Straw Poll: Marines Building Options
spellman23
NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
Note that Flayra has weighed in on the subject:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110696&view=findpost&p=1790890" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1790890</a>
Also, that thread has some very good (albeit it's very long) thoughts on all sides. Probably good reading if you have an hour or so to kill and can read past the ad hominems.
Here's the options from what I see. Let us assume MACs always can place and build buildings.
<ol type='1'><li>MACs only way to place and build [Build150 version]</li><li>Marines can help build, but MACs are better</li><li>Marines can help build as well as the MAC</li><li>Comm can place w/o a MAC and Marines can Build [NS1 + MACs]</li><li>Upgrade/Item allows Marines to build</li><li>Deployable Buildings/MACs [carried as equipment]</li></ol>
Pick your favorite(s). Or suggest a new one and I'll add it in. Note that choices 2 and 3 can act as modifiers for other choices.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110696&view=findpost&p=1790890" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1790890</a>
Also, that thread has some very good (albeit it's very long) thoughts on all sides. Probably good reading if you have an hour or so to kill and can read past the ad hominems.
Here's the options from what I see. Let us assume MACs always can place and build buildings.
<ol type='1'><li>MACs only way to place and build [Build150 version]</li><li>Marines can help build, but MACs are better</li><li>Marines can help build as well as the MAC</li><li>Comm can place w/o a MAC and Marines can Build [NS1 + MACs]</li><li>Upgrade/Item allows Marines to build</li><li>Deployable Buildings/MACs [carried as equipment]</li></ol>
Pick your favorite(s). Or suggest a new one and I'll add it in. Note that choices 2 and 3 can act as modifiers for other choices.
Comments
Also am I the only one who thinks that, from a "universe explanation" standpoint, since teleports have been done away with (which if we ever flesh out a story could easily be explained away with "teleporting is bad for your health") structures magically teleporting in doesn't really fit? I kind of like having to build a structure from the ground up once the MAC or a player is there to build it.
Also I think ghost dropping is a great idea.
By the way can't ya make this a real poll topic?
***EDIT***
Wait I am a bit confused.. is option 2 the same as 4, just slower building for marines?
marines building at a third or quarter rate, but only MAC's can place buildings
unless that's what you meant in #2
And with only liek one third of the game available to us there is no way of testing the current system at all.
And with only liek one third of the game available to us there is no way of testing the current system at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 Â Yes, lets try option 1 first. I would love to see how this affects game play. maybe this concept is the mother of all online-fun, don't strangle it in its cradle ;-)
<!--quoteo(post=1790950:date=Aug 3 2010, 11:58 AM:name=5EuroSchein)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (5EuroSchein @ Aug 3 2010, 11:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790950"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I want to test the current system first before i can make any choice.
And with only liek one third of the game available to us there is no way of testing the current system at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed.
I can imagine some other ideas to create a similar feeling like in ns1.
-If there is some kind of reinforcement system for both teams, the squadleader has to be protected while phasing in a marine.
-Marines have to use (like building) the mobile siege after the comm gives the deploy command in order to make it work
If marines were able to assist building, gorge should aswell and at a slighty faster rate than a single marine to balance for different teamsizes and address the fact that not all aliens are able to build.
Coms must spend resources if they want an edge in construction ala "mini-MACs" which rines could carry replacing their ax.
MACs are great for small games when there are not enough people online...however, some of us really hate escorting MACs around and would like to be able to do the MACs job...make this ability be an researchable ability by the commander which is not available by default..
so by default...only MACs can place/build structures, and once the com researches the ability for marines to carry the "MAC kits"...marines can replace their secondary wep with the kit to get the ability to do what MACs do by using the "MAC kits"
I know flayra said he hates these duplication of abilities...and i agree...but i dont see any "perfect" solution to this...i mean how do we allow for the com to build structures when there are no compatent marine players online (i.e. MACs are good for this),,,and how do we allow for the com to not be tied down to MACs when there are compatent players online that can actually do the job better then an AI bot MAC....
There is no "perfect" solution as i see it...we can only find the best way of achiving both (which would unfortunately lead to duplication...but that would be better then being restricted to MACs only..)
thats my idea... i guess it fits closest with no5
<ol type='1'><li>MACs only way to place and build [Build150 version]</li><li>Marines can help build, but MACs are better</li><li>Marines can help build as well as the MAC</li><li>Comm can place w/o a MAC and Marines can Build [NS1 + MACs]</li><li>Upgrade/Item allows Marines to build</li><li>Deployable Buildings/MACs [carried as equipment]</li></ol>
Pick your favorite(s). Or suggest a new one and I'll add it in. Note that choices 2 and 3 can act as modifiers for other choices.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd prefer option 1, but am not against option 2. I am strongly against any option that significantly reduces the role of the MAC, such as option 3, 4, and 5. Option 6 just sounds weird...don't like it.
Maybe for Option 2, in addition to Marines being able to build a ghost structure at a reduced rate, only the MAC can repair. I'd still like to see MACs as the only thing that can drop a ghost.
Keep in mind, if we do anything besides option 1, the Gorge will need to be revisited as well, because this will cause a severe imbalance.
Marines can help build, but MACs are better
Marines can help build as well as the MAC
Comm can place w/o a MAC and Marines can Build [NS1 + MACs]
Upgrade/Item allows Marines to build
Deployable Buildings/MACs [carried as equipment]
Well, the option 2 and 5 are the best i think for strategy and gameplay. the other will make obselete mac. if com can drop building without MAC that's becom like ns1.
Mac must be realy prescious to marine team, marine should escort and protec MAC, but i think marine must help a bit for build.
so i say option 5 with a low cost an a easy acess of this option for com.
in this case com will have two choice , save res in begin game or buy it for a quick expension or wait late in the game for buy it.
Although you could probably streamline it a bit by also allowing the comm to place structures without selecting a mac and have the nearest one go to build it.
But I really would rather not have marines building things, I never liked doing it in NS and don't want to have to do it in NS2.
my 2 cents
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->how u gonna build something without a welder? MACs can weld/build, so welder = handheld MAC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
touching was required to avoid grey goo scenarios storywise while it also created tension and team oriented gameplay (cover your defenseless buddies or help them build faster).
There seems to be a contingent of folks who really want to make themselves vulnerable for a time but don't seem to have enough imagination to be able to pull it off unless they're actually building something, so for them I'd consider adding a bit of option 2, marines can help a mac that's actually building, but at a much much *much* slower pace.. as in it'd be better to have 2 MACs working than one MAC and four or five marines.
Commander drops a ghost that can be built by either a MAC or a marine with equipment, marines without the equipment can assist (slowly) once the building is started
- this option allows for the marines to 'bluff', since the aliens don't know if any marines have a build kit. You might be crippled by losing a MAC, but then, you might not. The aliens just wouldn't know...
edit: I guess this is basically option 5, fleshed out a bit
I'd like to see the MAC balanced so that it's not a huge target unless it's caught by itself. If you have 4 marines and a MAC when you get ambushed, the MAC should be the last to die. (should be a mixture of armor and being a low priority target) Heck, if I'm a marine, I'd even want the option to use the MAC for cover...
marines building at a third or quarter rate, but only MAC's can place buildings
unless that's what you meant in #2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This. :D
Cheers,
Cody
my 2 cents<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this post clearly represents why we need to specifically define build and construct or some other terms. Option 5 is "Marines can DROP structures" whereas option 2 is the once they're dropped they can be built. Reading over all the posts in the 10 different threads, I think we need to start defining or specifying what we mean, since it seems to be causing a lot of confusion for some people.
Convert a MAC into a small movable armory (just for ammo).
Must it, though? Can't it just be really useful without also being the backbone of marine strategies?
That being said, I can't decide between 3 and 4. I don't want the MAC to be left by the roadside, either.
<!--quoteo(post=1791070:date=Aug 3 2010, 06:51 PM:name=Walfisch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Walfisch @ Aug 3 2010, 06:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791070"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think this post clearly represents why we need to specifically define build and construct or some other terms. Option 5 is "Marines can DROP structures" whereas option 2 is the once they're dropped they can be built. Reading over all the posts in the 10 different threads, I think we need to start defining or specifying what we mean, since it seems to be causing a lot of confusion for some people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I noticed this too, looks like we need programming-like exactness. Maybe this?:
<ol type='1'><li>Only MACs can place and construct buildings</li><li>MACs can place and construct, marines can help construct</li><li>Commander places buildings, MACs and marines can help construct</li></ol>
...with additional sub-options that can be mixed and matched:
<ol type='A'><li>Marines must carry some item to help construct</li><li>Commander must research tech before marines can help construct</li><li>Marines can pick up and carry MACs</li><li>Marines build at a different speed than MACs</li></ol>
I think I'd go for 3+D (MACs build at 2x rate), or 2 on its own.
The new mobile siege tanks already will already make for some excellent "escort"-type gameplay. I do not, however, want to go around babysitting MACs if they ever want to build something in dangerous territory. Thus I think marines should be able to build stuff on their own. MACs would be useful, however, for tending to the main base, which is something that few players typically want to do. Plus, I do think marine-building adds excellent tension and teamwork, as discussed in the other thread.
PS, the MAC says absolutely silly things. <3