<!--quoteo(post=1644298:date=Aug 17 2007, 07:13 AM:name=Gwahir)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gwahir @ Aug 17 2007, 07:13 AM) [snapback]1644298[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Or perhaps all the socialist programs in many EU countries cost money and so the government offsets the cost with higher taxes, tariffs, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I don't think they charge more in the EU because the hate Europeans or something.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited August 2007
They are charging it because they can. Adding 10% to the cost of the game more than offsets the savings we are gaining due to a weak dollar. The game cost me €40 ( £27.70 ) including tax after the exchange rate, so even with the premium cost, it still works out cheaper than most games on the shelf today.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1644313:date=Aug 17 2007, 11:13 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Aug 17 2007, 11:13 AM) [snapback]1644313[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Yeah, I don't think they charge more in the EU because the hate Europeans or something. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actualy that is exactly it.
All software and electronics companies hate Europeans.
<!--quoteo(post=1644309:date=Aug 17 2007, 11:07 AM:name=Olmy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Olmy @ Aug 17 2007, 11:07 AM) [snapback]1644309[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It's more likely that Microsoft can't be bothered adding mouse/keyboard support to the xbox 360. And I can't see that happening unless they can lock consumers into their specially branded and exorbitantly priced xbox 360 official mice and keyboards. (disgruntled xbox 360 owner here) <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, MS made a conscious decision to not allow KB/Mouse peripherals on the original XBOX because people equated it as being a computer in a console covering (which it essentially was). It's nothing to do with usability or technical ability, it's simply a design decision MS made early in the XBOX franchise to differentiate the console as a console system, and not a computer.
early reports indicate that the game is "only" 10 to 20 hours long. I guess that's long for a shooter, but it's not long for an RPG, or for an FPS with RPG elements (like System Shock 2).
I guess we can't complain if those 10 to 20 hours are 10 to 20 hours packed with pure leetsauce.
<!--quoteo(post=1644298:date=Aug 17 2007, 03:13 PM:name=Gwahir)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gwahir @ Aug 17 2007, 03:13 PM) [snapback]1644298[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Or perhaps all the socialist programs in many EU countries cost money and so the government offsets the cost with higher taxes, tariffs, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm going with the average equivalent cost of hosting a Steam download server in Europe being higher than the equivalent once the weaker $AUS, $CAN and $US are taken into account.
<!--quoteo(post=1644379:date=Aug 17 2007, 05:41 PM:name=Mantrid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mantrid @ Aug 17 2007, 05:41 PM) [snapback]1644379[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It's more expensive because the game has to go through longer tubes.
It's not like a truck, you know. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A longer <i>series</i> of tubes.
10-20 hours of gameplay increases in length considerably when you account for all the replayability that the game apparently has. Like Deus Ex or Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, it looks like you'll want to play multiple times. (For different reasons, though; story in Deus Ex and V:TM-B but AI/Combat/Whatever? in Bioshock.)
Oh and we don't pay tax on the purchase either. And thanks to the pissweak US dollar I can buy off steam for AUD$20 cheaper than it's on the shelves. Yays!
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
<!--quoteo(post=1644382:date=Aug 17 2007, 09:19 PM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scythe @ Aug 17 2007, 09:19 PM) [snapback]1644382[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Oh and we don't pay tax on the purchase either. And thanks to the pissweak US dollar I can buy off steam for AUD$20 cheaper than it's on the shelves. Yays!
Heh, my copy is costing me £24.99 + 99p shipping, but since I work Thursdays-Sundays, and im away at a friends 21st over the weekend, I think Ill opt for the free shipping so it arrives on the Monday when I can play it.
Jeez, now that I have a computer that can play any PC game ever made, I've been on a freaking spending spree. Company of Heroes and now Bioshock. That might not sound like a spree, but 2 games this close together is pretty crazy for me.
But yeah. Now I own Bioshock! I wish they'd unlock it.
So I just got back from the shop. I went and checked Bioshock PC version on the shelves at EB. AUD$90. That's USD$71. On steam it's AUD$64 plus a few bucks for an international transaction charge. I think the choice is pretty clear-cut.
<!--quoteo(post=1644389:date=Aug 17 2007, 09:20 PM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scythe @ Aug 17 2007, 09:20 PM) [snapback]1644389[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> So I just got back from the shop. I went and checked Bioshock PC version on the shelves at EB. AUD$90. That's USD$71. On steam it's AUD$64 plus a few bucks for an international transaction charge. I think the choice is pretty clear-cut.
<!--quoteo(post=1644386:date=Aug 18 2007, 02:49 AM:name=Rellix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rellix @ Aug 18 2007, 02:49 AM) [snapback]1644386[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Heh, my copy is costing me £24.99 + 99p shipping, but since I work Thursdays-Sundays, and im away at a friends 21st over the weekend, I think Ill opt for the free shipping so it arrives on the Monday when I can play it. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Share pls.
<!--quoteo(post=1644474:date=Aug 18 2007, 06:47 PM:name=Mantrid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mantrid @ Aug 18 2007, 06:47 PM) [snapback]1644474[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I really don't understand how the PC demo isn't ready if the full PC version of the game is done. This just doesn't make any sense. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are many, many reasons. First, the demo is not identical to the actual game. They added in some weapons and modified parts of the level to make it more representative of the final product. Second, they have to strip out the parts that don't go in to the demo, make a new installer for all that, and make sure the demo (which has zero copy protection) doesn't let people crack the full version of the game without any effort. They also have to set up distribution for the demo and test it to make sure they didn't break anything when they changed stuff around and stripped stuff out. Finally they have to get it small enough for everyone to download over the Intertubes.
<!--quoteo(post=1644478:date=Aug 18 2007, 07:45 PM:name=MedHead)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MedHead @ Aug 18 2007, 07:45 PM) [snapback]1644478[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Regardless, I can't help but feel the PC is being ignored. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's like you didn't even read my earlier post with the review quote. It never fails to annoy me how people can choose to ignore large bodies of evidence when they contradict an opinion the person has already formed for some reason or another.
<!--quoteo(post=1644479:date=Aug 18 2007, 11:13 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Aug 18 2007, 11:13 PM) [snapback]1644479[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It's like you didn't even read my earlier post with the review quote. It never fails to annoy me how people can choose to ignore large bodies of evidence when they contradict an opinion the person has already formed for some reason or another. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A bit hostile there. I didn't ignore your post. I don't disagree that there were good reasons for delaying the PC demo. In the end (and why I wrote "regardless"), I don't care why it was delayed. The XBOX 360 users got it first, and the PC users are left with nothing. It really doesn't matter to me why it was delayed: my perception of it is that the PC userbase was ignored. If they wanted to, the demo could have been released at the same time as the XBOX 360: because they chose to wait on the PC release, it makes me feel as if they care more for the XBOX 360 than the PC. I then lose confidence in the quality of the PC version.
"If they wanted to, the demo could have been released at the same time as the XBOX 360"
I don't understand. That's wrong. The PC demo's not even done yet; there's no possible way they could have released it at the same time as the 360 demo. I know it would be nice to have it but it's not like they can just snap their fingers and make it done. They've got people working crazy mega overtime, and this is <i>after</i> the game is shipped, just to get the PC demo out there, and it feels like we're being ignored? They make a spiritual successor to their previous PC only game with the type of gameplay that PC gamers typically enjoy more than console gamers and it feels like we're being ignored? They add multiple PC-centric customization options to the PC version and do a thorough job of porting the game, above and beyond what even triple A titles like Oblivion get, and it feels like we're being ignored?
Y'know, for someone accusing me of not reading posts...
The PC demo and XBOX 360 demo should have been released on the same day. They weren't, obviously. I don't care why it was delayed, and my complaint wasn't concerning the completed PC game. It was about the demo only. The two systems should have had simultaneous releases. They could have released them simultaneously if they truly wanted to, even going so far as to delay the XBOX 360 version to allow for both demo versions to be released at the same time. So the PC version takes longer: great - then don't release any demos at all until the PC version is ready.
I'm similarly struggling with the idea that a PC-centric game can have a demo for an entirely different system come out first, yet have its own platform's demo get delayed to nearly the release of the game. Again, continued uncertainty about the PC version.
I think you believe I don't understand what you've written, and that's not the case. As I wrote before, I don't care why it was delayed. I, as a potential customer, want to believe that my platform is not being shortsighted. Talk is cheap: just look at Duke Nukem: Forever. I don't want to hear excuses from the developer as to why things take longer on the PC. If they're going to tell me the PC is #1 in their hearts, I want them to prove it to me by releasing a demo when a supposedly inferior platform gets a demo. It's all about perception, and my perception is that the PC is being ignored, while the XBOX 360 users are getting the most attention.
So you're saying it's okay for them to delay the 360 demo to wait until the PC demo is done? What if they had delayed the PC demo until the 360 one was done? I can't imagine anyone would have been happy with that one. There's no legitimate reason to delay the 360 demo to wait up for the PC one; you only want them to have done it to dispell your nebulous fears that they somehow dislike the PC compared to the 360, and that's hardly a reason to annoy all the console fans just so a tiny minority of PC players don't feel neglected when in reality all that's happening is the PC demo is taking longer to finish.
And the PC demo has not been delayed at all, except for just yesterday or whatever when they said it was coming and then it turned out they were wrong. The PC one just takes longer. Nobody can magically snap their fingers and make it finish faster. All they can do is work hard for longer hours, which is what they're doing, because they care about the PC demo and want to get it out as fast as possible.
I can't imagine that 2k Games cares much about your "perception" versus that of, say, everyone else, seeing as yours is based on fabrications that appear to originate entirely in your head instead of reality. Your sole basis for somehow deciding that they think the PC is a second class platform seems like it's the timing of the demo, which is either
A. A message to you, me, and every other gamer that 2k views the 360 as the prime platform and the PC as a redheaded stepchild, or
B. The result of the PC demo taking longer to make and there being no good reason to delay the 360 demo, which is done.
Now which of these seems more likely? Keep in mind that the company formerly known as Irrational has been a primarily PC-centric developer up until now, has made some of the most beloved PC games of all time, has gone to extra lengths to differentiate the Bioshock PC version from the console version by adding PC centric features, and has stated repeatedly that the PC is just as important, if not more important, in their eyes compared to the console version.
Also keep in mind that a PC demo has to worry about copy protection, distribution mirrors, installing on every possible system configuration, the user's video drivers and DirectX installation, virus scanners, and uninstallation, while the 360 demo just gets stuck on XBOX Live Marketplace.
Take all of that in to account, then take a good long look at the review scores from places like PC Gamer UK who have always been brutal on games that have shown more love to consoles than the PCs they were ported to or built for, and tell me how you can possibly get some sort of impression that 2k thinks the PC is a second rate platform, or at least what has led you to believe this aside from your wish that they had made console gamers wait a while for PC gamers to get a demo.
<!--quoteo(post=1644486:date=Aug 18 2007, 09:49 PM:name=MedHead)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MedHead @ Aug 18 2007, 09:49 PM) [snapback]1644486[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Thank you for your post, but my feelings remain the same. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're welcome, but it's polite to tip between 15 and 20% of the overall cost, excluding sales tax.
Comments
Or perhaps all the socialist programs in many EU countries cost money and so the government offsets the cost with higher taxes, tariffs, etc.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I don't think they charge more in the EU because the hate Europeans or something.
I pay 21% VAT on computer games here in Ireland.
Yeah, I don't think they charge more in the EU because the hate Europeans or something.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actualy that is exactly it.
All software and electronics companies hate Europeans.
HOWEVER, you are all in luck!
They hate Australians more ;P
--Scythe--
We've got the USD$50 price.
--Scythe--
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But that can't even begin to offset the fact that they <i>hate</i> you so much.
We've got the USD$50 price.
--Scythe--
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, wow.
Never mind, they do hate European's more!
sorry guys.
It's more likely that Microsoft can't be bothered adding mouse/keyboard support to the xbox 360. And I can't see that happening unless they can lock consumers into their specially branded and exorbitantly priced xbox 360 official mice and keyboards. (disgruntled xbox 360 owner here)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, MS made a conscious decision to not allow KB/Mouse peripherals on the original XBOX because people equated it as being a computer in a console covering (which it essentially was). It's nothing to do with usability or technical ability, it's simply a design decision MS made early in the XBOX franchise to differentiate the console as a console system, and not a computer.
I guess we can't complain if those 10 to 20 hours are 10 to 20 hours packed with pure leetsauce.
Or perhaps all the socialist programs in many EU countries cost money and so the government offsets the cost with higher taxes, tariffs, etc.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm going with the average equivalent cost of hosting a Steam download server in Europe being higher than the equivalent once the weaker $AUS, $CAN and $US are taken into account.
It's not like a truck, you know.
It's more expensive because the game has to go through longer tubes.
It's not like a truck, you know.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A longer <i>series</i> of tubes.
10-20 hours of gameplay increases in length considerably when you account for all the replayability that the game apparently has. Like Deus Ex or Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, it looks like you'll want to play multiple times. (For different reasons, though; story in Deus Ex and V:TM-B but AI/Combat/Whatever? in Bioshock.)
--Scythe--
Oh and we don't pay tax on the purchase either. And thanks to the pissweak US dollar I can buy off steam for AUD$20 cheaper than it's on the shelves. Yays!
--Scythe--
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hooray for piss-poor US $$$!
But yeah. Now I own Bioshock! I wish they'd unlock it.
--Scythe--
So I just got back from the shop. I went and checked Bioshock PC version on the shelves at EB. AUD$90. That's USD$71. On steam it's AUD$64 plus a few bucks for an international transaction charge. I think the choice is pretty clear-cut.
--Scythe--
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed: Buy me a copy so I don't have to pay tax.
Heh, my copy is costing me £24.99 + 99p shipping, but since I work Thursdays-Sundays, and im away at a friends 21st over the weekend, I think Ill opt for the free shipping so it arrives on the Monday when I can play it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Share pls.
I really don't understand how the PC demo isn't ready if the full PC version of the game is done. This just doesn't make any sense.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are many, many reasons. First, the demo is not identical to the actual game. They added in some weapons and modified parts of the level to make it more representative of the final product. Second, they have to strip out the parts that don't go in to the demo, make a new installer for all that, and make sure the demo (which has zero copy protection) doesn't let people crack the full version of the game without any effort. They also have to set up distribution for the demo and test it to make sure they didn't break anything when they changed stuff around and stripped stuff out. Finally they have to get it small enough for everyone to download over the Intertubes.
Regardless, I can't help but feel the PC is being ignored.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's like you didn't even read my earlier post with the review quote. It never fails to annoy me how people can choose to ignore large bodies of evidence when they contradict an opinion the person has already formed for some reason or another.
It's like you didn't even read my earlier post with the review quote. It never fails to annoy me how people can choose to ignore large bodies of evidence when they contradict an opinion the person has already formed for some reason or another.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A bit hostile there. I didn't ignore your post. I don't disagree that there were good reasons for delaying the PC demo. In the end (and why I wrote "regardless"), I don't care why it was delayed. The XBOX 360 users got it first, and the PC users are left with nothing. It really doesn't matter to me why it was delayed: my perception of it is that the PC userbase was ignored. If they wanted to, the demo could have been released at the same time as the XBOX 360: because they chose to wait on the PC release, it makes me feel as if they care more for the XBOX 360 than the PC. I then lose confidence in the quality of the PC version.
I don't understand. That's wrong. The PC demo's not even done yet; there's no possible way they could have released it at the same time as the 360 demo. I know it would be nice to have it but it's not like they can just snap their fingers and make it done. They've got people working crazy mega overtime, and this is <i>after</i> the game is shipped, just to get the PC demo out there, and it feels like we're being ignored? They make a spiritual successor to their previous PC only game with the type of gameplay that PC gamers typically enjoy more than console gamers and it feels like we're being ignored? They add multiple PC-centric customization options to the PC version and do a thorough job of porting the game, above and beyond what even triple A titles like Oblivion get, and it feels like we're being ignored?
I just don't get it.
The PC demo and XBOX 360 demo should have been released on the same day. They weren't, obviously. I don't care why it was delayed, and my complaint wasn't concerning the completed PC game. It was about the demo only. The two systems should have had simultaneous releases. They could have released them simultaneously if they truly wanted to, even going so far as to delay the XBOX 360 version to allow for both demo versions to be released at the same time. So the PC version takes longer: great - then don't release any demos at all until the PC version is ready.
I'm similarly struggling with the idea that a PC-centric game can have a demo for an entirely different system come out first, yet have its own platform's demo get delayed to nearly the release of the game. Again, continued uncertainty about the PC version.
I think you believe I don't understand what you've written, and that's not the case. As I wrote before, I don't care why it was delayed. I, as a potential customer, want to believe that my platform is not being shortsighted. Talk is cheap: just look at Duke Nukem: Forever. I don't want to hear excuses from the developer as to why things take longer on the PC. If they're going to tell me the PC is #1 in their hearts, I want them to prove it to me by releasing a demo when a supposedly inferior platform gets a demo. It's all about perception, and my perception is that the PC is being ignored, while the XBOX 360 users are getting the most attention.
And the PC demo has not been delayed at all, except for just yesterday or whatever when they said it was coming and then it turned out they were wrong. The PC one just takes longer. Nobody can magically snap their fingers and make it finish faster. All they can do is work hard for longer hours, which is what they're doing, because they care about the PC demo and want to get it out as fast as possible.
I can't imagine that 2k Games cares much about your "perception" versus that of, say, everyone else, seeing as yours is based on fabrications that appear to originate entirely in your head instead of reality. Your sole basis for somehow deciding that they think the PC is a second class platform seems like it's the timing of the demo, which is either
A. A message to you, me, and every other gamer that 2k views the 360 as the prime platform and the PC as a redheaded stepchild, or
B. The result of the PC demo taking longer to make and there being no good reason to delay the 360 demo, which is done.
Now which of these seems more likely? Keep in mind that the company formerly known as Irrational has been a primarily PC-centric developer up until now, has made some of the most beloved PC games of all time, has gone to extra lengths to differentiate the Bioshock PC version from the console version by adding PC centric features, and has stated repeatedly that the PC is just as important, if not more important, in their eyes compared to the console version.
Also keep in mind that a PC demo has to worry about copy protection, distribution mirrors, installing on every possible system configuration, the user's video drivers and DirectX installation, virus scanners, and uninstallation, while the 360 demo just gets stuck on XBOX Live Marketplace.
Take all of that in to account, then take a good long look at the review scores from places like PC Gamer UK who have always been brutal on games that have shown more love to consoles than the PCs they were ported to or built for, and tell me how you can possibly get some sort of impression that 2k thinks the PC is a second rate platform, or at least what has led you to believe this aside from your wish that they had made console gamers wait a while for PC gamers to get a demo.
Thank you for your post, but my feelings remain the same.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're welcome, but it's polite to tip between 15 and 20% of the overall cost, excluding sales tax.