Development Blog Update - Friday update - Lerk reveal

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  • noncomposmentisnoncomposmentis Join Date: 2004-11-13 Member: 32773Members Posts: 342
    edited February 2010
    QUOTE (Pipi @ Feb 26 2010, 03:44 PM) »
    This concept terrifying.

    scary img

    I fixed your typo.

    QUOTE (Jiriki @ Feb 26 2010, 04:40 PM) »
    I completely disagree. I used to play back in 1.04 days and I still do competitively. Lerk v1.0 is dead boring compared to the 3.0 lerk which requires vertical aerial movement skills and ability to dodge bullets while trying to hit target. This is skillwise a lot more interesting than sitting in a vent and shooting from range. I could get you probably top 10 lerks to agree on this. Anyone can spore or spike from a vent but it takes talent to be effective in close combat with the bite.

    The main difference between v1 lerk and v3 lerk was the flight model. Being able to swoop and dive made lerk 10x as fun. The bite isn't really essential for that, especially if the spikes act like they sound, as a short distance machinegun type weapon, which would make strafing attacks MORE fun, IMO. Also, spikes in NS1 were pretty cheesy if you could aim well, eg getting beaned from across the room in Bast refinery by a lerk you can't even see, not something "anyone" could do considering the normal range of skill on pubs.
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  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,014
    Looking good! The model looks good, but I think the eyes need a little work. They need to look a little more reptilian.

    I'm a little bummed that bite is being replaced with spikes. I liked NS1 servers that had BOTH bite and spikes enabled. Bite with focus was so fun to play with. Hope you reconsider. The sniper-type alt-fire just seems like a cop-out...it needs to be something different. Maybe impale: the spikes extend out further, and it does damage as a function of speed...sort of like the onos charge. The lerk needs some kind of mele weapon.
  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members Posts: 3,543 Fully active user
    edited February 2010
    apart from lerk lift, what about bile bomb ? :) (remember when the fade used to have it lol)


    also lerk melee vs marine melee? :)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-PJHhK4GKI...feature=related
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  • ChuckstarNLChuckstarNL Join Date: 2003-11-23 Member: 23446Members Posts: 138
    edited February 2010
    I don't think anyone mentioned yet that marines have holographic visors. :P
    image
    Also, the framerate looks a lot smoother than in the gameplay vid!
  • SirotSirot Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58851Members Posts: 553
    I dislike the idea of lurk being able to "snipe" because I feel that long range accuracy is something the marines should have a monopoly on. Lerks not being able to bite also seems kind of odd, but I can get past it.
  • yodayoda Join Date: 2003-11-27 Member: 23619Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 190 Fully active user
    I like the new (old) lork.

    I think for secondary fire for spore should be like a condensed spore blob that sticks to stuff and then pops little bloblets out that stick to other stuff. Like the biogun in UT.

    Or maybe it pops when someone comes near to it (proximity gas mine). - This is probably the best because its not so OP.

    Or perhaps used to dive bomb marine structures.

    Anyhow awesome works as usual cant wait to see the transparency in the webbing. Will hive membranes holding it up and the window to the floaties inside it be transparent too?
  • SirotSirot Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58851Members Posts: 553
    Also, Lerks who are flying really fast that collide with a Marine should do a headbutt to deal some damage and knock them back a little. Would make walking cross-walks over abysses a lot more interested.
  • JonwahJonwah Join Date: 2009-11-02 Member: 69223Members Posts: 6
    I want to know what kind of crazy creature attacked the lerk so that it has exactly the same (mirrored) rips in his wings ;) cmon now uwe, thats a bit slack :P
  • culpritculprit Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33527Members, Constellation Posts: 311 Fully active user
    The lerk certainly needs a 'striking' attack for direct hits on marines and structures. My solution would be a impact/melee range attack when the 'sniping' mode is unzoomed. This would be a the regular ~50 dmg sniper shot but adding extra damage for velocity toward the target.

    I like the idea of the spikes being individual projectiles. The snipe mode would be roughly equivalent to the 'huntsman' bow, and the regular rapid fire like the syringe-gun. If dmg is always increased by higher velocity toward the target, the lerk could have some very interesting dogfights with JPers.

    As for the spore alt-fire, a lerk-lift could be a nice addition. Lots of possibilities that could get silly or complex to balance though. Another option would be a rear-area spore-like debuff or DoT. This would be cool if stackable. That way you could lay down a spore along with another effect, but it would require you to make a pass in the middle of the action.
  • BubbaHoTepBubbaHoTep Join Date: 2005-04-01 Member: 47195Members Posts: 2
    I like how his/hers beak and head look elongated like a Pterosaur on the video.
  • CruorCruor Join Date: 2004-11-07 Member: 32677Members Posts: 156
    Lerk looks amazing loving it. In the video near the end I can't help but think the bone beak and spike launchers could do some major damage if ramming a marine head on, the boney reinforced spinal cord could further strengthen this that the lerk can and does make ramming attacks al la medieval jousting.

    An interesting possibility for spore secondary would be launching a chemically different cloud which isn't caustic as much as it is highly flammable and reactive, so fireing your weapon inside of it would be a bad idea, but it would only be a low chance for normal lmg or pistol fire to ignite the cloud, however the big stuff like HMG, GL and the flamethrower or even using the Jetpack in this cloud would definently set it off and then do a medium-large amount of damage to anyone caught inside of it. It would basically be the Lerk's version of grenades, mines or grenade launcher put together, only it would be set off by the enemy.
  • SgtPrinnySgtPrinny Join Date: 2009-08-18 Member: 68526Members Posts: 15
    QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Feb 26 2010, 01:17 PM) »
    I've always hated that Marines with Heavy Armor aren't affected by Spore at all. Sure, its probably a sealed environment, but Oxygen tanks have got to run out eventually, meaning the marine would have to refill it, or come out of his suit for air (or if it isn't sealed and he just has a gas mask then...). One could argue that "nanites" obviously purifies the Oxygen so here is a suggestion: Either make Heavy Armored marines take a lot less damage from Spores than un-armored marines, or the Spores have a natural desire to bind with Oxygen. Heavy Armored marines have an Oxygen health meter that doesn't give them limited Oxygen but acts as a health bar for their Oxygen tank. The extremely strong affinity for both the Spore and Oxygen to bind results in extra pressure on the Oxygen tank which does damage over time to the Oxygen tank. When it reaches critical levels, the Oxygen tank bursts (and possibly does damage to the heavy armor?) and the marine is vulnerable to the usual effect of spores once again.


    When you think about the fact that spore damages armor too, the thought that it does damage because it's being breathed in kinda makes no sense. If it damages the armor, then why is the heavy immune? you could argue that there's some kind of coating on the heavy, but then why could they not apply that coating on normal marine armor too?

    or did the half-life engine just not allow you to ignore armor when damage is done?
  • RessurectedRessurected Join Date: 2005-06-30 Member: 55014Members Posts: 1
    QUOTE (Flayra @ Feb 26 2010, 01:37 PM) »
    Please post comments on the topic Development Blog Update - Friday update - Lerk reveal here
    Perhaps the alternate spore fire could be a thickened version of the gas making it become acid like and melting down the marines armor.
  • chisschiss Join Date: 2008-06-05 Member: 64395Members, Constellation Posts: 124
    I think the alt-fire for spore should be some kind of 'acid napalm' thing.

    Bascially you fly over marines or structures and dump out a thick cloud/liquid of spore which burns through armor rapidly.
  • FooFoo Join Date: 2003-07-31 Member: 18632Members Posts: 70
  • killer monkeykiller monkey Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 570 Fully active user
    i think lerk is perfect except like said before the eye must look more reptilian
  • echsechs Join Date: 2002-12-27 Member: 11568Members, Constellation Posts: 409 Fully active user
    Fantastic news about the Lerk having its role changed, to be a primary range class is great, and suits the lerk much better then getting up close with it's frail frame. The big problem I have with Lerk now more so than in NS1, is that since they can no longer bite, their spores is going to be more important to the lerk in NS2 but I do worry that HA will nullify it, in NS1, least you can fly up close and chomp at them. I reckon the secondary on Spore should be an acidic cloud which does corrosive damage against metals/armour (but I can't think how to balance this against structures), the idea being that it's more effective against the slow moving HA since you can't spam it like you can with Sprores, whereas light armour marines can just sprint away from the acidic cloud before succumbing to serious harm, the HA can only walk away from it.

    Or perhaps the secondary could spew out a black cloud, dampening marine vision temporarily.

    Then again, now the Lerk is removed from melee range combat and is now back to medium and long range combat, those Spikes are going to be pesky to the HA I hope. :)
    Honelith
  • S_BadguyS_Badguy Join Date: 2003-12-03 Member: 23925Members Posts: 153
    Having the lerk spores being completely voided by an item (heavy armor) in the game is a really poor idea. You end up invalidating a whole ability for the aliens by doing this. The spores should either do damage to heavy armor equipped marines if they have no visible re-breather system or have alternative fire for spores be an attack which does not AOE DOT but do a direct application of a DOT and it affect armored targets.
  • Me9aMe9a Join Date: 2008-03-27 Member: 63981Members Posts: 87 Fully active user
    why remove UMBRA its an teamplay skill
    and i hope teamplay will be still important

    player skillllevel is for sure important but rather have better teamplayers then player highskiller without teamplay
    so teamplayer skills are IMPORTANT like UMBRA

    possible solution: give spore the abtility of umbra too spore that takes bullets and kills marines
  • BubbaHoTepBubbaHoTep Join Date: 2005-04-01 Member: 47195Members Posts: 2
    An odd idea for the spore Alt is one that works with the spores. What if the Alt fire was a type of chemical or pheromone the reacted with the the spores and making them go crazy (doing more dmg per second) but then "burn/die out" after. Kind of like shooting a flair into a cloud of gas. Now they wound not blow up like an explosion. They would just do what they usually do, just faster then die.

    But with that you would have to have the Alt have an effect on it own I would think.


    I hope I was able to explain what I meant.
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation Posts: 4,022 Fully active user
    edited February 2010
    QUOTE (S_Badguy @ Feb 26 2010, 09:37 PM) »
    Having the lerk spores being completely voided by an item (heavy armor) in the game is a really poor idea. You end up invalidating a whole ability for the aliens by doing this. The spores should either do damage to heavy armor equipped marines if they have no visible re-breather system or have alternative fire for spores be an attack which does not AOE DOT but do a direct application of a DOT and it affect armored targets.

    That's a good insight Sol Badguy, but I don't think it's entirely necessary. Lerks will still have two types of spikes and presumably a third ability. It's not like AoE spores is very skill based anyway so noob armor defeating noob tactics is not really unreasonable.

    Edit: After more consideration, there's no reason we should strive for the ideal of no useless abilities(even if ineffective). The alt-fire ignitable spore with reduced/no dmg I suggested earlier fits this paradigm.
    QUOTE (Flayra @ Mar 28 2007, 09:21 PM) »
    It's not an easy balance to achieve, but we do want to make a game that will be both the best competitive game since Starcraft and also one that many people can enjoy casually without being in a clan or an experienced or knowledgeable NS player. That's the goal at least!


    - NS in game name - tilde - My Steam Id Page - .
  • NEX9NEX9 Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44299Members Posts: 1,642
    we dont know if they are moving away from hive 3 -4 ability's, they haven't really mentioned too much on hive 3 4 ability's i think they may of in the onos reveal

    alt fire for spore oxygen suficator the lerk is ranged but what makes him put his life on the line, imagine him spiting a few spore clouds flying into them putting him closer to the marine and alt firing. what happens next would be beautiful rapidly expanding out from the lerk is a black cloud like ash or soot that consumes the spore cloud as it envelops around a marine it gushes into his lungs consuming the oxygen. as appose to a damage over time its a burst of instant damage. as long as there is spore cloud it will keep spreading and consuming. great for temp disabling jet pack spore were jp is flying alt fire in spore cloud when jp flys through it jp stalls. in all its kinda like a lurk flame thrower but obviously doesn't effect DI, HA. but effects jp and could just be that suicidal run that saves the team as the med spam arives.

    my other idea your playing with fog in the hive room. what about a low lining fog the settles around marine chest high
    they can barely see gorges just the tip of his back spikes sticking through, skulks near invisible. how ever a marine ducking would be hazed would see skulks gorges but wouldn't see lurks flying or fades blinking over the top of cloud, plenty of cloud swirlys. i don't know i think people would find a way to client side hack through visual effects and hindrances though
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  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,727
    Biggest disappointment of 2010, at least so far. I hope, pray even, that the news that follow are better or at least that the devs realize that they're going down the wrong path during the alpha. Every bit of info that comes out about the NS2 gameplay, makes me more pessimistic.

    I just don't understand it. Why wouldn't you learn from the development of NS1? Why would you go back to the old Lerk, when the 3.0+ Lerk was far superior in every aspect of gameplay? Admittedly, this isn't just about the Lerk. The bad news are just piling on and I fear for this game. I could try to make some kind of argument out of this post, but honestly, I feel about ready to give up. Right now, it looks like the graphics will be the only reason to play NS2 instead of NS1.



    PS. Why has the "General Discussion" board turned into I&S? Most threads are unreadable because of all the terrible ideas being spammed.
  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Members, Constellation Posts: 1,206
    edited February 2010
    QUOTE (Jonwah @ Feb 26 2010, 07:07 PM) »
    I want to know what kind of crazy creature attacked the lerk so that it has exactly the same (mirrored) rips in his wings ;) cmon now uwe, thats a bit slack :P

    Y'know I thought I was the only one to notice this! Was a tad obvious they just mirrored the wing. They should just ditch wing-rips as it looks too earth-batty and makes the Lerk appear too individualistic and not a part of a symbiotic hive mind that is regenerative.

    edit: also noticed a lot of suggestions for alt-fire, some similar to: http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=108976
    "Why can i never be a SKUL or an ONOS why am i always a REIN?" - me, NS 1.0
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  • naughty_skulkernaughty_skulker Join Date: 2003-08-31 Member: 20411Members Posts: 26
    I really like the design of the Lerk ! It's my fav so far of the new aliens.

    Love the animations in the movie when it drops and lands, also the "batman" style shadow drop at the start + matching sounds was sweet :P

    Really solid work on the Lerk ;)
  • naughty_skulkernaughty_skulker Join Date: 2003-08-31 Member: 20411Members Posts: 26
    Oh and I particularly liked the bulbous growth on it's head :D
  • EvilSmooEvilSmoo Join Date: 2008-02-16 Member: 63662Members Posts: 614 Advanced user
    It all sounds good. :D

    The ABSOLUTE WORST thing I can think of about the Lerk design is that it looks too heavy for that ratio of windspan to body mass. And that's not terribly important.

    I do think that an umbra alt-fire involving perching and dropping a nastier bomb might be pretty good. Bombing runs too, since they're kinda fragile, and it's a fair risk flying into an enemy base and dropping a bomb, versus just dodging out and plinking away. Risk vs reward, risk turrets and marines shredding you, get rewarded with a bomb like gorge bombs.

    And as far as heavy armor immunity to umbra, it makes sense. I'm fairly certain the tech exists NOW to rebreathe air for hours, much less in a space-capable tech time.
  • biological_componentbiological_component Join Date: 2006-12-04 Member: 58895Members, Constellation Posts: 8
    I would like to see the lerk alt-fire being "black slime" that slows down the marines and/or blurs their vision. Perhaps it jams their radar so they cant track aliens/friendlys, or better yet, make it interfere with their structures, like say it clogs up turrets and whatnot. (decrease rate of fire on marines weapons, blocks transmissions, something along those lines)
  • uselessuseless Join Date: 2009-02-15 Member: 66428Members Posts: 8
    Looks nice! The "crest" thing on its head is a little big for my tastes, but I'll probably get used to it.

    Spore Cloud alternate ideas:

    1) Smoke screen, centered on the Lerk. It's cloud-themed (like Spore Cloud), and gives the presumably fragile Lerk a good escape mechanism. NO Umbra-like effect, just obscures vision very well and very quickly, but also dissipates quickly. Might even see skilled Lerks use it in the middle of battle as they change directions.

    2) Spore proximity mines, to give the Lerk some additional support/defensive strength. Maybe one mine deployed at a time, and the Lerk (and possibly other Kharaa) knows when it's triggered.
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