Children Brought Up With A Faith.
Goldwin
Join Date: 2005-05-07 Member: 51110Members
Join Date: 2005-05-07 Member: 51110Members
This has always been eating away at my mind, and I thought I'd share a little of my thoughts on this subject with you, mabye gettign some feedback that could help shape my thoughts on the subject.
When children are raised by parents with a religious faith, are they 'better off' than being raised up by parents without a faith?
Personally, I conclude logically (be it that it's not always the best way to conclude things) that being brought up as a child with a religious faith of any kind is better than wothout. A faith teaches the child about some moralities and generousity skills that parents without a faith could potentially forget or have difficulties with teaching a child the same thing, if desired. Children also tend to be more disciplined when brought up with a faith as well.
Thoughts on the same such subject? Other reasons why, or reasons why kchildren brought up without a faith are better would be nice, as I want to looka t this from both sides.
When children are raised by parents with a religious faith, are they 'better off' than being raised up by parents without a faith?
Personally, I conclude logically (be it that it's not always the best way to conclude things) that being brought up as a child with a religious faith of any kind is better than wothout. A faith teaches the child about some moralities and generousity skills that parents without a faith could potentially forget or have difficulties with teaching a child the same thing, if desired. Children also tend to be more disciplined when brought up with a faith as well.
Thoughts on the same such subject? Other reasons why, or reasons why kchildren brought up without a faith are better would be nice, as I want to looka t this from both sides.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
to me its akin to lieing to kids about santa, they will eventually find out the truth. and which faith are we talking about here? i am assuming you are refering to the "one truth faith" of christianity, rather that to islam or buddhism ( because of course your faith is the right one ). there is wisdom as great and greater than that contained in the bible.
i think you should encourage your children to question and seek there own path
(btw i was raised catholic and went to catholic school for elementraty school and high school)
So for you atheists, you can assume atheist house vs Christian house if you like, but you Christians are going to have to assume atheist house vs Muslim house, or atheist house vs Hindu house, etc, otherwise we're each going to be arguing about different things.
This brings the discussion back to where it was meant to be initially--is it better for kids to be brought up in a household with religious teachings than no religious teachings, even if you don't personally agree with those religious teachings?
My initial reaction is to say yes, but I haven't given it a great deal of thought. Discuss away, but don't let this get onto the topic of which religious teachings are best to use---because everyone is then going to assert that their own are obviously the best.
I think the benifits of religion are more closely tied with the teachers and followers as people and as a community than actually with the religion. The benifits of simply belonging can even make a difference.
to me its akin to lieing to kids about santa, they will eventually find out the truth. and which faith are we talking about here? i am assuming you are refering to the "one truth faith" of christianity, rather that to islam or buddhism ( because of course your faith is the right one ). there is wisdom as great and greater than that contained in the bible.
i think you should encourage your children to question and seek there own path
(btw i was raised catholic and went to catholic school for elementraty school and high school) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a rebuttal, it would seem that though you were raised believing a single faith, that you did not grow up to be intolerant. As based by your own statements. It depends a lot more on the parent than on the religion or lack of formal introduction.
When children are raised by parents with a religious faith, are they 'better off' than being raised up by parents without a faith?
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No, there is no evidence either way, it soley rests upon the parents to instill the morals and values that are held so dear.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I was raised a Protestant, and my mother and father both instilled good values upon my brother and I. To this day many of these values remain, as does my belief
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It was your parents that taught you what was needed, your "faith" was just a suppliment and wouldn't have mattered one way or another as long as your parents re-enforced their morals on to you.
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidley+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidley)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
It's not faith that will instill values or discipline - it's the parents. You can bring up a decent kid regardless of gods
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QFT, for the most part, there are a few exceptions.
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I agree with snidely to some extent, I believe that regardless of religous belifs or lack thereof, parents can raise a great kid. I do think that religion is somewhat of a helper in that it can help develop skills or ideas, can teach obedience and tolerance, and provide extra schooling. If nothing else it gives the kid something positive to do for a few hours during the week when they could be getting into trouble.
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Or for those couple of hours they could be developing their "superiority" complex that most fundamentalists have. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In conclusion, it makes little difference what faith someones parents are when they are growing up. As long as the parents instill a sense of right and wrong into their children, they will grow up to be decent people, for the most part, there are always exceptions.
Its funny that you speak of a "superiority complex", all I see you do is talk down on the religious fundamentalists as if you are better.
Anyhow on to the topic. I agree with most of what has been said, religion alone is not a good teacher of morals. The primary teachers are the parents. Religion can act like an aid, much like an aunt or uncle would. Providing insight here or there, but never more important than the parents. Religion alone does not create an intolerance, its only helps to reinforce those imposed by parents, relatives, or peers. We are a product of our surroundings.
I was raised a Protestant, and my mother and father both instilled good values upon my brother and I. To this day many of these values remain, as does my belief
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It was your parents that taught you what was needed, your "faith" was just a suppliment and wouldn't have mattered one way or another as long as your parents re-enforced their morals on to you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The very morals my parents possessed came from their faith in God and the doctrines practiced by our church, so yes I believe I am "'better off' than being raised up by parents without a faith?"
The very morals my parents possessed came from their faith in God and the doctrines practiced by our church, so yes I believe I am "'better off' than being raised up by parents without a faith?"
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That is a very interesting opinion because their belief in god has little to do with their morals, but interesting you view it as such.
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Their belief in God and their faith has everything to do with their morals. Who are you to question that? Nothing interesting or unusual about that at all.
The very morals my parents possessed came from their faith in God and the doctrines practiced by our church, so yes I believe I am "'better off' than being raised up by parents without a faith?"
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That is a very interesting opinion because their belief in god has little to do with their morals, but interesting you view it as such.
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Their belief in God and their faith has everything to do with their morals. Who are you to question that? Nothing interesting or unusual about that at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So their belief in God was the only thing keeping them from killing, stealing, committing adultery, etc, etc, etc?
Religion really has nothing to do with how kids are brought up - Southern folks were very religious in the 1800s, but that didn't make them moral human beings when it came to how they treated African Americans. You can have all the anectdotal evidence you want, the fact is that people are moral or immoral regardless of religion. How people raise their kids doesn't depend on what religion those kids grow up with (if any at all), it depends on the parents as people, separate from their religion.
I was raised a Protestant, and my mother and father both instilled good values upon my brother and I. To this day many of these values remain, as does my belief
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was your parents that taught you what was needed, your "faith" was just a suppliment and wouldn't have mattered one way or another as long as your parents re-enforced their morals on to you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The very morals my parents possessed came from their faith in God and the doctrines practiced by our church, so yes I believe I am "'better off' than being raised up by parents without a faith?" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thing is though, you were probably raised by the same principles an atheist was. Respect your parents, don't steal, and basically don't be a jerk. In that respect, you probably didn't get anything that I didn't get, although I was a Christian for a little while.
My parents (one theist or protestant, one agnostic) let us find our own faith. Out of the five of us, one's a christian (Prot.), one's a muslim, one's an atheist, and the other two agnostic. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter, as long as your parents are willing to love you no matter what you choose to be.
Edit: Sky slipped in first, curse him and his nimble fingers.
Their belief in God and their faith has everything to do with their morals. Who are you to question that? Nothing interesting or unusual about that at all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, what is quite interesting is your perspective that it was their faith that taught them their morals, which is obviously not true. As Snidely and Sky have beat me to it, since I was driving to work.
Curse you people and your faster responses. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Of course my parents got their morals from their belief in God, and from the Bible and the Ten Commandments, where all Christians get their morals from.
Because you say so Cyndane hardly means it's "obviously not true".
One major problem I see in many children brought up without faith is acceptance. You would think that many without faith would accept more? In my experiences, it's not so much. Many people have hatred towards religion, genders, races, sexual preferences, etc. However, I guess the saem could be said for people with a religion too. But in my own experiences, I see more with the former than the latter, which is why I conclude that one brought up with faith can overall become a "better" person than one without.
Anyway, a contact of mine wishes their opinions heard in the forum.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I realize your not speaking in absolutes but I have to refute your claim, based on personal experience. Most of the people I know are either agnostic or completely outright atheist, and theyre also some of the best people I know. I wish more people could understand there really is morality without god, because I don't think humans are inherently evil or wicked. If I do something to keep from hurting someone its not because I fear divine wrath, its simply empathy. If anything I would argue religion is worse for someone, because many christian based faiths hold people to unattainable standards, teaches that your own body is evil, and everything you do is pre-chosen for you. If there really is a god, he/she/it would want you to live your life to the fullest and happiest, not conform to insane things like "No meat on day x" Or somesuch.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see why being faithful or faithless impacts much on tolerance either. The only difference is in the justification for the prejudice, really.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Faith in a religion generally means respect for the religion's moral values. If they aren't capable of respect, it also means they fear defying the Gods of said religion. Seeing as it's so rare these days for children to choose their parents as their role models, as opposed to someone on TV, having God on your side at least makes them more receptive to your position. Even if they later reject the religion as teenagers/adults, they will remember the moral values they chose to follow, even if it was out of fear of going to Hell.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If a parent can't discipline his/her child, then a vague threat of God isn't going to do much, either.
Of course my parents got their morals from their belief in God, and from the Bible and the Ten Commandments, where all Christians get their morals from.
Because you say so Cyndane hardly means it's "obviously not true". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yes Depot as the bible is such an excellent source of morals... ::rollseyes::
I really wish we had an smiley for that, again.
Snidely has the right of it, still even though no one has really seen it yet.
If the parents can not control their children, religion has no bearing upon said child. If they can, and they choose to teach the tolerate side of any said religion, then they child will remember that discpline comes from respect of others, however it has nothing to do with religious beliefs.
I don't see where some of you actually think it makes that much of a difference with our without religion. It doesn't, and there is nothing that says otherwise.
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Perhaps a definition of "better off" is in order. Let's let the author tell us exactly what he meant by this.
I could easily answer yes on the pretense that "better off" means I'm going to heaven when I die. If you have no faith, you're not going there. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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That's the best post I've seen yet.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot @ May 31 2005+ 06:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ May 31 2005 @ 06:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Perhaps a definition of "better off" is in order. Let's let the author tell us exactly what he meant by this.
I could easily answer yes on the pretense that "better off" means I'm going to heaven when I die. If you have no faith, you're not going there. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that's how it works I don't want to go to heaven. If God is truly the embodiment of good he will let anyone into heaven with a good hart because that's the whole point. I know I'm a good person, I respect and wish the best for anyone who does that as well for all other people and animals. So I won't go to heaven because I don't believe in God? why? Why am I not as good as someone who believes in god? Tell me that. That's like saying I will deny you eternal happieness because you don't like me. Maybe he has good reasons for not liking me? Well that doesn't stop me from granting him eternal happieness, if he's a good person. I also have a good reason for not believing in God. There's no proof, simple as that. (Don't question this proof stuff cause that's way off topic) If he doesn't want me in heaven because I never believed in him my entire life that makes me a better person than God because I wouldn't refuse him. And who can be a better person than God himself?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So their belief in God was the only thing keeping them from killing, stealing, committing adultery, etc, etc, etc?
Religion really has nothing to do with how kids are brought up - Southern folks were very religious in the 1800s, but that didn't make them moral human beings when it came to how they treated African Americans. You can have all the anectdotal evidence you want, the fact is that people are moral or immoral regardless of religion. How people raise their kids doesn't depend on what religion those kids grow up with (if any at all), it depends on the parents as people, separate from their religion. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Saying your parents got their morals directly and solely from the Bible is basically saying that they wouldn't have had morals without the Bible, which is just wrong, unless you have little faith in your parents.
[edit] grammar...
Show me where anyone said their parents "got their morals <b>directly and solely </b>from the Bible". You have taken what's been discussed and restated it completely out of context.
Especially if you cite the bible as your only source for morals, you might want to re-read it. It is not a very good book for only basing your morals on.
*edit*
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Of course my parents got their morals from their belief in God, and from the Bible and the Ten Commandments, where all Christians get their morals from.
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Right there... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Directly and solely?</b> Where does it say that? Of course their faith had a major influence on their morals, but no one INCLUDING ME said that was their ONLY influence. And YOU telling someone to re-read the bible? That's a hoot ... Just read the Ten Commandments, that'll give you some good guidance in reference to morals. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And I already noted why I'm better off as the author asked.
Perhaps a definition of "better off" is in order. Let's let the author tell us exactly what he meant by this.
I could easily answer yes on the pretense that "better off" means I'm going to heaven when I die. If you have no faith, you're not going there. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that's how it works I don't want to go to heaven. If God is truly the embodiment of good he will let anyone into heaven with a good hart because that's the whole point. I know I'm a good person, I respect and wish the best for anyone who does that as well for all other people and animals. So I won't go to heaven because I don't believe in God? why? Why am I not as good as someone who believes in god? Tell me that. That's like saying I will deny you eternal happieness because you don't like me. Maybe he has good reasons for not liking me? Well that doesn't stop me from granting him eternal happieness, if he's a good person. I also have a good reason for not believing in God. There's no proof, simple as that. (Don't question this proof stuff cause that's way off topic) If he doesn't want me in heaven because I never believed in him my entire life that makes me a better person than God because I wouldn't refuse him. And who can be a better person than God himself? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*goes on tangent*
Blammo, you are confused about how Christianity works. It's not that those who believe in God are somehow better than those who don't, and therefore can get into heaven--the basic idea is that <i>none of us</i> is as good as God, and being as good as God is the standard. It only takes one sin for you to fall short of that standard, and not be able to reach heaven.
So since <i>no one</i> can reach heaven on their own, God offered us a loophole...rather than having to pay the price to get there on our own, he offered to pay the price for us, and let us in for free. He <i>wants</i> you to be there...yes, even you who don't believe in him. The only thing you have to do is accept his free offer. But if you don't believe he exists, it's rather difficult to accept his free offer.
(Note--this is not intended to be an argument for Chrisitianity's truth, merely to clear up a fairly important misunderstanding)