<!--QuoteBegin-Ravatar+Jul 1 2005, 09:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ravatar @ Jul 1 2005, 09:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> - Play a server that caters to your playstyle. - Convince a clan to host a public server. - Get a group of friends to host a server. - Pitch in to a player community hosts a server, by buying a reserve slot, etc. - Wait around for one to become available, or in the meantime play one that's not exactly your favorite playstyle. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You're forgetting the other option -- the easiest one.
Playing a different game.
NS is a great game, but for some people, the annoyances weigh more heavily then the greatness.
I like to compare completely different genre's because it's cool and witty. Where NS adds lerk's primal scream, SC 2 adds soul charge, WTH SC 2 sucks. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> what does genre matter. its the difference in attitudes that is being pointed out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> An attitude that came after the implementation of the cvar, not before.
Keep this thread going please, its a barrel of laughs, but less of the "buy your own server kthx" Thats an extrememly weak argument. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Here's a better one then:
Where Honda releases the Insight, Hummer releases the H2.
Both are valid concepts, and both have large followings. Whose to say which is right and which is wrong? That same comment applies to the WoW/NS comment. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You're comparing a motor company to another I'm comparing a video game to another
One fine point: My comparison is a miniscule part of a company's product; the video game's cvar, not the entire game. Yours, is the entire car. Your analogy sucks.
Your comparison would have been much better had you compared a hemi to a stock chevy... Even that is too large, but you get my point. One alters completely to the aspect of the game, and it's buyer (or player).
When someone comes to NS from CS, DoD, HLDM, joins a server to see their their good old pistol script, or bunnyhop script doesn't work on the majority of the servers they join, if not all before they decide to quit, not knowing how to fix it, or caring... You've lost a player.
When someone joins WoW, and sees the ability to recreate their keyboard and game to their own desire to aid their playing, they begin to explore its infinite possibilities. You've gained a player, and that person may now have a new love for macroing, and your product.
You think of one bad thing that WoW players have gotten out of the macro editor, <i>and permission for EVERYONE to edit their playing style alike</i>, and I'll give you a cookie. You think of one bad thing NS has out of blockscripts, and you'll be like everyone else arguing in this thread, on servers, and you'll think to yourself about the huge gap that's being further spread between the competitive and public community by this cvar.
There is boarderline no reason left for the NS team to continue to use the mp_BS variable in thier game. Only 3-4 exploititive scripts still remain, and those can all be removed via simple change to scripting functions. The current BS inclusion alienates a large segment of the player base and should not be supported by development any longer. "choice" for server admins still exists. They can still block scripts via plugin should they choose to. But it is high time the NS team stops fixing it's problems with wide sweeping moves that alienate players rather then just removing the source of the problems.
Why not include server side variables like "MP_noforward" which unbinds all forward movement for all players? or "mp_randomdeath" which is self explanitory.
We don't need server side variables to give server admins more ways to abuse thier patrons, server variables should be funcional and useful. Blockscripts is just about at the point where it is no longer either.
Once again, scripts benefit the semi-skilled pubbers more than it does clanners. Clanners can play with or without because they know the game in and out. You do not.
All you're doing is crippling yourself, so don't whine when a clanner comes in and destroys all your walker skulks because they can't bhop.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You're comparing a motor company to another I'm comparing a video game to another
One fine point: My comparison is a miniscule part of a company's product; the video game's cvar, not the entire game. Yours, is the entire car. Your analogy sucks. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're comparing one company's video game feature to another company's video game feature. I'm comparing one company's car feature to another company's car feature.
Gas mileage. The insight gets 55-60MPG, the hummer 9-12. This is by design on both cars. My analogy is identical to your analogy in concept. "While one company is striving for super high gas mileage, the other one is going for less mileage." This is because one company has different GOALS than the other company.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When someone comes to NS from CS, DoD, HLDM, joins a server to see their their good old pistol script, or bunnyhop script doesn't work on the majority of the servers they join, if not all before they decide to quit, not knowing how to fix it, or caring... You've lost a player.
When someone joins WoW, and sees the ability to recreate their keyboard and game to their own desire to aid their playing, they begin to explore its infinite possibilities. You've gained a player, and that person may now have a new love for macroing, and your product. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is assuming that all players are the same, and love scripting and couldn't live without it, and as I said before, are completely different genres. But anyways...
What is this new player doing using pistol scripts and triple jump if he doesn't know how they work or where they are enabled? Perhaps he should play the game with skill and reflex before he tries to make the game easier to play. (Which is IMO how ns was meant to be played.)
Anyway, would I quit the game if WoW didn't have a macro system? Of course not, the basic controls + hotbar do a fine job of managing actions. Would I quit the game if NS didn't allow scripting anywhere? Of course not, the basic controls do a fine job of managing actions.
Many of the arguments have already been adressed by other forum members back in the day, almost all of them coming from <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84913&view=findpost&p=1321046' target='_blank'>this thread.</a>
I keep seeing people who claim scripts are EV1L and that server operators can continue to run their servers how they want. What is wrong with these arguments? Since everyone ignored my other post, might as well as make another one...
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84913&view=findpost&p=1323925' target='_blank'>The fallacy of why server ops can run their game how they want</a> <--- This link is also to where Necrosis got his custom title, "The locoqutius sage" or however you spell it.
I think that the scripting debates are a re-occuring trend on these forums...
However I do notice that more and more people eventually go over to the "pro-script" side over time.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravatar+Jul 2 2005, 05:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ravatar @ Jul 2 2005, 05:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What is this new player doing using pistol scripts and triple jump if he doesn't know how they work or where they are enabled? Perhaps he should play the game with skill and reflex before he tries to make the game easier to play. (Which is IMO how ns was meant to be played.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I said new to NS, not Half-Life. What.. do you think we're the only community that scripts?
You play your game with skill and reflex, and I'll play mine with skill and reflex, with my little added configs. All it will come down to in the end, is I can aim better than you. No matter what way you look at it. My lmg vs your skulk, script no script, wouldn't make a difference. My bunnyhop to your marine, script no script, really wouldn't make a difference. It's been said time and time again. I've played in the GamingOrb tournaments for TeamUS, which don't permit scripts. Every player on the TeamUS team played without scripts for the tournament, though we play daily with them in pubs and scrims, yet we dominated every team we played, except the last game I played we were 3-1'd, and that was duo's fault.
Now, saying that people should learn the game with skill and reflex, then be permitted to script, or .. 'make the game easier' is a dumb and biased opinion. People, like in any other game ever, should be given the ability, as was from the start, and full half-life intentions for.. how many years now?, to adjust their playing style to make it how easy they want, whenever they want, without bringing any sort of obvious cheat into play.
Replying with 'LOL SCRIPTING IS CHEATING, BECAUSE IF IT WASN'T THEN MP_BS WOULDN'T BE IN THE GAME' mp_blockscripts was fixed, and thrown back into the game by an EXCEPTIONALLY biased, 18 year old, nuisance and his cohorts, who felt giving the admin the option to turn off scripts (which have a horrible stigma to those who don't know what they are, because of people who suggest it isn't 'fair play', though they are given the same opportunity by CAL, VALVe.. hell, any company BESIDES unknown worlds) and leaving it default on 0, would solve all problems for, back then, people who didn't know what scripts were, and argued it was cheating.
SORRY VOOGRU YOU WERE WRONG. Just making the gap bigger, kid. Congrats.
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jun 29 2005, 11:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jun 29 2005, 11:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 29 2005, 05:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 29 2005, 05:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wasn't referring to clans only use scripts, because its ignorant and down right foolish to generalize. If your going to take away a script like 3hop you might as well disable the mousewheel for jumping, force the gamma and brightness to one level for everyone, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> dont give them ideas, sigh <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The true problem with this way of thinking is the fact that people don't have equal computers and therefor some people can still have a very light setting ingame due to bad/very graphic cards and/or moniters. If we STILL are going this way, we need unchangeable controls and a lot of new mp_blockvaribles for example: programable keyboard/gamepads/mouses or usermade drivers.
It's like a circel, it has no end.
I quit ns because of mp_blockscript, lack of time and lack of intrest.
In regards to WOW's macro system. The reason they made it in game, was because if they didn't, players would use a 3rd party program to do it for them.
But because, its in game, Blizzard can monitor what kind of macros your running ect.
I remember, when I used to play Eve-Online. I had that game so macroed out.. I didnt even have to play the game anymore.. Yeah I am serious... The game played it for me.. Was pretty cool. And I sold the stuff on Ebay and made thousands... Ah.. but did I mention that also killed the game.. :/
You had ppl who couldnt grasp computer languages or complex scripts.. though this script was more like a program.. was that damn complicated..
Anyways, in regards to all you scripting player who whine that you have to change all your binds ect manually when on a bs off server.. Are you guys daft?? Or wait.. let me guess.. you just copy and pasted your scripts.. Ah.. Well.. it would be smart to have 2 configs you could execute via console when joining a certain server... I know thats a bit too complicated for some of you script kiddies.. but then again.. Some of you guys know what I am talking about.
<!--QuoteBegin-Wither+Jul 2 2005, 06:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wither @ Jul 2 2005, 06:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How does fixing a server cvar included back in <b>2.0</b> make him biased?
You're too desperate to flame someone to make a reliable case, sorry. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it was his topic called, "It's time for scripters to die" pretty much earns him that title.
<!--QuoteBegin-Jstek+Jul 2 2005, 07:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jstek @ Jul 2 2005, 07:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In regards to WOW's macro system. The reason they made it in game, was because if they didn't, players would use a 3rd party program to do it for them.
But because, its in game, Blizzard can monitor what kind of macros your running ect.
I remember, when I used to play Eve-Online. I had that game so macroed out.. I didnt even have to play the game anymore.. Yeah I am serious... The game played it for me.. Was pretty cool. And I sold the stuff on Ebay and made thousands... Ah.. but did I mention that also killed the game.. :/
You had ppl who couldnt grasp computer languages or complex scripts.. though this script was more like a program.. was that damn complicated..
Anyways, in regards to all you scripting player who whine that you have to change all your binds ect manually when on a bs off server.. Are you guys daft?? Or wait.. let me guess.. you just copy and pasted your scripts.. Ah.. Well.. it would be smart to have 2 configs you could execute via console when joining a certain server... I know thats a bit too complicated for some of you script kiddies.. but then again.. Some of you guys know what I am talking about.
--Jstek <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And you can do NOTHING near that complex in NS/HL. This just goes to further show exactly how ignorant you are TBH.
I like to compare completely different genre's because it's cool and witty. Where NS adds lerk's primal scream, SC 2 adds soul charge, WTH SC 2 sucks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How did I miss this amazing post?
The point of the analogy is that Blizzard is a hugely successful gaming company that embraces macros (scripts taken to the next level). Yet unknown worlds bans them.
Guess who's making the mistake? Blizzard knows that if they try to ban it, it will surely fail, and plenty of people will just make 3rd party macro's to work around it. But if they embrace it, they can also monitor what macro's are being used as well.
There exists macro's that work with NS that have been around since 1.04, and get around blockscripts just fine, are completely undectible, and are... spreading.
Guess why they are spreading? Because mp_blockscripts was implemented. Pretty soon scripting won't even be part of the question... someday we can all just use the macro forum for NS.
Before, with the scripting engine with NS, things could be controlled. But macro's for NS can do much more than scripts ever could. People used to be content with plain old scripts. But now you have people who are going to spread macro's. They would have never used macro's either, had it not been for mp_blockscripts.
Nessecity is the mother of all innovation and because people are being forced to change their way to play they are going to fight it, and the victory against mp_blockscripts lies in macro's.
No matter how you look at it, mp_blockscripts doesn't accomplish anything.
Well i'm too lazy to post anymore <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
NGE, dragonmech, jamesbondguy7, the commie, and properly some more has some very good points and i see no reason to add more to this.
<!--QuoteBegin-OnESabreWulf+Jul 2 2005, 09:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OnESabreWulf @ Jul 2 2005, 09:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My last post on this topic because it can go on forever. lol
Honestly guys I like to know since you all have been spoiled by scripts. Can anyone here play with no scripts at all?
Just have a normal config file and go on a pub and try to play with non scripted cfg files? Is it possible that you can play with out any scripts? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Obviously. Do you really think this is a meaningful question? Just how much of an advantage do you think scripts give people?
<!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Jul 3 2005, 02:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Jul 3 2005, 02:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think it was his topic called, "It's time for scripters to die" pretty much earns him that title.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I never argued his personal opinions, I'm simply arguing the fact that the bug fix had anything to do with it.
Voogru's fixing of a long list of outstanding bugs was great work on his part, people seem to think he was behind the implementation of the blockscript feature when he had little to do with the decision to do so.
<!--QuoteBegin-Wither+Jul 2 2005, 09:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wither @ Jul 2 2005, 09:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Jul 3 2005, 02:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Jul 3 2005, 02:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think it was his topic called, "It's time for scripters to die" pretty much earns him that title.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I never argued his personal opinions, I'm simply arguing the fact that the bug fix had anything to do with it.
Voogru's fixing of a long list of outstanding bugs was great work on his part, people seem to think he was behind the implementation of the blockscript feature when he had little to do with the decision to do so.
But hey, lets all be ignorant some more. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We need a figure to direct the two minutes hate towards, <i>duh</i>.
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2005
Direct it at me instead then. You have no idea how much grief I've been causing you.
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
edited July 2005
^^
people need to stop harping on Voogro for doing his effing job. When it boils down to it B S was included in 2.0 but didn't work. Voogru was taken on as a coder past 3.0 and one of his task was to "fix" it.
A BS that prevented the really explotive stuff you can do with scripts but didn't hamper common scripts as 3jump, meds, heck even pulling down your console and inputing +left to avoid an AFKicker would be wonderfull
I honestly think BS was put in as a server variable to get more constellation donations.
Keep the pubbers happy, and they are more likely to donate than the competitve community (some of which feel they should be paid to play this game).
The pub community is bigger and more generous with their paypal accounts.
Why else appease the masses for a game that is designed for high level teamwork that can only be achieved in competitive play?
Enough people complain, if they don't get what they want they leave, and possibly take other potential donators with them.
as stated earlier, BS 1 players are often maladaptive, so just mop the floor with a BS 1 config, its not that hard to change around a button or two.
The best thing to do in a BS 1 server is to slaughter everyone, and then examine the excuses of they lose. Man those really crack me up. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Server variables will not close the skill gap, only knowledge and successful execution of whatever is learned will do that. Allow the BS 1 players with their illusions, as the regulars will most likely try to get you banned for some BS reason.
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Jul 3 2005, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Jul 3 2005, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I honestly think BS was put in as a server variable to get more constellation donations.
Keep the pubbers happy, and they are more likely to donate than the competitve community (some of which feel they should be paid to play this game).
The pub community is bigger and more generous with their paypal accounts.
Why else appease the masses for a game that is designed for high level teamwork that can only be achieved in competitive play? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/TSA_Skin-975/icon2.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> Here we go again... This thread has absolutely nowhere to go but downhill, can it please be locked?
I think it should be apparent that voogru's own personal opinions didn't mean squat to the development process of NS, at least as far as this cvar is concerned, but people need a scapegoat. Voogru did somewhat bring it on himself with his blatantly inflammatory remarks regarding scripts, and his venomonus hatred for them probably wasn't very fitting for a dev's public persona, but ultimately that never made any difference outside of his servers.
best fix for all of this is to just incorporate the pistol and 3 jump into the game for everone to use( if they want to ) and then just block everything else.
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 3 2005, 02:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 3 2005, 02:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Voogru being a dev is like me being a dev, you just don't do it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why? If you were watching Mantis while he was active you'd see just how much work he got done. I can't say I enjoy his servers, but he did his job well.
Comments
- Convince a clan to host a public server.
- Get a group of friends to host a server.
- Pitch in to a player community hosts a server, by buying a reserve slot, etc.
- Wait around for one to become available, or in the meantime play one that's not exactly your favorite playstyle. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're forgetting the other option -- the easiest one.
Playing a different game.
NS is a great game, but for some people, the annoyances weigh more heavily then the greatness.
-Forlorn <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hi,
I like to compare completely different genre's because it's cool and witty. Where NS adds lerk's primal scream, SC 2 adds soul charge, WTH SC 2 sucks. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what does genre matter. its the difference in attitudes that is being pointed out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An attitude that came after the implementation of the cvar, not before.
Keep this thread going please, its a barrel of laughs, but less of the "buy your own server kthx" Thats an extrememly weak argument. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here's a better one then:
Where Honda releases the Insight, Hummer releases the H2.
Both are valid concepts, and both have large followings. Whose to say which is right and which is wrong? That same comment applies to the WoW/NS comment. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're comparing a motor company to another
I'm comparing a video game to another
One fine point: My comparison is a miniscule part of a company's product; the video game's cvar, not the entire game. Yours, is the entire car. Your analogy sucks.
Your comparison would have been much better had you compared a hemi to a stock chevy... Even that is too large, but you get my point. One alters completely to the aspect of the game, and it's buyer (or player).
When someone comes to NS from CS, DoD, HLDM, joins a server to see their their good old pistol script, or bunnyhop script doesn't work on the majority of the servers they join, if not all before they decide to quit, not knowing how to fix it, or caring... You've lost a player.
When someone joins WoW, and sees the ability to recreate their keyboard and game to their own desire to aid their playing, they begin to explore its infinite possibilities. You've gained a player, and that person may now have a new love for macroing, and your product.
You think of one bad thing that WoW players have gotten out of the macro editor, <i>and permission for EVERYONE to edit their playing style alike</i>, and I'll give you a cookie. You think of one bad thing NS has out of blockscripts, and you'll be like everyone else arguing in this thread, on servers, and you'll think to yourself about the huge gap that's being further spread between the competitive and public community by this cvar.
Why not include server side variables like "MP_noforward" which unbinds all forward movement for all players? or "mp_randomdeath" which is self explanitory.
We don't need server side variables to give server admins more ways to abuse thier patrons, server variables should be funcional and useful. Blockscripts is just about at the point where it is no longer either.
All you're doing is crippling yourself, so don't whine when a clanner comes in and destroys all your walker skulks because they can't bhop.
I'm comparing a video game to another
One fine point: My comparison is a miniscule part of a company's product; the video game's cvar, not the entire game. Yours, is the entire car. Your analogy sucks.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're comparing one company's video game feature to another company's video game feature. I'm comparing one company's car feature to another company's car feature.
Gas mileage. The insight gets 55-60MPG, the hummer 9-12. This is by design on both cars. My analogy is identical to your analogy in concept. "While one company is striving for super high gas mileage, the other one is going for less mileage." This is because one company has different GOALS than the other company.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
When someone comes to NS from CS, DoD, HLDM, joins a server to see their their good old pistol script, or bunnyhop script doesn't work on the majority of the servers they join, if not all before they decide to quit, not knowing how to fix it, or caring... You've lost a player.
When someone joins WoW, and sees the ability to recreate their keyboard and game to their own desire to aid their playing, they begin to explore its infinite possibilities. You've gained a player, and that person may now have a new love for macroing, and your product.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is assuming that all players are the same, and love scripting and couldn't live without it, and as I said before, are completely different genres. But anyways...
What is this new player doing using pistol scripts and triple jump if he doesn't know how they work or where they are enabled? Perhaps he should play the game with skill and reflex before he tries to make the game easier to play. (Which is IMO how ns was meant to be played.)
Anyway, would I quit the game if WoW didn't have a macro system? Of course not, the basic controls + hotbar do a fine job of managing actions. Would I quit the game if NS didn't allow scripting anywhere? Of course not, the basic controls do a fine job of managing actions.
NSArmslab.com Veterans Classic NS3.05F - 70.85.21.249:27015
NSArmslab.com Classic NS 3.04F - 67.19.204.37:27015
FR31NS FTW -[NS Only]- www.fr31ns.com - 216.152.242.219:27015
Usually they are at least partially full.
And for the UK people...
Wireplay UK NS [Classictastic][NS only] - 195.224.41.48:27015
e-FRAG.co.uk | [Pfff] NS Server 1 - 83.142.52.62:27015
I keep seeing people who claim scripts are EV1L and that server operators can continue to run their servers how they want. What is wrong with these arguments? Since everyone ignored my other post, might as well as make another one...
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84913&view=findpost&p=1323925' target='_blank'>The fallacy of why server ops can run their game how they want</a> <--- This link is also to where Necrosis got his custom title, "The locoqutius sage" or however you spell it.
I think that the scripting debates are a re-occuring trend on these forums...
However I do notice that more and more people eventually go over to the "pro-script" side over time.
I said new to NS, not Half-Life. What.. do you think we're the only community that scripts?
You play your game with skill and reflex, and I'll play mine with skill and reflex, with my little added configs. All it will come down to in the end, is I can aim better than you. No matter what way you look at it. My lmg vs your skulk, script no script, wouldn't make a difference. My bunnyhop to your marine, script no script, really wouldn't make a difference. It's been said time and time again. I've played in the GamingOrb tournaments for TeamUS, which don't permit scripts. Every player on the TeamUS team played without scripts for the tournament, though we play daily with them in pubs and scrims, yet we dominated every team we played, except the last game I played we were 3-1'd, and that was duo's fault.
Now, saying that people should learn the game with skill and reflex, then be permitted to script, or .. 'make the game easier' is a dumb and biased opinion. People, like in any other game ever, should be given the ability, as was from the start, and full half-life intentions for.. how many years now?, to adjust their playing style to make it how easy they want, whenever they want, without bringing any sort of obvious cheat into play.
Replying with 'LOL SCRIPTING IS CHEATING, BECAUSE IF IT WASN'T THEN MP_BS WOULDN'T BE IN THE GAME' mp_blockscripts was fixed, and thrown back into the game by an EXCEPTIONALLY biased, 18 year old, nuisance and his cohorts, who felt giving the admin the option to turn off scripts (which have a horrible stigma to those who don't know what they are, because of people who suggest it isn't 'fair play', though they are given the same opportunity by CAL, VALVe.. hell, any company BESIDES unknown worlds) and leaving it default on 0, would solve all problems for, back then, people who didn't know what scripts were, and argued it was cheating.
SORRY VOOGRU YOU WERE WRONG. Just making the gap bigger, kid. Congrats.
You're too desperate to flame someone to make a reliable case, sorry.
dont give them ideas, sigh <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The true problem with this way of thinking is the fact that people don't have equal computers and therefor some people can still have a very light setting ingame due to bad/very graphic cards and/or moniters. If we STILL are going this way, we need unchangeable controls and a lot of new mp_blockvaribles for example: programable keyboard/gamepads/mouses or usermade drivers.
It's like a circel, it has no end.
I quit ns because of mp_blockscript, lack of time and lack of intrest.
But because, its in game, Blizzard can monitor what kind of macros your running ect.
I remember, when I used to play Eve-Online. I had that game so macroed out.. I didnt even have to play the game anymore.. Yeah I am serious... The game played it for me.. Was pretty cool. And I sold the stuff on Ebay and made thousands... Ah.. but did I mention that also killed the game.. :/
You had ppl who couldnt grasp computer languages or complex scripts.. though this script was more like a program.. was that damn complicated..
Anyways, in regards to all you scripting player who whine that you have to change all your binds ect manually when on a bs off server.. Are you guys daft?? Or wait.. let me guess.. you just copy and pasted your scripts.. Ah.. Well.. it would be smart to have 2 configs you could execute via console when joining a certain server... I know thats a bit too complicated for some of you script kiddies.. but then again.. Some of you guys know what I am talking about.
--Jstek
You're too desperate to flame someone to make a reliable case, sorry. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it was his topic called, "It's time for scripters to die" pretty much earns him that title.
But because, its in game, Blizzard can monitor what kind of macros your running ect.
I remember, when I used to play Eve-Online. I had that game so macroed out.. I didnt even have to play the game anymore.. Yeah I am serious... The game played it for me.. Was pretty cool. And I sold the stuff on Ebay and made thousands... Ah.. but did I mention that also killed the game.. :/
You had ppl who couldnt grasp computer languages or complex scripts.. though this script was more like a program.. was that damn complicated..
Anyways, in regards to all you scripting player who whine that you have to change all your binds ect manually when on a bs off server.. Are you guys daft?? Or wait.. let me guess.. you just copy and pasted your scripts.. Ah.. Well.. it would be smart to have 2 configs you could execute via console when joining a certain server... I know thats a bit too complicated for some of you script kiddies.. but then again.. Some of you guys know what I am talking about.
--Jstek <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you can do NOTHING near that complex in NS/HL. This just goes to further show exactly how ignorant you are TBH.
-Forlorn <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hi,
I like to compare completely different genre's because it's cool and witty. Where NS adds lerk's primal scream, SC 2 adds soul charge, WTH SC 2 sucks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
How did I miss this amazing post?
The point of the analogy is that Blizzard is a hugely successful gaming company that embraces macros (scripts taken to the next level). Yet unknown worlds bans them.
Guess who's making the mistake? Blizzard knows that if they try to ban it, it will surely fail, and plenty of people will just make 3rd party macro's to work around it. But if they embrace it, they can also monitor what macro's are being used as well.
There exists macro's that work with NS that have been around since 1.04, and get around blockscripts just fine, are completely undectible, and are... spreading.
Guess why they are spreading? Because mp_blockscripts was implemented. Pretty soon scripting won't even be part of the question... someday we can all just use the macro forum for NS.
Before, with the scripting engine with NS, things could be controlled. But macro's for NS can do much more than scripts ever could. People used to be content with plain old scripts. But now you have people who are going to spread macro's. They would have never used macro's either, had it not been for mp_blockscripts.
Nessecity is the mother of all innovation and because people are being forced to change their way to play they are going to fight it, and the victory against mp_blockscripts lies in macro's.
No matter how you look at it, mp_blockscripts doesn't accomplish anything.
Honestly guys I like to know since you all have been spoiled by scripts.
Can anyone here play with no scripts at all?
Just have a normal config file and go on a pub and try to play with non scripted cfg files?
Is it possible that you can play with out any scripts?
NGE, dragonmech, jamesbondguy7, the commie, and properly some more has some very good points and i see no reason to add more to this.
Honestly guys I like to know since you all have been spoiled by scripts.
Can anyone here play with no scripts at all?
Just have a normal config file and go on a pub and try to play with non scripted cfg files?
Is it possible that you can play with out any scripts? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously. Do you really think this is a meaningful question? Just how much of an advantage do you think scripts give people?
I never argued his personal opinions, I'm simply arguing the fact that the bug fix had anything to do with it.
Voogru's fixing of a long list of outstanding bugs was great work on his part, people seem to think he was behind the implementation of the blockscript feature when he had little to do with the decision to do so.
But hey, lets all be ignorant some more.
I never argued his personal opinions, I'm simply arguing the fact that the bug fix had anything to do with it.
Voogru's fixing of a long list of outstanding bugs was great work on his part, people seem to think he was behind the implementation of the blockscript feature when he had little to do with the decision to do so.
But hey, lets all be ignorant some more. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
We need a figure to direct the two minutes hate towards, <i>duh</i>.
people need to stop harping on Voogro for doing his effing job. When it boils down to it B S was included in 2.0 but didn't work. Voogru was taken on as a coder past 3.0 and one of his task was to "fix" it.
A BS that prevented the really explotive stuff you can do with scripts but didn't hamper common scripts as 3jump, meds, heck even pulling down your console and inputing +left to avoid an AFKicker would be wonderfull
Keep the pubbers happy, and they are more likely to donate than the competitve community (some of which feel they should be paid to play this game).
The pub community is bigger and more generous with their paypal accounts.
Why else appease the masses for a game that is designed for high level teamwork that can only be achieved in competitive play?
Enough people complain, if they don't get what they want they leave, and possibly take other potential donators with them.
as stated earlier, BS 1 players are often maladaptive, so just mop the floor with a BS 1 config, its not that hard to change around a button or two.
The best thing to do in a BS 1 server is to slaughter everyone, and then examine the excuses of they lose. Man those really crack me up. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Server variables will not close the skill gap, only knowledge and successful execution of whatever is learned will do that. Allow the BS 1 players with their illusions, as the regulars will most likely try to get you banned for some BS reason.
Keep the pubbers happy, and they are more likely to donate than the competitve community (some of which feel they should be paid to play this game).
The pub community is bigger and more generous with their paypal accounts.
Why else appease the masses for a game that is designed for high level teamwork that can only be achieved in competitive play? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/TSA_Skin-975/icon2.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> Here we go again... This thread has absolutely nowhere to go but downhill, can it please be locked?
I think it should be apparent that voogru's own personal opinions didn't mean squat to the development process of NS, at least as far as this cvar is concerned, but people need a scapegoat. Voogru did somewhat bring it on himself with his blatantly inflammatory remarks regarding scripts, and his venomonus hatred for them probably wasn't very fitting for a dev's public persona, but ultimately that never made any difference outside of his servers.
Why? If you were watching Mantis while he was active you'd see just how much work he got done. I can't say I enjoy his servers, but he did his job well.