<!--quoteo(post=1673435:date=Mar 17 2008, 06:01 AM:name=Steve0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Steve0 @ Mar 17 2008, 06:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1673435"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well i dont have any money but heres my advise. Dont go to consoles or make ns2 for console, Look at EPIC and UT3 ... so much failure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... on the PC. Good sales on console. That's why CliffyB keeps putting the PC down. His argument was that it's the PC at fault and that sales will be better on console due to reduced piracy.
I don't have a console myself though, so I'm with Steve0 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Congratulations! I've been a long time fan of NS1 and played competitively during late 1.0 and through to the end of 2.0 . Truly one of the most gripping and unique experiences of my gaming "career" - lol. I definitely admire you guys for trying to pull this off with little to no resources, but I'm sure this new investment that is backing your project should definitely help you guys in big ways. Good luck and I'll be one of the first to be clicking BUY NOW on NS2 through Steam!
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1673293:date=Mar 15 2008, 06:54 AM:name=Angelusz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Angelusz @ Mar 15 2008, 06:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1673293"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Congratulations! It was about time someone took heart to your vision and came through. Now, give them constie icons and access to our forums and you're good. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think they'll want to show them the forums. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Great news. It's really exciting to hear that you guys have enough funding to get this thing done. New artists mean more concept art WHOO!
OT: Are you planning on auctioning off any of the concept art?
urinalcakeCan't work a sound cardUnited StatesJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7799Members
Coming from someone who knows what its like to manage a group of people working on projects for free, while they work other jobs for income, I can tell you that I have only dreamt at night of the feeling Charlie is having right now. Countless nights have I planned an office, it's layout, who of my team could be brought on to start working on what, and when, the list goes on. But now Charlie is living that dream.
Working at RedStorm Entertainment after my time at Epic Games has taught me a lot about the industry as a whole, but that desire to build something ground up will never die in my heart. This is just a confirmation for me, a la when Introversion worked their way up to their offices, that with patience and hard work, your goals can become reality.
Congratulations on the investors! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Looking forward to more frequent and bigger updates <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Unless your investments are substantial, isn't investing in an office wasting money? Or is that part of the contractional agreement for receiving the funds?
You've managed fairly well so far developing NS and NS2 without an "Office", I don't see how difficult it would be to adapt what you've been doing to work with more people.
Well Digz, it depends on whether they are renting or buying and if they are buy then buying out right is great and loans are not on account of the current economic crisis stuff. But I see what you are getting at with offices and housing in general so much more expensive than say like the city I live in. (Louisville, KY)
Just listening to this podcast makes me want to help the team...
<!--quoteo(post=1673452:date=Mar 17 2008, 02:40 PM:name=Argh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Argh @ Mar 17 2008, 02:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1673452"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... on the PC. Good sales on console. That's why CliffyB keeps putting the PC down. His argument was that it's the PC at fault and that sales will be better on console due to reduced piracy.
I don't have a console myself though, so I'm with Steve0 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Yes it does make good sales</b> , but when your games <b>Entire player base comes from the PC (NS1)</b> , its better to keep it that way. On the other hand s<b>elling out to consoles is also a good way to kill your franchise</b> (Unreal Tournament 3) , no one plays it. I really and truly recommend to Unknown Worlds that they keep it for the PC for the time beeing, if it goes console it will just get dumbed down like all games on pc/console... <b>the consoles drag it down.</b>
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1673530:date=Mar 18 2008, 03:05 PM:name=Steve0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Steve0 @ Mar 18 2008, 03:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1673530"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Yes it does make good sales</b> , but when your games <b>Entire player base comes from the PC (NS1)</b> , its better to keep it that way. On the other hand s<b>elling out to consoles is also a good way to kill your franchise</b> (Unreal Tournament 3) , no one plays it. I really and truly recommend to Unknown Worlds that they keep it for the PC for the time being, if it goes console it will just get dumbed down like all games on pc/console... <b>the consoles drag it down.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> While I would like to point out that UT3 is doing just fine, I think that consoles do objectively drag down the quality of PC games. PC games, especially FPS and RTS games, rely on the availability of a mouse and keyboard and when those tools aren't there designers are forced to each remove or tone down the control of features. I can always tell when a game has a console heritage because the controls just feel wrong.
i think even with funding it would be an economic gamble to go console atm. But if ns2 sells well on pc it could generate the cash to go for a console version. I dont see how a console version of the game could hurt unless it affected the development of the original pc version.
Forget about consoles, some games aren't meant for consoles. Just think it through first. In today's world, people are very loyal to developers and it takes one game to ruin their reputation. With games, its not just a matter of making a bit more money (if it bombs - oh well, if it succeeds - great). Companies also need to put their asses on the line. Would you consider buying another product from a company that undelivered? Probably not. Why do you think Blizzard works its ass off. They set their bar high, and keep wanting to set it higher. They want to keep their fan base, thus they'll continue to deliver great games, thus they will not make games for consoles. UWE should adopt the same strategy. If a game is truly great, then you won't need a console counterpart to compensate. You'll have plenty of people playing it on PC.
Besides, imagine shooting a leaping skulk with a controller in your hand. It's hard as it is with a mouse, how the hell will you track it with a thumbstick? In addition, RTSs always suffered on consoles in general, because controls are just too complicated due to limited number of buttons. (Hold RT and LT to activate a second layer of the menu...some crap like that)
<!--quoteo(post=1673562:date=Mar 18 2008, 11:27 PM:name=cerberus5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cerberus5 @ Mar 18 2008, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1673562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Besides, imagine shooting a leaping skulk with a controller in your hand. It's hard as it is with a mouse, how the hell will you track it with a thumbstick?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he's right, can you imagine playing NS with auto-aim? it would just feel wrong...
UW should stick to PC's and keep their reputation intact.
<!--quoteo(post=1673536:date=Mar 18 2008, 07:27 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Mar 18 2008, 07:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1673536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While I would like to point out that UT3 is doing just fine, I think that consoles do objectively drag down the quality of PC games. PC games, especially FPS and RTS games, rely on the availability of a mouse and keyboard and when those tools aren't there designers are forced to each remove or tone down the control of features. I can always tell when a game has a console heritage because the controls just feel wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it really isnt , go round and look at all the tournaments and stuff at LANs , theres hardley any what so ever , it sold alot in the begining and then it came slowly and steady to only a few here and there. Reason beeing , its just not like the other UT games , UT2k4 was ok , but UT99 was the best and they tried to make it like 99 but had consoles in there eyes too. The game is much slower paced then 99/2k4. Ive spoken to a few Professional gamers one beeing 2gd from fnatic (manager) even he says it dead. I can think of 3 players off the top of my head that will go to LAN , thats Frantic / Zacubus and Tewic all from dignatas and they even said the game is ######.
yeah I definitely agree that UT3 has died. If you launch the game right now and check online, You'd be suprised at the lack of dedicated servers and players. Don't get me wrong, its a beautiful game and pretty good too. However, It doesn't pull me in to want to keep playing, not sure why. UT2004 still has a pretty big player base still all PC users! But yeah UT3 was pretty much pushed for consoles in the first place
Deadlines don't have to be bad. And taking an office for the final straight is a great idea. Do you plan on inviting NS community members to the office for 'virgin playtesting' like Valve do?
Kind of rhetorical to say congratulations by now but, congratulations, I must say I am somewhat envious. This is great news for me personaly because I havent touched a pc-game or a PC (i use a mac now) since counter-strike 1 and Natural Selection. I used to run a server cs and ns(for a couple weeks all hail the SR Steel Reign server Sr-N'stuff commanding aka myself) i was 15 working for a web hosting/design company(should say running the linux boxes), using their excess space to run the game server. Either way it was a fond point in my childhood that I miss. And hearng this news makes me excited again about ns-2, afterall your first game was in my opinion one of the best conceptual ideas for gameplay other than some of the greats like starcraft, sim city, civilization etc... But what really made me love the game was that it was sci-fi based, but it wasnt some cheasy rip off of star wars or star trek or alien vrs predator etc, Natural Selection looked and felt like a Gamers Game and being a half life mod it really was only accessable to gamers gamers. And Even though there was no single player and no story behind ns1 really, the instant you stepped into the world you new exactly where you were. so i Wish you guys best of luck with these newly secured funds to hopefully reach not only all those old ns fans, but a whole new generation of hardcore gamers and casual fans, and expand upon the ns world, and hopefully secure an ns-3. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--coloro:#8B0000--><span style="color:#8B0000"><!--/coloro-->I do have one question, what does this mean for the future of UW? are you guys kind of hinging everything on ns-2? or are their new ideas in the works? I know classified right? well i am just curious because i've listend to a lot of podcasts, and heard there was some talk of getting away from the first person shooter genre, just wondering if there was going to be any development on that front. Love to hear your ideas for other styles of games! <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
cant wat to fire up roger wilco and get gaming
and a big congrats to the art guys that got hired, wish u much luck, and future prosperity to a company very long in development.
<!--quoteo(post=1673663:date=Mar 19 2008, 11:17 PM:name=thecowsaysmoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(thecowsaysmoo @ Mar 19 2008, 11:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1673663"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do have one question, what does this mean for the future of UW? are you guys kind of hinging everything on ns-2? or are their new ideas in the works? I know classified right? well i am just curious because i've listend to a lot of podcasts, and heard there was some talk of getting away from the first person shooter genre, just wondering if there was going to be any development on that front. Love to hear your ideas for other styles of games!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I think their main income will be from NS2, with additional income from Decoder now they have their Xbox middleware license. Basically everything hinges on NS2, but I can't see NS2 being a flop with such a strong community behind it, and the ability to sell over Steam with day zero piracy protection.
The extra stuff they have developed for viewing models/texture 'in-game' in Valve Hammer they might be able to sell, but I think they have already said they will just make this free for all to use.
I can only agree to dnleech: NS 1 was one of the best gaming experiences I ever had. I played it competetively from 1.2 until 2.0 (in the ESL). Even if NS2 will "only" be NS1 with nicer graphics (which I seriously doubt) I am going to purchase it. Just let me know,when Ican order a copy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Cmon guys, think like a game designer. Sure NS2 should definately be on PC, but maybe a spinoff game could be released for console (like a 2D action game for XBLive Arcade). I'm sure fans would be interested in cool stuff from the NS universe.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1673745:date=Mar 20 2008, 02:20 PM:name=Daxed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Daxed @ Mar 20 2008, 02:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1673745"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cmon guys, think like a game designer. Sure NS2 should definately be on PC, but maybe a spinoff game could be released for console (like a 2D action game for XBLive Arcade). I'm sure fans would be interested in cool stuff from the NS universe.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think <b>Steve0</b> has a valid point that the NS fans are the ones who played it on PC. I think a console port or more likely spinoff would be great. The backlash would be to designing NS2 with the console in mind. I don't think this is something that NS enthusiasts really have to worry about since the devs are all ready a good chunk done with designing the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1673749:date=Mar 20 2008, 01:34 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Mar 20 2008, 01:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1673749"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think <b>Steve0</b> has a valid point that the NS fans are the ones who played it on PC. I think a console port or more likely spinoff would be great. The backlash would be to designing NS2 with the console in mind. I don't think this is something that NS enthusiasts really have to worry about since the devs are all ready a good chunk done with designing the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They could always get a updated version Zen of Sudoku and other games like it out. I think the success of games like Peggle and Audiosurf show that casual gaming doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't appeal to the kind of gamer that like NS1.
Heck, from what I remember of the proposed price point of NS2 (about $20 right?) then there is no way I wouldn't buy it, just on good will from the NS1 mod alone, and if they were to combine that with my irresistible urges to buy good games that are $10 or less (It costs more to rent a couple DVDs or go see a movie or buy a book, the comparable entertainment value is just too good to pass up)...
I think Orange Box also shows a certain desire of gamers to seek out what could be perceived as bargains for gamer's games: HL2Ep2, Portal, TF2 ... and special Peggle? I honestly question someone's sanity if they did not see the incredible value of Orange Box.
What if there was a Zen of Sudoku + NS2 deal? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Comments
... on the PC. Good sales on console. That's why CliffyB keeps putting the PC down. His argument was that it's the PC at fault and that sales will be better on console due to reduced piracy.
I don't have a console myself though, so I'm with Steve0 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
i hope you hooked up with some decent people.
and get cranking
no more podcasts until you have something sexy :-)
I don't think they'll want to show them the forums. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Great news. It's really exciting to hear that you guys have enough funding to get this thing done. New artists mean more concept art WHOO!
OT: Are you planning on auctioning off any of the concept art?
Working at RedStorm Entertainment after my time at Epic Games has taught me a lot about the industry as a whole, but that desire to build something ground up will never die in my heart. This is just a confirmation for me, a la when Introversion worked their way up to their offices, that with patience and hard work, your goals can become reality.
Congratulations man.
Looking forward to more frequent and bigger updates <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
You've managed fairly well so far developing NS and NS2 without an "Office", I don't see how difficult it would be to adapt what you've been doing to work with more people.
Just listening to this podcast makes me want to help the team...
I don't have a console myself though, so I'm with Steve0 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Yes it does make good sales</b> , but when your games <b>Entire player base comes from the PC (NS1)</b> , its better to keep it that way. On the other hand s<b>elling out to consoles is also a good way to kill your franchise</b> (Unreal Tournament 3) , no one plays it. I really and truly recommend to Unknown Worlds that they keep it for the PC for the time beeing, if it goes console it will just get dumbed down like all games on pc/console... <b>the consoles drag it down.</b>
While I would like to point out that UT3 is doing just fine, I think that consoles do objectively drag down the quality of PC games. PC games, especially FPS and RTS games, rely on the availability of a mouse and keyboard and when those tools aren't there designers are forced to each remove or tone down the control of features. I can always tell when a game has a console heritage because the controls just feel wrong.
Besides, imagine shooting a leaping skulk with a controller in your hand. It's hard as it is with a mouse, how the hell will you track it with a thumbstick? In addition, RTSs always suffered on consoles in general, because controls are just too complicated due to limited number of buttons. (Hold RT and LT to activate a second layer of the menu...some crap like that)
he's right, can you imagine playing NS with auto-aim? it would just feel wrong...
UW should stick to PC's and keep their reputation intact.
No it really isnt , go round and look at all the tournaments and stuff at LANs , theres hardley any what so ever , it sold alot in the begining and then it came slowly and steady to only a few here and there. Reason beeing , its just not like the other UT games , UT2k4 was ok , but UT99 was the best and they tried to make it like 99 but had consoles in there eyes too. The game is much slower paced then 99/2k4. Ive spoken to a few Professional gamers one beeing 2gd from fnatic (manager) even he says it dead. I can think of 3 players off the top of my head that will go to LAN , thats Frantic / Zacubus and Tewic all from dignatas and they even said the game is ######.
You have to become an approved developer or some such then pay for dev kits etc etc...
I'm not to sure what source is like on console hardware...
Oh then your going to need a publisher for the distribution etc etc
Unless your working on a title with a multi-million dollar budget the console thing is not worth it...
Deadlines don't have to be bad. And taking an office for the final straight is a great idea. Do you plan on inviting NS community members to the office for 'virgin playtesting' like Valve do?
<!--coloro:#8B0000--><span style="color:#8B0000"><!--/coloro-->I do have one question, what does this mean for the future of UW? are you guys kind of hinging everything on ns-2? or are their new ideas in the works? I know classified right? well i am just curious because i've listend to a lot of podcasts, and heard there was some talk of getting away from the first person shooter genre, just wondering if there was going to be any development on that front. Love to hear your ideas for other styles of games! <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
cant wat to fire up roger wilco and get gaming
and a big congrats to the art guys that got hired, wish u much luck, and future prosperity to a company very long in development.
The extra stuff they have developed for viewing models/texture 'in-game' in Valve Hammer they might be able to sell, but I think they have already said they will just make this free for all to use.
Keep it up,
CHD a.k.a dust|protagonist
I think <b>Steve0</b> has a valid point that the NS fans are the ones who played it on PC. I think a console port or more likely spinoff would be great. The backlash would be to designing NS2 with the console in mind. I don't think this is something that NS enthusiasts really have to worry about since the devs are all ready a good chunk done with designing the game.
They could always get a updated version Zen of Sudoku and other games like it out. I think the success of games like Peggle and Audiosurf show that casual gaming doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't appeal to the kind of gamer that like NS1.
Heck, from what I remember of the proposed price point of NS2 (about $20 right?) then there is no way I wouldn't buy it, just on good will from the NS1 mod alone, and if they were to combine that with my irresistible urges to buy good games that are $10 or less (It costs more to rent a couple DVDs or go see a movie or buy a book, the comparable entertainment value is just too good to pass up)...
I think Orange Box also shows a certain desire of gamers to seek out what could be perceived as bargains for gamer's games: HL2Ep2, Portal, TF2 ... and special Peggle? I honestly question someone's sanity if they did not see the incredible value of Orange Box.
What if there was a Zen of Sudoku + NS2 deal? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />