<!--QuoteBegin-xtcmen+Jul 2 2005, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xtcmen @ Jul 2 2005, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-IBT+Jul 1 2005, 09:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IBT @ Jul 1 2005, 09:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-xtcmen+Jun 29 2005, 09:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xtcmen @ Jun 29 2005, 09:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> IMO rfk is 1337. Usually in Pubs I try to cap as many res nodes as possible (because most of the new players don't do it and the poor comm has no res) After capping, I go around and kill skulks stuff like that and try to get in as much res as possible. More res = win! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you gain res faster = you win faster = shorter games = not good. Hence why RFK = bad. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not neccesarly. You can have all the res in the world, and if your team doesn't use teamwork, your will not win. RFK is helpful in the long games, when you have no nodes. If someone kills like 6 skulks with an HMG, it pays for itself, and you might gain 1, or 2 res out of it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you have no nodes you should lose.
<!--QuoteBegin-Vermillion+Jul 2 2005, 09:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Vermillion @ Jul 2 2005, 09:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Crispy+Jul 2 2005, 06:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ Jul 2 2005, 06:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> RFK also gives a little back to the individual while still benefitting the whole team. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes but it promotes spawn camping(i could care less if leagues are fine with spawn camping) but i have heard way to many comanders saying "spawn campem i need the res" i ban them from my server. The commanders that promote it and the player that do it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> if youre getting spawncamped then the last thing on your mind should be if theyre getting rfk or not
the fact that the object of the game is to kill the thing that spawns enemies promotes spawncamping.
<!--QuoteBegin-Haze+Jul 2 2005, 11:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Haze @ Jul 2 2005, 11:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-xtcmen+Jul 2 2005, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xtcmen @ Jul 2 2005, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-IBT+Jul 1 2005, 09:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IBT @ Jul 1 2005, 09:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-xtcmen+Jun 29 2005, 09:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xtcmen @ Jun 29 2005, 09:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> IMO rfk is 1337. Usually in Pubs I try to cap as many res nodes as possible (because most of the new players don't do it and the poor comm has no res) After capping, I go around and kill skulks stuff like that and try to get in as much res as possible. More res = win! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you gain res faster = you win faster = shorter games = not good. Hence why RFK = bad. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not neccesarly. You can have all the res in the world, and if your team doesn't use teamwork, your will not win. RFK is helpful in the long games, when you have no nodes. If someone kills like 6 skulks with an HMG, it pays for itself, and you might gain 1, or 2 res out of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you have no nodes you should lose. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> not really
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jul 2 2005, 12:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jul 2 2005, 12:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Haze+Jul 2 2005, 11:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Haze @ Jul 2 2005, 11:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-xtcmen+Jul 2 2005, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xtcmen @ Jul 2 2005, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-IBT+Jul 1 2005, 09:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IBT @ Jul 1 2005, 09:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-xtcmen+Jun 29 2005, 09:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xtcmen @ Jun 29 2005, 09:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> IMO rfk is 1337. Usually in Pubs I try to cap as many res nodes as possible (because most of the new players don't do it and the poor comm has no res) After capping, I go around and kill skulks stuff like that and try to get in as much res as possible. More res = win! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you gain res faster = you win faster = shorter games = not good. Hence why RFK = bad. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not neccesarly. You can have all the res in the world, and if your team doesn't use teamwork, your will not win. RFK is helpful in the long games, when you have no nodes. If someone kills like 6 skulks with an HMG, it pays for itself, and you might gain 1, or 2 res out of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you have no nodes you should lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> not really <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes really... if you have no resource nodes and are backed into a corner you should be dead set on losing. If you let all your nodes down you should be at a serious disadvantage and try to get as many up as possible ASAP, not send your troops out to go "frag some aliums." Thats stupid.
<!--QuoteBegin-Haze+Jul 2 2005, 12:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Haze @ Jul 2 2005, 12:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jul 2 2005, 12:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jul 2 2005, 12:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Haze+Jul 2 2005, 11:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Haze @ Jul 2 2005, 11:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-xtcmen+Jul 2 2005, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xtcmen @ Jul 2 2005, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-IBT+Jul 1 2005, 09:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IBT @ Jul 1 2005, 09:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-xtcmen+Jun 29 2005, 09:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xtcmen @ Jun 29 2005, 09:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> IMO rfk is 1337. Usually in Pubs I try to cap as many res nodes as possible (because most of the new players don't do it and the poor comm has no res) After capping, I go around and kill skulks stuff like that and try to get in as much res as possible. More res = win! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you gain res faster = you win faster = shorter games = not good. Hence why RFK = bad. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not neccesarly. You can have all the res in the world, and if your team doesn't use teamwork, your will not win. RFK is helpful in the long games, when you have no nodes. If someone kills like 6 skulks with an HMG, it pays for itself, and you might gain 1, or 2 res out of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you have no nodes you should lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> not really <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes really... if you have no resource nodes and are backed into a corner you should be dead set on losing. If you let all your nodes down you should be at a serious disadvantage and try to get as many up as possible ASAP, not send your troops out to go "frag some aliums." Thats stupid. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> well obviously thats what you do. im not saying if rfk is the awesome power that lets marines come back, im just telling that no rt's = not insta loss. it depends on the situation.
<!--QuoteBegin-Haze+Jun 23 2005, 03:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Haze @ Jun 23 2005, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Stuff <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I haven't read much of the thread, but I must disagree with you about "the great games." I used to play a lot in 1.04, and I only ever saw one or two of the such games, and furthermore those weren't because of slow teching, they were because people secured areas of the map with too strong a foothold because of massive turret farms or OC walls and it was really hard to take over the other teams space since back then turrets and OCs were actually dangerous.
The games at that point were simply almost impossible to turn dynamic, because everyone had lots of res and even heavy training a res spot you were met with too much d and high-res units to take that out, let alone a hive or a rine base or semi-base spot. Basically individual res towers became the focal points instead of hives and it would go around in circles, "aliens take one, rines take one, aliens take it back, rines take theirs back," untill finally one of the teams made a mistake and allowed the other team to get enough res solidly defended to allow them to become dominating.
If anything they were boring after too long.
Besides that, I feel the more 'glorious' games were the excellent clan scrims back then, which hardly ever took more than 20 mins. Talent was so much more present in 1.04, and clans/teams were definitely far more competitive than now. Cri, HAM, RED, STD, cX, PANDA, and a few of the international clans were so incredible, getting the ability to view some of these demos was a real treat; they were so back and forth, and the teams innovated so well. You actually got to see a few strategies that even raised an eyebrow from time to time. It's so sad to see NS's team competition dissapear on such a level.
Hmmmmm,a very interesting post to read. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1- About the single gorge. Didn't like the idea,because the one thing that popped into my head straight away was.....web jetpack. Only 1 gorge to web stuff,this could potentially be a bias towards the jetpack,especially if the gorge needed all 3 hives. Just sounds wrong,cos gorges are quite easy to kill anyway. Any marine team that spawns the gorge,game over aliens. Just seems wrong up against an army of marines who can all build stuff,although directed from a comm.
2-Hive lifeforms. This idea I liked a lot. Early fades can be a problem for some NS games.
3-Having this seems to balance out the lifeform early fade issue,by preventing early shotgun/hmg runs. And with NS continuing to decrease build/research times and up seige power,it would be nice to eventually stop the decreasing of resh time. But having not been a commander,can't really say much in-depth.
4-(Do rines in this version get res for killing aliens?) If brackets be true,no res for killing may or may not be a good idea. Hard to tell unless implemented.
5- Too many people on servers turns games into long slogs of attrition. No no no! I don't want BF-scale servers of 64 people.
6- I'd have to play NS v1.01 to judge this.
Well,the sudden surge of interest to go back to NS's origins has convinced me to download the old NS file. If only to see two things:
*Old-style of gameplay. *NS games lasting 4 hrs? Whoh,you're lucky to get an NS game lasting 30 mins/1 hour these days. (I do prefer the short games...sometimes,but I'd like to feel the good long games that used to occur on 2.xx beta i joined the ns community at)
I agree with everything you brought up. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm interested in playing ns again now but tbh I quit quite some time ago. right after all games became AvP deathmatches :/
Also if I may, I'd like to add the novel concept of an alien commander (the permagorge)
Being the permagorge and leading your team to victory was truly awesome.
<!--QuoteBegin-Misfire+Jun 23 2005, 06:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Misfire @ Jun 23 2005, 06:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> nice post <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not only was it a nice post, it outlined the details as to why ns is nothing better than FPS starcraft and what is was before. It isn't just simple nostalga welling up in the mindless eyes of the believers. NS had one tactical overview one moment, and another the next. We went from 1.0x to 2.0 and had to change how we did everything.
Most first comers to 2.0x see nothing, but us first timers still rememeber when 12 player servers were no less than 1500 pings.
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jul 2 2005, 12:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jul 2 2005, 12:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Haze+Jul 2 2005, 12:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Haze @ Jul 2 2005, 12:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jul 2 2005, 12:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jul 2 2005, 12:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Haze+Jul 2 2005, 11:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Haze @ Jul 2 2005, 11:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-xtcmen+Jul 2 2005, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xtcmen @ Jul 2 2005, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-IBT+Jul 1 2005, 09:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IBT @ Jul 1 2005, 09:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-xtcmen+Jun 29 2005, 09:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xtcmen @ Jun 29 2005, 09:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> IMO rfk is 1337. Usually in Pubs I try to cap as many res nodes as possible (because most of the new players don't do it and the poor comm has no res) After capping, I go around and kill skulks stuff like that and try to get in as much res as possible. More res = win! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you gain res faster = you win faster = shorter games = not good. Hence why RFK = bad. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not neccesarly. You can have all the res in the world, and if your team doesn't use teamwork, your will not win. RFK is helpful in the long games, when you have no nodes. If someone kills like 6 skulks with an HMG, it pays for itself, and you might gain 1, or 2 res out of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you have no nodes you should lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> not really <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes really... if you have no resource nodes and are backed into a corner you should be dead set on losing. If you let all your nodes down you should be at a serious disadvantage and try to get as many up as possible ASAP, not send your troops out to go "frag some aliums." Thats stupid. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> well obviously thats what you do. im not saying if rfk is the awesome power that lets marines come back, im just telling that no rt's = not insta loss. it depends on the situation. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I know it depends on the situation. I'm not saying that if you lose all RTs but still contain a portion of the map safely that you should lose, if the situation is that the marines are cornered and they have no RTs, the situation should be unsalvagable. RFK allows for the cheeky "comebacks" which honostly offer no fun to the alien team. It does nothing to speed up the end game process, which was its original intended effect, but slows it down greatly.
<!--QuoteBegin-Brackhar+Jul 4 2005, 02:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brackhar @ Jul 4 2005, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A very good post. I think you accurately described the advantages that 1.04 had over the current version. Good work.
-Brackhar <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ...while totally ignoring it's every disadvantage. therefore the whole thread has hardly any meaning, except maybe nostalgy.
I absolutely remember the days of NS 1.04. I actually came in and played 1.04 even though I started a mere week after it was released. Its funny that there were four bug fixes in 7 days. I came after the insane turret farms of 1.03. In any case, I palyed NS for about 3 days then decided I wanted to join a clan. I joined cX and signed on as their defense marine since their old one had left or something. At this point I was introduced to the NS scrim and fell in love with it. Playing defense marine I was often the only line of defense against the skulk rush taht always happened in the first 30 seconds of the game. I also remember taking out 5 skulks by myself while defending nancy. Mines were also more useful then with the lazer trips.
In any case, scrims were awesome even if it was mostly refining the marine game. We at cX however tried desperatly to try and work out a good alien game. During the 19 week CAL preseason of 1.04, we managed a few 2-0's with the most notable against HAM. Alien wins were so much more to be excited about. The clans of old seemed a lot more legenedary too with sYn, [ReD], pandas, STD, HAM, cri, cX leading the way. I would imagine though that sYn and terror would have a simply amazing match in a neutral setting.
For those of you that remember also, NSArchives was an awesome site. The first of its kind to support the competitive community, it had things we take for granted such as a top ten list updated with a formula and opinions both, predictions for matches, tournaments, and overall just being the hub of activity for anything competitive.
If anyone actually was in the betas for 2.0, you would remember the build we had completed about two weeks before release. It was quite possibly the most balanced version NS has or ever will have. Unfortunatly it was the most boring thing in the world to play ever. Overall though, it might have been a needed stepping stone to where it is now. Thank the clans that were invited to test for that. We had fun in mind I swear.
Havent there been threads about changing NS to be lik 1.04 but with the current bug fixes? That was a big topic.
When people played 1.04 it eventually reached the point where they were sick of the problems that version had, changes were discussed and a new direction was chosen for game play to make it more accessible to newer players and people who didnt WANT 4 hour 'epic' games.
I do have memories of constantly losing as marine, always always losing. When fades appeared the aliens became too strong and WOL's were everywhere. By this point marines slowly lost, I'm pretty sure this was due to the chamber spam outside the marine base that kept pressure on for marines. But even though I KEPT ON BLOODY DYING, I still had alot of fun playing.
I'm not sure what it was, but by the end I didnt realyl care because I had so much FUN!
Since NS I'snt going back to its roots anytime soon, I think if you want to play 1.04, go download it.
Its funny but I think that if people didnt become aware of the mods flaws it would've stayed at that 1.04 point, but like I said earlier, the problems became bigger and bigger because of their publicity but not their effect on the game, therefore changes were made.
the point is you had fun <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->, and you had room to win anywhere int he game..
I had a 2 hour game on the 1.04 lerk jerky server where the marines had no rt's, and we relocated to a hive. aliens had fades. and we slowly pushed our way out and won. in 3.0 if ur pushed into a hive with no rt's and fades hitting you, you will definantly loose.
Comments
you gain res faster = you win faster = shorter games = not good.
Hence why RFK = bad. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not neccesarly. You can have all the res in the world, and if your team doesn't use teamwork, your will not win. RFK is helpful in the long games, when you have no nodes. If someone kills like 6 skulks with an HMG, it pays for itself, and you might gain 1, or 2 res out of it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you have no nodes you should lose.
yes but it promotes spawn camping(i could care less if leagues are fine with spawn camping) but i have heard way to many comanders saying "spawn campem i need the res" i ban them from my server. The commanders that promote it and the player that do it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
if youre getting spawncamped then the last thing on your mind should be if theyre getting rfk or not
the fact that the object of the game is to kill the thing that spawns enemies promotes spawncamping.
you gain res faster = you win faster = shorter games = not good.
Hence why RFK = bad. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not neccesarly. You can have all the res in the world, and if your team doesn't use teamwork, your will not win. RFK is helpful in the long games, when you have no nodes. If someone kills like 6 skulks with an HMG, it pays for itself, and you might gain 1, or 2 res out of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you have no nodes you should lose. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
not really
you gain res faster = you win faster = shorter games = not good.
Hence why RFK = bad. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not neccesarly. You can have all the res in the world, and if your team doesn't use teamwork, your will not win. RFK is helpful in the long games, when you have no nodes. If someone kills like 6 skulks with an HMG, it pays for itself, and you might gain 1, or 2 res out of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you have no nodes you should lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not really <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes really... if you have no resource nodes and are backed into a corner you should be dead set on losing. If you let all your nodes down you should be at a serious disadvantage and try to get as many up as possible ASAP, not send your troops out to go "frag some aliums." Thats stupid.
you gain res faster = you win faster = shorter games = not good.
Hence why RFK = bad. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not neccesarly. You can have all the res in the world, and if your team doesn't use teamwork, your will not win. RFK is helpful in the long games, when you have no nodes. If someone kills like 6 skulks with an HMG, it pays for itself, and you might gain 1, or 2 res out of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you have no nodes you should lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not really <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes really... if you have no resource nodes and are backed into a corner you should be dead set on losing. If you let all your nodes down you should be at a serious disadvantage and try to get as many up as possible ASAP, not send your troops out to go "frag some aliums." Thats stupid. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
well obviously thats what you do. im not saying if rfk is the awesome power that lets marines come back, im just telling that no rt's = not insta loss. it depends on the situation.
I haven't read much of the thread, but I must disagree with you about "the great games." I used to play a lot in 1.04, and I only ever saw one or two of the such games, and furthermore those weren't because of slow teching, they were because people secured areas of the map with too strong a foothold because of massive turret farms or OC walls and it was really hard to take over the other teams space since back then turrets and OCs were actually dangerous.
The games at that point were simply almost impossible to turn dynamic, because everyone had lots of res and even heavy training a res spot you were met with too much d and high-res units to take that out, let alone a hive or a rine base or semi-base spot. Basically individual res towers became the focal points instead of hives and it would go around in circles, "aliens take one, rines take one, aliens take it back, rines take theirs back," untill finally one of the teams made a mistake and allowed the other team to get enough res solidly defended to allow them to become dominating.
If anything they were boring after too long.
Besides that, I feel the more 'glorious' games were the excellent clan scrims back then, which hardly ever took more than 20 mins. Talent was so much more present in 1.04, and clans/teams were definitely far more competitive than now. Cri, HAM, RED, STD, cX, PANDA, and a few of the international clans were so incredible, getting the ability to view some of these demos was a real treat; they were so back and forth, and the teams innovated so well. You actually got to see a few strategies that even raised an eyebrow from time to time. It's so sad to see NS's team competition dissapear on such a level.
That's probably what I miss most about 1.04.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=95477' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....showtopic=95477</a>
1- About the single gorge. Didn't like the idea,because the one thing that popped into my head straight away was.....web jetpack. Only 1 gorge to web stuff,this could potentially be a bias towards the jetpack,especially if the gorge needed all 3 hives. Just sounds wrong,cos gorges are quite easy to kill anyway. Any marine team that spawns the gorge,game over aliens. Just seems wrong up against an army of marines who can all build stuff,although directed from a comm.
2-Hive lifeforms. This idea I liked a lot. Early fades can be a problem for some NS games.
3-Having this seems to balance out the lifeform early fade issue,by preventing early shotgun/hmg runs. And with NS continuing to decrease build/research times and up seige power,it would be nice to eventually stop the decreasing of resh time. But having not been a commander,can't really say much in-depth.
4-(Do rines in this version get res for killing aliens?) If brackets be true,no res for killing may or may not be a good idea. Hard to tell unless implemented.
5- Too many people on servers turns games into long slogs of attrition. No no no! I don't want BF-scale servers of 64 people.
6- I'd have to play NS v1.01 to judge this.
Well,the sudden surge of interest to go back to NS's origins has convinced me to download the old NS file. If only to see two things:
*Old-style of gameplay.
*NS games lasting 4 hrs? Whoh,you're lucky to get an NS game lasting 30 mins/1 hour these days. (I do prefer the short games...sometimes,but I'd like to feel the good long games that used to occur on 2.xx beta i joined the ns community at)
I'm interested in playing ns again now but tbh I quit quite some time ago. right after all games became AvP deathmatches :/
Also if I may, I'd like to add the novel concept of an alien commander (the permagorge)
Being the permagorge and leading your team to victory was truly awesome.
Not only was it a nice post, it outlined the details as to why ns is nothing better than FPS starcraft and what is was before. It isn't just simple nostalga welling up in the mindless eyes of the believers. NS had one tactical overview one moment, and another the next. We went from 1.0x to 2.0 and had to change how we did everything.
Most first comers to 2.0x see nothing, but us first timers still rememeber when 12 player servers were no less than 1500 pings.
you gain res faster = you win faster = shorter games = not good.
Hence why RFK = bad. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not neccesarly. You can have all the res in the world, and if your team doesn't use teamwork, your will not win. RFK is helpful in the long games, when you have no nodes. If someone kills like 6 skulks with an HMG, it pays for itself, and you might gain 1, or 2 res out of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you have no nodes you should lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not really <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes really... if you have no resource nodes and are backed into a corner you should be dead set on losing. If you let all your nodes down you should be at a serious disadvantage and try to get as many up as possible ASAP, not send your troops out to go "frag some aliums." Thats stupid. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well obviously thats what you do. im not saying if rfk is the awesome power that lets marines come back, im just telling that no rt's = not insta loss. it depends on the situation. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know it depends on the situation. I'm not saying that if you lose all RTs but still contain a portion of the map safely that you should lose, if the situation is that the marines are cornered and they have no RTs, the situation should be unsalvagable. RFK allows for the cheeky "comebacks" which honostly offer no fun to the alien team. It does nothing to speed up the end game process, which was its original intended effect, but slows it down greatly.
-Brackhar
-Brackhar <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
...while totally ignoring it's every disadvantage. therefore the whole thread has hardly any meaning, except maybe nostalgy.
In any case, scrims were awesome even if it was mostly refining the marine game. We at cX however tried desperatly to try and work out a good alien game. During the 19 week CAL preseason of 1.04, we managed a few 2-0's with the most notable against HAM. Alien wins were so much more to be excited about. The clans of old seemed a lot more legenedary too with sYn, [ReD], pandas, STD, HAM, cri, cX leading the way. I would imagine though that sYn and terror would have a simply amazing match in a neutral setting.
For those of you that remember also, NSArchives was an awesome site. The first of its kind to support the competitive community, it had things we take for granted such as a top ten list updated with a formula and opinions both, predictions for matches, tournaments, and overall just being the hub of activity for anything competitive.
If anyone actually was in the betas for 2.0, you would remember the build we had completed about two weeks before release. It was quite possibly the most balanced version NS has or ever will have. Unfortunatly it was the most boring thing in the world to play ever. Overall though, it might have been a needed stepping stone to where it is now. Thank the clans that were invited to test for that. We had fun in mind I swear.
When people played 1.04 it eventually reached the point where they were sick of the problems that version had, changes were discussed and a new direction was chosen for game play to make it more accessible to newer players and people who didnt WANT 4 hour 'epic' games.
I do have memories of constantly losing as marine, always always losing. When fades appeared the aliens became too strong and WOL's were everywhere. By this point marines slowly lost, I'm pretty sure this was due to the chamber spam outside the marine base that kept pressure on for marines. But even though I KEPT ON BLOODY DYING, I still had alot of fun playing.
I'm not sure what it was, but by the end I didnt realyl care because I had so much FUN!
Since NS I'snt going back to its roots anytime soon, I think if you want to play 1.04, go download it.
Its funny but I think that if people didnt become aware of the mods flaws it would've stayed at that 1.04 point, but like I said earlier, the problems became bigger and bigger because of their publicity but not their effect on the game, therefore changes were made.
I had a 2 hour game on the 1.04 lerk jerky server where the marines had no rt's, and we relocated to a hive. aliens had fades. and we slowly pushed our way out and won. in 3.0 if ur pushed into a hive with no rt's and fades hitting you, you will definantly loose.