<!--QuoteBegin--SoulSkorpion+Nov 25 2002, 08:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Nov 25 2002, 08:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Counterstrike? Couterstrike?! I speet on your Counterstrike! ptui!
Anything is better than Counterstrike. It's boring, unoriginal, requires no skill, is full of lamers and cheaters. What really bugs me is that at least hlaf the people who play CS would probably look at you quizically if you told them that CS is actually a MOD of Half-Life, and that there are hundreds of other free games you can download.
I despise any game which does not demand skill to play. Kharaa demands skill, CS doesn't. End of story. NS wins by a LONG shot <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I disagree with your classification of skill-less CS. While it doesn't take much skill to "spray and pray", as i'm sure you've done in NS as well, once you play at the top levels of any game the skill needed increases dramtically. Its quite different trying to outshoot someone with lightning fast reflexes across an entire map, with obstecals blocking direct viewing of the enemy, then it is to shoot down a skulk or fade with nearly recoil-less machine gun fire down a hallway. NS requires its own skill, mainly awareness and strategy. CS requires accuracy and reflexes. It all depends on the game and who plays it.
Actually , CS really toned a lot of players aiming skills. Now, all the previous generation of CS players own at games that have little recoil. CS is a fun (iceworld/chase the chicken/knife fight/) party game, whilst NS is a serious gamers game.
<!--QuoteBegin--Method+Nov 26 2002, 02:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Method @ Nov 26 2002, 02:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its quite different trying to outshoot someone with lightning fast reflexes across an entire map . . .<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I suppose it comes down to what you define as challenging. I don't regard being able to point the mouse dead on your target, or lightning-fast reflexes, as an indication of skill. I regard them as requisite. Any vet gamer can aim; any vet gamer has twitch-shooter reflexes. Not everyone can dodge bullets.
*shrug*
It's a difference of opinion.
[edit] While we're at it, part of my problem with CS is the mistaken belief most CS players seem to have - that CS is the only twitch shooter or even the best twitch shooter. There are countless games which are purer adrenaline soaked twitch DM action (Quake 3, Unreal, and all their varients) and further games which have more depth and complexity than CS yet just as much action (RtCW, Renegade, etc). CS is mediocrity. It's nothing SPECIAL. [/edit]
I played CS a long, long time ago, I don't think I've played a round in over 2 years.
However I've been an absolute TFC freak for those 2 years, and up until NS was released, my one and only love was TFC. I'd play many other games, but get quickly bored, and resume my flag capping ways.
But since Halloween, I've played mabye 2 games of TFC.
In my personal opinion, Natural Selection beats the flaming pants off of any previous mod for Half Life, in every design department. Better graphics, better gameplay, hell, NS even has it's own well written and complete backstory, something most COMMERICAL games lack.
The majority of the mods that have been produced for HL have been good, some have been excellent, but NS, I'm afraid, is Godlike. No other mod or game has made me waste this much time before, ever.
As most people have said, comparing NS to CS is like comparing the Sun and the Moon. They are too disimilar, there only real link being they both run off the HL engine.
Natural Selection really dosn't compare to any game currently in existance. Its not the first FPS/RTS to be attempted, but from my experiences, its the first to really pull it off, and do it well.
I imagine the next year will see many "NS concept Clones", both in HL modding, and commercial games. A merging of FPS games and RTS games had to come, and Natural Section beat all the bad@ss commercial companies to the punch.
Congratulations to the NS team, and Flayra for having this amazing idea in the first place.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is Ns Better Than Cs? What do you think? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes. I think NS is better than CS.
<!--QuoteBegin--Foggy+Nov 26 2002, 06:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Foggy @ Nov 26 2002, 06:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Honestly, was anyone expecting any different answers?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hehe. Good point. It's almost akin to going to a political message board for Republicans and asking:
"So, who likes those Democrats more than Republicans?"
<!--QuoteBegin--Daxx22+Nov 26 2002, 01:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daxx22 @ Nov 26 2002, 01:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Only in this case, it's been more:
*hostile stares* *FLAMES*
Heh.
CS dosn't suck, it just isn't my type of game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> cs sux, and its not my type of game (anymore)
<!--QuoteBegin--Daxx22+Nov 26 2002, 12:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daxx22 @ Nov 26 2002, 12:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I imagine the next year will see many "NS concept Clones", both in HL modding, and commercial games. A merging of FPS games and RTS games had to come, and Natural Section beat all the bad@ss commercial companies to the punch. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so many responses....sorry i didnt reply to them all...
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><i>LOL...just... LOL! This post has been edited to protect the innocent and to stop insane haunting me with posts from the past!</i></span>
Well, I played CS and what I liked was its <b>teamplay intention</b> (compared to "stupid" deathmatch <b>every</b> FPS has) - but I played CS on private LAN only, so I know the people I play with (and that they are not cheating <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) In CS you have to wait some time when killed - I found it makes you behave more "realistic", as "dead" means "dead until the next round" - not as in DM: "run right into fire - die - stand up - die again - stand up - die once more..." etc. (suuuuuper-boring). But in fact this waiting get's boring too - in NS you respawn while the game lasts, which is surely more fun.
NS pushes this <b>team-orientation</b> even further. In CS it's <i>in theory</i> possible to kill the whole other team as a single ("L337" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->) player and thus win - I don't know how you really will do that in NS, which in turn brings down any "ramboish" attempt. Secondly it's a really new twist to have rts-elements in fps-games, and I like rts-/simcity-games pretty much. This is a thing no software company has come up with (I'm quite sure, this will change now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> - meaning: good ideas are not necessarily bound to commercial software. Also I think there are (up to now) no real cheating issues - which is quite good. (Even if I can imagine some... let's see... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Actually <b>I'm playing NS online only</b> - which itself (at least for me) is a proof how <b>great this mod</b> is. (Applause to Flayra and the whole dev-team. Thank you guys. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
NS surely has a great potential (more tech-tree/upgrades/units etc.) - I'm very anxious to see to what it will evolve!
So to finish: I like CS better than Deathmatch - but I like NS waaaay better than CS. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
PS: I started playing multiplayer with <b>Doom I</b> (anyone? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> )
depends on my mood.... if i don't feel like dealing with ppl i'm gonna play cs... if i feel like playing on a team i'm gonna play ns. it's all good <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
LOL all these NS is better than CS topics are making me think the NS community is full of people that just couldn't cut it on a CS server and got frustrated. Come on guys NS is not better than CS, you must be ignorant to compare gameplay. Nor is CS better than NS. THEY ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAMES!!
Well i am going to have to post a reply to this one,
One of the comments on this post said something along the lines of "did u lot never make it as a csor". Well i did, i am in one of the top 20 uk clans, and we are doing well atm.
I heard of NS though i14 where i d/l. I played it 1ce and just loved it. Alot more teamplay than CS even at the higest competition levels, And it is a lot more fun than those boring frag fests like the Q series.
Though both have thier advantages, in cs u need a MUCH better shot and better positional work. BUT ns u need to keep in constant contact with your troops/commander making imo for a better atmosphere. which i think is maybe wht NS has going for it the most.
They are different games. Teamplay, etc does not matter. You get the same level of teamwork on a CS pub as you get on a NS pub. It goes the same way for a private server.
A whole lot of mods are better then CS. The biggest thing CS has going for it is it's popularity, simplicity, and polish. The first and last all good mods can get after a while, since that just takes time. And simplicity is just a feature. I like DoD, SI, The Specialists, NS, and Holy Wars more then CS.
I played CS for a very long time and i'm good at this game, but it's always the same thing... NS is a new mod and really has his chance, and I hope I won't get bored. But I think we can't compare two different mods... i think both are great (but now I play NS much more than CS)
I don't think NS will ever be as popular in the competitive FPS world as CS is/was. But it might be a good candidate for RTS competition. What makes CS easy to balance is that everyone gets pretty much the same guns, and health/armor is the same all around. they just switch sides and see who wins more rounds. NS is infinately harder to balance. Something very subtle that may seem balanced, might actually be what makes it inheritly harder to be aliens. Like maybe marine bullets do 1 dmg too little. all those times you killed a marine with only 10 health left, you would have been dead, they would capture that RS node, then got better equipment, then win...all because their lmg bullets do 1 more damage. People want even competition in their FPSs, but people in Starcraft play as all 3 races.
For non-competition is NS better? I don't know. I know I still enjoy playing CS after over 2 years. we'll see how this game stand the test of time. I can play de_dust for the 500,000th time, and still see new things, and every game is still unpredictable to the very end. Many people loved DoD(I always hated it) and thought it should take over CS, but it never went anywhere beyond its niche.
Ok i play both but as for which is better well wrong question to get the answer you want i,m affraid NO it isnt not even slightly.
However if you had of asked which is the better game concept then NS wins hands down.
Why?
Well CS has alot less bugs and works properly but then its been out for alot longer and has been through the beta stage now and is now a full game and the future updates comming for cs will ensure its gonna stay the most popular and best half life mod out there. NS will NEVER be able to beat CS because of cs huge following, if you think otherwise your living in a dream world.
However NS has a X factor that certain something that sets it apart form other mods. Originality being the obvious one, NS will survive because its original its concept is unique and its subject is so close to aliens that it ensures alien fans love it and sure enough they do <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I dont particualrly care about arguments over cs and ns as 1 person already mentioned you are all biased so pointless asking if you want a imparcial opinion. Although I will condem that sentance ns = team work and cs = 1337 speak kiddies Cos so far ns for me has produced whinging americans full of kiddie leet speak and bereft of the idea of team work in the slightest, and in fact there are more leet speak kiddies here than cs atm an its out of fashion in cs now. But then the ns community does seem a little behind the times there.
Having said that (and my final point) as i play this more very slowly alot of the kiddies and idiots are getting really fed up with this game and it looks like they are leaving the scene, if this is the case i think ns has a great future and may well with time be as good if not better than cs, it has the potential but its too young to even think about challenging CS yet. Dispite what you want to believe.
Comments
Anything is better than Counterstrike. It's boring, unoriginal, requires no skill, is full of lamers and cheaters. What really bugs me is that at least hlaf the people who play CS would probably look at you quizically if you told them that CS is actually a MOD of Half-Life, and that there are hundreds of other free games you can download.
I despise any game which does not demand skill to play. Kharaa demands skill, CS doesn't. End of story. NS wins by a LONG shot <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree with your classification of skill-less CS. While it doesn't take much skill to "spray and pray", as i'm sure you've done in NS as well, once you play at the top levels of any game the skill needed increases dramtically. Its quite different trying to outshoot someone with lightning fast reflexes across an entire map, with obstecals blocking direct viewing of the enemy, then it is to shoot down a skulk or fade with nearly recoil-less machine gun fire down a hallway. NS requires its own skill, mainly awareness and strategy. CS requires accuracy and reflexes. It all depends on the game and who plays it.
It's a fact: the more you make fun of Counter-Strike, the cooler you are.
I suppose it comes down to what you define as challenging. I don't regard being able to point the mouse dead on your target, or lightning-fast reflexes, as an indication of skill. I regard them as requisite. Any vet gamer can aim; any vet gamer has twitch-shooter reflexes. Not everyone can dodge bullets.
*shrug*
It's a difference of opinion.
[edit] While we're at it, part of my problem with CS is the mistaken belief most CS players seem to have - that CS is the only twitch shooter or even the best twitch shooter. There are countless games which are purer adrenaline soaked twitch DM action (Quake 3, Unreal, and all their varients) and further games which have more depth and complexity than CS yet just as much action (RtCW, Renegade, etc). CS is mediocrity. It's nothing SPECIAL. [/edit]
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> Look out Behind you!</span>
However I've been an absolute TFC freak for those 2 years, and up until NS was released, my one and only love was TFC. I'd play many other games, but get quickly bored, and resume my flag capping ways.
But since Halloween, I've played mabye 2 games of TFC.
In my personal opinion, Natural Selection beats the flaming pants off of any previous mod for Half Life, in every design department. Better graphics, better gameplay, hell, NS even has it's own well written and complete backstory, something most COMMERICAL games lack.
The majority of the mods that have been produced for HL have been good, some have been excellent, but NS, I'm afraid, is Godlike. No other mod or game has made me waste this much time before, ever.
As most people have said, comparing NS to CS is like comparing the Sun and the Moon. They are too disimilar, there only real link being they both run off the HL engine.
Natural Selection really dosn't compare to any game currently in existance. Its not the first FPS/RTS to be attempted, but from my experiences, its the first to really pull it off, and do it well.
I imagine the next year will see many "NS concept Clones", both in HL modding, and commercial games. A merging of FPS games and RTS games had to come, and Natural Section beat all the bad@ss commercial companies to the punch.
Congratulations to the NS team, and Flayra for having this amazing idea in the first place.
i do find NS games to be more satisfying, especially good long back and forth games.
cs sux, lamers/whiners...
Hehe. Good point. It's almost akin to going to a political message board for Republicans and asking:
"So, who likes those Democrats more than Republicans?"
*blank stares* *Crickets chirping*
*hostile stares* *FLAMES*
Heh.
CS dosn't suck, it just isn't my type of game.
*hostile stares* *FLAMES*
Heh.
CS dosn't suck, it just isn't my type of game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
cs sux, and its not my type of game (anymore)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um.....Battlezone. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><i>LOL...just... LOL! This post has been edited to protect the innocent and to stop insane haunting me with posts from the past!</i></span>
Well, I played CS and what I liked was its <b>teamplay intention</b> (compared to "stupid" deathmatch <b>every</b> FPS has) - but I played CS on private LAN only, so I know the people I play with (and that they are not cheating <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->)
In CS you have to wait some time when killed - I found it makes you behave more "realistic", as "dead" means "dead until the next round" - not as in DM: "run right into fire - die - stand up - die again - stand up - die once more..." etc. (suuuuuper-boring). But in fact this waiting get's boring too - in NS you respawn while the game lasts, which is surely more fun.
NS pushes this <b>team-orientation</b> even further. In CS it's <i>in theory</i> possible to kill the whole other team as a single ("L337" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->) player and thus win - I don't know how you really will do that in NS, which in turn brings down any "ramboish" attempt. Secondly it's a really new twist to have rts-elements in fps-games, and I like rts-/simcity-games pretty much. This is a thing no software company has come up with (I'm quite sure, this will change now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> - meaning: good ideas are not necessarily bound to commercial software.
Also I think there are (up to now) no real cheating issues - which is quite good. (Even if I can imagine some... let's see... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Actually <b>I'm playing NS online only</b> - which itself (at least for me) is a proof how <b>great this mod</b> is. (Applause to Flayra and the whole dev-team. Thank you guys. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
NS surely has a great potential (more tech-tree/upgrades/units etc.) - I'm very anxious to see to what it will evolve!
So to finish: I like CS better than Deathmatch - but I like NS waaaay better than CS. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
PS: I started playing multiplayer with <b>Doom I</b> (anyone? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> )
are apples better than oranges? i like both.
One of the comments on this post said something along the lines of "did u lot never make it as a csor". Well i did, i am in one of the top 20 uk clans, and we are doing well atm.
I heard of NS though i14 where i d/l. I played it 1ce and just loved it. Alot more teamplay than CS even at the higest competition levels, And it is a lot more fun than those boring frag fests like the Q series.
Though both have thier advantages, in cs u need a MUCH better shot and better positional work. BUT ns u need to keep in constant contact with your troops/commander making imo for a better atmosphere. which i think is maybe wht NS has going for it the most.
They are different games. Teamplay, etc does not matter. You get the same level of teamwork on a CS pub as you get on a NS pub. It goes the same way for a private server.
NS is a new mod and really has his chance, and I hope I won't get bored.
But I think we can't compare two different mods... i think both are great (but now I play NS much more than CS)
For non-competition is NS better? I don't know. I know I still enjoy playing CS after over 2 years. we'll see how this game stand the test of time. I can play de_dust for the 500,000th time, and still see new things, and every game is still unpredictable to the very end. Many people loved DoD(I always hated it) and thought it should take over CS, but it never went anywhere beyond its niche.
Yes!
However if you had of asked which is the better game concept then NS wins hands down.
Why?
Well CS has alot less bugs and works properly but then its been out for alot longer and has been through the beta stage now and is now a full game and the future updates comming for cs will ensure its gonna stay the most popular and best half life mod out there. NS will NEVER be able to beat CS because of cs huge following, if you think otherwise your living in a dream world.
However NS has a X factor that certain something that sets it apart form other mods. Originality being the obvious one, NS will survive because its original its concept is unique and its subject is so close to aliens that it ensures alien fans love it and sure enough they do <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I dont particualrly care about arguments over cs and ns as 1 person already mentioned you are all biased so pointless asking if you want a imparcial opinion.
Although I will condem that sentance ns = team work and cs = 1337 speak kiddies
Cos so far ns for me has produced whinging americans full of kiddie leet speak and bereft of the idea of team work in the slightest, and in fact there are more leet speak kiddies here than cs atm an its out of fashion in cs now. But then the ns community does seem a little behind the times there.
Having said that (and my final point) as i play this more very slowly alot of the kiddies and idiots are getting really fed up with this game and it looks like they are leaving the scene, if this is the case i think ns has a great future and may well with time be as good if not better than cs, it has the potential but its too young to even think about challenging CS yet. Dispite what you want to believe.