculous as Aliens can already rush Marines and win - building is essential for the Marines - <u>especially</u> at the start.
So you went from both sides being overpowered at different points in the game to just aliens.
Can't discern any noticeable performance or lag improvements.
Not if you start with two MACs like before. NS1 Skulk rush was always there. It's all about balance. You could have levels on the welders too. There is plenty of unexplored space.
It may or may not have been but I know I'm smart enough to stop building when a skulk approaches and just shoot it myself, or try and dodge it then shoot etc. If a skulk (especially with the current frequent tiny lag spikes) manages to run up to the MAC and give it a couple chomps it won't fight back and will just get killed regardless if a marine had been trying to cover it. I know when I'm building I hope my teammates are able to kill every skulk trying to stop me but I can't expect them too. At least when I'm building I can pick and choose when I feel in danger and stop to defend myself. Optimally a MAC building while marines guard is what we want though and with the new beefing up of the MAC it will be worth researching and being put to use asap as an assistant and not some overly import & fragile rambo that runs ahead of the group, dies, and forces marines to turtle until higher tech.
I can tell you all of my comm experiences in previous NS2 patches had me very frustrate with MACs because they would keep dying and it was not clear to the other marines where they were about to place a structure and half the time they would die before they got to the build spot or before they finished building. I just feel commanders placing the structures themselves and marines at least being able to assist in the build takes away much of this frustration of relying on a quirky AI unit to (hopefully) at the least initiate the build process before getting chomped.
Let's also not forget basebeotch from ns1 which was a useful role to have someone perform however it basically took a player out of the game. MACs make a good solution to this problem.
This all said, I think the MACs in some aspects might have been nerfed too much. For example slower building should not be the case, it should be able to build faster because this motivates marines to use them.
I'm happy where this is going though, I feel much more involved with my team and more important as a unit to them.
On the plus side, if marines manage to get some bases developed the game is quite balanced, however the marine early game is damn hard.
As long as parasite does damage this would happen regardless of if medpacks get rid of the parasite. :\
Verified the files in Steam, deleted the lot and reinstalled and it's the same. New drivers installed last week with Windows. Firewall is off.
Anyone got any ideas or should I email UWE?
I havent played the new build yet but it sounds like Macs being a little bit useless now as they cannot work without marine protection except for the "save" spots which will not get damage because then they woud not be the "save spot".
In the dark of night playing years ago this was my number one fear. I had many, many times listening on loud headphones where the munch of a silent skulk awakened and startled me and made me jump out of my chair as I was building something.
I am thankful for to have building in again. This really means that the marines have to stay in the light and cover each other if not for the suspense of the whole ordeal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. Marine building adds a sh1tload of suspense. I had a lot of fun in 156 but the performance issues and server stability problems made me yearn for the next patch. Also as commander I felt disconnected from my marines and vice versa - I'm glad this is back in. Covering your marines as they frantically build that critical phase gate to assault the second or third hive - wicked, and essential to the tension and pace that make NS so great.
I'm impressed with the rapid progress being made - keep it up guys I'm getting hooked already!
Agreed. I like how you specified that marine building should be exclusive to building in the front, in emergency situations. Makes perfect sense only that way, and exclusive marine building all the time with base monkeys make no sense and just drags the game down to the tried and failed approach of ns1.
Btw i don't understand how marine building = enhancing the link between marines and com. This is trivial maintenance work so why take any number of your 3-6 marines (in small beta servers) and force them to build anything?! Seems like a good way to loose the game against an enemy with nothing on their mind but search and destroy.
<!--quoteo(post=1812988:date=Dec 3 2010, 02:29 PM:name=Avalon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Avalon @ Dec 3 2010, 02:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812988"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think MAC build speed should be brought back up, but I'm fine with marine building.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. The reason macs are so useful right now, in essentially empty 2 vs 3 games, is they provide the marine commander with a way to get critical structures built despite the complete lack of marines. This is too important of a feature to discard so early. (At least keep it until we can get marine strength up, 50 patches from now, in full servers of 15 vs 15 etc).
Game 1 , marines were outside the map at thier spawn ( not sure which map ... the one where the marine start on a ledge and has 1 long path to both exits ) , seems the comm built a IP outside the map. How I dont know.
Game 2 same server , despite players advising dont build Hydras and Sentries the map was loaded with Hydras in short order .. eventually boomlag and timedout.
Game 3 different server , laggy as hell and just when I went to leap into a marines face ... crashed to desktop ( NS has stopped working error ).
Need to either fix the lag issue with the Sentries and Hydras or temp hard cap them till the issue is found and fixed.
Seems the new build has brought a issue with the lighting when you kill a powernode ... it flashes intermittantly between competely dark and red for a sec or two, surely it cant be intended to blind the player competely ?
Fell through the map as a egg once.
Seems that the game doesnt clean up after it finished a game and causes mishief if you play another match or change servers.
OH!! I nearly forgot to mention this ... when I first load NS 2, the game really gives my HDD a workout and takes a bit of time to load but if I exit and then start the game again the next load up is much faster without the HDD activity. It isnt virtual memorth thrashing either as I have minimal processes running and decent amount of RAM. It may be DLL caching though.
* Mandatory whine * I really wanna plaaaaaay.....
( especially as I continue to protest Activisions exploitation of the gaming market with my wallet, and against EA's lies regarding BFBC 2 PC... I dont have much to play, cant even play TF 2 as its more a WoW trade channel chat emulator with some cheap crit kills / deaths replacing the team aspect of the game )
- More structures get built. even if those structures are not firing etc.
- The game progresses (this might just be because of the previous point).
Of course I'm also looking forward to balance changes, the jetpack, the onos, etc., but right now I'm mostly looking forward to the game becoming more stable and more optimized.
Cheers guys, keep up the awesome work!
My observations playing as a Marine from the last game :
The new GL is really hard to use, I noticed the following :
- I tried to bounce the nade off a wall into the corridor and the nade went into the wall and vanished , however I bounced a nade on the floor and it THEN bounced off the wall it was passing right through.
- Theres a sizable delay in firing the nades.
- Direct hit on a Crag did register damage to the crag but there was no visible explosion of the nade ( fired a few into the thing ).
- Its freaking hard to land a hit on ANY alien player with the GL, its like having the hit reg of the LMG without the sheer amount of bullets the LMG fires ( I play a decent Demo in TF 2 and use the Pipe launcher a lot , so I am not too bad at using in direct none hit scan arc weapons ).
I also experienced an issue hitting a Fade with my shotgun.. the thing was running at me and I was running back blasting it in the face but it didnt seem to register any hits, I emptied a clip into the bugger and died to his claws despite him just running straight at me.
On a positive note I did notice the new marine build system in action and it did seem to encourage marines to work with the Commander, I guess since the marines could actually help build that much desired armory they stuck about and got in :P
Arrgh , this game has soooooo much potential. I can see brief glimpses of the fun action pack battles to come in between the ... soon to be squashed bugs.
Ummmm.... BRING ON THE SLIME !!!
<img src="http://www2.fileplanet.com/images/170000/171048ss_sm2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This picture should clarify what sort of slime I am longing for
This is so much win in one fix. Maybe it's just the say you say it, but I can't help but feel the game has become that much more epic because you used to be able to shoot nades out of your face...
I second this. The hive functions as a cc, crag, and multiple IP all in one, but it only costs as much as a single CC or IP.
edit:
Nvm, It seems to work if you delete the "ClientRegistry.blob" file in the steam-folder..