<!--quoteo(post=1812682:date=Dec 2 2010, 09:55 PM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Dec 2 2010, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812682"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Interesting. While I understand the Marine building / comm disconnect argument. I don't understand how holding down the E key and staring at a percentage is fun. That's one thing that always bugged me about NS1, which is probably why I preferred playing aliens.
I was hoping to see "Ridiculously absurd performance increase for Hydras and Sentries in the server code", but oh well. It will happen eventually.
As always, 10,000 thanks UWE. Keep it coming! ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then don't ARC's can still build and other marines will build as well. The only time you might need to is if your ramboing and killed a RT, and the com wants to drop one on you, or at the very start of the game before the commander gets an ARC, and that takes what.. 5 seconds to build with an entire team?
And if you don't see how it's fun then apparently tension/team work isn't your bag and you should stick with aliens.
<!--quoteo(post=1812682:date=Dec 2 2010, 09:55 PM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Dec 2 2010, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812682"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Interesting. While I understand the Marine building / comm disconnect argument. I don't understand how holding down the E key and staring at a percentage is fun. That's one thing that always bugged me about NS1, which is probably why I preferred playing aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand where you're coming from, and this is the argument I initially made in favor of MAC building, too. However, after actually playing with the changes I found myself coming down on the side of player building. Staring at a progress bar may not feel like a good design paradigm, but in practice it creates a lot of suspense and also strongly links players to their commanders.
Without it, it just wasn't Natural Selection to me. Good patch, dudes.
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Maybe a good way to help with MAC building is to allow players to see where MACs are through the wall (like hive sight / Motion Tracking) so marines can escort him.
<!--quoteo(post=1812690:date=Dec 2 2010, 10:08 PM:name=cmc5788)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cmc5788 @ Dec 2 2010, 10:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I understand where you're coming from, and this is the argument I initially made in favor of MAC building, too. However, after actually playing with the changes I found myself coming down on the side of player building. Staring at a progress bar may not feel like a good design paradigm, but in practice it creates a lot of suspense and also strongly links players to their commanders.
Without it, it just wasn't Natural Selection to me. Good patch, dudes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Glad you are able to understand and appreciate the team work/suspense that it adds to the game.
Again the entire POINT of the marines is to be linked together and the commander, they are TEAM play focused and anything that comes between that or lessens it should be removed or not added into the game. It was also another aspect that separated marines from aliens which again is very, very important in a game like this. The more racial diversity the better the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1812682:date=Dec 3 2010, 03:55 AM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Dec 3 2010, 03:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812682"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Interesting. While I understand the Marine building / comm disconnect argument. I don't understand how holding down the E key and staring at a percentage is fun. That's one thing that always bugged me about NS1, which is probably why I preferred playing aliens.
I was hoping to see "Ridiculously absurd performance increase for Hydras and Sentries in the server code", but oh well. It will happen eventually.
As always, 10,000 thanks UWE. Keep it coming! ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I feel that building is part of the fun. For example, dropping a PG or building a siege under pressure, being ordered to go somewhere for logistics and not just to shoot stuff, etc. It's not the actual E-pressing part that's fun, it's the distribution of manpower: should a marine be building an outpost, or should he go take down an enemy position?
Sure, there are very boring parts to this such as the res monkey, going back to base to build the proto, etc. That's why the MAC can also do these things now. However the great thing is that, if really needed, the comm can demand a marine to move out of its way to help the team logistics. It seems to me that, the more options, the greater the possibilities.
Also, MACs are not ARCs. The ARC will be the siege.
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1812690:date=Dec 2 2010, 11:08 PM:name=cmc5788)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cmc5788 @ Dec 2 2010, 11:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I understand where you're coming from, and this is the argument I initially made in favor of MAC building, too. However, after actually playing with the changes I found myself coming down on the side of player building. Staring at a progress bar may not feel like a good design paradigm, but in practice it creates a lot of suspense and also strongly links players to their commanders.
Without it, it just wasn't Natural Selection to me. Good patch, dudes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think its because you have team mates who form around a structure and protect you and it from being damaged.
Without marines building, your sort of at the mercy for some AI to figure it out.
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
@GivingTree: ARCs are the new name for the Siege Tank robot drone thingy. It's controlled by Comms and purely for offense. I think you are referring to the MACs. While I understand your point about not needing it that often, that won't be entirely true. As with any NS game, speed is a very powerful asset. So, getting building up asap is important, which results in Marines doing almost all of the building, hence staring at a percentage.
I can understand the tension, and love teamwork (when it works), but doing nothing but pressing a key gets old. It strikes me as an obligatory mechanism instead of a skill-based one. I wouldn't mind building if you actually had to do something.
<!--quoteo(post=1812697:date=Dec 2 2010, 10:16 PM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Dec 2 2010, 10:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812697"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@GivingTree: ARCs are the new name for the Siege Tank robot drone thingy. It's controlled by Comms and purely for offense. I think you are referring to the MACs. While I understand your point about not needing it that often, that won't be entirely true. As with any NS game, speed is a very powerful asset. So, getting building up asap is important, which results in Marines doing almost all of the building, hence staring at a percentage.
I can understand the tension, and love teamwork (when it works), but doing nothing but pressing a key gets old. It strikes me as an obligatory mechanism instead of a skill-based one. I wouldn't mind building if you actually had to do something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If building took very long, I guess it might be a big deal. As it is right now, things build very quickly, and chances are strong you won't be "doing nothing" for long when the aliens come to stop you from making that harvester.
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
edited December 2010
@cmc5788: Yeah, I agree and I want to actually play it. I was just expressing my apprehension about the mechanic. I wasn't trying to start an argument or anything.
Hell, I'm just happy to have a new patch to play! :)
They have 2x the armor which is a huge improvement and I am sure they will be tweaked accordingly over time, this is the first patch with this change so.. it takes time.
<!--quoteo(post=1812705:date=Dec 2 2010, 11:28 PM:name=Pistachio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pistachio @ Dec 2 2010, 11:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>"Ammo packs now remove parasite"</b>
This I don't understand. Despite the marine team needing to spend resources on a parasite removal through this route, it still seems too easy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> i think it's supposed to be med packs
<!--quoteo(post=1812703:date=Dec 2 2010, 11:24 PM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Dec 2 2010, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812703"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They have 2x the armor which is a huge improvement and I am sure they will be tweaked accordingly over time, this is the first patch with this change so.. it takes time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
which is why i would think a secondary offensive role would compliment the armor buff. double thinking my suggestion, it would take away the turret's job somewhat.. maybe the ability to repair heavy armor at a balanced rate.
Anyone else got a nice fat 760 mb update? (Seriously, the changelog is mostly about tweeks to game code and effects, shouldn't be bigger than 40 mb tops!)
Edit:
Oops, missed the bit about the map tweeks. Regardless, 760 mb still feels very excessive...
Hot CoffeeJoin Date: 2010-11-03Member: 74744Members, Constellation
edited December 2010
Personally I liked having the marine-oriented building from NS1. It made sure the commander and players had to work together. Before this, either side of the team could kind of do their own thing and fair reasonably well, as long as the commander got upgrades for the marines he could just have his MACs build everything. It also creates scenarios where two players may be out in the field, and one has to build while the other keeps watch, which is a bit more exciting than moving on and having a MAC build it.
<!--quoteo(post=1812712:date=Dec 3 2010, 04:34 AM:name=LuaPineapple)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LuaPineapple @ Dec 3 2010, 04:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812712"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone else got a nice fat 760 mb update? (Seriously, the changelog is mostly about tweeks to game code and effects, shouldn't be bigger than 40 mb tops!)
Edit:
Oops, missed the bit about the map tweeks. Regardless, 760 mb still feels very excessive...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
are you complaining because of how much they changed? people around here will find anything to ###### about....
Comments
I was hoping to see "Ridiculously absurd performance increase for Hydras and Sentries in the server code", but oh well. It will happen eventually.
As always, 10,000 thanks UWE. Keep it coming! ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then don't ARC's can still build and other marines will build as well. The only time you might need to is if your ramboing and killed a RT, and the com wants to drop one on you, or at the very start of the game before the commander gets an ARC, and that takes what.. 5 seconds to build with an entire team?
And if you don't see how it's fun then apparently tension/team work isn't your bag and you should stick with aliens.
I understand where you're coming from, and this is the argument I initially made in favor of MAC building, too. However, after actually playing with the changes I found myself coming down on the side of player building. Staring at a progress bar may not feel like a good design paradigm, but in practice it creates a lot of suspense and also strongly links players to their commanders.
Without it, it just wasn't Natural Selection to me. Good patch, dudes.
*jumps off a cliff*
Without it, it just wasn't Natural Selection to me. Good patch, dudes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Glad you are able to understand and appreciate the team work/suspense that it adds to the game.
Again the entire POINT of the marines is to be linked together and the commander, they are TEAM play focused and anything that comes between that or lessens it should be removed or not added into the game. It was also another aspect that separated marines from aliens which again is very, very important in a game like this. The more racial diversity the better the game.
I was hoping to see "Ridiculously absurd performance increase for Hydras and Sentries in the server code", but oh well. It will happen eventually.
As always, 10,000 thanks UWE. Keep it coming! ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I feel that building is part of the fun. For example, dropping a PG or building a siege under pressure, being ordered to go somewhere for logistics and not just to shoot stuff, etc. It's not the actual E-pressing part that's fun, it's the distribution of manpower: should a marine be building an outpost, or should he go take down an enemy position?
Sure, there are very boring parts to this such as the res monkey, going back to base to build the proto, etc. That's why the MAC can also do these things now. However the great thing is that, if really needed, the comm can demand a marine to move out of its way to help the team logistics. It seems to me that, the more options, the greater the possibilities.
Also, MACs are not ARCs. The ARC will be the siege.
Without it, it just wasn't Natural Selection to me. Good patch, dudes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think its because you have team mates who form around a structure and protect you and it from being damaged.
Without marines building, your sort of at the mercy for some AI to figure it out.
I can understand the tension, and love teamwork (when it works), but doing nothing but pressing a key gets old. It strikes me as an obligatory mechanism instead of a skill-based one. I wouldn't mind building if you actually had to do something.
I can understand the tension, and love teamwork (when it works), but doing nothing but pressing a key gets old. It strikes me as an obligatory mechanism instead of a skill-based one. I wouldn't mind building if you actually had to do something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If building took very long, I guess it might be a big deal. As it is right now, things build very quickly, and chances are strong you won't be "doing nothing" for long when the aliens come to stop you from making that harvester.
EDIT: i was a bit concerned about this at first, but now i see that it works out anyway in current build.
Hell, I'm just happy to have a new patch to play! :)
This I don't understand. Despite the marine team needing to spend resources on a parasite removal through this route, it still seems too easy.
This I don't understand. Despite the marine team needing to spend resources on a parasite removal through this route, it still seems too easy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think it's supposed to be med packs
which is why i would think a secondary offensive role would compliment the armor buff. double thinking my suggestion, it would take away the turret's job somewhat.. maybe the ability to repair heavy armor at a balanced rate.
LOL I didn't notice actually, too busy spamming nades around.
Edit:
Oops, missed the bit about the map tweeks. Regardless, 760 mb still feels very excessive...
And there just went my weekend.
Edit:
Oops, missed the bit about the map tweeks. Regardless, 760 mb still feels very excessive...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
are you complaining because of how much they changed? people around here will find anything to ###### about....