Co Discussion
voulge
Join Date: 2005-07-20 Member: 56337Members
Join Date: 2005-07-20 Member: 56337Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Guess what we're discussing!?</div> HEY HEY HEY!!!
OK, so what's the deal about CO??? Whenever i'm in the forums or playing classic/ns maps im always hearing that CO "IS TEH DEEMON!!!!!111" or "CO SUX".
WHAT IS THE DEAL!?!?! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Although i would generally much rather play a good ol' classic/ns map (tho ive only just started playing since 3.05Beta and I'm still getting used to the no double in double and no rt there and the wackjob starting points... but generally i'd rather sit down and play a good 2hr long NS frenzy (though 2hour games are few and far between now, since i only play on servers under 100 ping... which is like 7 servers, 3 of which are CO only and 2 CUSTOMS). Yes, NS is fun because ive been with NS for a while and that was the only mode available then, and because it is so unique in it's FPS/RTS hybridness that it is just too cool to miss, but really, i think that NS needs and needed CO.
So you don't like the epileptic alternative to UT2004/CS? Selecting your own upgrades for marine too hard for you? Sick of coming up against a troop of SGmarines who simultaneously have meddies and ammo's dropped over them???
WHell, obviously CO is not for you. But seriously, Answer = dont play = no hassle = no fuss...
But CO presents something completely different to Natural Selection (the game, not the mode of play) then it does to the individual. Because NS is becoming more and more popular, (especially within the HL mod comunities) we are having more and more 'new' players joining the ranks. Most of us cringe at a newplayer that, whilst trying to hit a semi-decent skulk fully holds down the trigger, wasting the full 125rounds of their HMG, screams for more ammo, then is turned into mincemeat.
CO not only offers a place where the new players can learn the ropes, but also trains them up for NS, the more advanced, more tactical game. Co also allows NS regulars to get a quick game or two in within 30 minutes before getting onto homework/otherstuff ^_^. But best of all, CO is just plain fun for some of us who dont feel like a long gruelling game of NS.
Personally, i think that the community needs CO to grow, and it also offers a quick, neat, fun alternative to the NS game.
OK, so what's the deal about CO??? Whenever i'm in the forums or playing classic/ns maps im always hearing that CO "IS TEH DEEMON!!!!!111" or "CO SUX".
WHAT IS THE DEAL!?!?! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Although i would generally much rather play a good ol' classic/ns map (tho ive only just started playing since 3.05Beta and I'm still getting used to the no double in double and no rt there and the wackjob starting points... but generally i'd rather sit down and play a good 2hr long NS frenzy (though 2hour games are few and far between now, since i only play on servers under 100 ping... which is like 7 servers, 3 of which are CO only and 2 CUSTOMS). Yes, NS is fun because ive been with NS for a while and that was the only mode available then, and because it is so unique in it's FPS/RTS hybridness that it is just too cool to miss, but really, i think that NS needs and needed CO.
So you don't like the epileptic alternative to UT2004/CS? Selecting your own upgrades for marine too hard for you? Sick of coming up against a troop of SGmarines who simultaneously have meddies and ammo's dropped over them???
WHell, obviously CO is not for you. But seriously, Answer = dont play = no hassle = no fuss...
But CO presents something completely different to Natural Selection (the game, not the mode of play) then it does to the individual. Because NS is becoming more and more popular, (especially within the HL mod comunities) we are having more and more 'new' players joining the ranks. Most of us cringe at a newplayer that, whilst trying to hit a semi-decent skulk fully holds down the trigger, wasting the full 125rounds of their HMG, screams for more ammo, then is turned into mincemeat.
CO not only offers a place where the new players can learn the ropes, but also trains them up for NS, the more advanced, more tactical game. Co also allows NS regulars to get a quick game or two in within 30 minutes before getting onto homework/otherstuff ^_^. But best of all, CO is just plain fun for some of us who dont feel like a long gruelling game of NS.
Personally, i think that the community needs CO to grow, and it also offers a quick, neat, fun alternative to the NS game.
Comments
it is fun yes, but it teaches them many bad habits.
1. combat requires near 0 teamwork. new people get used to it, then in real ns they don't stick togethor and they don't cover each other.
2. they get used to just going wherever they feel like and in real ns don't listen to what the comms saying.
3. they don't seem to understand that if they want the big shiny guns, they have to go back and build the rt they just ignored, NOT run around on their own trying to kill things for points.
4. they often seem to be under the impression that the comm is there simply to serve as a replacement for the co popup menu and that he should be dropping them whatever gun they want
5. they NEVER listen, in co they can just charge into the hive room, in ns they ignore the comm telling them not to go in and to build those sieges and guess what they do? run in and die.
6. they expect meds every time they get parasited. if you don't med them every 5 seconds they have a hissy fit.
8. as aliens they just want to use their res for higher lifeforms, they don't want to gorge and run around doing virtualy nothing but build
9. and finaly, of course you get the odd one that decides to try comming with little to no idea how proper ns works.
of course these are just worse case, most people arn't that stupid and not every person that does that is a newbie that's been playing to much co, but enough of them do it to be annoying and ruin games.
personaly i like co, when it's actualy a good game (which is rare). it usualy ends up with 1 side getting absolutely raped. 1 teams having great fun cause their winning, the other is starting to f4 because they have half the points and can't kill anything and the gap is only getting larger.
and of course you get some people that say balancing the lifeforms/abilities for co is ruining them in ns. onos is the more common one i hear this about.
but mainly, it may just be me but co seems to attract the little kiddies. as much as i love screams of complaint everytime they die or being told that i got 'pwned noob' whenever one kills me and the voices, i absolutely love to hear whiny high pitched voices screaching over the microphone comenting on every little event that heppens in the game that happens every single game. omg he got knifed! that is so funny! the 1st 50 billion teams.
then again im starting to dislike ns in general, but that's a whole other topic.
not really
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Personally, i think that the community needs CO to grow<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
debatable
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->just plain fun<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
see above
the most crushing feedback comes from people who play normal co regularly and try to enjoy it. however this is often very difficult if not impossible, the game simply isnt fun.
the most crushing feedback comes from people who play normal co regularly and try to enjoy it. however this is often very difficult if not impossible, the game simply isnt fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
... and I find Combat a lot of fun, and entertaining to the max. :>
wow, thats a convincing argument for co. It's about as compelling as 'everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong'
i often enjoy co more than proper ns but i still think it's crap. had the privilage of being killed in under a second whenever i go around a corner or otherwise come into line-of-sight (and often when not in line-of-site) regardless of what gun their using way to much to ever like co.
QUOTE
Combat is an enjoyable game and much of what you hear negative about it comes from those who either hate mods, or are die-hard classic players.
wow, thats a convincing argument for co. It's about as compelling as 'everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong'
i often enjoy co more than proper ns but i still think it's crap. had the privilage of being killed in under a second whenever i go around a corner or otherwise come into line-of-sight (and often when not in line-of-site) regardless of what gun their using way to much to ever like co. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was my opinion we welcome yours. :>
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 30 2005, 10:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 30 2005, 10:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Combat needs to be a second game, seriously. Why? So Im not forced into co_de_dust with 50 levels and flying cloaked heavy armors.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cwag, we've told ya before, all you have to do is pull up the <a href='http://nssb.psix.info/en/home/main/' target='_blank'>Natural Selection Server Browser</a> to see which servers are running what plugins. That's a weak excuse.
QUOTE
Combat is an enjoyable game and much of what you hear negative about it comes from those who either hate mods, or are die-hard classic players.
wow, thats a convincing argument for co. It's about as compelling as 'everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong'
i often enjoy co more than proper ns but i still think it's crap. had the privilage of being killed in under a second whenever i go around a corner or otherwise come into line-of-sight (and often when not in line-of-site) regardless of what gun their using way to much to ever like co. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was my opinion we welcome yours. :>
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 30 2005, 10:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 30 2005, 10:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Combat needs to be a second game, seriously. Why? So Im not forced into co_de_dust with 50 levels and flying cloaked heavy armors.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cwag, we've told ya before, all you have to do is pull up the <a href='http://nssb.psix.info/en/home/main/' target='_blank'>Natural Selection Server Browser</a> to see which servers are running what plugins. That's a weak excuse. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And we've said before, THERE ARE NO VANILLA COMBAT SERVERS LEFT.
In my humble opinion, the worst thing about co_ is that if you have 1 rambo on your team you have nearly already lost before the game starts.
Most people will understand why, but I would say it hurts aliens more than marines because marines (imo) have an easier time attacking at the start of games as solo than aliens.
So the little skulk turns the corner, dies, repeats, and suddenly there's a HA 1:30 minutes in..
In my humble opinion, the worst thing about co_ is that if you have 1 rambo on your team you have nearly already lost before the game starts.
Most people will understand why, but I would say it hurts aliens more than marines because marines (imo) have an easier time attacking at the start of games as solo than aliens.
So the little skulk turns the corner, dies, repeats, and suddenly there's a HA 1:30 minutes in.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
no the worst thing about co is that even if youre killing loads of aliens and the rest of your team keeps dieing youre gonna lose to one web gorge
after 1 marine gets jp and 1 alien gets focus fade the rest of both teams can turn into veggies or just /quit, their input doesnt matter anymore
In my humble opinion, the worst thing about co_ is that if you have 1 rambo on your team you have nearly already lost before the game starts.
Most people will understand why, but I would say it hurts aliens more than marines because marines (imo) have an easier time attacking at the start of games as solo than aliens.
So the little skulk turns the corner, dies, repeats, and suddenly there's a HA 1:30 minutes in.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
heh, exactly the opposite. there isnt "one rambo" in a team that doesnt know what hes doing and keeps dieing. theres one or two rambos on the team that know what theyre doing and kill stuff, the rest are just cannon fodder for the enemy
the crap rambo turns a corner and dies, the good ramdo turns a corner, lmg's 2 skulks, pistols another then knifes a 4th
co just makes it to easy to do it, get a decent start and you can have a sg before to many aliens have upgrades after that you can pick off 4-5 normal skill aliens before you run into the one that even has a chance of killing you.
same goes for aliens, get 3 points and you can fade, even without up's you can mow right through the 'lesser' skilled marines.
QUOTE
Combat is an enjoyable game and much of what you hear negative about it comes from those who either hate mods, or are die-hard classic players.
wow, thats a convincing argument for co. It's about as compelling as 'everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong'
i often enjoy co more than proper ns but i still think it's crap. had the privilage of being killed in under a second whenever i go around a corner or otherwise come into line-of-sight (and often when not in line-of-site) regardless of what gun their using way to much to ever like co. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was my opinion we welcome yours. :>
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 30 2005, 10:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 30 2005, 10:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Combat needs to be a second game, seriously. Why? So Im not forced into co_de_dust with 50 levels and flying cloaked heavy armors.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cwag, we've told ya before, all you have to do is pull up the <a href='http://nssb.psix.info/en/home/main/' target='_blank'>Natural Selection Server Browser</a> to see which servers are running what plugins. That's a weak excuse. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And we've said before, THERE ARE NO VANILLA COMBAT SERVERS LEFT. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Again</b>, click on the link I provided CWAG with and you'll find many plain vanilla combat servers. Learn to use the NSSB, it works well. :>
I already posted a link for you ... don't expect me to do ALL the work. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
3xx servers total
1/3rd currently running combat
140 running Extralevels 2
So, doing the math - that's like 0% combat servers running vanilla combat. Hence, nobody is actually playing the combat that the dev's released, so I can't see how anyone deems it a success.
It's sad that we should HAVE to download special 3rd party software to play the default version of a game.
anyways, guess u just like it or you dont like it... and wot's this 50level carp i keep hearing about? i only get 10 levels max <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> hehhee...
anyways... like i said, CO is just a quick alternative to the NS gameplay, and it IS a separate game, so it isnt compulsory to play it!!!
plus, who said a little target practice didn't go astray, (even though ive found it generally easier to play marines, and all CO teaches aliens is the skulk rush) but hey...variety is the spice of life. True, it doesnt teach you tactical skills like how to comm(though more and more ppl dont know including myself) but hey... if you want them to stop ignoring rt's, play NS:territory === [OMG TERRITORY IS TEH MODD PLUGIN!!!111 OMGF!!!11] === heck, you need teamwork to build the rt's and provide cover, and you need to move in a linear motion to the next rt, because it's 'locked down' (TERRITORY is like UT2004ONSLAUGHT BTW).
but heck, i guess there will always be NS fans and CO fans, but lately ive been swayed towards CO, as (like i said before) being a picky SOB, i only play on servers >100ping, and when there's only 2 NS maps, and these are generally crap (gamearena)... CO sounds better and better... btw, are there any serverclients for NS like ServerQuery for CS???
anyways.... yeah <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
By the time it gets up to +10 players though it gets kind of stale. I've played on those 32 player servers on co_faceoff and it is totally INSANE... i absolutely hate it when co games get that big because you have every idiot screaming and typing and it just turns into mindless killing and constantly dying.
3xx servers total
1/3rd currently running combat
140 running Extralevels 2
So, doing the math - that's like 0% combat servers running vanilla combat. Hence, nobody is actually playing the combat that the dev's released, so I can't see how anyone deems it a success.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
375 NS servers currently running (191 are Combat) - 140 are running either extralevels2 or extralevels2_rework ... that works out to roughly 73% of the combat servers and 37% of all servers running it. Consider this is the most popular plugin amxx in existence, and you get the picture. <span style='color:white'>51 combat servers are NOT running any type of extralevels2.</span>
<!--QuoteBegin-Toothy Jul 30 2005+ 08:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Toothy Jul 30 2005 @ 08:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
You know something?
It's sad that we should HAVE to download special 3rd party software to play the default version of a game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And why do you feel this is so?
You see, if you make it to level 10 while on marines, you can spend all 10 points on getting a special fishing rod, that you can use near a window on the maps to have a 1% chance of catching the 50levels Space Carp, a deep-space fish that gives you an extra 50 levels.
Err.
50 levels is a server plugin that lets you get up to 50 levels, and a host of third-party made abilities.
The only thing I don't like about it is when you join a game late. Playing as level 1 is pretty hard when everyone is 8 or above. Some servers have a plugin which automatically levels you up if you're a long way behind, which helps a lot, but without that you just die within seconds of spawning each time.
3xx servers total
1/3rd currently running combat
140 running Extralevels 2
So, doing the math - that's like 0% combat servers running vanilla combat. Hence, nobody is actually playing the combat that the dev's released, so I can't see how anyone deems it a success.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
375 NS servers currently running (191 are Combat) - 140 are running either extralevels2 or extralevels2_rework ... that works out to roughly 73% of the combat servers and 37% of all servers running it. Consider this is the most popular plugin amxx in existence, and you get the picture. <span style='color:white'>51 combat servers are NOT running any type of extralevels2.</span>
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And of those servers, practically all of them run some type of plugin.
3xx servers total
1/3rd currently running combat
140 running Extralevels 2
So, doing the math - that's like 0% combat servers running vanilla combat. Hence, nobody is actually playing the combat that the dev's released, so I can't see how anyone deems it a success.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
375 NS servers currently running (191 are Combat) - 140 are running either extralevels2 or extralevels2_rework ... that works out to roughly 73% of the combat servers and 37% of all servers running it. Consider this is the most popular plugin amxx in existence, and you get the picture. <span style='color:white'>51 combat servers are NOT running any type of extralevels2.</span>
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And of those servers, practically all of them run some type of plugin.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See,<b> THAT </b>is the type of blanket statement that gives plugins a bad name. Many plugins are not game altering and provide administrative or readyroom functions.
When players seek plain vanilla or non-plugginned servers, extralevels2 is their biggest complaint. It also is the most popular plugin. I merely used it for reference, to show that 50+ servers exist without it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Now although this limits me to about 8 servers to play on, of these 8, 5 are dedicated NS, 2 are combat, and one is a mix of both. Trial and error is one of the oldest human abilities.