You know what would be wonderful? If male feminists would stop flying about hoping to impress the two person female gaming community. Stop treating them special and throwing around ideas to make it more enjoyable for them, and treat them as equal, or just don't say anything at all. Perhaps give an option for a female model, but leave it at that. This is NATURAL SELECTION, so make it NATURAL SELECTION. Not, "Zomg I need a girlfriend so I'm gunna make this fun for deh girlzy." If they don't like the game, they won't play, simple as that.
<!--quoteo(post=1632863:date=Jun 11 2007, 01:35 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(schkorpio @ Jun 11 2007, 01:35 AM) [snapback]1632863[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS is a marines vs aliens game, not a dating site. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can say that about most games but it still doesn't stop lots of guys being really creepy or lavishing attention on anything remotely female. On the upside, things like Counterstrike are a lot easier to win when you can headshot someone who's too busy typing silly chat up lines at you to notice you've snuck up and leveled a gun at their head :3
This all comes down to how accepted minorities feel in the social arena and it applies not only to the sexes but to ethnicity and age as well. The more a minority perceives themselves to be accepted in any given social group, the less of a minority they become.
There are clear and effective ways to promote greater diversity and acceptance in videogames. If we're talking about girls playing games, then having female player models will go some way to making girls feel more accepted. As mentioned, these have to be done tastefully, and not merely according to a visual style that is focused on pleasing the male.
The way the female is represented in games is important. Take Alyx in Half-Life versus the captured 'babes' you had to rescue in Duke Nukem 3D. It's clear one is wholly dominated by a desire to please heterosexual males (the female is objectified and made entirely passive, with the lead male character empowered through heavy weaponry, special items and punchy oneliners) and the other has no such preoccupation, instead fleshing out the character with emotion, motive and backstory; and allowing her to take part in the action, often coming to the rescue of the lead male character. This last scenario is an almost total reversal of roles from what we'd seen before in games, whether in overtly macho titles like the aforementioned Duke Nukem 3D, or more subtle phallocentric motifs, like Mario going on a quest to rescue Princess Toadstool and ditto with Link and Zelda).
I think some people are looking too shallowly at what this change would entail and overlooking the wider picture. It's not just a question of adding a new model and animations so that female players can inhabit a female avatar. What's much more important is what this change would say about females in the NS universe taking on what are supposedly typical male roles (the soldier) and by proxy how this transfers to the real world; what it says about females playing typically male-dominated game genres. If this change were made, in NS the female TSA soldier would be on a par with her male teammates in what she can bring to the team and her value to the squad, much like the current situation we have where black and white Frontiersmen fight side-by-side (racial prejudice presumably a relic of ages past).
Besides, everyone knows the lady is a Gorge! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
<b>Thread Translation</b>: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The plight of women in this hemisphere is deplorable... Giggedy, giggedy, giggedy, gig-ge-dy! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Officially, the reason which I heard for not including a female model was a technical one. Reason? They couldn't fit the polies into the model to make her chest look correct, so the model for the HL1 engine was dropped. This certainly shouldn't be a problem for the engine NS2 will be on, so you can probably expect to see this.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1633743:date=Jun 16 2007, 12:02 PM:name=Redford)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Redford @ Jun 16 2007, 12:02 PM) [snapback]1633743[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Officially, the reason which I heard for not including a female model was a technical one. Reason? They couldn't fit the polies into the model to make her chest look correct, so the model for the HL1 engine was dropped. This certainly shouldn't be a problem for the engine NS2 will be on, so you can probably expect to see this. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
why does the female model in every game need to be a double D cup?(any remember riply or vasquez have a big rack?) im assuming that female marines would wear body armour just like the male ones and there wouldn't be much difference in that regard. you'd expect thinner overall appearence, males would have broader shoulders etc. HA would be the same - one size fits all.
on another note, i pointed out the mspaint thread with the girly looking onos with lipstick, and my g/f said that it was a great idea, and that she play more (not just when i make her lol) if there were more things like that, basically any customisable things you can do in the sims would automatically translate to more female ns players <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> whether or not that ruins the game is another thing lol
Do you mean having more skins for the character models? Like say having "Born To Kill Kharaa" painted on the back of a Marine helmet or have a skulk's skin looking like tiger stripes or camouflage patterns?
If so, I hope that is implemented to grow both sets of gamers in NS2, male and female.
Here's an idea, would it be better for expanding the overall player base to choose: 1) the look of your Kharaa or TSA Marine ... 2) ... or let it be random as it is now?
I personally would like (1), choosing the skin of my Kharaa or Marine. A little individuality couldn't hurt, I think.
<!--quoteo(post=1633988:date=Jun 17 2007, 05:05 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Jun 17 2007, 05:05 PM) [snapback]1633988[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Do you mean having more skins for the character models? Like say having "Born To Kill Kharaa" painted on the back of a Marine helmet or have a skulk's skin looking like tiger stripes or camouflage patterns?
If so, I hope that is implemented to grow both sets of gamers in NS2, male and female.
Here's an idea, would it be better for expanding the overall player base to choose: 1) the look of your Kharaa or TSA Marine ... 2) ... or let it be random as it is now?
I personally would like (1), choosing the skin of my Kharaa or Marine. A little individuality couldn't hurt, I think. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Could quite easily hurt the development timeline if the team were expected to make 6 unique skins instead of 2 skins which were effectively 1 skin with a different skin tone. Well, not majorly, but any extra work for little reward I would personally sideline with UWE being the size it is. It doesn't need 6 different skins to make a fun game, and as long as they foster the custom community those skins will be made, they just might not be included officially. However, if UWE brought on a decent community manager they could have a 'community news' section of the website that showcases all the best custom content/community creations (whether it be demos, videos, 2D artwork, custom skins, custom models, maps, guides, etc.). That for me is something that a volunteer could do at no expense to UWE with an excellent binding effect on the community.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
edited June 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1634021:date=Jun 18 2007, 04:15 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Jun 18 2007, 04:15 AM) [snapback]1634021[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Could quite easily hurt the development timeline if the team were expected to make 6 unique skins instead of 2 skins <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes thats true, but many skins are not really needed when the game first comes out - thanks to steam the NS team will be able to slipstream any updates to servers and clients (players). so the ability to add models later will be there. For example once the inital game is out, the programmers might be working on bug/exploit fixes so why have the artists just sitting there? they can release some new skins and models <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Also saying that few extra models could potentially double the player base - which is more than a "little benefit" but we can only guess
KassingerShades of greyJoin Date: 2002-02-20Member: 229Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1634098:date=Jun 18 2007, 08:22 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(schkorpio @ Jun 18 2007, 08:22 AM) [snapback]1634098[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> For example once the inital game is out, the programmers might be working on bug/exploit fixes so why have the artists just sitting there? they can release some new skins and models <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The artists (or everyone else that Max and Flay) seem to have been hired on a short-term project based deal. Doing anything at all, especially involving artists and others would cost UWE money. Which brings to mind a question that hasn't been asked, how will UWE support NS2 after the initial release? It would make sense for them to do some post-release updates as a small independent company more dependent on their reputation than EA. But at one early point they would have to start working full time on their next project to keep the company afloat.
<!--quoteo(post=1634217:date=Jun 18 2007, 02:22 PM:name=Kassinger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kassinger @ Jun 18 2007, 02:22 PM) [snapback]1634217[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The artists (or everyone else that Max and Flay) seem to have been hired on a short-term project based deal. Doing anything at all, especially involving artists and others would cost UWE money. Which brings to mind a question that hasn't been asked, how will UWE support NS2 after the initial release? It would make sense for them to do some post-release updates as a small independent company more dependent on their reputation than EA. But at one early point they would have to start working full time on their next project to keep the company afloat. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Or they could simply keep releasing new maps, expand the game with new game modes, increase revenue with an existing IP.
Crispy stop making a mountain out of a mole hill... Ever heard of the terminology "natural-selection prosumers"? The unique player models takes some hours to complete, not weeks and months. If it is that slow then development is moving at anti-LUDICROUS speed and NS2 will never be released. The fact is, NS2 development is going along at a proficient speed and I think it could easily speed up with prosumer aid. Just ask Max.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1634729:date=Jun 20 2007, 01:52 PM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Jun 20 2007, 01:52 PM) [snapback]1634729[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Irony (airɒni): This thread = a mountain. Female player base in NS = a molehill. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wonder if any of these posts in this thread belong to female players/forum members ....
KassingerShades of greyJoin Date: 2002-02-20Member: 229Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1634739:date=Jun 20 2007, 10:31 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(schkorpio @ Jun 20 2007, 10:31 AM) [snapback]1634739[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I wonder if any of these posts in this thread belong to female players/forum members .... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm to lazy to count the amount of <b>posts</b>, but at least three of the <b>posters</b> are female that I know of. You have to read the whole thread, schkorpio. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1634696:date=Jun 20 2007, 02:41 AM:name=the_x5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ Jun 20 2007, 02:41 AM) [snapback]1634696[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Crispy stop making a mountain out of a mole hill... Ever heard of the terminology "natural-selection prosumers"? The unique player models takes some hours to complete, not weeks and months. If it is that slow then development is moving at anti-LUDICROUS speed and NS2 will never be released. The fact is, NS2 development is going along at a proficient speed and I think it could easily speed up with prosumer aid. Just ask Max. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Now I'm no modeler, but I know there's quite a bit involved in producing a unique player model. A modeler would be able to give you a bit more info on this (and possibly point out any errors I've made), but this is how I understand the process from a semi-layman's viewpoint:
- Concept phase - High poly model for normal map - Regular model - LOD models - Unwrap - Colour map - Normal map - Specular map - Any other crazy maps that might be required - Skeleton - Rig - Movement animations (idle/standing to crouch/walk/run/weapon cycle/fire/throw/swim/jump/jump to crouch/build) - Facial animations (e.g. when using the in-game mic) - Import in-game
It's not months, but it's more than some hours.
[Edit] Did I miss out the hitbox? And is a shadow model required? I don't really know how that part works with player models.
<!--quoteo(post=1634845:date=Jun 20 2007, 04:57 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Jun 20 2007, 04:57 PM) [snapback]1634845[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> [Edit] Did I miss out the hitbox? And is a shadow model required? I don't really know how that part works with player models. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Setting the hitbox is pretty quick (about 30mins if you create them from scratch and your model aint that fancy)
And no, as far as I am aware of you dont need to create a shadow model in source. But what I never figured out for HL1 models was how the hell do you combine seperate animations? Is this done through game code or do you need to specify something "inside" the model <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Example: You have a human model and create an animation for running. Then you create an animation for reloading and instead of having to create an animation for reloading while running, the game somehow takes the upper body of the reload animation and places it on the lower body of the running animation. It's just strange <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
you dont need a female models to attract girls gamers, just a dam gd game. if I wanted graphics i ll go play oblivian. the high learning curve in this aspect has made sure NS has hardcore players, it give the game depth to explore. (athough graphics cant hurt <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> )
I've been wanting a female player model for a while now, but honestly, there isn't anything else that needs changing in my opinion. Really, if they started to add more stuff to the game just to attract more girls, I'd be worried that the game would just take longer to be released and not have much difference in the actual gameplay.
Also, if they will add a female player model, do it realistically. when in light armor, it'll be easy to see the difference, but in level3 armor you would need to be right next to it to notice, and when in heavy armor there would obviously be no difference what so ever in the model.
1. I have some female friends indeed, but thank you frostymoose for showing concern. I have a better idea too, if read my posts completely you'll learn that's not the point of the topic.
2. I can't believe that some of you are seriously arguing that this is a ridiculously arduous task to add a little more customization and uniqueness. I'd rather NS2 be polished, complete, and immersively awesome before it even hits beta testing than have NS2 released as fast as possible. Rushing good art makes it suck.
3. Source model making really takes that much time? Perhaps I've erred in estimation then. If that be the case, then freely I admit I was off.
4. I find it interesting that it's only the male forum posters who have decided to mock this topic or attempt to derail the subject. Thanks guys so much for your asinine behavior. It's a shame we don't have a forum called Off Topic for such silly antics. -_-
Why you'd want more girls in any video game with inbuilt voice chat is beyond me. All the 12 year old boys are bad enough, I couldn't imagine more girls :|
I'm going to try my best to be as realistic as possible on this subject. I would like to mention first and foremost that women <i>typically</i> gravitate towards <b>constructive</b> roles in games. That's going to be the basis for my entire argument. I'll immediately concede that it's entirely anecdotal but I feel it's accurate.
In my experience, <b>women tend to engage in healing or supportive roles.</b> <b>Men</b> on the other hand seem to cover a pretty broad spectrum, but <b>often engage in destructive roles</b>.
What does this mean for Natural Selection? If the decision was made to consciously attract a female audience, the <i>core</i> game would have to include healing and/or supportive roles. A mostly non-combat role that could be reasonably sustained throughout the entirety of the game would be fundamental to this goal. Preliminary ideas would be something akin to Medic / Engineer roles for Marines and existing Gorge plus more supportive adaptation (Lerk comes to mind) species for Kharaa. Make the ideas feasible by making support roles significant in certain situations, in addition to giving them point defense weapons so they aren't completely neutered, or <i>spayed</i> in this case <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> .
<i>Example: Medic with adapted point defense Pistol and Knife. Includes Medical kit for healing, similar to Gorge's healing spray. Adapt game mechanics so that a Medic could be feasibly be used defensively and offensively. 2 Combat roles with a Medic role would be more effective than 3 combat roles in most situations.</i>
All very preliminary ideas, but the point remains: a consistent, feasible, <b>constructive</b> role would be optimal to attracting and maintaining a female population. Any support role, just as long as it's significant. There are other issues of course, but I feel that they are mostly secondary issues. (Female in-game models, learning curve, etc.) However, while I feel the introduction would be signicant to the female crowd, I wouldn't ever expect it to create a significant numerical gender equality in any short amount of time.
The gaming community as a whole is trying to shrug off the perception of gaming for men. It could be a result of violence, or it could be some sociological reason compounded with the increased learning curve and do-or-die mentality of violent games. Regardless, the introduction of supportive roles would likely be well readily received by both genders. What's there to lose?
NS in Australia use to have a reasonably good sized female player base. My clan of 20-30 had 3 females, and I knew of another 4-5 I spoke to regularly. But this is quite a few years ago now.
Most of them liked the teamplay environment + constant voice comms that aus games used to have. Once NS2 is running, the chances of getting more females is quite possible.
thing is sirius the alien team actually has decent support role in the gorge. I pretty much exclusively play either gorge or fade. Gorge for when I want to be constructive and helpful (I spend equal amounts of time building to support the battle lines or just running after people keeping their health topped up while bilebombing buildings to act as a distraction) and the fade... well... the fade I actually take for flying/teleporting (depending on which build we're talking about). Sure the fade's good at killing too but my reason for playing them is almost purely down to the fact that flying/teleporting is lots of fun :p
Reaaally not sure of the relevancy of this but may as well mention it: The game 'Nights' by Sega was built aimed at girl gamers based off research that showed that young girls often experience dreams of flying that are subconsciously remembered by women as they grow up or something like that.
Comments
I'm assuming that's from somebody else?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? No...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can say that about most games but it still doesn't stop lots of guys being really creepy or lavishing attention on anything remotely female.
On the upside, things like Counterstrike are a lot easier to win when you can headshot someone who's too busy typing silly chat up lines at you to notice you've snuck up and leveled a gun at their head :3
There are clear and effective ways to promote greater diversity and acceptance in videogames. If we're talking about girls playing games, then having female player models will go some way to making girls feel more accepted. As mentioned, these have to be done tastefully, and not merely according to a visual style that is focused on pleasing the male.
The way the female is represented in games is important. Take Alyx in Half-Life versus the captured 'babes' you had to rescue in Duke Nukem 3D. It's clear one is wholly dominated by a desire to please heterosexual males (the female is objectified and made entirely passive, with the lead male character empowered through heavy weaponry, special items and punchy oneliners) and the other has no such preoccupation, instead fleshing out the character with emotion, motive and backstory; and allowing her to take part in the action, often coming to the rescue of the lead male character. This last scenario is an almost total reversal of roles from what we'd seen before in games, whether in overtly macho titles like the aforementioned Duke Nukem 3D, or more subtle phallocentric motifs, like Mario going on a quest to rescue Princess Toadstool and ditto with Link and Zelda).
I think some people are looking too shallowly at what this change would entail and overlooking the wider picture. It's not just a question of adding a new model and animations so that female players can inhabit a female avatar. What's much more important is what this change would say about females in the NS universe taking on what are supposedly typical male roles (the soldier) and by proxy how this transfers to the real world; what it says about females playing typically male-dominated game genres. If this change were made, in NS the female TSA soldier would be on a par with her male teammates in what she can bring to the team and her value to the squad, much like the current situation we have where black and white Frontiersmen fight side-by-side (racial prejudice presumably a relic of ages past).
Besides, everyone knows the lady is a Gorge! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The plight of women in this hemisphere is deplorable...
Giggedy, giggedy, giggedy, gig-ge-dy!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Officially, the reason which I heard for not including a female model was a technical one. Reason? They couldn't fit the polies into the model to make her chest look correct, so the model for the HL1 engine was dropped. This certainly shouldn't be a problem for the engine NS2 will be on, so you can probably expect to see this.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
why does the female model in every game need to be a double D cup?(any remember riply or vasquez have a big rack?) im assuming that female marines would wear body armour just like the male ones and there wouldn't be much difference in that regard.
you'd expect thinner overall appearence, males would have broader shoulders etc. HA would be the same - one size fits all.
on another note, i pointed out the mspaint thread with the girly looking onos with lipstick, and my g/f said that it was a great idea, and that she play more (not just when i make her lol) if there were more things like that, basically any customisable things you can do in the sims would automatically translate to more female ns players <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
whether or not that ruins the game is another thing lol
If so, I hope that is implemented to grow both sets of gamers in NS2, male and female.
Here's an idea, would it be better for expanding the overall player base to choose:
1) the look of your Kharaa or TSA Marine ...
2) ... or let it be random as it is now?
I personally would like (1), choosing the skin of my Kharaa or Marine. A little individuality couldn't hurt, I think.
Do you mean having more skins for the character models? Like say having "Born To Kill Kharaa" painted on the back of a Marine helmet or have a skulk's skin looking like tiger stripes or camouflage patterns?
If so, I hope that is implemented to grow both sets of gamers in NS2, male and female.
Here's an idea, would it be better for expanding the overall player base to choose:
1) the look of your Kharaa or TSA Marine ...
2) ... or let it be random as it is now?
I personally would like (1), choosing the skin of my Kharaa or Marine. A little individuality couldn't hurt, I think.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Could quite easily hurt the development timeline if the team were expected to make 6 unique skins instead of 2 skins which were effectively 1 skin with a different skin tone. Well, not majorly, but any extra work for little reward I would personally sideline with UWE being the size it is. It doesn't need 6 different skins to make a fun game, and as long as they foster the custom community those skins will be made, they just might not be included officially. However, if UWE brought on a decent community manager they could have a 'community news' section of the website that showcases all the best custom content/community creations (whether it be demos, videos, 2D artwork, custom skins, custom models, maps, guides, etc.). That for me is something that a volunteer could do at no expense to UWE with an excellent binding effect on the community.
Could quite easily hurt the development timeline if the team were expected to make 6 unique skins instead of 2 skins <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes thats true, but many skins are not really needed when the game first comes out - thanks to steam the NS team will be able to slipstream any updates to servers and clients (players). so the ability to add models later will be there. For example once the inital game is out, the programmers might be working on bug/exploit fixes so why have the artists just sitting there? they can release some new skins and models <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Also saying that few extra models could potentially double the player base - which is more than a "little benefit" but we can only guess
For example once the inital game is out, the programmers might be working on bug/exploit fixes so why have the artists just sitting there? they can release some new skins and models <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The artists (or everyone else that Max and Flay) seem to have been hired on a short-term project based deal. Doing anything at all, especially involving artists and others would cost UWE money. Which brings to mind a question that hasn't been asked, how will UWE support NS2 after the initial release? It would make sense for them to do some post-release updates as a small independent company more dependent on their reputation than EA. But at one early point they would have to start working full time on their next project to keep the company afloat.
The artists (or everyone else that Max and Flay) seem to have been hired on a short-term project based deal. Doing anything at all, especially involving artists and others would cost UWE money. Which brings to mind a question that hasn't been asked, how will UWE support NS2 after the initial release? It would make sense for them to do some post-release updates as a small independent company more dependent on their reputation than EA. But at one early point they would have to start working full time on their next project to keep the company afloat.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Or they could simply keep releasing new maps, expand the game with new game modes, increase revenue with an existing IP.
This thread = a mountain.
Female player base in NS = a molehill.
Irony (airɒni):
This thread = a mountain.
Female player base in NS = a molehill.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wonder if any of these posts in this thread belong to female players/forum members ....
I wonder if any of these posts in this thread belong to female players/forum members ....
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm to lazy to count the amount of <b>posts</b>, but at least three of the <b>posters</b> are female that I know of. You have to read the whole thread, schkorpio. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Crispy stop making a mountain out of a mole hill... Ever heard of the terminology "natural-selection prosumers"? The unique player models takes some hours to complete, not weeks and months. If it is that slow then development is moving at anti-LUDICROUS speed and NS2 will never be released. The fact is, NS2 development is going along at a proficient speed and I think it could easily speed up with prosumer aid. Just ask Max.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Now I'm no modeler, but I know there's quite a bit involved in producing a unique player model. A modeler would be able to give you a bit more info on this (and possibly point out any errors I've made), but this is how I understand the process from a semi-layman's viewpoint:
- Concept phase
- High poly model for normal map
- Regular model
- LOD models
- Unwrap
- Colour map
- Normal map
- Specular map
- Any other crazy maps that might be required
- Skeleton
- Rig
- Movement animations (idle/standing to crouch/walk/run/weapon cycle/fire/throw/swim/jump/jump to crouch/build)
- Facial animations (e.g. when using the in-game mic)
- Import in-game
It's not months, but it's more than some hours.
[Edit] Did I miss out the hitbox? And is a shadow model required? I don't really know how that part works with player models.
[Edit] Did I miss out the hitbox? And is a shadow model required? I don't really know how that part works with player models.
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Setting the hitbox is pretty quick (about 30mins if you create them from scratch and your model aint that fancy)
And no, as far as I am aware of you dont need to create a shadow model in source.
But what I never figured out for HL1 models was how the hell do you combine seperate animations? Is this done through game code or do you need to specify something "inside" the model <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Example: You have a human model and create an animation for running. Then you create an animation for reloading and instead of having to create an animation for reloading while running, the game somehow takes the upper body of the reload animation and places it on the lower body of the running animation. It's just strange <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
Also, if they will add a female player model, do it realistically. when in light armor, it'll be easy to see the difference, but in level3 armor you would need to be right next to it to notice, and when in heavy armor there would obviously be no difference what so ever in the model.
2. I can't believe that some of you are seriously arguing that this is a ridiculously arduous task to add a little more customization and uniqueness. I'd rather NS2 be polished, complete, and immersively awesome before it even hits beta testing than have NS2 released as fast as possible. Rushing good art makes it suck.
3. Source model making really takes that much time? Perhaps I've erred in estimation then. If that be the case, then freely I admit I was off.
4. I find it interesting that it's only the male forum posters who have decided to mock this topic or attempt to derail the subject. Thanks guys so much for your asinine behavior. It's a shame we don't have a forum called Off Topic for such silly antics. -_-
In my experience, <b>women tend to engage in healing or supportive roles.</b> <b>Men</b> on the other hand seem to cover a pretty broad spectrum, but <b>often engage in destructive roles</b>.
What does this mean for Natural Selection? If the decision was made to consciously attract a female audience, the <i>core</i> game would have to include healing and/or supportive roles. A mostly non-combat role that could be reasonably sustained throughout the entirety of the game would be fundamental to this goal. Preliminary ideas would be something akin to Medic / Engineer roles for Marines and existing Gorge plus more supportive adaptation (Lerk comes to mind) species for Kharaa. Make the ideas feasible by making support roles significant in certain situations, in addition to giving them point defense weapons so they aren't completely neutered, or <i>spayed</i> in this case <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> .
<i>Example: Medic with adapted point defense Pistol and Knife. Includes Medical kit for healing, similar to
Gorge's healing spray. Adapt game mechanics so that a Medic could be feasibly be used defensively
and offensively. 2 Combat roles with a Medic role would be more effective than 3 combat roles in most
situations.</i>
All very preliminary ideas, but the point remains: a consistent, feasible, <b>constructive</b> role would be optimal to attracting and maintaining a female population. Any support role, just as long as it's significant. There are other issues of course, but I feel that they are mostly secondary issues. (Female in-game models, learning curve, etc.) However, while I feel the introduction would be signicant to the female crowd, I wouldn't ever expect it to create a significant numerical gender equality in any short amount of time.
The gaming community as a whole is trying to shrug off the perception of gaming for men. It could be a result of violence, or it could be some sociological reason compounded with the increased learning curve and do-or-die mentality of violent games. Regardless, the introduction of supportive roles would likely be well readily received by both genders. What's there to lose?
Most of them liked the teamplay environment + constant voice comms that aus games used to have. Once NS2 is running, the chances of getting more females is quite possible.
Reaaally not sure of the relevancy of this but may as well mention it: The game 'Nights' by Sega was built aimed at girl gamers based off research that showed that young girls often experience dreams of flying that are subconsciously remembered by women as they grow up or something like that.