SpoogeThunderbolt missile in your cheeriosJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 67Members
In turn, however, it is not appropriate for her friends to drive a wedge between Rue and his GF. From a Christian perspective, it is her friends' duty to support her and offer her guidance but unless there is some abhorrent behavior from Rue, they need to stay outside and not interfere. If her Christianity is that important in her life, then she will ask for guidance from the only opinion that matters.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Pepe_Muffassa+Oct 26 2004, 01:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pepe_Muffassa @ Oct 26 2004, 01:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> At this point, I'm going to ask for a bit more info.
How old are you? How old is she? How long have you been dating? What denomination (read "type") of Church is she from (ie, Baptist, Christian Reformed, Catholic, Pentecostal, Evangelical Free)
And Rue, don't get me wrong - this isn't about "hating" somone for having a different belief system. This is simply an acknowledgment of those differences and trying to take the best course of action to deal with them.
Let me try to put it in a more clear light. Once a person becomes a Christian, they become ascociated to Christ. Christ becomes God in that persons life. Christ is directly involved in any other relationships that the person might have - marriage, parenting, friendships, dating - all become "Christ centered". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Depends entirely on the person in question, people have different interprention you know.
In all honesty Pepe I do not think age really matters all that much. Considering they have both entered into this relationship voluntarily, and they have passed the small hurdle that is both going to church and extracircular(sp) activities and such. I would be inclined to say her friends need to simply stop attempting to meddle.
Unforunately, I have a similar experience and in the end his friends did win out. That being the case, and as I look back I can see that if he is that easily swayed by silly notions put into his head, he probably wasn't the best mate in the world. (I may be biased on that, after all it still does hurt a bit.)
I must agree with spooge, unless he has some very abnormal behaviour, which does not appear to be the case it is not in their interest nor should they care about what she decides, after all she is free to make her own choices and she has thus far made a good one. IMO.
In my experience the people who always go to church and act very religious can sometimes be evil more so and more often than the people with no organized religion. Osama Bin Laden is very religious. Saddam put on a front of being very religious. Most political leaders are very religious.
From my observations: Religion + Politics = Evil & Effective
So while being highly/very/hyper religious can mean you're the <i>nicest</i> person in the world (as some people I know are), but it does <i><b>not</b></i> guarantee it.
Occasionally it can even have the opposite effect. For example, my probability would say that the person who runs <a href='http://www.jesus-is-lord.com' target='_blank'>this site</a> is likely a total jerk. He tries to force the gospel onto others and curse "the heavens/non-believers" but in fact by doing so he's ignoring the <i>meaning</i> of the words and <i>that</i> is what matters. "Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to God" Ha! Lies! I say that is total BS. God doesn't care the procedure that you love him and the rest of creation as long as you do. Besides, if I remember correctly didn't Jesus say "the church of God resides" in you or something like that? I would say to this person that I already have my religion inside me. Just because I don't pay service to any organized religion does in now way mean I'm not religious. In fact I would go on to say to this person that I feel sorry that your soul is not free like mine is. Free to find the truth in all religions and decide for my self what I believe. (and I do take a lot of the meaning from various religions) Perhaps that is what it means to be a true Xzianthian, to be free.
I do not force other to believe the way I do, and I expect you all to give me the same respect. (even though I know many won't)
To answer you question I know of examples where this threads title is sadly true, but I believe that the human spirit for the overwhelming majority is good.
<!--QuoteBegin-x5+Oct 28 2004, 05:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (x5 @ Oct 28 2004, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In my experience the people who always go to church and act very religious can sometimes be evil more so and more often than the people with no organized religion. Osama Bin Laden is very religious. Saddam put on a front of being very religious. Most political leaders are very religious.
From my observations: Religion + Politics = Evil & Effective
So while being highly/very/hyper religious can mean you're the <i>nicest</i> person in the world (as some people I know are), but it does <i><b>not</b></i> guarantee it.
Occasionally it can even have the opposite effect. For example, my probability would say that the person who runs <a href='http://www.jesus-is-lord.com' target='_blank'>this site</a> is likely a total jerk. He tries to force the gospel onto others and curse "the heavens/non-believers" but in fact by doing so he's ignoring the <i>meaning</i> of the words and <i>that</i> is what matters. "Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to God" Ha! Lies! I say that is total BS. God doesn't care the procedure that you love him and the rest of creation as long as you do. Besides, if I remember correctly didn't Jesus say "the church of God resides" in you or something like that? I would say to this person that I already have my religion inside me. Just because I don't pay service to any organized religion does in now way mean I'm not religious. In fact I would go on to say to this person that I feel sorry that your soul is not free like mine is. Free to find the truth in all religions and decide for my self what I believe. (and I do take a lot of the meaning from various religions) Perhaps that is what it means to be a true Xzianthian, to be free.
I do not force other to believe the way I do, and I expect you all to give me the same respect. (even though I know many won't)
To answer you question I know of examples where this threads title is sadly true, but I believe that the human spirit for the overwhelming majority is good. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You're right, he says that the church resides in the followers of Him, not in a building. The trick to it is, religous centers don't acctually posses the authority of God, thier role is intended to be a role of mutual support amoung belivers. There is nothing wrong with belivers taking positions of political authority, but the religious is the sum of its people, and shouldn't be, in and of itself, at political institution. That being said, simply beliving in Christ, or calling yourself Christian, or even doing the work of the Kindom, doesn't make you a Christian, nor does it make you a better person. But walking with Christ and doing your duty in the kingdom of God does.
Just to be controversial, I'll throw out another quote from Jesus. "I am the way, the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me." That is a quote I would like to see more multi religional people tackle, as it really forms the framework for the Christian religion, but I have yet to see someone honestly exigies it from any walk.
Well... if the so called "friends" try to drag her away of the heathens at any cost , you might want to plant the seed of doubt into her (physically ? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->) as a counterattack , if she really loves you she can't contemplate the thought of breaking that love just because of her god. If she's happy with having god over you... well that's not fair game imho <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Until you somehow find a church run by Jesus/God/etc. personally, all of them will be subject to the flaws that humans have. Greed, lust for power, and willingness to commit a little evil for the sake of a "greater good" sometimes overshadow what the churches are meant to represent: togetherness, altruism, and furthering your religious understanding.
Swiftspear, the problem with your quote is that it's challenging to define what it means to come to the Father through Jesus. I think that it has to be defined broadly to be useful, and that point is probably broad enough to include the good souls from other religions as well.
People can get mixed up in what it really means to be a believer in Christ. There are only a few basic things that are key. Accept Jesus as God, in that he died and ressurected for us. Try to live like he did.
In your situation, your gf's friends are programmed to think that because someone is not in Christ, then they should be abandoned. This of course is completely wrong and conflicts with this religion. Love your neighbors, oppressors, and enemies. I suggest if you want to figure out what to do...try praying. Even if you have no religion, just take a minute to pray about anything. The answers are everywhere, just takes time to see them clearly.
If your gf is buying into her friends propoganda, I suggest you take some time to talk to her about what being a Christian really is about. Learn together.
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Oct 25 2004, 07:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Oct 25 2004, 07:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For whatever reason she chose to be with you and they should respect that choice. Besides, she may eventually come around to an agnostic, atheist, or otherwise non-christian perspective and the matter will be solved. But even if that doesn't happen it is likely you'll break up over any of a hundred other things that commonly plaugue relationships before you break up over this relatively insignificant difference in opinion.
Oh, and I agree with others when they say that the ball is in her court now (assuming you've already talked to her about it), theres really nothing you can or should do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't forget to respect her opinion and you really should not expect her to 'come around' to a non-christian belief.
There is no reason to expect her to alter her beliefs just as we do not expect you to 'come around' to Christianity.
<!--QuoteBegin-Jojoshua+Oct 29 2004, 12:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jojoshua @ Oct 29 2004, 12:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> People can get mixed up in what it really means to be a believer in Christ. There are only a few basic things that are key. Accept Jesus as God, in that he died and ressurected for us. Try to live like he did.
In your situation, your gf's friends are programmed to think that because someone is not in Christ, then they should be abandoned. This of course is completely wrong and conflicts with this religion. Love your neighbors, oppressors, and enemies. I suggest if you want to figure out what to do...try praying. Even if you have no religion, just take a minute to pray about anything. The answers are everywhere, just takes time to see them clearly.
If your gf is buying into her friends propoganda, I suggest you take some time to talk to her about what being a Christian really is about. Learn together. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is true. One of the core beliefs of Christianity is to love the sinner but hate the sin. However it is important to also remember when to cut your losses.
This is a really tough situation and there is no one correct answer. At least there is no one answer that will leave everyone happy. As long as you and your gf are not pushing each other one way or another you should be fine.
<!--QuoteBegin-Stakhanov+Oct 29 2004, 06:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stakhanov @ Oct 29 2004, 06:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well... if the so called "friends" try to drag her away of the heathens at any cost , you might want to plant the seed of doubt into her (physically ? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->) as a counterattack , if she really loves you she can't contemplate the thought of breaking that love just because of her god. If she's happy with having god over you... well that's not fair game imho <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If she really loves him she wants what is best for him, even if that means breaking up with him. And if she follows the lines of the wisdom of the bible, she will determine that being seperate from eachother relationally is best for him. If she really loves him, the last thing she wants is to jepordize his eternal soul by allowing him to look down on her and her religion in a relational context.
[edit] to clarify, love isn't simply a desire to be with said loved person, not by any means [/edit]
<!--QuoteBegin- taboofires+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ( taboofires)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Until you somehow find a church run by Jesus/God/etc. personally, all of them will be subject to the flaws that humans have. Greed, lust for power, and willingness to commit a little evil for the sake of a "greater good" sometimes overshadow what the churches are meant to represent: togetherness, altruism, and furthering your religious understanding.
Swiftspear, the problem with your quote is that it's challenging to define what it means to come to the Father through Jesus. I think that it has to be defined broadly to be useful, and that point is probably broad enough to include the good souls from other religions as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That church exists... well it exists in theory at least. When I refer to the 'kindom of God' that it what I am refering too. The international body of Christians who hold themselfs accountable to God and God alone, through understanding of the bible, love and acceptance of all peoples, and accountability to thier Christian brethren. You can tell a true christan instantly by thier disregard for denominational issues, and thier albearing love for every lost child of God. Unfortunately, within the established church institutions, they are the minority. I can follow the laws of the United States of America, but does that make me an American? Christianity works the same way.
'Good souls' aren't the issue here. All humans are, by definition, sinners uncapable of meeting the standards which would be required to enter the kingdom of heaven by acts alone. God knows I certainly am. To be saved, one must accept the gift of forgiveness given openly to any who ask... The real issue is weather you acctually need to know the name of Jesus Christ to accept his forgiveness...
<!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Oct 29 2004, 06:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Oct 29 2004, 06:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't forget to respect her opinion and you really should not expect her to 'come around' to a non-christian belief.
There is no reason to expect her to alter her beliefs just as we do not expect you to 'come around' to Christianity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh... it's called the evolution of one's personality. You really need to shift your expectations <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> just as people can be seduced by christian concepts , christians can grow tired of them and switch to other beliefs/doubts systems.
About the "respect one's opinion" thing : it was being discussed a while ago , we need to resume arguing stat <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Stakhanov+Oct 29 2004, 01:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stakhanov @ Oct 29 2004, 01:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Oct 29 2004, 06:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Oct 29 2004, 06:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't forget to respect her opinion and you really should not expect her to 'come around' to a non-christian belief.
There is no reason to expect her to alter her beliefs just as we do not expect you to 'come around' to Christianity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh... it's called the evolution of one's personality. You really need to shift your expectations <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> just as people can be seduced by christian concepts , christians can grow tired of them and switch to other beliefs/doubts systems.
About the "respect one's opinion" thing : it was being discussed a while ago , we need to resume arguing stat <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was arguing <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> . I found the choice of words "come around to..." to be a bit slanted in how they suggested that her being Christian was somehow equivalent to being 'wrong' and thus something that she might fix in time.
Well don't you think that being an atheist is being wrong <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You once said you believed that one was the sum of one's ideas. I think that the self is rather what's processing ideas , what's accepting/rejecting them. The ideas you're "hosting" (believing in) do not define what you are , they just influence your actions and your perception of the universe. But your self decides what to do with them , to use/neglect/accept/reject them.
<!--QuoteBegin-Stakhanov+Oct 29 2004, 01:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stakhanov @ Oct 29 2004, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well don't you think that being an atheist is being wrong <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You once said you believed that one was the sum of one's ideas. I think that the self is rather what's processing ideas , what's accepting/rejecting them. The ideas you're "hosting" (believing in) do not define what you are , they just influence your actions and your perception of the universe. But your self decides what to do with them , to use/neglect/accept/reject them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> My other statement would have been better worded that you are nothing more than your actions make you.
However, I never said that there was anything wrong with being an Athiest. I never said I was Christian either.
If you had to come up with a term for my belief system I think the best approximation would be:
<!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Oct 29 2004, 12:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Oct 29 2004, 12:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Oct 25 2004, 07:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Oct 25 2004, 07:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For whatever reason she chose to be with you and they should respect that choice. Besides, she may eventually come around to an agnostic, atheist, or otherwise non-christian perspective and the matter will be solved. But even if that doesn't happen it is likely you'll break up over any of a hundred other things that commonly plaugue relationships before you break up over this relatively insignificant difference in opinion.
Oh, and I agree with others when they say that the ball is in her court now (assuming you've already talked to her about it), theres really nothing you can or should do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't forget to respect her opinion and you really should not expect her to 'come around' to a non-christian belief.
There is no reason to expect her to alter her beliefs just as we do not expect you to 'come around' to Christianity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Most likely she won't, and I don't think he should try to make her, that would be as bad as what her friends are doing. The point was that he shouldn't take Pepe's advice.
I think the problem revolves around how devout she is. Alot of my friends are christian, but not devout and enjoy relationships with people who aren't religious. One of my friends was in the same sort of problem you are, neither him or his gf had a problem but some of her friends did, they worked through it and she introduced him properly to her friends, now they all get along fine.
Maybe if your gf's friends knew you better it could be alot easier.
<!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Oct 29 2004, 02:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Oct 29 2004, 02:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Stakhanov+Oct 29 2004, 01:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stakhanov @ Oct 29 2004, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well don't you think that being an atheist is being wrong <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You once said you believed that one was the sum of one's ideas. I think that the self is rather what's processing ideas , what's accepting/rejecting them. The ideas you're "hosting" (believing in) do not define what you are , they just influence your actions and your perception of the universe. But your self decides what to do with them , to use/neglect/accept/reject them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> My other statement would have been better worded that you are nothing more than your actions make you.
However, I never said that there was anything wrong with being an Athiest. I never said I was Christian either.
If you had to come up with a term for my belief system I think the best approximation would be:
<b>Devil's Advocate</b> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Always a great side, challenge the assumptions of any takers. I do it all the time.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rue+Oct 25 2004, 05:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rue @ Oct 25 2004, 05:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I however am an aithiest, had a christian upbrining. Between us we have had no problem in this area I guess I'm lucky <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway the reason for this thread is because a few of her friends have started giving her into trouble because she is seeing me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Just wondering if any of you guys have had the same problem and what you done about it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I am an athiest as well, there are 3 choices you need to consider if you suspect it may not work.....It all depends how you feel about the subject. You obviously feel as if your girlfriend is important, and these people are an influence/threat to your relationship.
Choice 1:Try giving her church a chance, try it out once or twice and if you like it, get involved.
Choice 2:Assure your girlfriend that it you are who you are, and explain to her that it shouldn't matter what their friends feel, because all that matters is you and her think about each other. Explain that it is common for there to be a successful relationship when religion\culture barriers are present.
Choice 3:Get her to convert to what you believe in, and reject her friends, I do not recommend this.
The choice is yours, but keep in mind that you gotta try something, because the parents, or her friends may be trying to sabotage the relationship. I suspect this is happening, but don't worry, if she likes you enough theres nothing to worry about.
I wrote a really mean response earlier in the day because you guys are ignoring the actual question to focus on whether or not she's being a good Christian, for some reason. Reason prevailed.
Anyway, the jist of the matter was that I've seen a lot of relationships succeed and a lot of relationships fail and what matters has nothing to do with your religion. Most of the kids in my schools came from "mixed" religion families because of the nature of our community. I've seen athiest/hindu, christian/muslim, christian/hindu, christian/athiest relationships all prevail and, in fact, most of the relationships that I've seen fail have been between two christians. Religion is not a factor.
No matter whether two people's ideologies are similar or different, they have grown up in different environments and will have at least slightly different views about what is important. Good relationships succeed because of compromise.
Now. The real question is what should he do about her friends, who, in my opinion, are being nosy and inconsiderate of <i>her</i> interests, no matter what their intentions may be. Personally, the first thing I would do is lay my cards out on the table in front of them. However, I am fairly confidant of my ability to explain my position. If you aren't it may be worth it to seek an authority figure, either your parents or hers would be excellent, for advice. Even the pastor may be an option. Of course, these are not preferable to talking it out yourself.
I can't see how any but the most extreme would forsake a worthwhile companion because of religion, and even in those cases, you're probably better off without them, aren't you?
the argument cuts both ways, ekent. i can't see how any but the most extreme would forsake longtime friends for a companion who doesn't respect her beliefs (not saying you are one, Rue, just responding to ekent's argument). obviously something must be done, whether it be confrontational or not, but i don't think it's as simple as the either-or scenario you're making it out to be. Are you suggesting that if they refuse to "come around" and tolerate Rue, that she should break off her friendship with them?
<!--QuoteBegin-Wheeee+Oct 29 2004, 11:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Oct 29 2004, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the argument cuts both ways, ekent. i can't see how any but the most extreme would forsake longtime friends for a companion who doesn't respect her beliefs (not saying you are one, Rue, just responding to ekent's argument). obviously something must be done, whether it be confrontational or not, but i don't think it's as simple as the either-or scenario you're making it out to be. Are you suggesting that if they refuse to "come around" and tolerate Rue, that she should break off her friendship with them? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think Rue has made it clear that he respects her beliefs; he comes from a family with a Christian parent after all. I am suggesting in the end that if they refuse to come around to <i>decency</i> (a word that should have some meaning within Christian circles), then <b>something</b> will break off, be it her relationship with them, his relationship with her, or something else. Only because they are provoking an unnecessary conflict.
I (hopefully clearly) explained why this is not really an issue about Christianity. So religion aside, it should be easy to see how Rue has the moral side of the argument (given: he told the story). He is the one advocating tolerance, after all. And in the end, isn't that the supremely <i>Christian</i> virtue?
<!--QuoteBegin-(e)kent+Oct 30 2004, 01:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((e)kent @ Oct 30 2004, 01:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wrote a really mean response earlier in the day because you guys are ignoring the actual question to focus on whether or not she's being a good Christian, for some reason. Reason prevailed.
Anyway, the jist of the matter was that I've seen a lot of relationships succeed and a lot of relationships fail and what matters has nothing to do with your religion. Most of the kids in my schools came from "mixed" religion families because of the nature of our community. I've seen athiest/hindu, christian/muslim, christian/hindu, christian/athiest relationships all prevail and, in fact, most of the relationships that I've seen fail have been between two christians. Religion is not a factor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Opinion. I've seen many unevenly yoked relationships fall apart, and I have seen relitively few chritian relationships fall apart. Case studies are too inacurate for the nature of this discussion, I wish I could find those statisics I was talking about earlier.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No matter whether two people's ideologies are similar or different, they have grown up in different environments and will have at least slightly different views about what is important. Good relationships succeed because of compromise.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Opinion. Good relationships succeed because of love and respect, comprimize is just a natural byproduct of those things. Its hard to respect a worldveiw you don't agree with, and that pulls apart many relationships.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now. The real question is what should he do about her friends, who, in my opinion, are being nosy and inconsiderate of <i>her</i> interests, no matter what their intentions may be. Personally, the first thing I would do is lay my cards out on the table in front of them. However, I am fairly confidant of my ability to explain my position. If you aren't it may be worth it to seek an authority figure, either your parents or hers would be excellent, for advice. Even the pastor may be an option. Of course, these are not preferable to talking it out yourself.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In my opinion they are just attemting to be good christian friends... That being said, your second peice of advice was pretty good.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can't see how any but the most extreme would forsake a worthwhile companion because of religion, and even in those cases, you're probably better off without them, aren't you?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, a good friend and a good companion are entities that can be equaly difficult to find.
I hate to say it, but if I were her friend (and I wouldnt be for the world, I dont believe in female friends) I'd have to tell her to break it off <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. However, I'd only say that if she asked for my opinion, and I wouldnt chase her around bugging her to dump Rue. I dont think Christian's should ever enter into romantic relationships with people who dont believe the same thing they do. Nor do I think they should enter a relationship with another Christian "just for fun".
Of course that's the zealots ie my view - nothing should be more important than your faith, and there is no way that an unbelieving parter could ever edify and strengthen your faith, and the potential for the exact opposite is extreme.
The friends aren't important no matter what they say, only your girlfriends opinion matters and if she cares about you then you will stay together.
Mixed religion relationships can work and her friends are just being daft.
I've gone out with a religious girl before and the reason why we broke up was because of the physical distance (silly going all that way, just didn't see each other enough), not because of the distance in our belief's (I don't even believe in a soul). When I went out with her I was glad she was a christian, why? Because if she didn't believe so strongly then she wouldn't have been the same person and I wouldn't have gone out with her. Her belief's were an integral part of her personality just as mine are for me and while we disagreed and had numerous lengthy discussions they never turned agressive and we always accepted each others differences.
I am constantly surprised by the amount of intolerance you can find in the christian community.
<!--QuoteBegin-CMEast+Nov 1 2004, 12:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CMEast @ Nov 1 2004, 12:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I am constantly surprised by the amount of intolerance you can find in the christian community. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Dont be - intolerance exists everywhere. I used to hate Christians because they were stupid, intolerant and disagreeable - right up until I found it was a worldwide epidemic, and Christian's, as humans, had been infected as well.
Do not underestimate the opinions of friends - as independants outside the situation, they can frequently see things more clearly than you. A member of this forum (whose since joined the USMC I think) once asked what we all thought about his plan (at the tender age of 17 years) to go off and start a committed relationship with a woman 6+ years his senior in Europe with a young child - with the full intent of supporting both her and the child. His opinion may have been the deciding factor, but he got a lot of solid advice from people in the community, namely Coil and Doomaniac, and I hope like hell he took it.
My own relationship disaster was blindingly obvious to everyone else save me, but I couldnt be told.
If you are a dedicated Christian, then nothing should be more important to you than your relationship with Christ - and a boyfriend or girlfriend who do not share your belief will <b>never</b> edify that relationship, and will only inhibit it. That shouldnt be acceptable to any Christian - and I am convinced that any Christian they can do it without any side-effects is suffering from naivety. I watched it happen to my sister, and what she said when the relationship was over: "I was so angry that Mom and Dad were right - you cant manage both without one suffering" and I'm currently watching one friend attempting it.
Love is blind, rationality gets the rough end of the stick.
Intolerance does exist everywhere I know, but its strange to see it in a group that believes in tolerance. It would be like walking in to a hospital with a broken arm and not getting treated, I'm sure it's happened but you don't expect it, no, you <b>shouldn't</b> expect it.
I know that friends do have a lot of sway but I also know that in this instance they shouldn't, if he is a good boyfriend he should expect to always come second in her affections after God and I don't see how he can't support her believes. In fact, if someone truly believes then nothing can shake their faith, including natural disasters! How could some guy, no matter how much you love them, change your faith?
Of course, you are right in many ways, it isn't easy to do and many can't do it at all. But then surely they weren't made for each other in the first place? I don't believe in being rational, I try and be as idealistic as possible and if everyone was the same then that ideal would be made real! Lead by example, don't follow everyone else, again something a christian should believe in strongly.
PS. Nothing wrong with an older woman, I've been flirting with a 42 yr old for quite awhile now (I'm 21), in fact the only reason why more hasn't happened is that her 17 yr old son walked in.
<!--QuoteBegin-taboofires+Oct 26 2004, 12:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires @ Oct 26 2004, 12:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ask them whose job it is to judge you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think this comment has gotten enough credit. This is exactly the idea. I think her friends are putting "systemic" procedures ahead of "logical" procedures. What I mean is that the friends have a belief in the Christian faith, which comes with a number of messages about how to treat other people (duh). Unfortunately, I think that the friends are forgetting about the basic concepts of their religion and instead doing things that reflect their institutionalized religion. Sorry, I'm being vague here. Christianity teaches tolerance and compassion (afaik), but many CHURCHES of Christianity place boundaries on this concept; it seems as though these friends have allowed their way of thinking to be governed by a boundary that rejects people of other/no faiths.
I think the girls need to take a good look at the difference between their faith and their practice. When you get down to it, the religious aspect of this conflict is really just a cover for more base feelings - rejection of one who is different to a group. That happens in every group of humans. Through that comparison [ie the conflict being a human trait, the facade being a religious matter], we can see that there is a large difference between concept and execution.
<!--QuoteBegin-Windelkron+Oct 31 2004, 06:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Windelkron @ Oct 31 2004, 06:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Christianity teaches tolerance and compassion (afaik) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You're absolutly correct here. But those concepts aren't concepts that belong in a loving relationship though, expecially compassion. A relationship is between two equals, and if one member needs to be taking compassion on the other member, it isn't good grounds to start the relationship on.
Talking compleatly irrelevenlty of 'the Christian prespective' I just honestly can't see an interreligional relationship working in the long term without one side conceeding to the other, and religion is an area I don't think that people should be conceeding for the purpose of a relationship. Even if Rue were to say, "screw it, its not worth losing the relationship over" and covert, I wouldn't be happy, because I don't think that is a good reason to become a Christian.
Comments
If her Christianity is that important in her life, then she will ask for guidance from the only opinion that matters.
How old are you?
How old is she?
How long have you been dating?
What denomination (read "type") of Church is she from (ie, Baptist, Christian Reformed, Catholic, Pentecostal, Evangelical Free)
And Rue, don't get me wrong - this isn't about "hating" somone for having a different belief system. This is simply an acknowledgment of those differences and trying to take the best course of action to deal with them.
Let me try to put it in a more clear light. Once a person becomes a Christian, they become ascociated to Christ. Christ becomes God in that persons life. Christ is directly involved in any other relationships that the person might have - marriage, parenting, friendships, dating - all become "Christ centered". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends entirely on the person in question, people have different interprention you know.
Unforunately, I have a similar experience and in the end his friends did win out. That being the case, and as I look back I can see that if he is that easily swayed by silly notions put into his head, he probably wasn't the best mate in the world. (I may be biased on that, after all it still does hurt a bit.)
I must agree with spooge, unless he has some very abnormal behaviour, which does not appear to be the case it is not in their interest nor should they care about what she decides, after all she is free to make her own choices and she has thus far made a good one. IMO.
From my observations:
Religion + Politics = Evil & Effective
So while being highly/very/hyper religious can mean you're the <i>nicest</i> person in the world (as some people I know are), but it does <i><b>not</b></i> guarantee it.
Occasionally it can even have the opposite effect. For example, my probability would say that the person who runs <a href='http://www.jesus-is-lord.com' target='_blank'>this site</a> is likely a total jerk. He tries to force the gospel onto others and curse "the heavens/non-believers" but in fact by doing so he's ignoring the <i>meaning</i> of the words and <i>that</i> is what matters. "Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to God" Ha! Lies! I say that is total BS. God doesn't care the procedure that you love him and the rest of creation as long as you do. Besides, if I remember correctly didn't Jesus say "the church of God resides" in you or something like that? I would say to this person that I already have my religion inside me. Just because I don't pay service to any organized religion does in now way mean I'm not religious. In fact I would go on to say to this person that I feel sorry that your soul is not free like mine is. Free to find the truth in all religions and decide for my self what I believe. (and I do take a lot of the meaning from various religions) Perhaps that is what it means to be a true Xzianthian, to be free.
I do not force other to believe the way I do, and I expect you all to give me the same respect.
(even though I know many won't)
To answer you question I know of examples where this threads title is sadly true, but I believe that the human spirit for the overwhelming majority is good.
From my observations:
Religion + Politics = Evil & Effective
So while being highly/very/hyper religious can mean you're the <i>nicest</i> person in the world (as some people I know are), but it does <i><b>not</b></i> guarantee it.
Occasionally it can even have the opposite effect. For example, my probability would say that the person who runs <a href='http://www.jesus-is-lord.com' target='_blank'>this site</a> is likely a total jerk. He tries to force the gospel onto others and curse "the heavens/non-believers" but in fact by doing so he's ignoring the <i>meaning</i> of the words and <i>that</i> is what matters. "Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to God" Ha! Lies! I say that is total BS. God doesn't care the procedure that you love him and the rest of creation as long as you do. Besides, if I remember correctly didn't Jesus say "the church of God resides" in you or something like that? I would say to this person that I already have my religion inside me. Just because I don't pay service to any organized religion does in now way mean I'm not religious. In fact I would go on to say to this person that I feel sorry that your soul is not free like mine is. Free to find the truth in all religions and decide for my self what I believe. (and I do take a lot of the meaning from various religions) Perhaps that is what it means to be a true Xzianthian, to be free.
I do not force other to believe the way I do, and I expect you all to give me the same respect.
(even though I know many won't)
To answer you question I know of examples where this threads title is sadly true, but I believe that the human spirit for the overwhelming majority is good. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right, he says that the church resides in the followers of Him, not in a building. The trick to it is, religous centers don't acctually posses the authority of God, thier role is intended to be a role of mutual support amoung belivers. There is nothing wrong with belivers taking positions of political authority, but the religious is the sum of its people, and shouldn't be, in and of itself, at political institution. That being said, simply beliving in Christ, or calling yourself Christian, or even doing the work of the Kindom, doesn't make you a Christian, nor does it make you a better person. But walking with Christ and doing your duty in the kingdom of God does.
Just to be controversial, I'll throw out another quote from Jesus. "I am the way, the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me." That is a quote I would like to see more multi religional people tackle, as it really forms the framework for the Christian religion, but I have yet to see someone honestly exigies it from any walk.
Swiftspear, the problem with your quote is that it's challenging to define what it means to come to the Father through Jesus. I think that it has to be defined broadly to be useful, and that point is probably broad enough to include the good souls from other religions as well.
In your situation, your gf's friends are programmed to think that because someone is not in Christ, then they should be abandoned. This of course is completely wrong and conflicts with this religion. Love your neighbors, oppressors, and enemies. I suggest if you want to figure out what to do...try praying. Even if you have no religion, just take a minute to pray about anything. The answers are everywhere, just takes time to see them clearly.
If your gf is buying into her friends propoganda, I suggest you take some time to talk to her about what being a Christian really is about. Learn together.
Oh, and I agree with others when they say that the ball is in her court now (assuming you've already talked to her about it), theres really nothing you can or should do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't forget to respect her opinion and you really should not expect her to 'come around' to a non-christian belief.
There is no reason to expect her to alter her beliefs just as we do not expect you to 'come around' to Christianity.
In your situation, your gf's friends are programmed to think that because someone is not in Christ, then they should be abandoned. This of course is completely wrong and conflicts with this religion. Love your neighbors, oppressors, and enemies. I suggest if you want to figure out what to do...try praying. Even if you have no religion, just take a minute to pray about anything. The answers are everywhere, just takes time to see them clearly.
If your gf is buying into her friends propoganda, I suggest you take some time to talk to her about what being a Christian really is about. Learn together. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is true. One of the core beliefs of Christianity is to love the sinner but hate the sin. However it is important to also remember when to cut your losses.
This is a really tough situation and there is no one correct answer. At least there is no one answer that will leave everyone happy. As long as you and your gf are not pushing each other one way or another you should be fine.
If she really loves him she wants what is best for him, even if that means breaking up with him. And if she follows the lines of the wisdom of the bible, she will determine that being seperate from eachother relationally is best for him. If she really loves him, the last thing she wants is to jepordize his eternal soul by allowing him to look down on her and her religion in a relational context.
[edit] to clarify, love isn't simply a desire to be with said loved person, not by any means [/edit]
<!--QuoteBegin- taboofires+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ( taboofires)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Until you somehow find a church run by Jesus/God/etc. personally, all of them will be subject to the flaws that humans have. Greed, lust for power, and willingness to commit a little evil for the sake of a "greater good" sometimes overshadow what the churches are meant to represent: togetherness, altruism, and furthering your religious understanding.
Swiftspear, the problem with your quote is that it's challenging to define what it means to come to the Father through Jesus. I think that it has to be defined broadly to be useful, and that point is probably broad enough to include the good souls from other religions as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That church exists... well it exists in theory at least. When I refer to the 'kindom of God' that it what I am refering too. The international body of Christians who hold themselfs accountable to God and God alone, through understanding of the bible, love and acceptance of all peoples, and accountability to thier Christian brethren. You can tell a true christan instantly by thier disregard for denominational issues, and thier albearing love for every lost child of God. Unfortunately, within the established church institutions, they are the minority. I can follow the laws of the United States of America, but does that make me an American? Christianity works the same way.
'Good souls' aren't the issue here. All humans are, by definition, sinners uncapable of meeting the standards which would be required to enter the kingdom of heaven by acts alone. God knows I certainly am. To be saved, one must accept the gift of forgiveness given openly to any who ask... The real issue is weather you acctually need to know the name of Jesus Christ to accept his forgiveness...
There is no reason to expect her to alter her beliefs just as we do not expect you to 'come around' to Christianity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh... it's called the evolution of one's personality. You really need to shift your expectations <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> just as people can be seduced by christian concepts , christians can grow tired of them and switch to other beliefs/doubts systems.
About the "respect one's opinion" thing : it was being discussed a while ago , we need to resume arguing stat <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There is no reason to expect her to alter her beliefs just as we do not expect you to 'come around' to Christianity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh... it's called the evolution of one's personality. You really need to shift your expectations <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> just as people can be seduced by christian concepts , christians can grow tired of them and switch to other beliefs/doubts systems.
About the "respect one's opinion" thing : it was being discussed a while ago , we need to resume arguing stat <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was arguing <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> . I found the choice of words "come around to..." to be a bit slanted in how they suggested that her being Christian was somehow equivalent to being 'wrong' and thus something that she might fix in time.
You once said you believed that one was the sum of one's ideas. I think that the self is rather what's processing ideas , what's accepting/rejecting them. The ideas you're "hosting" (believing in) do not define what you are , they just influence your actions and your perception of the universe. But your self decides what to do with them , to use/neglect/accept/reject them.
You once said you believed that one was the sum of one's ideas. I think that the self is rather what's processing ideas , what's accepting/rejecting them. The ideas you're "hosting" (believing in) do not define what you are , they just influence your actions and your perception of the universe. But your self decides what to do with them , to use/neglect/accept/reject them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My other statement would have been better worded that you are nothing more than your actions make you.
However, I never said that there was anything wrong with being an Athiest. I never said I was Christian either.
If you had to come up with a term for my belief system I think the best approximation would be:
<b>Devil's Advocate</b>
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh, and I agree with others when they say that the ball is in her court now (assuming you've already talked to her about it), theres really nothing you can or should do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't forget to respect her opinion and you really should not expect her to 'come around' to a non-christian belief.
There is no reason to expect her to alter her beliefs just as we do not expect you to 'come around' to Christianity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most likely she won't, and I don't think he should try to make her, that would be as bad as what her friends are doing. The point was that he shouldn't take Pepe's advice.
Maybe if your gf's friends knew you better it could be alot easier.
You once said you believed that one was the sum of one's ideas. I think that the self is rather what's processing ideas , what's accepting/rejecting them. The ideas you're "hosting" (believing in) do not define what you are , they just influence your actions and your perception of the universe. But your self decides what to do with them , to use/neglect/accept/reject them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My other statement would have been better worded that you are nothing more than your actions make you.
However, I never said that there was anything wrong with being an Athiest. I never said I was Christian either.
If you had to come up with a term for my belief system I think the best approximation would be:
<b>Devil's Advocate</b>
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Always a great side, challenge the assumptions of any takers. I do it all the time.
Anyway the reason for this thread is because a few of her friends have started giving her into trouble because she is seeing me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just wondering if any of you guys have had the same problem and what you done about it
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am an athiest as well, there are 3 choices you need to consider if you suspect it may not work.....It all depends how you feel about the subject. You obviously feel as if your girlfriend is important, and these people are an influence/threat to your relationship.
Choice 1:Try giving her church a chance, try it out once or twice and if you like it, get involved.
Choice 2:Assure your girlfriend that it you are who you are, and explain to her that it shouldn't matter what their friends feel, because all that matters is you and her think about each other. Explain that it is common for there to be a successful relationship when religion\culture barriers are present.
Choice 3:Get her to convert to what you believe in, and reject her friends, I do not recommend this.
The choice is yours, but keep in mind that you gotta try something, because the parents, or her friends may be trying to sabotage the relationship. I suspect this is happening, but don't worry, if she likes you enough theres nothing to worry about.
Anyway, the jist of the matter was that I've seen a lot of relationships succeed and a lot of relationships fail and what matters has nothing to do with your religion. Most of the kids in my schools came from "mixed" religion families because of the nature of our community. I've seen athiest/hindu, christian/muslim, christian/hindu, christian/athiest relationships all prevail and, in fact, most of the relationships that I've seen fail have been between two christians. Religion is not a factor.
No matter whether two people's ideologies are similar or different, they have grown up in different environments and will have at least slightly different views about what is important. Good relationships succeed because of compromise.
Now. The real question is what should he do about her friends, who, in my opinion, are being nosy and inconsiderate of <i>her</i> interests, no matter what their intentions may be. Personally, the first thing I would do is lay my cards out on the table in front of them. However, I am fairly confidant of my ability to explain my position. If you aren't it may be worth it to seek an authority figure, either your parents or hers would be excellent, for advice. Even the pastor may be an option. Of course, these are not preferable to talking it out yourself.
I can't see how any but the most extreme would forsake a worthwhile companion because of religion, and even in those cases, you're probably better off without them, aren't you?
I think Rue has made it clear that he respects her beliefs; he comes from a family with a Christian parent after all. I am suggesting in the end that if they refuse to come around to <i>decency</i> (a word that should have some meaning within Christian circles), then <b>something</b> will break off, be it her relationship with them, his relationship with her, or something else. Only because they are provoking an unnecessary conflict.
I (hopefully clearly) explained why this is not really an issue about Christianity. So religion aside, it should be easy to see how Rue has the moral side of the argument (given: he told the story). He is the one advocating tolerance, after all. And in the end, isn't that the supremely <i>Christian</i> virtue?
Anyway, the jist of the matter was that I've seen a lot of relationships succeed and a lot of relationships fail and what matters has nothing to do with your religion. Most of the kids in my schools came from "mixed" religion families because of the nature of our community. I've seen athiest/hindu, christian/muslim, christian/hindu, christian/athiest relationships all prevail and, in fact, most of the relationships that I've seen fail have been between two christians. Religion is not a factor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Opinion. I've seen many unevenly yoked relationships fall apart, and I have seen relitively few chritian relationships fall apart. Case studies are too inacurate for the nature of this discussion, I wish I could find those statisics I was talking about earlier.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No matter whether two people's ideologies are similar or different, they have grown up in different environments and will have at least slightly different views about what is important. Good relationships succeed because of compromise.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Opinion. Good relationships succeed because of love and respect, comprimize is just a natural byproduct of those things. Its hard to respect a worldveiw you don't agree with, and that pulls apart many relationships.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now. The real question is what should he do about her friends, who, in my opinion, are being nosy and inconsiderate of <i>her</i> interests, no matter what their intentions may be. Personally, the first thing I would do is lay my cards out on the table in front of them. However, I am fairly confidant of my ability to explain my position. If you aren't it may be worth it to seek an authority figure, either your parents or hers would be excellent, for advice. Even the pastor may be an option. Of course, these are not preferable to talking it out yourself.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my opinion they are just attemting to be good christian friends... That being said, your second peice of advice was pretty good.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can't see how any but the most extreme would forsake a worthwhile companion because of religion, and even in those cases, you're probably better off without them, aren't you?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, a good friend and a good companion are entities that can be equaly difficult to find.
I hate to say it, but if I were her friend (and I wouldnt be for the world, I dont believe in female friends) I'd have to tell her to break it off <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. However, I'd only say that if she asked for my opinion, and I wouldnt chase her around bugging her to dump Rue. I dont think Christian's should ever enter into romantic relationships with people who dont believe the same thing they do. Nor do I think they should enter a relationship with another Christian "just for fun".
Of course that's the zealots ie my view - nothing should be more important than your faith, and there is no way that an unbelieving parter could ever edify and strengthen your faith, and the potential for the exact opposite is extreme.
Mixed religion relationships can work and her friends are just being daft.
I've gone out with a religious girl before and the reason why we broke up was because of the physical distance (silly going all that way, just didn't see each other enough), not because of the distance in our belief's (I don't even believe in a soul). When I went out with her I was glad she was a christian, why? Because if she didn't believe so strongly then she wouldn't have been the same person and I wouldn't have gone out with her. Her belief's were an integral part of her personality just as mine are for me and while we disagreed and had numerous lengthy discussions they never turned agressive and we always accepted each others differences.
I am constantly surprised by the amount of intolerance you can find in the christian community.
Dont be - intolerance exists everywhere. I used to hate Christians because they were stupid, intolerant and disagreeable - right up until I found it was a worldwide epidemic, and Christian's, as humans, had been infected as well.
Do not underestimate the opinions of friends - as independants outside the situation, they can frequently see things more clearly than you. A member of this forum (whose since joined the USMC I think) once asked what we all thought about his plan (at the tender age of 17 years) to go off and start a committed relationship with a woman 6+ years his senior in Europe with a young child - with the full intent of supporting both her and the child. His opinion may have been the deciding factor, but he got a lot of solid advice from people in the community, namely Coil and Doomaniac, and I hope like hell he took it.
My own relationship disaster was blindingly obvious to everyone else save me, but I couldnt be told.
If you are a dedicated Christian, then nothing should be more important to you than your relationship with Christ - and a boyfriend or girlfriend who do not share your belief will <b>never</b> edify that relationship, and will only inhibit it. That shouldnt be acceptable to any Christian - and I am convinced that any Christian they can do it without any side-effects is suffering from naivety. I watched it happen to my sister, and what she said when the relationship was over: "I was so angry that Mom and Dad were right - you cant manage both without one suffering" and I'm currently watching one friend attempting it.
Love is blind, rationality gets the rough end of the stick.
I know that friends do have a lot of sway but I also know that in this instance they shouldn't, if he is a good boyfriend he should expect to always come second in her affections after God and I don't see how he can't support her believes. In fact, if someone truly believes then nothing can shake their faith, including natural disasters! How could some guy, no matter how much you love them, change your faith?
Of course, you are right in many ways, it isn't easy to do and many can't do it at all. But then surely they weren't made for each other in the first place? I don't believe in being rational, I try and be as idealistic as possible and if everyone was the same then that ideal would be made real! Lead by example, don't follow everyone else, again something a christian should believe in strongly.
PS. Nothing wrong with an older woman, I've been flirting with a 42 yr old for quite awhile now (I'm 21), in fact the only reason why more hasn't happened is that her 17 yr old son walked in.
I don't think this comment has gotten enough credit. This is exactly the idea. I think her friends are putting "systemic" procedures ahead of "logical" procedures. What I mean is that the friends have a belief in the Christian faith, which comes with a number of messages about how to treat other people (duh). Unfortunately, I think that the friends are forgetting about the basic concepts of their religion and instead doing things that reflect their institutionalized religion. Sorry, I'm being vague here. Christianity teaches tolerance and compassion (afaik), but many CHURCHES of Christianity place boundaries on this concept; it seems as though these friends have allowed their way of thinking to be governed by a boundary that rejects people of other/no faiths.
I think the girls need to take a good look at the difference between their faith and their practice. When you get down to it, the religious aspect of this conflict is really just a cover for more base feelings - rejection of one who is different to a group. That happens in every group of humans. Through that comparison [ie the conflict being a human trait, the facade being a religious matter], we can see that there is a large difference between concept and execution.
You're absolutly correct here. But those concepts aren't concepts that belong in a loving relationship though, expecially compassion. A relationship is between two equals, and if one member needs to be taking compassion on the other member, it isn't good grounds to start the relationship on.
Talking compleatly irrelevenlty of 'the Christian prespective' I just honestly can't see an interreligional relationship working in the long term without one side conceeding to the other, and religion is an area I don't think that people should be conceeding for the purpose of a relationship. Even if Rue were to say, "screw it, its not worth losing the relationship over" and covert, I wouldn't be happy, because I don't think that is a good reason to become a Christian.