I like to compare completely different genre's because it's cool and witty. Where NS adds lerk's primal scream, SC 2 adds soul charge, WTH SC 2 sucks. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How did I miss this amazing post?
The point of the analogy is that Blizzard is a hugely successful gaming company that embraces macros (scripts taken to the next level). Yet unknown worlds bans them.
Guess who's making the mistake? Blizzard knows that if they try to ban it, it will surely fail, and plenty of people will just make 3rd party macro's to work around it. But if they embrace it, they can also monitor what macro's are being used as well.
There exists macro's that work with NS that have been around since 1.04, and get around blockscripts just fine, are completely undectible, and are... spreading.
Guess why they are spreading? Because mp_blockscripts was implemented. Pretty soon scripting won't even be part of the question... someday we can all just use the macro forum for NS.
Before, with the scripting engine with NS, things could be controlled. But macro's for NS can do much more than scripts ever could. People used to be content with plain old scripts. But now you have people who are going to spread macro's. They would have never used macro's either, had it not been for mp_blockscripts.
Nessecity is the mother of all innovation and because people are being forced to change their way to play they are going to fight it, and the victory against mp_blockscripts lies in macro's.
No matter how you look at it, mp_blockscripts doesn't accomplish anything. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The whole analogy is stupid, much like most analogies. WoW is an RPG, enphisis based on character improvement at all costs, macros work well because they are another element of character improvement. FPS are not about character improvement at all, they are about maximizing what can be done within limited means. No one would play CS if the person who wrote the best script always won the game, the title would just be retarded.
CS has an AK 47, and NS has an LMG... I think the conclusion to this problem is clear.
Unrelated success doesn't in any way shape or form define the best course of action in a specific circumstance.
CheeseLork on the ClorfJoin Date: 2003-12-15Member: 24396Members, Constellation
The huge problem i came accross is that nearly every clanwar, gather, scrim, league war is played with blockscripts1 now...
So...for me public gaming is also a training. This means if i train with blockscripts0 and play wars with blockscripts1 it will be a dissadvantage for me.
If Clanwars would finally be set back to bs_0 without everyone whining how unfair it is.
(talking about these clans that have to find reasons why they lost a game. Either its the rates...or the lag...or cheats...or its blockscripts)
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jul 3 2005, 01:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jul 3 2005, 01:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 3 2005, 02:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 3 2005, 02:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Voogru being a dev is like me being a dev, you just don't do it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why? If you were watching Mantis while he was active you'd see just how much work he got done. I can't say I enjoy his servers, but he did his job well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Devs should be honest and completely unbiased. Not ostrasize part of the community for no real good reason
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 3 2005, 04:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 3 2005, 04:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jul 3 2005, 01:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jul 3 2005, 01:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 3 2005, 02:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 3 2005, 02:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Voogru being a dev is like me being a dev, you just don't do it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why? If you were watching Mantis while he was active you'd see just how much work he got done. I can't say I enjoy his servers, but he did his job well. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Devs should be honest and completely unbiased. Not ostrasize part of the community for no real good reason <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They aren't government officials... It's PR's job to make sure the comunity isn't being ostricized. If flay never had anything against scripting he should have taken a firmer stance, he was PR at the time IIRC...
The problem is, exploitive scripts did exist at the time, and still do (although to a much smaller extent). Blockscripts needs to be fixed and integrated. It shouldn't be kept as a variable. A script should be either exploitive and blocked or not exploititive and not blocked. No middle man.
If server's really want to block utility scripts they can do it thier own way. There is no need for a dev side varaible to do so.
<!--QuoteBegin-the hole+Jul 2 2005, 07:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the hole @ Jul 2 2005, 07:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I said new to NS, not Half-Life. What.. do you think we're the only community that scripts? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Take time to read the statement before replying to it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What is this new player doing using pistol scripts and triple jump if he doesn't <b>know how they work or where they are enabled?</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You also said the new player would wonder why his scripts werent working, and quit. Well, I said a player without the education of where/when scripts work shouldn't be using them anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jul 3 2005, 05:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jul 3 2005, 05:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The problem is, exploitive scripts did exist at the time, and still do (although to a much smaller extent). Blockscripts needs to be fixed and integrated. It shouldn't be kept as a variable. A script should be either exploitive and blocked or not exploititive and not blocked. No middle man.
If server's really want to block utility scripts they can do it thier own way. There is no need for a dev side varaible to do so. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>QFT.</span> Nice post.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cheese+Jul 3 2005, 04:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cheese @ Jul 3 2005, 04:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The huge problem i came accross is that nearly every clanwar, gather, scrim, league war is played with blockscripts1 now...
So...for me public gaming is also a training. This means if i train with blockscripts0 and play wars with blockscripts1 it will be a dissadvantage for me.
If Clanwars would finally be set back to bs_0 without everyone whining how unfair it is.
(talking about these clans that have to find reasons why they lost a game. Either its the rates...or the lag...or cheats...or its blockscripts) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> wth is a clanwar? call it a scrim/match ffs. btw ive never played a scrim with mp bs 1 - and i dont ever plan to either.
Sorry ravatar but thats not a good post at all. If there are exploitive scripts you fix the exploits. To make another **** analogy as that seems to be the trend: you don't carpet bomb a nation to get rid of a few bad apples.
EDIT: Oh and lets not forget that with the implementation of a working blockscripts we saw a return of the most abusive script of them all: _special. That little mistake resulted in an entire league going bs_1 because it didn't want to deal with it.
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 3 2005, 10:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 3 2005, 10:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Devs should be honest and completely unbiased. Not ostrasize part of the community for no real good reason <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Was that a joke? So devs can't have opinions, make observations, or have any take whatsoever on the game? They should sit infront of the screen and code the game the way you tell them to?
Ok buddy.
Where was voogru ever dishonest by the way? And you do realize that mp_blockscript's fix was a bug fix assigned to him by higher up? It's not like he went scouting around Mantis looking for ways to annoy scripting players. He might not like scripts personally but that had nothing to do with the implementation or the addition of mp_blockscripts.
I'm glad you enlightened me on what a dev's job should be though. Thanks.
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
There is a difference between having an opinion, making observations and openly telling a part of the community to go die because of personal opinion.
He only got what he deserved by using this subtitle for his thread about his metamod plugin. I don't expect people to actually consider him like a serious development team member with such a behaviour. Maybe you do.
<!--QuoteBegin-Wither+Jul 3 2005, 09:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wither @ Jul 3 2005, 09:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 3 2005, 10:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 3 2005, 10:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Devs should be honest and completely unbiased. Not ostrasize part of the community for no real good reason <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Was that a joke? So devs can't have opinions, make observations, or have any take whatsoever on the game? They should sit infront of the screen and code the game the way you tell them to?
Ok buddy.
Where was voogru ever dishonest by the way? And you do realize that mp_blockscript's fix was a bug fix assigned to him by higher up? It's not like he went scouting around Mantis looking for ways to annoy scripting players. He might not like scripts personally but that had nothing to do with the implementation or the addition of mp_blockscripts.
I'm glad you enlightened me on what a dev's job should be though. Thanks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> People like you in positions such as PT lead are why the competitive community is dying, you have a stranglehold on it, and instead of using your input to keep the game fun for everyone its turned into the average dumb pubbers paradise. I don't understand the concept of blockscripts, and not once has anyone answered my initial question and given it sufficient backup for the reason, so far its been "Well scripts are lame because whatever reason" or "You're a clanner and automatically a jerk/idiot/eliteist/whatever"
Whatever happend to flayras intention of keeping ns great for tournements/whatever he said, instead, idiotic cvars such as blockscripts are ill conceived to scapegoat.
Here's a tip
<b><i><u><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>STOP TRYING TO IMPLEMENT INHERERNTLY BAD "FEATURES" INTO NS IN A FUTILE ATTEMPT AT CLOSING THE SKILL GAP. YOU PEOPLE MADE THE CHOICE TO BALANCE NS AROUND THE BHOP SO LIVE WITH THAT CHOICE, CLOSE EXPLOITS SUCH AS _SPECIAL AND STOP PUNISHING THOSE OF US WHO PLAY LEGITIMATELY</span></u></i></b>
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jul 3 2005, 01:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jul 3 2005, 01:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 3 2005, 02:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 3 2005, 02:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Voogru being a dev is like me being a dev, you just don't do it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why? If you were watching Mantis while he was active you'd see just how much work he got done. I can't say I enjoy his servers, but he did his job well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> QTF, he did his JOB.
<!--QuoteBegin-OnESabreWulf+Jul 2 2005, 07:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OnESabreWulf @ Jul 2 2005, 07:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My last post on this topic because it can go on forever. lol
Honestly guys I like to know since you all have been spoiled by scripts. Can anyone here play with no scripts at all?
Just have a normal config file and go on a pub and try to play with non scripted cfg files? Is it possible that you can play with out any scripts? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Is it possible? Of course.
Do we WANT to? No.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QTF, he did his JOB.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->No one is saying he didn't. However, he also had a personal vendetta against scripts and people who use them - which made him a relatively poor candidate for a dev position. Do you think the Counter-Strike players would appreciate a developer who was blatantly against sniping weapons? It might make the pubbers happy if said dev nerfed all the sniping weapons, but it would tick off all the clanners who have adapted to using them and also know how to counter them.
<!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Jul 3 2005, 10:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Jul 3 2005, 10:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-OnESabreWulf+Jul 2 2005, 07:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OnESabreWulf @ Jul 2 2005, 07:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My last post on this topic because it can go on forever. lol
Honestly guys I like to know since you all have been spoiled by scripts. Can anyone here play with no scripts at all?
Just have a normal config file and go on a pub and try to play with non scripted cfg files? Is it possible that you can play with out any scripts? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Is it possible? Of course.
Do we WANT to? No. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> WOW
Heres what a script is
It is creating an alias to do multiple tasks.
alias medpack "say_team I need a medpack, stat!; impulse whatevermedpackis"
bind z "medpack"
Thats a script. I suppose calling for a medpack using not only the impulse, but team chat means I am somehow superhumanly better at the game.
Oh wait, you also think its perfectly legit to spam mwheeldown to bhop, but a simple 3 hop (which arguable is harder due to having to time the presses on the space bar versus just wheeling like crazy) is completely out of the question? Seriously, let me break it down
I felt the same way you did. I hated clans, I hated clan players, I hated scripts(not knowing what they were), It came down to anger at myself for not being able to outplay a clan player, so I got off my high horse, shot it in the face, and started practicing, and really getting into NS.
Imagine that, I got better, and without scripts I was playing in a delta level clan (allbeit low delta at the time) Then after mastering the game I picked up my first scripts. They do give you an advantage, they boost ones ability to control and perform, assuming you already have the dynamics of the game mastered, by your logic the average pubber who has never even heard the team bhop could create a 3 hop script, and immediately be able to fly along at speed 500. Too bad that isn't how it works now is it?
<!--QuoteBegin-GoDlol+Jul 3 2005, 07:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GoDlol @ Jul 3 2005, 07:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> best fix for all of this is to just incorporate the pistol and 3 jump into the game for everone to use( if they want to ) and then just block everything else. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How about, instead of putting double fire INTO the game.. why not just half the rof of the pistol, double to damage?
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Okay, I'm going to pipe in here to defend voogru at this point because I'm tired of seeing people who don't have a clue what they are talking about tarnish his name.
Voogru was *told* to fix mp_bs. It wasn't his decision, but he executed it with the efficiency and talent he applied to *everything* he did on the NS team. Voogru came to the team and within 2-3 days was closing mantis entries at a very high rate. In fact, 90% of the code change in beta5 were done by voogru. He didn't have *any* design input into the game as Flayra was still 100% control of game design for beta5.
CWAG, do you still believe the playtesters make balance decisions? A small group of 60 odd players, half of who don't even attend every PT, in charge of every balance decision of the game? We give input on new features, we test bugs, we do not veto things.
<b>We do not make the balance calls.</b>
As for the reasoning behind blockscripts? Giving a server operator more control behind what he wants on his server.
In the last year with all these numerous "What's the point behind blockscripts" threads, no single person has stated a reason why giving a server operator control over what he wants is somehow wrong.
Play on a server without mp_bs 1? The cvar is 0 by default, if people somehow find a "Unknown Worlds hates scripters" reasoning behind this cvar, that's willful ignorance.
<!--QuoteBegin-puzl+Jul 3 2005, 10:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (puzl @ Jul 3 2005, 10:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Okay, I'm going to pipe in here to defend voogru at this point because I'm tired of seeing people who don't have a clue what they are talking about tarnish his name.
Voogru was *told* to fix mp_bs. It wasn't his decision, but he executed it with the efficiency and talent he applied to *everything* he did on the NS team. Voogru came to the team and within 2-3 days was closing mantis entries at a very high rate. In fact, 90% of the code change in beta5 were done by voogru. He didn't have *any* design input into the game as Flayra was still 100% control of game design for beta5.
So stop talking like you know what happened.
And Cwag,
I'd advise you to tone down your attitude. Now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I love how wither can act the same way I did, and yet I do my best to tell the truth from my point of view and get threatend, you know what, save me the time of yelling into an empty stadium and just ban me, I know your fingers itching to do so. I am really tired of trying to give some helpfull feedback, granted its gritty and sometimes rude, and just to have it completely ignored, reminds me of my time playtesting, I honestly thought I was helping when we were just ignored (for the most part)
And again, why hasn't anyone answered my original question?
<!--QuoteBegin-Wither+Jul 3 2005, 10:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wither @ Jul 3 2005, 10:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> CWAG, do you still believe the playtesters make balance decisions? A small group of 60 odd players, half of who don't even attend every PT, in charge of every balance decision of the game? We give input on new features, we test bugs, we do not veto things.
<b>We do not make the balance calls.</b>
As for the reasoning behind blockscripts? Giving a server operator more control behind what he wants on his server.
In the last year with all these numerous "What's the point behind blockscripts" threads, no single person has stated a reason why giving a server operator control over what he wants is somehow wrong.
Play on a server without mp_bs 1? The cvar is 0 by default, if people somehow find a "Unknown Worlds hates scripters" reasoning behind this cvar, that's willful ignorance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh maybe because the cvar is described as "a preventative measure for exploitative scripts" When nobody bothers to educate server admins just what that means? They see exploit and immediately think "cheats" hence the complete ignorance about scripts by the masses at large. I'd still really like to know how 3hop, request scripts, are exploitative yet _special is running around still?
<!--QuoteBegin-Zaggy+Jul 3 2005, 10:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zaggy @ Jul 3 2005, 10:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To make the server admin able to turn off scripts to some extent? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you realize what _special allows people to be able to do? I mean seriously, any script with _special in my eyes is outright cheating
Marik_SteeleTo rule in hell...Join Date: 2002-11-20Member: 9466Members
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jul 3 2005, 10:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jul 3 2005, 10:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [...] And again, why hasn't anyone answered my original question? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Seeing the atmosphere around the last several dozen posts in this thread, I'd like a way to bring it back to a more productive topic, too. Locking this for now so people can cool off, but after a read-through I *may* be able to re-open it. All depends on whether I can backtrack us successfully.
Marik_SteeleTo rule in hell...Join Date: 2002-11-20Member: 9466Members
Alright, if I re-opened this thread I heavily doubt it would survive another quarter page before going downhill again. But to try and fulfill my promise I will answer CWAG's original question. Problem is, much like the Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy's answer to "life, the universe, and everything," a lot of you aren't going to like this answer.
CWAG's original question (in thread title): "Whats The Point Of Mp_blockscripts, And who was the genius who birthed it?"
The point of mp_blockscripts was to block scripts that Flayra, the variable's original creator, didn't want to see used.
I don't want to start putting words into the mouths of other staff members, so I'll leave my answer at that for now. If any devs wish to speak further about it, they're welcome to make afterlock posts.
Elaborating on what Marik said, Flayra originally implemented a (widely ineffective) mp_blockscript to allow for the creation of a level playing field in competitive environments - sort of a supplement to the tournament mode. This was not so much done to remove this or that script, it was simply based on the realization that HL is a vastly customizable basis for a game (who'da thunk it) and that scripting can therefore skew the results of high level play for the same reasons that professional tournaments are played on identical hardware.
Later, much later, when two new coders had been brought on board, voogru got the task to fix a number of flaws of this variable. He then made a hasty post in jest, which was subsequently taken completely serious by some as a thought out manifest written in earnest, and the rest is history.
Comments
-Forlorn <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hi,
I like to compare completely different genre's because it's cool and witty. Where NS adds lerk's primal scream, SC 2 adds soul charge, WTH SC 2 sucks. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How did I miss this amazing post?
The point of the analogy is that Blizzard is a hugely successful gaming company that embraces macros (scripts taken to the next level). Yet unknown worlds bans them.
Guess who's making the mistake? Blizzard knows that if they try to ban it, it will surely fail, and plenty of people will just make 3rd party macro's to work around it. But if they embrace it, they can also monitor what macro's are being used as well.
There exists macro's that work with NS that have been around since 1.04, and get around blockscripts just fine, are completely undectible, and are... spreading.
Guess why they are spreading? Because mp_blockscripts was implemented. Pretty soon scripting won't even be part of the question... someday we can all just use the macro forum for NS.
Before, with the scripting engine with NS, things could be controlled. But macro's for NS can do much more than scripts ever could. People used to be content with plain old scripts. But now you have people who are going to spread macro's. They would have never used macro's either, had it not been for mp_blockscripts.
Nessecity is the mother of all innovation and because people are being forced to change their way to play they are going to fight it, and the victory against mp_blockscripts lies in macro's.
No matter how you look at it, mp_blockscripts doesn't accomplish anything. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The whole analogy is stupid, much like most analogies. WoW is an RPG, enphisis based on character improvement at all costs, macros work well because they are another element of character improvement. FPS are not about character improvement at all, they are about maximizing what can be done within limited means. No one would play CS if the person who wrote the best script always won the game, the title would just be retarded.
CS has an AK 47, and NS has an LMG... I think the conclusion to this problem is clear.
Unrelated success doesn't in any way shape or form define the best course of action in a specific circumstance.
So...for me public gaming is also a training. This means if i train with blockscripts0 and play wars with blockscripts1 it will be a dissadvantage for me.
If Clanwars would finally be set back to bs_0 without everyone whining how unfair it is.
(talking about these clans that have to find reasons why they lost a game. Either its the rates...or the lag...or cheats...or its blockscripts)
Why? If you were watching Mantis while he was active you'd see just how much work he got done. I can't say I enjoy his servers, but he did his job well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Devs should be honest and completely unbiased. Not ostrasize part of the community for no real good reason
Why? If you were watching Mantis while he was active you'd see just how much work he got done. I can't say I enjoy his servers, but he did his job well. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Devs should be honest and completely unbiased. Not ostrasize part of the community for no real good reason <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
They aren't government officials... It's PR's job to make sure the comunity isn't being ostricized. If flay never had anything against scripting he should have taken a firmer stance, he was PR at the time IIRC...
The problem is, exploitive scripts did exist at the time, and still do (although to a much smaller extent). Blockscripts needs to be fixed and integrated. It shouldn't be kept as a variable. A script should be either exploitive and blocked or not exploititive and not blocked. No middle man.
If server's really want to block utility scripts they can do it thier own way. There is no need for a dev side varaible to do so.
Take time to read the statement before replying to it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What is this new player doing using pistol scripts and triple jump if he doesn't <b>know how they work or where they are enabled?</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You also said the new player would wonder why his scripts werent working, and quit. Well, I said a player without the education of where/when scripts work shouldn't be using them anyway.
If server's really want to block utility scripts they can do it thier own way. There is no need for a dev side varaible to do so.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>QFT.</span> Nice post.
So...for me public gaming is also a training. This means if i train with blockscripts0 and play wars with blockscripts1 it will be a dissadvantage for me.
If Clanwars would finally be set back to bs_0 without everyone whining how unfair it is.
(talking about these clans that have to find reasons why they lost a game. Either its the rates...or the lag...or cheats...or its blockscripts) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
wth is a clanwar? call it a scrim/match ffs. btw ive never played a scrim with mp bs 1 - and i dont ever plan to either.
EDIT: Oh and lets not forget that with the implementation of a working blockscripts we saw a return of the most abusive script of them all: _special. That little mistake resulted in an entire league going bs_1 because it didn't want to deal with it.
Oh yes, you most definately carpet bomb countries to get rid of a few bad apples.
Was that a joke? So devs can't have opinions, make observations, or have any take whatsoever on the game? They should sit infront of the screen and code the game the way you tell them to?
Ok buddy.
Where was voogru ever dishonest by the way? And you do realize that mp_blockscript's fix was a bug fix assigned to him by higher up? It's not like he went scouting around Mantis looking for ways to annoy scripting players. He might not like scripts personally but that had nothing to do with the implementation or the addition of mp_blockscripts.
I'm glad you enlightened me on what a dev's job should be though. Thanks.
He only got what he deserved by using this subtitle for his thread about his metamod plugin. I don't expect people to actually consider him like a serious development team member with such a behaviour. Maybe you do.
Was that a joke? So devs can't have opinions, make observations, or have any take whatsoever on the game? They should sit infront of the screen and code the game the way you tell them to?
Ok buddy.
Where was voogru ever dishonest by the way? And you do realize that mp_blockscript's fix was a bug fix assigned to him by higher up? It's not like he went scouting around Mantis looking for ways to annoy scripting players. He might not like scripts personally but that had nothing to do with the implementation or the addition of mp_blockscripts.
I'm glad you enlightened me on what a dev's job should be though. Thanks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
People like you in positions such as PT lead are why the competitive community is dying, you have a stranglehold on it, and instead of using your input to keep the game fun for everyone its turned into the average dumb pubbers paradise. I don't understand the concept of blockscripts, and not once has anyone answered my initial question and given it sufficient backup for the reason, so far its been "Well scripts are lame because whatever reason" or "You're a clanner and automatically a jerk/idiot/eliteist/whatever"
Whatever happend to flayras intention of keeping ns great for tournements/whatever he said, instead, idiotic cvars such as blockscripts are ill conceived to scapegoat.
Here's a tip
<b><i><u><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>STOP TRYING TO IMPLEMENT INHERERNTLY BAD "FEATURES" INTO NS IN A FUTILE ATTEMPT AT CLOSING THE SKILL GAP. YOU PEOPLE MADE THE CHOICE TO BALANCE NS AROUND THE BHOP SO LIVE WITH THAT CHOICE, CLOSE EXPLOITS SUCH AS _SPECIAL AND STOP PUNISHING THOSE OF US WHO PLAY LEGITIMATELY</span></u></i></b>
Why? If you were watching Mantis while he was active you'd see just how much work he got done. I can't say I enjoy his servers, but he did his job well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
QTF, he did his JOB.
Honestly guys I like to know since you all have been spoiled by scripts.
Can anyone here play with no scripts at all?
Just have a normal config file and go on a pub and try to play with non scripted cfg files?
Is it possible that you can play with out any scripts? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is it possible? Of course.
Do we WANT to? No.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QTF, he did his JOB.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->No one is saying he didn't. However, he also had a personal vendetta against scripts and people who use them - which made him a relatively poor candidate for a dev position. Do you think the Counter-Strike players would appreciate a developer who was blatantly against sniping weapons? It might make the pubbers happy if said dev nerfed all the sniping weapons, but it would tick off all the clanners who have adapted to using them and also know how to counter them.
If yes:Can they currently be turned off at the moment?
Honestly guys I like to know since you all have been spoiled by scripts.
Can anyone here play with no scripts at all?
Just have a normal config file and go on a pub and try to play with non scripted cfg files?
Is it possible that you can play with out any scripts? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is it possible? Of course.
Do we WANT to? No. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
WOW
Heres what a script is
It is creating an alias to do multiple tasks.
alias medpack "say_team I need a medpack, stat!; impulse whatevermedpackis"
bind z "medpack"
Thats a script. I suppose calling for a medpack using not only the impulse, but team chat means I am somehow superhumanly better at the game.
Oh wait, you also think its perfectly legit to spam mwheeldown to bhop, but a simple 3 hop (which arguable is harder due to having to time the presses on the space bar versus just wheeling like crazy) is completely out of the question? Seriously, let me break it down
I felt the same way you did. I hated clans, I hated clan players, I hated scripts(not knowing what they were), It came down to anger at myself for not being able to outplay a clan player, so I got off my high horse, shot it in the face, and started practicing, and really getting into NS.
Imagine that, I got better, and without scripts I was playing in a delta level clan (allbeit low delta at the time) Then after mastering the game I picked up my first scripts. They do give you an advantage, they boost ones ability to control and perform, assuming you already have the dynamics of the game mastered, by your logic the average pubber who has never even heard the team bhop could create a 3 hop script, and immediately be able to fly along at speed 500. Too bad that isn't how it works now is it?
How about, instead of putting double fire INTO the game.. why not just half the rof of the pistol, double to damage?
would that be too sniperish?
Voogru was *told* to fix mp_bs. It wasn't his decision, but he executed it with the efficiency and talent he applied to *everything* he did on the NS team. Voogru came to the team and within 2-3 days was closing mantis entries at a very high rate. In fact, 90% of the code change in beta5 were done by voogru. He didn't have *any* design input into the game as Flayra was still 100% control of game design for beta5.
So stop talking like you know what happened.
And Cwag,
I'd advise you to tone down your attitude. Now.
<b>We do not make the balance calls.</b>
As for the reasoning behind blockscripts? Giving a server operator more control behind what he wants on his server.
In the last year with all these numerous "What's the point behind blockscripts" threads, no single person has stated a reason why giving a server operator control over what he wants is somehow wrong.
Play on a server without mp_bs 1? The cvar is 0 by default, if people somehow find a "Unknown Worlds hates scripters" reasoning behind this cvar, that's willful ignorance.
Voogru was *told* to fix mp_bs. It wasn't his decision, but he executed it with the efficiency and talent he applied to *everything* he did on the NS team. Voogru came to the team and within 2-3 days was closing mantis entries at a very high rate. In fact, 90% of the code change in beta5 were done by voogru. He didn't have *any* design input into the game as Flayra was still 100% control of game design for beta5.
So stop talking like you know what happened.
And Cwag,
I'd advise you to tone down your attitude. Now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love how wither can act the same way I did, and yet I do my best to tell the truth from my point of view and get threatend, you know what, save me the time of yelling into an empty stadium and just ban me, I know your fingers itching to do so. I am really tired of trying to give some helpfull feedback, granted its gritty and sometimes rude, and just to have it completely ignored, reminds me of my time playtesting, I honestly thought I was helping when we were just ignored (for the most part)
And again, why hasn't anyone answered my original question?
<b>We do not make the balance calls.</b>
As for the reasoning behind blockscripts? Giving a server operator more control behind what he wants on his server.
In the last year with all these numerous "What's the point behind blockscripts" threads, no single person has stated a reason why giving a server operator control over what he wants is somehow wrong.
Play on a server without mp_bs 1? The cvar is 0 by default, if people somehow find a "Unknown Worlds hates scripters" reasoning behind this cvar, that's willful ignorance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh maybe because the cvar is described as "a preventative measure for exploitative scripts" When nobody bothers to educate server admins just what that means? They see exploit and immediately think "cheats" hence the complete ignorance about scripts by the masses at large. I'd still really like to know how 3hop, request scripts, are exploitative yet _special is running around still?
Do you realize what _special allows people to be able to do? I mean seriously, any script with _special in my eyes is outright cheating
And again, why hasn't anyone answered my original question? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seeing the atmosphere around the last several dozen posts in this thread, I'd like a way to bring it back to a more productive topic, too. Locking this for now so people can cool off, but after a read-through I *may* be able to re-open it. All depends on whether I can backtrack us successfully.
CWAG's original question (in thread title): "Whats The Point Of Mp_blockscripts, And who was the genius who birthed it?"
The point of mp_blockscripts was to block scripts that Flayra, the variable's original creator, didn't want to see used.
I don't want to start putting words into the mouths of other staff members, so I'll leave my answer at that for now. If any devs wish to speak further about it, they're welcome to make afterlock posts.
Later, much later, when two new coders had been brought on board, voogru got the task to fix a number of flaws of this variable. He then made a hasty post in jest, which was subsequently taken completely serious by some as a thought out manifest written in earnest, and the rest is history.