Siege B6
ikir
Join Date: 2003-07-19 Member: 18265Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Gold
Join Date: 2003-07-19 Member: 18265Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Gold
Comments
Why was player damage removed? 'Cuz being spawnkilled is bad enough when it's done by a human being, not a shockwave.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85218&view=findpost&p=1328272' target='_blank'>Zunni</a>
If you were by the siege encampment as it was, you took 0 damage anyway (unless the siege encampment was in the hive) since you were not near a structure. I'm not sure what all the moaning is about.. All that happened is the need to have to stand on a structure to avoid taking damage is removed.
Good players did this anyway (as Forlorn mentioned), this just evens out the playing field for everyone else.. Please don't say standing on a DC is a "skill"....
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85218&view=findpost&p=1328557' target='_blank'>Nem Again</a>
Anyway, people spawning into the hive have no choice of entering it or not. This is the group of players I'm getting at - being killed indirectly in two regards is just not fun.
Anyway, I like this change.
Anyway, I like this change. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me too. It's frustrating to get killed by a siege cannon, while the blast is 10 km ( <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) away. And yet most of the time you can stand right next to a sieged building and remain alive
Higher lifeforms rarely ever die to seiges. It's the gorges and skulks that get rocked, meaning fewer reinforcments and no hive-healing.
This is a major change, now people will actually heal the hive when it gets seiged, and a gorge with a movement chamber can pump out a lot of healspray.
Higher lifeforms rarely ever die to seiges. It's the gorges and skulks that get rocked, meaning fewer reinforcments and no hive-healing.
This is a major change, now people will actually heal the hive when it gets seiged, and a gorge with a movement chamber can pump out a lot of healspray.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you sure about that? A fade blinks towards the marine position and gets blasted by shotguns. As he retreats back to the hive to heal another siege round hits, usually 2+ sieges, causing a good deal of damage to the fade if not killing him outright.
I agree with you about the lower lifeforms getting rocked by sieges however. I just happen to think you underestimate the total effect sieges have on alien lifeforms and their defense.
Eh, but I'm pro-alien. I like it. Seiges were already too overpowered.
Eh, but I'm pro-alien. I like it. Seiges were already too overpowered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it doesn't - the base damage was doubled.
I guess thanks for informing me.
heya Darten
I've died as a lerk and fade from sieges just by standing near the hive.
heya Darten
I've died as a lerk and fade from sieges just by standing near the hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
omz nub, you're supposed to stand on top of the hive to not take damage.
this is a good change, whether or not it's balanced is to be seen and decided.
Unipac > You
And hello Uni.
***edit***
Not to start a fight or anything, it's just Unipac is much better than you give him credit.
Higher lifeforms rarely ever die to seiges. It's the gorges and skulks that get rocked, meaning fewer reinforcments and no hive-healing.
This is a major change, now people will actually heal the hive when it gets seiged, and a gorge with a movement chamber can pump out a lot of healspray. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My #1 fear as lerk is sieges, because they always seem to kill me when nothing else can. Sieges insta-vaporize a lerk anywhere in the same room as them. I can't begin to describe all the times I've died as lerk to random siege damage in a room (or even in the next room). It's ridiculous, random, and difficult to predict. That's the main reason it's gone, dying to something you have 0 way of controlling at all is not fun. Removing damage to players allows you to actually defend the hive now instead of playing run away from it.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You still take damage on top of the hive. There are very few hives a gorge can heal spray safely without getting waxed.
Anyway, I think this seige change is very very good. They just need to change the seiging priority eg SEIGE CHAMBERS 1ST!!! That way, gorges don't get their unlimited heal-spray. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Maybe have a scale % depending on how big the building is, which means more organs and other organic material for rupturing. :S
Ok, so we have everybody speculating and telling each other what they think, but here are some facts. I popped onto the B6 server with a couple of fellow PT's and we tested things. The hive layout was a typical scene you'll find on most public servers, hive being Computer Core. Layout was as followed:
<img src='http://server3.uploadit.org/files/wither-b6_1.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://server2.uploadit.org/files/wither-b6_2.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
B6
Sieges - 2 - 3 - 4
Gorges - 2 - 2 - 2
Time - 2:45 - 1:05 - 0:30
Sieges - 4
Gorges - 3
Time - 0:45
Sieges - 4
Gorges with Adrenaline - 2
Time - 1:00
It could've been done more extensive but all of that takes a lot of time. Cheats on, rebuild, cheats off, get positioned, etc. This is just the general gist of the times we tested.
Now as for B5. Layout was similar, being:
<img src='http://server2.uploadit.org/files/wither-B5_1.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://server2.uploadit.org/files/wither-B5_2.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
B5
Sieges - 2 - 3 - 4
Gorges - 2 - 2 - 2
Time - 1:35 - 1:20 - 0:50
Sieges - 4
Gorges - 3
Time - 0:35
Sieges - 4
Gorges with Adrenaline - 2
Time - 0:42
Now for some more info. On the B5 testing, the gorges died. A lot. On the hive, under the hive, jumping on OC's, eventually they died. They would be standing on the hive for a long while during the sieging and only after numerous siege blasts would they get hit. This already proves vertical damage is messed. You could jump on OC's or other chambers getting hit and destroyed without taking damage. Sound wrong? Indeed.
As you see, the times make a massive impact. In B6, sieging is harder. It takes longer for a hive to die with people healing, and those gorges will not get blown away by the sieges. However, if you have 2 people or more healing, that's 2 less skulks harassing the phase gate. This was all done *without* pressure. No marine team shooting the hive, no skulks or fades attacking the turret factory.
Note to mods: this post was approved by Zunni before posted.
But the fallacy of one lone gorge holding off seige cannons indefinitely has been debunked above..
Though I do fear his may be quite unbalanceing I discussed in my reasons in the corresponding thread in which is was first proposed.
I think we should give this idea a try and if we PT this correctly I think we can adjust the siege damage so that it is balanced. There are some very positive effects from this change, give it a chance.
You know we have a PT team already right??
But yeah once it's out, everyone will get to play with it.. I suspect most people won't even notice the difference.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I suspect most people won't even notice the difference. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True. Especially newbies who join NS on that version.
Ok, so we have everybody speculating and telling each other what they think, but here are some facts. I popped onto the B6 server with a couple of fellow PT's and we tested things. The hive layout was a typical scene you'll find on most public servers, hive being Computer Core. Layout was as followed:
<img src='http://server3.uploadit.org/files/wither-b6_1.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://server2.uploadit.org/files/wither-b6_2.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
B6
Sieges - 2 - 3 - 4
Gorges - 2 - 2 - 2
Time - 2:45 - 1:05 - 0:30
Sieges - 4
Gorges - 3
Time - 0:45
Sieges - 4
Gorges with Adrenaline - 2
Time - 1:00
It could've been done more extensive but all of that takes a lot of time. Cheats on, rebuild, cheats off, get positioned, etc. This is just the general gist of the times we tested.
Now as for B5. Layout was similar, being:
<img src='http://server2.uploadit.org/files/wither-B5_1.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://server2.uploadit.org/files/wither-B5_2.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
B5
Sieges - 2 - 3 - 4
Gorges - 2 - 2 - 2
Time - 1:35 - 1:20 - 0:50
Sieges - 4
Gorges - 3
Time - 0:35
Sieges - 4
Gorges with Adrenaline - 2
Time - 0:42
Now for some more info. On the B5 testing, the gorges died. A lot. On the hive, under the hive, jumping on OC's, eventually they died. They would be standing on the hive for a long while during the sieging and only after numerous siege blasts would they get hit. This already proves vertical damage is messed. You could jump on OC's or other chambers getting hit and destroyed without taking damage. Sound wrong? Indeed.
As you see, the times make a massive impact. In B6, sieging is harder. It takes longer for a hive to die with people healing, and those gorges will not get blown away by the sieges. However, if you have 2 people or more healing, that's 2 less skulks harassing the phase gate. This was all done *without* pressure. No marine team shooting the hive, no skulks or fades attacking the turret factory.
Note to mods: this post was approved by Zunni before posted. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmmm normally i just lerk in forums but i have become fairly interested in the latest changelogs
According to the main source of opposition to the seiges, he I beleive <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85218&view=findpost&p=1328569' target='_blank'>that</a> he said the fades would keep teh marines outside of the hive, making your entire example irrellevent
After all the seiges would only fire upon being scanned
Most of the games I've been in the typical amount of obs is 2
So u shuld try killing the hive and all of that shizz with only 2 obs, I bet u could be at full enrgy with the obs and still the hive wuld not go down if 2 gorges + adren ^grade
come on guys if you are going to say this
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok, so we have everybody speculating and telling each other what they think, but here are some facts. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but you come way short very disappointing I want sum closure on these changes