<!--quoteo(post=1648917:date=Sep 11 2007, 11:50 PM:name=MedHead)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MedHead @ Sep 11 2007, 11:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648917"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I avoid buying games off Steam for the same reason I avoided buying Bioshock: the DRM. But if someone gives me the game for free, I'll take it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lucky me, haven't played Episode 1 yet, gonna do that in about 10 minutes, when the download finishes. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I loved the Engineer video. Right down to the beer "Blue Streak." It was wonderfully done. The timing was excellent, especially with the short pause and grin after "use more guns."
<!--quoteo(post=1648905:date=Sep 12 2007, 05:07 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Sep 12 2007, 05:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648905"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Half-Life 2 really isn't about the plot. The storytelling is something a lot of people love about it, but frankly I think even that isn't as great as it could be. What I like is the shooter elements, the graphics, the amazing art, the animation, the sound design; basically the world. The plot's just as silly as the first game and reveals even less, but if I wanted plot I could play something like Bioshock.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to derail, but I think people are really over emphasising Bioshock's qualities. I may not be very far through it but it's really nothing new in terms of plot, and certainly doesn't have any more "universe" building story, less I'd say, than the Half Life saga has done through all it's so far released 5 games.
On topic again, So what if the orange box is $45 (it was $53 for me) including games I already own. To get half life episode 2, portal, and TF2 (ignoring Peggle) for effectively around £30 is a bargain by any means, and to get Half life 2 and ep 1 if you've never played them makes it as good as free in my eyes.
<!--quoteo(post=1648855:date=Sep 12 2007, 01:45 AM:name=enf0rcer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(enf0rcer @ Sep 12 2007, 01:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648855"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I doubt it really matters that the dates coincide. The people who play FF are the ones who know about it now, that fact won't changed just because of the mod release date. Probably the same number of people will try the mod regardless of TF2. Then after playing both the divide occurs, the one that was inevitable even if TF2 was released months down the road. The better game is the one that will be played, and the publicity of TF2 can't leech players who don't even know about FF.
Dunno if that was understandable, I'm too lazy to make it double plus good english.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
I have a low tolerance for single player FPS games. They all feel like 'duckhunt with animated backgrounds that tell boring stories'. I got into HL1 and gave up about half way through ( right after I had to go back into black mesa ). I got about 30 minutes into HL2. I didn't buy EP1, and I have no interest in EP2. I accept that all of these games are great in their genre, but the genre doesn't really appeal to me ( with the two notable exceptions being Alice and Bioshock )
So I don't want to buy EP2 *unless* I need to own it to to play mods that use the features introduced into the engine.
I do want to play portal and I'm interested in TF2, but I'm not sure I want to spend $50 on them. Maybe if I could sell my HL1, EP1 and EP2 keys to someone for $20 it'd be worth it.
If FF will be a "spiritual successor" to TFC in the sense that it'll be trickjumping, trickjumping and MORE trickjumping, I'll buy TF2 TWICE just to give FF the finger.
But for now, I will let YOU GUYS buy TF2 so you can then report to me whether it is worth my money. Better that you waste your money than I do. Minions, do my bidding!
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1648976:date=Sep 12 2007, 09:27 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Sep 12 2007, 09:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648976"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have a low tolerance for single player FPS games. They all feel like 'duckhunt with animated backgrounds that tell boring stories'. I got into HL1 and gave up about half way through ( right after I had to go back into black mesa ). I got about 30 minutes into HL2. I didn't buy EP1, and I have no interest in EP2. I accept that all of these games are great in their genre, but the genre doesn't really appeal to me ( with the two notable exceptions being Alice and Bioshock )
So I don't want to buy EP2 *unless* I need to own it to to play mods that use the features introduced into the engine.
I do want to play portal and I'm interested in TF2, but I'm not sure I want to spend $50 on them. Maybe if I could sell my HL1, EP1 and EP2 keys to someone for $20 it'd be worth it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately you can only give away EP1 and HL2. I don't think you need to own EP2 to get the new features as they build them into the HL1 engine (or at least they did with HDR, but then again, HDR was first in TLC)
<!--quoteo(post=1648977:date=Sep 12 2007, 09:27 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Sep 12 2007, 09:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648977"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If FF will be a "spiritual successor" to TFC in the sense that it'll be trickjumping, trickjumping and MORE trickjumping, I'll buy TF2 TWICE just to give FF the finger.
But for now, I will let YOU GUYS buy TF2 so you can then report to me whether it is worth my money. Better that you waste your money than I do. Minions, do my bidding!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They are both 'Spiritual Successors' to TF, and they both look good, and different.
FF focuses more on movement, trick jumps, and other things, However they have stated that they want to make them accessible to ALL players. Their goal is to remove the need for scripts and such to give you the edge by either including them or, more making the scripts pointless. EX: a +3jump is pointless in FF as you will instantly jump on landing so long as you have released and pressed jump when in the air.
I will probably play em both (much like I played TFC and WW), as I expect them to be different.
<!--quoteo(post=1648986:date=Sep 12 2007, 03:55 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Sep 12 2007, 03:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648986"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh, and Tycho's thread was better because I'm angry about the same things he is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tycho is angry about everything. So that does not count <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
btw: I will pre-order as soon as my paypal transfer is complete ^^
And portal better be good, or else I will come after them. And especially after THEM!
<!--quoteo(post=1648995:date=Sep 12 2007, 05:18 PM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Sep 12 2007, 05:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648995"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And portal better be good, or else I will come after them. And especially after THEM!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Damn my TF roots. And damn Valve if TF2 isn't infected with delicious. Oh well, at least I have a friend who doesn't own HL2, so the extra copy will be put to good use. I guess.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>grumble mumble silly little scythe doesn't even merge the threads because it's too confusing for his tiny little brain grumble mumble grumble</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Take 2:
Remember when Valve nixed the Black Box? I figured that was just to avoid confusion on retail shelves. Sell the Orange Box (HL2, Ep1, Ep2, TF2, and Portal) in stores, and then if you only want the three new things (Ep2, TF2, and Portal) you just buy the figurative Black Box on Steam. Made sense, right?
Yeah, well, apparently not to Valve. If you want Team Fortress 2, Episode 2, and Portal, have I got a deal for you! <a href="http://steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=package&SubId=469&cc=US" target="_blank">You can buy them individually for 80 bucks total or you can buy them all together for $45</a>. It's actually $50 but they want you to buy now, so it's 10% off like lots of Steam preorders.
<div align="center"><img src="http://steampowered.com/v/gfx/subs/469/header.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> HWG is happy because he's taking yer money. Gordon's smug look? Same deal.</div>
So what's the problem? Well you're also getting Half-Life 2 and HL2: Episode 1 (and a 10 level version of Peggle Extreme!) for your $45. I payed money for HL2 and Ep1! I don't want to buy them again! I don't need them again. Sure, Valve lets you <a href="http://support.steampowered.com/cgi-bin/steampowered.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=750" target="_blank">give your old copies of HL2 and Episode 1 away</a>, which isn't very helpful. I mean honestly if someone hasn't played Half-Life 2 by now I don't think they deserve it for free. There's something wrong with them.
I can sort of see what they're thinking, in that $45 is (sorta) a good deal for Ep2, Portal, and TF2 (and tiny-Peggle), while HL2 and Ep1 are nice little freebies, but it still roils my boils.* Episode 2 looks good, but $30 good? Ep1 was $20. And TF2 looks good, but $30 good? DoD:S was $20. And TF2 only has like what, 5 maps? Red Orchestra was 20 bucks and that thing has maps I haven't played in weeks, there are so many. $20 for Portal sounds fine though
Buy them individually, get shafted. Buy them as a group, and it turns out you wasted your money on Half-Life 2 and Episode 1. Woe is me! These had better be nearly as much fun as Half-Life, Counterstrike, Day of Defeat, Counterstrike: Source, Half-Life 2, Day of Defeat: Source, Half-Life 2: Episode 1, and Half-Life 2: The Lost Coast. Otherwise I'm going to be mad. Er. Madder.
*I don't have any boils.
Edit: Be sure to visit <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=102593" target="_blank">this post's sister thread</a>, which addresses the very, very important topic of Peggle Extreme.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
You are paying for TF2, Portal and EP2. You are getting HL2 and EP1 free. They are not charging you for them twice. Valve previously explained that the inclusion of HL2 and EP1 was to allow them to deliver the entire HL2 franchise on all platforms in a single box.
I'm not sure if you are doing the math correctly, but how exactly do you get shafted for buying a bundle that is cheaper than the sum of the individual costs.
If they are charging you for EP1 and HL2, then you are getting over $120 worth of games for $50.
If they are not charging you for EP1 and HL2 then you are getting $80 worth of games for $50.
If you already own HL2 and EP1 and want to buy EP2, TF2 and Portal, then you still get everything at a huge discount for $50.
If you only want portal and TF2, then it costs you $5 to play in the TF2 open beta, which is a pity.
If you are only interested in TF2 then you are screwed, because you have to pay $20 to play in the beta.
<!--quoteo(post=1649021:date=Sep 12 2007, 05:43 PM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Sep 12 2007, 05:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649021"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[...]You get it everywhere and it isn't new and isn't limited to video games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sounds like AIDS, only with video games instead of apes.
<b>Me:</b> Hi, I'd like this Hershey's bar and these crackers please.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->That'll be $12.99.
<b>Me:</b> What? That's crazy. Hershey's bars don't cost nearly that much and the crackers are like two bucks.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->Right, but these come with a jug of orange juice and some beef jerky.
<b>Me:</b> I don't want a jug of orange juice or beef jerky.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->But orange juice is good for you, and tasty! And eveyone knows beef jerky is delicious.
<b>Me:</b> Correct, which is why I purchased a jug of orange juice and a bag of beef jerky just last week. I am enjoying both of them, and I don't want them with my freaking Hershey's bar and crackers!
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->It's such a good deal, though! If you bought the OJ, jerky, candy, and crackers alone, it would come out to over twenty-two dollars!
<b>Me:</b> Yes, but I'd never buy them all alone! I already own the juice and the beef!
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->So just pretend you're getting them free, and it's just a bonus.
<b>Me:</b> But I paid for the orange juice and the jerky once already. Was that a waste of money? What am I going to do with a bunch more?
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->You could give it to your friends! We'll let you do that! We're benevolent today.
<b>Me:</b> All of my friends buy their own orange juice and beef jerky. Anyone who hasn't already probably doesn't want it now.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->Look man, you're getting a lot of stuff for not a lot of money. What's your problem?
<b>Me:</b> Fine, can I just buy the Hershey's bar alone?
<b>Me:</b> That's ridiculous! Hershey's bars are never that expensive! I bought a Snickers here just last week for $1!
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->So you should be happy we're giving you this really good deal. We call it the <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->orange juice<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> box. It doesn't actually come in a box but when we call it that it makes it sound like it's hard for us to sell the items individually.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited September 2007
tl;dr
Seriously, what's with the allegorical verbal Diarrhea here. It isn't complex.
Which part of discount bundling is hard to understand?
They sell the items individually. You can buy all three of them individually.
Somebody please slap me and explain what I'm missing here. I'm baffled that so many people are confused by such a simple concept.
edit: hang on. Are you under the impression that the bundle would be cheaper if HL2 and EP1 weren't included?
edit2: a questionaire
1. How much do you think portal should cost? 2. How much do you think TF2 should cost? 3. How much do you think EP2 should cost? 4. How much do you think portal, tf2 and ep2 in a bundle should cost? 5. How much do you think portal, tf2, ep2, hl2 and ep1 in a bundle should cost? 6. How much do you think portal, tf2, ep2, hl2, ep1, peggle deluxe and acess to tf2 beta in a bundle should cost?
edit3: one last point <a href="http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/6-/Search.html?searchtype=allproducts&searchstring=orange+box&page=search&go.x=0&go.y=0&cur=258" target="_blank">http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/6-/Search.html...y=0&cur=258</a>
Look at the price difference between orange box on the various platforms.
Same contents, same box. 50% more expensive on the PS3 and 360. I would argue that if HL2 and EP1 were not included in the PC Orange box it would still cost exactly $50.
Everything's cheaper on the PC. Bioshock, Oblivion, Rainbow 6: Vegas, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, etc. I definitely <b>am</b> under the impression that the bundle would be cheaper sans HL2 and Ep1, seeing as the Black Box was $5 less or something before it was nixed. I discussed my "how much should things cost" views in my earlier post which was absolutely awesome so you should go back and read that, although I'm thinking that Portal might not be worth the $20 individually seeing as it's supposed to be super short and I can't imagine that replaying a puzzle game is much fun.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
Tycho, is your problem that they are overcharging for the individual games, or that they are only selling a bundle w/ HL2+EP1?
If you take issue at them only selling the bundle w/ HL2+EP1 it is kinda silly, as the bundle is cheaper then the individual games.
If you take issue with the price points for the games then that is a different matter and completely unrelated to the bundle....
I know some people think that EP2 and TF2 are not worth $30. Personally, I think that TF2 is worth $30, and EP2 is worth $30 (assuming it is actually significantly longer then EP1 was). And portal is probably worth $20 (if the length is the same as, or greater, then EP1). Also, I remember a good amount of mumbling about making mapping for Portal incredibly simple, if somethign came of that then portal will likely surpass the $20 mark with user content.
Sure, it would be nice if they sold the Black Box at $40, but I am happy with a discount of $30 instead of $40 (or $20/$10/whatever if you think that the 3 games are not worth their asking price).
Heck, if you think that EP2 and Portal are only worth $20 and TF2 is only worth $10, then you would be paying EXACTLY what you think it is worth (and a $5 discount for preordering).
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--quoteo(post=1649027:date=Sep 12 2007, 04:57 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Sep 12 2007, 04:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649027"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. How much do you think portal should cost? 2. How much do you think TF2 should cost? 3. How much do you think EP2 should cost? 4. How much do you think portal, tf2 and ep2 in a bundle should cost? 5. How much do you think portal, tf2, ep2, hl2 and ep1 in a bundle should cost? 6. How much do you think portal, tf2, ep2, hl2, ep1, peggle deluxe and acess to tf2 beta in a bundle should cost?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
edited September 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1649044:date=Sep 12 2007, 12:27 PM:name=Epidemic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Epidemic @ Sep 12 2007, 12:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649044"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1) 5$ 2) free 3) 20-30$ 4)25-35$? 5) 50$? 6) Zomg, peggle deluxe???! 1 gigazillion!!11<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then apparently the only game you are actually interested in is EP2, so you should just buy that at $30 and ignore the bundle.
<!--quoteo(post=1648920:date=Sep 12 2007, 12:59 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Sep 12 2007, 12:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The free version has the same DRM, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, you're right. Let me explain.
Source: Has DRM that requires me to have an Internet connection to authenticate. I dislike that, which is why I still have my original Half-Life disc, should I want to play the game again if Valve were to go out of business. Steam's DRM is for Steam only, so when it's uninstalled, it doesn't leave traces of itself behind. Because I wouldn't get a non-Steam disc if I were to buy a Steam game, I avoid buying games from Steam (the one time I did, I regretted it). However, if it's a game I don't really care if I play or not, or I get it for free, it doesn't really matter to me that it's on the Steam platform, because I can always uninstall the Steam platform and have the DRM go with it.
Bioshock: Requires the same Internet connection to authenticate: however, because I don't have a way to play the game in a state before the DRM was included (as I can with the WON.net version of Half-Life), I haven't bought the game. Also, even after uninstalling, the DRM remains. Until I can get a fool-proof method of stripping the DRM of the game completely, I won't install it, even if I get it for free.
As for Team Fortress 2, I'm not really yet convinced it'll be a game I'll want to play. I really liked Team Fortress Classic, but the bunnyhopping, scripting, and overall cry-baby clan rules drove me away. I'm worried, considering it's Valve still at the helm (and their history of disappointing me), that the same attitude will be allowed to prosper in the sequel.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
edited September 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1649045:date=Sep 12 2007, 05:34 AM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Sep 12 2007, 05:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649045"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then apparently the only game you are actually interested in is EP2, so you should just buy that at $30 and ignore the bundle.
(Did I just save you $25?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope, gonna buy the bundle since I don't own HL2, but, I'm just pointing out, valve isn't doing this bundle thing for your blue eyes only, they are trying to sell an expansion-pack for a full game's price and adding extra features that don't cost them a dime (in lost revenue) in order to make people think they are getting value.
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
right and this so called "DRM" in steam is bad how? is suddenly authenticating via the internet some super secret steam plot for hackers to get at you?
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
edited September 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1649047:date=Sep 12 2007, 12:41 PM:name=Epidemic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Epidemic @ Sep 12 2007, 12:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649047"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nope, gonna buy the bundle since I don't own HL2, but, I'm just pointing out, valve isn't doing this bundle thing for your blue eyes only, they are trying to sell an expansion-pack for a full game's price and adding extra features that don't cost them a dime in order to make people think they are getting value.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How do TF2 and Portal not cost them a dime?
Last I check THEM has a rather nice salary (He refuses to state what it actually is, but he admits that it is rather nice).
Hey, if you REALLY don't think TF2 and Portal are worth the $$ just buy EP2, I am sure one of the other Forumites will give you the HL2 and EP1 keys (I would, but they are going to my GF). I honestly am just pointing out that ranting against Valve for this bundle seems silly to me.
If you deem it to not be worth your $$, just don't give it to them.
Oh, and stop stalking me, you shouldn't be close enough to know my friken eye colour man!
Ninja Edit: Epi changed his post: Yus, it likely will not cost them anything (significant) in lost revenue, and I agree, it is simply a marketing tactic to get people to think they are getting a better deal then they are. However, as I pointed out, you can play the system by just buying EP2 and having one of us give you EP1 and HL2.
And Sonic: The problem with the DRM in some of these systems is that it REQUIRES the company to still be around. If Valve folds then all of our digitally purchased games are dead. If (Whomever publishes BS) Folds, all of our copies of BS are dead (store bought OR digitally bought).
This is actually NOT true for Valve games as there are already NOSTEAM cracks for them. BS I am not sure if they actually have it 100% working yet or not (I know it is the one that has taken the longest to crack).
Comments
The free version has the same DRM, though.
Lucky me, haven't played Episode 1 yet, gonna do that in about 10 minutes, when the download finishes. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
"I'm an engineer, and that means I solve problems."
And the little counter ticking over every time one of his guns gets a kill.
He doesn't say "use more guns", he says "use more gun". Makes it ten times funnier.
--Scythe--
Not to derail, but I think people are really over emphasising Bioshock's qualities. I may not be very far through it but it's really nothing new in terms of plot, and certainly doesn't have any more "universe" building story, less I'd say, than the Half Life saga has done through all it's so far released 5 games.
On topic again, So what if the orange box is $45 (it was $53 for me) including games I already own. To get half life episode 2, portal, and TF2 (ignoring Peggle) for effectively around £30 is a bargain by any means, and to get Half life 2 and ep 1 if you've never played them makes it as good as free in my eyes.
Dunno if that was understandable, I'm too lazy to make it double plus good english.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hehe, <strike>citizen kane</strike> 1984 reference = win!
Edit: Oh god, I failed so badly <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
So I don't want to buy EP2 *unless* I need to own it to to play mods that use the features introduced into the engine.
I do want to play portal and I'm interested in TF2, but I'm not sure I want to spend $50 on them. Maybe if I could sell my HL1, EP1 and EP2 keys to someone for $20 it'd be worth it.
But for now, I will let YOU GUYS buy TF2 so you can then report to me whether it is worth my money. Better that you waste your money than I do. Minions, do my bidding!
So I don't want to buy EP2 *unless* I need to own it to to play mods that use the features introduced into the engine.
I do want to play portal and I'm interested in TF2, but I'm not sure I want to spend $50 on them. Maybe if I could sell my HL1, EP1 and EP2 keys to someone for $20 it'd be worth it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately you can only give away EP1 and HL2.
I don't think you need to own EP2 to get the new features as they build them into the HL1 engine (or at least they did with HDR, but then again, HDR was first in TLC)
<!--quoteo(post=1648977:date=Sep 12 2007, 09:27 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Sep 12 2007, 09:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648977"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If FF will be a "spiritual successor" to TFC in the sense that it'll be trickjumping, trickjumping and MORE trickjumping, I'll buy TF2 TWICE just to give FF the finger.
But for now, I will let YOU GUYS buy TF2 so you can then report to me whether it is worth my money. Better that you waste your money than I do. Minions, do my bidding!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They are both 'Spiritual Successors' to TF, and they both look good, and different.
FF focuses more on movement, trick jumps, and other things, However they have stated that they want to make them accessible to ALL players. Their goal is to remove the need for scripts and such to give you the edge by either including them or, more making the scripts pointless.
EX: a +3jump is pointless in FF as you will instantly jump on landing so long as you have released and pressed jump when in the air.
I will probably play em both (much like I played TFC and WW), as I expect them to be different.
Tycho is angry about everything. So that does not count <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
btw: I will pre-order as soon as my paypal transfer is complete ^^
And portal better be good, or else I will come after them. And especially after THEM!
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Damn my TF roots. And damn Valve if TF2 isn't infected with delicious. Oh well, at least I have a friend who doesn't own HL2, so the extra copy will be put to good use. I guess.
Take 2:
Remember when Valve nixed the Black Box? I figured that was just to avoid confusion on retail shelves. Sell the Orange Box (HL2, Ep1, Ep2, TF2, and Portal) in stores, and then if you only want the three new things (Ep2, TF2, and Portal) you just buy the figurative Black Box on Steam. Made sense, right?
Yeah, well, apparently not to Valve. If you want Team Fortress 2, Episode 2, and Portal, have I got a deal for you! <a href="http://steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=package&SubId=469&cc=US" target="_blank">You can buy them individually for 80 bucks total or you can buy them all together for $45</a>. It's actually $50 but they want you to buy now, so it's 10% off like lots of Steam preorders.
<div align="center"><img src="http://steampowered.com/v/gfx/subs/469/header.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
HWG is happy because he's taking yer money. Gordon's smug look? Same deal.</div>
So what's the problem? Well you're also getting Half-Life 2 and HL2: Episode 1 (and a 10 level version of Peggle Extreme!) for your $45. I payed money for HL2 and Ep1! I don't want to buy them again! I don't need them again. Sure, Valve lets you <a href="http://support.steampowered.com/cgi-bin/steampowered.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=750" target="_blank">give your old copies of HL2 and Episode 1 away</a>, which isn't very helpful. I mean honestly if someone hasn't played Half-Life 2 by now I don't think they deserve it for free. There's something wrong with them.
I can sort of see what they're thinking, in that $45 is (sorta) a good deal for Ep2, Portal, and TF2 (and tiny-Peggle), while HL2 and Ep1 are nice little freebies, but it still roils my boils.* Episode 2 looks good, but $30 good? Ep1 was $20. And TF2 looks good, but $30 good? DoD:S was $20. And TF2 only has like what, 5 maps? Red Orchestra was 20 bucks and that thing has maps I haven't played in weeks, there are so many. $20 for Portal sounds fine though
Buy them individually, get shafted. Buy them as a group, and it turns out you wasted your money on Half-Life 2 and Episode 1. Woe is me! These had better be nearly as much fun as Half-Life, Counterstrike, Day of Defeat, Counterstrike: Source, Half-Life 2, Day of Defeat: Source, Half-Life 2: Episode 1, and Half-Life 2: The Lost Coast. Otherwise I'm going to be mad. Er. Madder.
*I don't have any boils.
Edit: Be sure to visit <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=102593" target="_blank">this post's sister thread</a>, which addresses the very, very important topic of Peggle Extreme.
I'm not sure if you are doing the math correctly, but how exactly do you get shafted for buying a bundle that is cheaper than the sum of the individual costs.
If they are charging you for EP1 and HL2, then you are getting over $120 worth of games for $50.
If they are not charging you for EP1 and HL2 then you are getting $80 worth of games for $50.
If you already own HL2 and EP1 and want to buy EP2, TF2 and Portal, then you still get everything at a huge discount for $50.
If you only want portal and TF2, then it costs you $5 to play in the TF2 open beta, which is a pity.
If you are only interested in TF2 then you are screwed, because you have to pay $20 to play in the beta.
"WHAT?! For a MARS BAR? That's outrageous!"
"Well, you'll also get this litre of milk and this Bounty bar for free with your Mars bar."
"But I just want a Mars bar! I don't drink milk and Bounty is for ######gots."
"Well, you could give the milk and the Bounty to your friends!"
<strike>"But I don't have any friends</strike> "But then I've still paid 3.99 for a Mars bar! Can't I just get the Mars bar alone?"
"What, only the Mars bar?"
"Yeah."
"Like, without the milk and the Bounty bar?"
"Yes, please."
"You do want the wrapper though, right?"
"Uhm, yeah."
"So, let me get this straight: You want a Mars bar, but no Bounty and no milk? Just the Mars bar, alone?"
"Exactly!"
"That'll be 5.99 please."
What exactly is the problem?
Maybe I'm missing something here, but this is conventional bundling. You get it everywhere and it isn't new and isn't limited to video games.
Edit: okay, lets look at it another way.
Individual costs
Portal = $20
TF2 = $30
EP2 = $30
Total individual cost = $80.
Discount on bundle = $30.
Free gifts in bundle = HL2, EP1, Peggle Deluxe, access to TF2 Beta.
Which of these do you have a problem with?
Sounds like AIDS, only with video games instead of apes.
<b>Me:</b> Hi, I'd like this Hershey's bar and these crackers please.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->That'll be $12.99.
<b>Me:</b> What? That's crazy. Hershey's bars don't cost nearly that much and the crackers are like two bucks.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->Right, but these come with a jug of orange juice and some beef jerky.
<b>Me:</b> I don't want a jug of orange juice or beef jerky.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->But orange juice is good for you, and tasty! And eveyone knows beef jerky is delicious.
<b>Me:</b> Correct, which is why I purchased a jug of orange juice and a bag of beef jerky just last week. I am enjoying both of them, and I don't want them with my freaking Hershey's bar and crackers!
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->It's such a good deal, though! If you bought the OJ, jerky, candy, and crackers alone, it would come out to over twenty-two dollars!
<b>Me:</b> Yes, but I'd never buy them all alone! I already own the juice and the beef!
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->So just pretend you're getting them free, and it's just a bonus.
<b>Me:</b> But I paid for the orange juice and the jerky once already. Was that a waste of money? What am I going to do with a bunch more?
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->You could give it to your friends! We'll let you do that! We're benevolent today.
<b>Me:</b> All of my friends buy their own orange juice and beef jerky. Anyone who hasn't already probably doesn't want it now.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->Look man, you're getting a lot of stuff for not a lot of money. What's your problem?
<b>Me:</b> Fine, can I just buy the Hershey's bar alone?
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->For $2.99, sure.
<b>Me:</b> That's ridiculous! Hershey's bars are never that expensive! I bought a Snickers here just last week for $1!
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>Valve Food Center: </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->So you should be happy we're giving you this really good deal. We call it the <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->orange juice<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> box. It doesn't actually come in a box but when we call it that it makes it sound like it's hard for us to sell the items individually.
Seriously, what's with the allegorical verbal Diarrhea here. It isn't complex.
Which part of discount bundling is hard to understand?
They sell the items individually. You can buy all three of them individually.
Somebody please slap me and explain what I'm missing here. I'm baffled that so many people are confused by such a simple concept.
edit: hang on. Are you under the impression that the bundle would be cheaper if HL2 and EP1 weren't included?
edit2: a questionaire
1. How much do you think portal should cost?
2. How much do you think TF2 should cost?
3. How much do you think EP2 should cost?
4. How much do you think portal, tf2 and ep2 in a bundle should cost?
5. How much do you think portal, tf2, ep2, hl2 and ep1 in a bundle should cost?
6. How much do you think portal, tf2, ep2, hl2, ep1, peggle deluxe and acess to tf2 beta in a bundle should cost?
edit3: one last point
<a href="http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/6-/Search.html?searchtype=allproducts&searchstring=orange+box&page=search&go.x=0&go.y=0&cur=258" target="_blank">http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/6-/Search.html...y=0&cur=258</a>
Look at the price difference between orange box on the various platforms.
Same contents, same box. 50% more expensive on the PS3 and 360. I would argue that if HL2 and EP1 were not included in the PC Orange box it would still cost exactly $50.
If you take issue at them only selling the bundle w/ HL2+EP1 it is kinda silly, as the bundle is cheaper then the individual games.
If you take issue with the price points for the games then that is a different matter and completely unrelated to the bundle....
I know some people think that EP2 and TF2 are not worth $30. Personally, I think that TF2 is worth $30, and EP2 is worth $30 (assuming it is actually significantly longer then EP1 was). And portal is probably worth $20 (if the length is the same as, or greater, then EP1). Also, I remember a good amount of mumbling about making mapping for Portal incredibly simple, if somethign came of that then portal will likely surpass the $20 mark with user content.
Sure, it would be nice if they sold the Black Box at $40, but I am happy with a discount of $30 instead of $40 (or $20/$10/whatever if you think that the 3 games are not worth their asking price).
Heck, if you think that EP2 and Portal are only worth $20 and TF2 is only worth $10, then you would be paying EXACTLY what you think it is worth (and a $5 discount for preordering).
Meh.
2. How much do you think TF2 should cost?
3. How much do you think EP2 should cost?
4. How much do you think portal, tf2 and ep2 in a bundle should cost?
5. How much do you think portal, tf2, ep2, hl2 and ep1 in a bundle should cost?
6. How much do you think portal, tf2, ep2, hl2, ep1, peggle deluxe and acess to tf2 beta in a bundle should cost?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) 5$
2) free
3) 20-30$
4)25-35$?
5) 50$?
6) Zomg, peggle deluxe???! 1 gigazillion!!11
2) free
3) 20-30$
4)25-35$?
5) 50$?
6) Zomg, peggle deluxe???! 1 gigazillion!!11<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then apparently the only game you are actually interested in is EP2, so you should just buy that at $30 and ignore the bundle.
(Did I just save you $25?)
Yes, you're right. Let me explain.
Source: Has DRM that requires me to have an Internet connection to authenticate. I dislike that, which is why I still have my original Half-Life disc, should I want to play the game again if Valve were to go out of business. Steam's DRM is for Steam only, so when it's uninstalled, it doesn't leave traces of itself behind. Because I wouldn't get a non-Steam disc if I were to buy a Steam game, I avoid buying games from Steam (the one time I did, I regretted it). However, if it's a game I don't really care if I play or not, or I get it for free, it doesn't really matter to me that it's on the Steam platform, because I can always uninstall the Steam platform and have the DRM go with it.
Bioshock: Requires the same Internet connection to authenticate: however, because I don't have a way to play the game in a state before the DRM was included (as I can with the WON.net version of Half-Life), I haven't bought the game. Also, even after uninstalling, the DRM remains. Until I can get a fool-proof method of stripping the DRM of the game completely, I won't install it, even if I get it for free.
As for Team Fortress 2, I'm not really yet convinced it'll be a game I'll want to play. I really liked Team Fortress Classic, but the bunnyhopping, scripting, and overall cry-baby clan rules drove me away. I'm worried, considering it's Valve still at the helm (and their history of disappointing me), that the same attitude will be allowed to prosper in the sequel.
(Did I just save you $25?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope, gonna buy the bundle since I don't own HL2, but, I'm just pointing out, valve isn't doing this bundle thing for your blue eyes only, they are trying to sell an expansion-pack for a full game's price and adding extra features that don't cost them a dime (in lost revenue) in order to make people think they are getting value.
How do TF2 and Portal not cost them a dime?
Last I check THEM has a rather nice salary (He refuses to state what it actually is, but he admits that it is rather nice).
Hey, if you REALLY don't think TF2 and Portal are worth the $$ just buy EP2, I am sure one of the other Forumites will give you the HL2 and EP1 keys (I would, but they are going to my GF). I honestly am just pointing out that ranting against Valve for this bundle seems silly to me.
If you deem it to not be worth your $$, just don't give it to them.
Oh, and stop stalking me, you shouldn't be close enough to know my friken eye colour man!
Ninja Edit:
Epi changed his post:
Yus, it likely will not cost them anything (significant) in lost revenue, and I agree, it is simply a marketing tactic to get people to think they are getting a better deal then they are. However, as I pointed out, you can play the system by just buying EP2 and having one of us give you EP1 and HL2.
And Sonic:
The problem with the DRM in some of these systems is that it REQUIRES the company to still be around. If Valve folds then all of our digitally purchased games are dead. If (Whomever publishes BS) Folds, all of our copies of BS are dead (store bought OR digitally bought).
This is actually NOT true for Valve games as there are already NOSTEAM cracks for them. BS I am not sure if they actually have it 100% working yet or not (I know it is the one that has taken the longest to crack).