<!--QuoteBegin-Cereal_KillR+Sep 15 2004, 02:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Sep 15 2004, 02:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> longer games WITH A CHANCE OF COMEBACK.
Not moving forever around a marine base cramped in a hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree. Let's get Zunni to say:
"Ok I see you want longer games, but how should we go about doing that."
Then we can finally debate on how which is the fun part.
long epic battles are great <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
but combacks very often just plain boring, because your very slight chances...
also we should define what long means <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> for me its between 30 and 60 minutes
for me long is 1-3 hours, or a couple of days... :-)
By comebacks I assume you mean powershifts, where the terriotry does not have strong lines, but a dynamic changing contour.
PS: my opinion on turrets is more damaging (or same damage and faster rate of fire) but half health points, model need to be changed to something that looks more like a parking meter bolted to the floor. (why they can't get knocked over)
The biggest challenge is getting this to work irrelevant of the server size. Whether it's 4 max players or 100 max players. Obviously the larger the player numbers, the more of a strong defense there is going to be, smaller games will always be fairly dynamic in the territory contolled.
To all the flamers: PLEASE read the original thread too. There were many interesting suggestions and the subject has been discussed there deeply and without flames.
Yes.. a long game is 60 minutes and longer for me... it doesnt have be an epic game always but the normal average game should be IMHO at least like 60-90 minutes (and not 20 minutes like it is now).
i would love for a dev to jsut come and make a thread asking what we would like to see to make the games longer.
then everyone can say what they think is good, then they collect all the data, average it out, and just repost it. then we can have a "changelog" of what the next beta WOULD look like if we went ahead with it. then we can discuss what the good points and the bad points of it are.
<!--QuoteBegin-IBT+Sep 15 2004, 01:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IBT @ Sep 15 2004, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-GiGaBiTe+Sep 15 2004, 09:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GiGaBiTe @ Sep 15 2004, 09:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i remember a server back in the ns 1.4 days where they had 1 game on ns_nothing that lasted for about a week strait (people played in shifts) now that was an awesome game. and there was always some sort of action on the map, not just campers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> holy crap, i thought 2 days was long... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, I doubt a week long game really happened. Either it didnt happen, or he was playing on a server that absolutely owns everything on the market. NS 1.0x takes a heavy toll on the server. Long games hurt it even more (remember, it still keeps track of structures that were destroyed). From what I remember, its rare to find a server that can take an NS game that goes beyond 5hrs+ before crashing. One week is impossible.
antifreezeThe guy with the goods!Join Date: 2003-05-12Member: 16232Members, Constellation
i started playing in late 1.03 early 1.04 sorta time.
The long games really pawned. Being able to constantly fight and have action all over the map was great. I found that the bigger serversseem to do this the best. The longest i have ever played was on ns_nothing and one of the seige maps, cant remeber which. Nothing was thelongest though at about 5 1/2 hours. By then everyone was lagging so much though it was almost impossible to play. I started with a ping of about 35-45 and ended with one around 500-600. Pain in the arse but oh well.
My word on this really is that combat was designed for a quick game. Go in, dont need to know any strats and just shoot things. Simple, quick and easy. NS on the otherhand i eleive should be almost the total opposite, a hard, long and complex game involving proper strategy. Combat is sorta the training arena for NS, and so NS needs to move further away from combat in terms of gameplay.
<!--QuoteBegin-agentx5+Sep 14 2004, 05:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (agentx5 @ Sep 14 2004, 05:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Harmondo+Sep 14 2004, 05:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harmondo @ Sep 14 2004, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> oh please... anyone who thinks they're going to make a comeback are kidding themselves. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is your opinion which I respect, but I have a right to disagree. Especially when you start to BS others...
First, pehaps I have played many more games than you in the older versions, but I don't like quick CS style rounds even if the so-called "brat clans" like them.
I myself have made numerous comebacks in 1.0 and 2.0 both marine and alien. So you are quite incorrect on that one mate and no I'm not kidding. Perhaps you have always played with less intelligent people?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is no reason a game should last between 30 minutes and an hour and a half if this is not going on...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why? I agree that a grid lock might be boring if you aren't trying. (which makes me want to jump to the conclusion that you are one of those lazy marines everyone hates) But when the battle get's to be a raging intense firefight with rapid exchange of territory and not clear victor in sight then yes, to me and other I have met, think this is fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not everyone has the time nor the patience to sit in a game for an hour<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok... Laf, then don't play NS n00b. Adios
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only map these "wars" took place were on ns_nothing... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> um no... I have had many an "epic war" with my British friends on the ol' Team Fun's Alergic Reaction server on WON on serveral maps. ns_tanith and ns_hera propably had more.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And that was simply because of the map's structure and the fact that neither team could ever finish off the others.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because it was balanced and everyone (except you obviously) was trying their hardest.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Very seldomly will a game that goes beyond the 30 minute mark actually be fun for 3/4 of the people in that server.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey punk! Don't make up numbers. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Actually the poll is proving exactly the opposite. There is a clear difference between making an opinion and BS the public with false info and you just crossed it buddy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-agentx5+Sep 14 2004, 05:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (agentx5 @ Sep 14 2004, 05:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Harmondo+Sep 14 2004, 05:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harmondo @ Sep 14 2004, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> oh please... anyone who thinks they're going to make a comeback are kidding themselves. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is your opinion which I respect, but I have a right to disagree. Especially when you start to BS others...
First, pehaps I have played many more games than you in the older versions, but I don't like quick CS style rounds even if the so-called "brat clans" like them.
I myself have made numerous comebacks in 1.0 and 2.0 both marine and alien. So you are quite incorrect on that one mate and no I'm not kidding. Perhaps you have always played with less intelligent people?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is no reason a game should last between 30 minutes and an hour and a half if this is not going on...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why? I agree that a grid lock might be boring if you aren't trying. (which makes me want to jump to the conclusion that you are one of those lazy marines everyone hates) But when the battle get's to be a raging intense firefight with rapid exchange of territory and not clear victor in sight then yes, to me and other I have met, think this is fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not everyone has the time nor the patience to sit in a game for an hour<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok... Laf, then don't play NS n00b. Adios
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only map these "wars" took place were on ns_nothing... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> um no... I have had many an "epic war" with my British friends on the ol' Team Fun's Alergic Reaction server on WON on serveral maps. ns_tanith and ns_hera propably had more.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And that was simply because of the map's structure and the fact that neither team could ever finish off the others.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because it was balanced and everyone (except you obviously) was trying their hardest.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Very seldomly will a game that goes beyond the 30 minute mark actually be fun for 3/4 of the people in that server.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey punk! Don't make up numbers. Actually the poll is proving exactly the opposite. There is a clear difference between making an opinion and BS the public with false info and you just crossed it buddy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Congratulations... you have managed to pick my entire thread apart to find <i>such obvious</i> discrepancies.
Allow me to waste my time doing the same...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->First, pehaps I have played many more games than you in the older versions, but I don't like quick CS style rounds even if the so-called "brat clans" like them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I doubt it. And brat clans... what a joke. Yes that's right, every competitive gamer that doesn't like 3 hours games is a brat clanner. Hit the nail right on the head there. FYI CS rounds last all of 2 minutes, not 20-30.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I myself have made numerous comebacks in 1.0 and 2.0 both marine and alien.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By numerous you speak of at most 1 in 10. There may be small comebacks midpoint in rounds... but not after a 30 or 40 minute mark. It just didn't/doesn't happen.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Perhaps you have always played with less intelligent people?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, again you're right. I choose to surround myself with idiots... as apposed to the genius' that make up the pubbing scene.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why? I agree that a grid lock might be boring if you aren't trying. (which makes me want to jump to the conclusion that you are one of those lazy marines everyone hates) But when the battle get's to be a raging intense firefight with rapid exchange of territory and not clear victor in sight then yes, to me and other I have met, think this is fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damn... you're just awesome at this guessing game. I'm lazy <b>AND</b> sarcastic... Who woulda thought? So these 'intense firefight's with rapage exchange of territory...' -- they must have been really something huh. With 600 pings all around and one team being locked down to 1/4 the map while the other tries to stomp them out like a lit match in a field of fire. Maybe my memory is going as well... but I just can't seem to remember those oh so exciting games going.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok... Laf, then don't play NS n00b. Adios <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Need I say anything...?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->um no... I have had many an "epic war" with my British friends on the ol' Team Fun's Alergic Reaction server on WON on serveral maps. ns_tanith and ns_hera propably had more.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since when was a war even on hera or tanith. The only good battles on hera were at holo room, which wasn't even a war as much as a stakes race to get there first, and at ms where aliens couldn't finish the round because of the structure of ms. Same goes for tanith.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And that was simply because of the map's structure and the fact that neither team could ever finish off the others.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because it was balanced and everyone (except you obviously) was trying their hardest.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> oh that's right... ns_nothing is balanced. hah Damn, right over my head on that one. Would that balance entail the insta jp/hmg rushes to the hives to slaughter them in seconds or the rush for a rr siege or the three res nodes in cargo hive alone? I think your memory deceives you, <i>mate</i>...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hey punk! Don't make up numbers. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Actually the poll is proving exactly the opposite. There is a clear difference between making an opinion and BS the public with false info and you just crossed it buddy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right... it was probably more like 3/5ths, my bad. This poll's a complete **** fest as stated by so many people. It's biased beyond belief. It is, as forlorn has stated as well, is made up of all pubbers posting how much they love these long games but don't know how to accomplish is short of just completely reverting back to 1.04. These are the same people who think we should nerf the jetpack because they don't know how to use leap, add spawn invul because they can't kill a single skulk without a pack of 4 marines, and force everyone to stop scripting because they can't face the fact that they just flat out suck and refuse to come to reality and realize scripting doesn't increase a person's skill... Marvel over the length of this post which has so gracefully been granted by the use of quotes. Turn this thread into a flame war and start a riot... All the cool kids are doing it
I prefer longer games. Man, back in 2.01, when the 'rines one a game, everyone felt like they had ACCOMPLISHED something. The comm would actually sit back in his chair, take a deep breath, and congratulate everyone on a game well done. God, those were good times. Nothing to be done about it I suppose.
I think it is obvious, Forlorn, by the way people are speaking that they are not wanting longer games as such, just games that are more RTS like and contain swings of power. These, however, only come with "long" games.
<!--QuoteBegin-niaccurshi+Sep 15 2004, 07:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (niaccurshi @ Sep 15 2004, 07:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think it is obvious, Forlorn, by the way people are speaking that they are not wanting longer games as such, just games that are more RTS like and contain swings of power. These, however, only come with "long" games. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> sorry but that's not more RTS like, good RTS's like starcraft and war3 you have the weaker side get annilhated in under 3 minutes by a good oppinent.
And by annilihated i Mean, D-E-S-T-R-O-Y-E-D, completely and utterly, owned so hard you won't ever want to play the game again. And yet, remember Starcraft is one of the worlds most popular online competetive games.
Yes, which is what I'm saying. YOU are assuming people are voting for longer games regardless of anything, but if you asked them they would never say they want games to be 40-50 minutes even if one side was clearly better.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Sep 16 2004, 12:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 16 2004, 12:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-niaccurshi+Sep 15 2004, 07:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (niaccurshi @ Sep 15 2004, 07:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think it is obvious, Forlorn, by the way people are speaking that they are not wanting longer games as such, just games that are more RTS like and contain swings of power. These, however, only come with "long" games. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> sorry but that's not more RTS like, good RTS's like starcraft and war3 you have the weaker side get annilhated in under 3 minutes by a good oppinent.
And by annilihated i Mean, D-E-S-T-R-O-Y-E-D, completely and utterly, owned so hard you won't ever want to play the game again. And yet, remember Starcraft is one of the worlds most popular online competetive games. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i think flayra made a definite wrong turn by shortening the game. frankly, i dont give a damn about clans. they make up so little of the players that they are irrelevant. i think flayra comprimised fun for popularity. he tried to make it more popular by making the game shorter and trying to appeal to clans. NS will NOT be remembered for version 3. everyone will always talk about version 1 and 2 as proved by this thread. NS has lost its appeal. i still play it, but not the normal maps anymore. after playing a normal map, it feels like i have just wasted my time. i didnt have fun. i didnt get excited. i just kinda go along till the eventual defeat which is pretty much known in the first few minutes of the game. the game has become so predictable. i just play co and siege maps.
<!--QuoteBegin-kabab+Sep 15 2004, 09:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabab @ Sep 15 2004, 09:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ns is no where near as dynamic is it used to be, the game plays itself out the same way over and over again.
In large games the game is decided in the first 3min the rest of the game the aliens just wait to die..
In clan games if the marines don't kill 2 nodes in under 2min they die.
Its so freakin borring now.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't know what games you play but my clan games are tons of fun and highly dynamic.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i think flayra made a definite wrong turn by shortening the game. frankly, i dont give a damn about clans. they make up so little of the players that they are irrelevant. i think flayra comprimised fun for popularity. he tried to make it more popular by making the game shorter and trying to appeal to clans. NS will NOT be remembered for version 3. everyone will always talk about version 1 and 2 as proved by this thread. NS has lost its appeal. i still play it, but not the normal maps anymore. after playing a normal map, it feels like i have just wasted my time. i didnt have fun. i didnt get excited. i just kinda go along till the eventual defeat which is pretty much known in the first few minutes of the game. the game has become so predictable. i just play co and siege maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude shortening the game wasn't about the clans, it was about all NSPlayers. Not only that, starcraft is balanced around clanplay, but look where that got it...
I was once a fan of long horribly drawn out games in 1.04 as a new player, which has changed as I became a competitive player
games that are fun, exciting, action packed, and push skill are good games. it isn't relevant if the game is long or short, it just doesn't matter
for example, a long game is great if the teams are both even and are working together towards a common goal..
on the otherhand..
stalemates, probably the leading cause of "long games", are often the result of a largo, confused, and dumb marine team, with a commander that turret farmed two hives with a bunch of players that try desperately to keep their structures welded.
the marines make no attempt at pushing on the aliens because the aliens spammed offensive chambers everywhere on the map because they control all of the res
finally, the aliens who were all angry at eachother for losing their second hive, get an onos and three fades and a bunch of gorges who actually begin to collaborate and work with one another destroy the turret farms, put up two hives, get all of their chambers, and then get five onos and win..
everyone on the alien team goes "wow what an epic game"
a veteran on the other hand is infuriated about the events that led up to the stalemate and deems the game a long boring needlessly drawn out game
am I right?
how is the length of the game relevant at all when the real situation at hand is how the game was played out
Because it's the constant back-and-forth that's the fun part. No, if it's just a long drawn out stalemate where the aliens just keep knocking back HA rushes out of a turtled base they can't crack, it gets boring real quick. But losing hives, gaining hives, losing double, taking it back, etc etc IS fun, and that's what we mean by "long games".
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Sep 15 2004, 10:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 15 2004, 10:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kabab+Sep 15 2004, 09:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabab @ Sep 15 2004, 09:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ns is no where near as dynamic is it used to be, the game plays itself out the same way over and over again.
In large games the game is decided in the first 3min the rest of the game the aliens just wait to die..
In clan games if the marines don't kill 2 nodes in under 2min they die.
Its so freakin borring now.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't know what games you play but my clan games are tons of fun and highly dynamic.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i think flayra made a definite wrong turn by shortening the game. frankly, i dont give a damn about clans. they make up so little of the players that they are irrelevant. i think flayra comprimised fun for popularity. he tried to make it more popular by making the game shorter and trying to appeal to clans. NS will NOT be remembered for version 3. everyone will always talk about version 1 and 2 as proved by this thread. NS has lost its appeal. i still play it, but not the normal maps anymore. after playing a normal map, it feels like i have just wasted my time. i didnt have fun. i didnt get excited. i just kinda go along till the eventual defeat which is pretty much known in the first few minutes of the game. the game has become so predictable. i just play co and siege maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude shortening the game wasn't about the clans, it was about all NSPlayers. Not only that, starcraft is balanced around clanplay, but look where that got it... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Perhaps we play different here but thats been my experince in clan matches...
But clan matches shouldn't really matter they only represent a small percentage of the player base.
Make the game fun for the casual / pub players and more people will start playing and the clan scene will expand its not going to work the other way around.
BTW. I choose cool as it is now. 1hr games is too much of a commitment! 30min or less please!
Though the last 1hr game I played was fun. Very dynamic! Violent back and fourth power swings by both sides many times. But by minute 45 I was begging for aliens to kill us or the com to get out so I can lead a proper offensive.
My decision is neither of those choises, as I feel that both short and long games have the potential to be equally balanced. Perhaps a more objective set of poll choises was needed.
What we are striving for aren't games where you are begging to die because the other party is stalling to kill the hive/cc....
Why are you begging to die? Because you don't have even a little chance for a comeback.
We want longer games where you have a chance to turn the game against your enemy.. even if he is right in front of your hive.
For example:
When an alien managed to kill the armory in 1.0x it was kind of a desaster because you really had to save hard for it and protect the base at all times. Now its like 'oh the armory went down.. lets build a new one in 10 secs'
Things like that have been a total turnaround in the game and you wouldnt have to sit in your hive waiting for the marines to finish off but go into offensive and kick their ****.
That is what i mean with 'longer games with a comeback possibility'. Now its 'oh,, they have HA... gg f4' because there is little to none chance to tear down the enemy if he is not too dumb.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rick_Deckard+Sep 16 2004, 01:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rick_Deckard @ Sep 16 2004, 01:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why are you begging to die? Because you don't have even a little chance for a comeback. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I was beggin to die because the game was so freaking crazy!! 1 minute we control data, seiging arch have 5 RTs the next we are facing hive 3 aliens at hive 3 & down to our last 2 RTs. It was like checkers for 58 minutes!
Aliens have hive 1 Aliens have hive 2 Rines have hive 3 Rines seiged hive 1 Aliens took hive 3 Rines seiged hive 2 Aliens took hive 1 Rines HMG rush hive 3 Aliens kill HMG rushers Aliens take hive 2 Marines seige hive 1 & 2 Aliens take hive 2 back Both sides sit for a while, coffee gets served at hera reception. Aliens & rines compliment each other on their achivements. Onos finishes all the cookies. Rines take hive 2 Rines take hive 3 Rines take hive 4
Rines realise how aliens came back so many times, they have 4 hives! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Sep 16 2004, 02:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 16 2004, 02:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And by annilihated i Mean, D-E-S-T-R-O-Y-E-D, completely and utterly, owned so hard you won't ever want to play the game again. And yet, remember Starcraft is one of the worlds most popular online competetive games. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah i remeber this happend to me once in a while <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
both games, long and short can be bad and good it all depends on WHY that particular game is so long. If there were long games for the right reasons consistently NS would be unbeatably popular (in my opinion.)
It is asking alot to be able to control the game in that way, balance changes can never really control the game conditions. it all boils down to the people you play with. which we cant control <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Zunni is <b>not</b> the new teamleader. He's responsible for PR and took it upon himself to primarily manage I&S, nothing more, nothing less. Flayra is still responsible for all design decisions.
Comments
Longer != fun, Balanced = fun
You'll just have to sit around longer in a game that you know the outcome to already.
Let's face it, your chance of comeback is pretty small if you can't kill anyone.
Not moving forever around a marine base cramped in a hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. Let's get Zunni to say:
"Ok I see you want longer games, but how should we go about doing that."
Then we can finally debate on how which is the fun part.
but combacks very often just plain boring, because your very slight chances...
also we should define what long means <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
for me its between 30 and 60 minutes
By comebacks I assume you mean powershifts, where the terriotry does not have strong lines, but a dynamic changing contour.
PS: my opinion on turrets is more damaging (or same damage and faster rate of fire) but half health points, model need to be changed to something that looks more like a parking meter bolted to the floor. (why they can't get knocked over)
The biggest challenge is getting this to work irrelevant of the server size. Whether it's 4 max players or 100 max players. Obviously the larger the player numbers, the more of a strong defense there is going to be, smaller games will always be fairly dynamic in the territory contolled.
PLEASE read the original thread too.
There were many interesting suggestions and the subject has been discussed there deeply and without flames.
Yes.. a long game is 60 minutes and longer for me... it doesnt have be an epic game always but the normal average game should be IMHO at least like 60-90 minutes (and not 20 minutes like it is now).
then everyone can say what they think is good, then they collect all the data, average it out, and just repost it. then we can have a "changelog" of what the next beta WOULD look like if we went ahead with it. then we can discuss what the good points and the bad points of it are.
holy crap, i thought 2 days was long... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I doubt a week long game really happened. Either it didnt happen, or he was playing on a server that absolutely owns everything on the market. NS 1.0x takes a heavy toll on the server. Long games hurt it even more (remember, it still keeps track of structures that were destroyed). From what I remember, its rare to find a server that can take an NS game that goes beyond 5hrs+ before crashing. One week is impossible.
The long games really pawned. Being able to constantly fight and have action all over the map was great. I found that the bigger serversseem to do this the best. The longest i have ever played was on ns_nothing and one of the seige maps, cant remeber which. Nothing was thelongest though at about 5 1/2 hours. By then everyone was lagging so much though it was almost impossible to play. I started with a ping of about 35-45 and ended with one around 500-600. Pain in the arse but oh well.
My word on this really is that combat was designed for a quick game. Go in, dont need to know any strats and just shoot things. Simple, quick and easy. NS on the otherhand i eleive should be almost the total opposite, a hard, long and complex game involving proper strategy. Combat is sorta the training arena for NS, and so NS needs to move further away from combat in terms of gameplay.
That is your opinion which I respect, but I have a right to disagree. Especially when you start to BS others...
First, pehaps I have played many more games than you in the older versions, but I don't like quick CS style rounds even if the so-called "brat clans" like them.
I myself have made numerous comebacks in 1.0 and 2.0 both marine and alien. So you are quite incorrect on that one mate and no I'm not kidding. Perhaps you have always played with less intelligent people?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is no reason a game should last between 30 minutes and an hour and a half if this is not going on...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why? I agree that a grid lock might be boring if you aren't trying. (which makes me want to jump to the conclusion that you are one of those lazy marines everyone hates) But when the battle get's to be a raging intense firefight with rapid exchange of territory and not clear victor in sight then yes, to me and other I have met, think this is fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not everyone has the time nor the patience to sit in a game for an hour<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok... Laf, then don't play NS n00b. Adios
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only map these "wars" took place were on ns_nothing... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
um no... I have had many an "epic war" with my British friends on the ol' Team Fun's Alergic Reaction server on WON on serveral maps. ns_tanith and ns_hera propably had more.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And that was simply because of the map's structure and the fact that neither team could ever finish off the others.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it was balanced and everyone (except you obviously) was trying their hardest.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Very seldomly will a game that goes beyond the 30 minute mark actually be fun for 3/4 of the people in that server.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey punk! Don't make up numbers. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Actually the poll is proving exactly the opposite. There is a clear difference between making an opinion and BS the public with false info and you just crossed it buddy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-agentx5+Sep 14 2004, 05:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (agentx5 @ Sep 14 2004, 05:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Harmondo+Sep 14 2004, 05:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harmondo @ Sep 14 2004, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> oh please... anyone who thinks they're going to make a comeback are kidding themselves. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is your opinion which I respect, but I have a right to disagree. Especially when you start to BS others...
First, pehaps I have played many more games than you in the older versions, but I don't like quick CS style rounds even if the so-called "brat clans" like them.
I myself have made numerous comebacks in 1.0 and 2.0 both marine and alien. So you are quite incorrect on that one mate and no I'm not kidding. Perhaps you have always played with less intelligent people?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is no reason a game should last between 30 minutes and an hour and a half if this is not going on...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why? I agree that a grid lock might be boring if you aren't trying. (which makes me want to jump to the conclusion that you are one of those lazy marines everyone hates) But when the battle get's to be a raging intense firefight with rapid exchange of territory and not clear victor in sight then yes, to me and other I have met, think this is fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not everyone has the time nor the patience to sit in a game for an hour<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok... Laf, then don't play NS n00b. Adios
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only map these "wars" took place were on ns_nothing... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
um no... I have had many an "epic war" with my British friends on the ol' Team Fun's Alergic Reaction server on WON on serveral maps. ns_tanith and ns_hera propably had more.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And that was simply because of the map's structure and the fact that neither team could ever finish off the others.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it was balanced and everyone (except you obviously) was trying their hardest.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Very seldomly will a game that goes beyond the 30 minute mark actually be fun for 3/4 of the people in that server.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey punk! Don't make up numbers. Actually the poll is proving exactly the opposite. There is a clear difference between making an opinion and BS the public with false info and you just crossed it buddy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Congratulations... you have managed to pick my entire thread apart to find <i>such obvious</i> discrepancies.
Allow me to waste my time doing the same...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->First, pehaps I have played many more games than you in the older versions, but I don't like quick CS style rounds even if the so-called "brat clans" like them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I doubt it.
And brat clans... what a joke. Yes that's right, every competitive gamer that doesn't like 3 hours games is a brat clanner. Hit the nail right on the head there.
FYI CS rounds last all of 2 minutes, not 20-30.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I myself have made numerous comebacks in 1.0 and 2.0 both marine and alien.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By numerous you speak of at most 1 in 10. There may be small comebacks midpoint in rounds... but not after a 30 or 40 minute mark. It just didn't/doesn't happen.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Perhaps you have always played with less intelligent people?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, again you're right. I choose to surround myself with idiots... as apposed to the genius' that make up the pubbing scene.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why? I agree that a grid lock might be boring if you aren't trying. (which makes me want to jump to the conclusion that you are one of those lazy marines everyone hates) But when the battle get's to be a raging intense firefight with rapid exchange of territory and not clear victor in sight then yes, to me and other I have met, think this is fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damn... you're just awesome at this guessing game. I'm lazy <b>AND</b> sarcastic... Who woulda thought?
So these 'intense firefight's with rapage exchange of territory...' -- they must have been really something huh. With 600 pings all around and one team being locked down to 1/4 the map while the other tries to stomp them out like a lit match in a field of fire. Maybe my memory is going as well... but I just can't seem to remember those oh so exciting games going.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok... Laf, then don't play NS n00b. Adios <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Need I say anything...?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->um no... I have had many an "epic war" with my British friends on the ol' Team Fun's Alergic Reaction server on WON on serveral maps. ns_tanith and ns_hera propably had more.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since when was a war even on hera or tanith. The only good battles on hera were at holo room, which wasn't even a war as much as a stakes race to get there first, and at ms where aliens couldn't finish the round because of the structure of ms.
Same goes for tanith.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And that was simply because of the map's structure and the fact that neither team could ever finish off the others.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it was balanced and everyone (except you obviously) was trying their hardest.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh that's right... ns_nothing is balanced. hah Damn, right over my head on that one.
Would that balance entail the insta jp/hmg rushes to the hives to slaughter them in seconds or the rush for a rr siege or the three res nodes in cargo hive alone?
I think your memory deceives you,
<i>mate</i>...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hey punk! Don't make up numbers. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Actually the poll is proving exactly the opposite. There is a clear difference between making an opinion and BS the public with false info and you just crossed it buddy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right... it was probably more like 3/5ths, my bad. This poll's a complete **** fest as stated by so many people. It's biased beyond belief. It is, as forlorn has stated as well, is made up of all pubbers posting how much they love these long games but don't know how to accomplish is short of just completely reverting back to 1.04. These are the same people who think we should nerf the jetpack because they don't know how to use leap, add spawn invul because they can't kill a single skulk without a pack of 4 marines, and force everyone to stop scripting because they can't face the fact that they just flat out suck and refuse to come to reality and realize scripting doesn't increase a person's skill...
Marvel over the length of this post which has so gracefully been granted by the use of quotes.
Turn this thread into a flame war and start a riot... All the cool kids are doing it
sorry but that's not more RTS like, good RTS's like starcraft and war3 you have the weaker side get annilhated in under 3 minutes by a good oppinent.
And by annilihated i Mean, D-E-S-T-R-O-Y-E-D, completely and utterly, owned so hard you won't ever want to play the game again. And yet, remember Starcraft is one of the worlds most popular online competetive games.
sorry but that's not more RTS like, good RTS's like starcraft and war3 you have the weaker side get annilhated in under 3 minutes by a good oppinent.
And by annilihated i Mean, D-E-S-T-R-O-Y-E-D, completely and utterly, owned so hard you won't ever want to play the game again. And yet, remember Starcraft is one of the worlds most popular online competetive games. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think flayra made a definite wrong turn by shortening the game. frankly, i dont give a damn about clans. they make up so little of the players that they are irrelevant. i think flayra comprimised fun for popularity. he tried to make it more popular by making the game shorter and trying to appeal to clans. NS will NOT be remembered for version 3. everyone will always talk about version 1 and 2 as proved by this thread. NS has lost its appeal. i still play it, but not the normal maps anymore. after playing a normal map, it feels like i have just wasted my time. i didnt have fun. i didnt get excited. i just kinda go along till the eventual defeat which is pretty much known in the first few minutes of the game. the game has become so predictable. i just play co and siege maps.
In large games the game is decided in the first 3min the rest of the game the aliens just wait to die..
In clan games if the marines don't kill 2 nodes in under 2min they die.
Its so freakin borring now..
In large games the game is decided in the first 3min the rest of the game the aliens just wait to die..
In clan games if the marines don't kill 2 nodes in under 2min they die.
Its so freakin borring now.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't know what games you play but my clan games are tons of fun and highly dynamic.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i think flayra made a definite wrong turn by shortening the game. frankly, i dont give a damn about clans. they make up so little of the players that they are irrelevant. i think flayra comprimised fun for popularity. he tried to make it more popular by making the game shorter and trying to appeal to clans. NS will NOT be remembered for version 3. everyone will always talk about version 1 and 2 as proved by this thread. NS has lost its appeal. i still play it, but not the normal maps anymore. after playing a normal map, it feels like i have just wasted my time. i didnt have fun. i didnt get excited. i just kinda go along till the eventual defeat which is pretty much known in the first few minutes of the game. the game has become so predictable. i just play co and siege maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude shortening the game wasn't about the clans, it was about all NSPlayers. Not only that, starcraft is balanced around clanplay, but look where that got it...
games that are fun, exciting, action packed, and push skill are good games. it isn't relevant if the game is long or short, it just doesn't matter
for example, a long game is great if the teams are both even and are working together towards a common goal..
on the otherhand..
stalemates, probably the leading cause of "long games", are often the result of a largo, confused, and dumb marine team, with a commander that turret farmed two hives with a bunch of players that try desperately to keep their structures welded.
the marines make no attempt at pushing on the aliens because the aliens spammed offensive chambers everywhere on the map because they control all of the res
finally, the aliens who were all angry at eachother for losing their second hive, get an onos and three fades and a bunch of gorges who actually begin to collaborate and work with one another destroy the turret farms, put up two hives, get all of their chambers, and then get five onos and win..
everyone on the alien team goes "wow what an epic game"
a veteran on the other hand is infuriated about the events that led up to the stalemate and deems the game a long boring needlessly drawn out game
am I right?
how is the length of the game relevant at all when the real situation at hand is how the game was played out
In large games the game is decided in the first 3min the rest of the game the aliens just wait to die..
In clan games if the marines don't kill 2 nodes in under 2min they die.
Its so freakin borring now.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't know what games you play but my clan games are tons of fun and highly dynamic.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i think flayra made a definite wrong turn by shortening the game. frankly, i dont give a damn about clans. they make up so little of the players that they are irrelevant. i think flayra comprimised fun for popularity. he tried to make it more popular by making the game shorter and trying to appeal to clans. NS will NOT be remembered for version 3. everyone will always talk about version 1 and 2 as proved by this thread. NS has lost its appeal. i still play it, but not the normal maps anymore. after playing a normal map, it feels like i have just wasted my time. i didnt have fun. i didnt get excited. i just kinda go along till the eventual defeat which is pretty much known in the first few minutes of the game. the game has become so predictable. i just play co and siege maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude shortening the game wasn't about the clans, it was about all NSPlayers. Not only that, starcraft is balanced around clanplay, but look where that got it... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps we play different here but thats been my experince in clan matches...
But clan matches shouldn't really matter they only represent a small percentage of the player base.
Make the game fun for the casual / pub players and more people will start playing and the clan scene will expand its not going to work the other way around.
BTW. I choose cool as it is now. 1hr games is too much of a commitment! 30min or less please!
Though the last 1hr game I played was fun. Very dynamic! Violent back and fourth power swings by both sides many times. But by minute 45 I was begging for aliens to kill us or the com to get out so I can lead a proper offensive.
Rundown of that game.
8vs8 ns_hera 58:04 Game time. Hives destroyed 8 (Good gawd!). Adv Armories destroyed 2. PGs destroyed 3 Local, 6 field.
8 Alien Novices?
- A++ gorges (OC placement, RT capage)
- B+ Fading
- B+ Onosing
- Skulks A-
- 0 lerks
5 Rine Novices, 1 Vet , 2 bewbies
- B Comming (Lax Response, Vague Attack Plan)
- B RT Re-Capping (Led by me)
- B+ Marine Combat (Led by me)
- B+ Marines Following Orders (Given by me)
- 2 Rambos, 0 Jet Packs
So many emotions, OMG!!11!! <--Head explodes.
Good times. Good times.
@Rick_Deckard (I should have voted the other way)
What we are striving for aren't games where you are begging to die because the other party is stalling to kill the hive/cc....
Why are you begging to die? Because you don't have even a little chance for a comeback.
We want longer games where you have a chance to turn the game against your enemy.. even if he is right in front of your hive.
For example:
When an alien managed to kill the armory in 1.0x it was kind of a desaster because you really had to save hard for it and protect the base at all times. Now its like 'oh the armory went down.. lets build a new one in 10 secs'
Things like that have been a total turnaround in the game and you wouldnt have to sit in your hive waiting for the marines to finish off but go into offensive and kick their ****.
That is what i mean with 'longer games with a comeback possibility'.
Now its 'oh,, they have HA... gg f4'
because there is little to none chance to tear down the enemy if he is not too dumb.
Play well
Rick
I was beggin to die because the game was so freaking crazy!! 1 minute we control data, seiging arch have 5 RTs the next we are facing hive 3 aliens at hive 3 & down to our last 2 RTs. It was like checkers for 58 minutes!
Aliens have hive 1
Aliens have hive 2
Rines have hive 3
Rines seiged hive 1
Aliens took hive 3
Rines seiged hive 2
Aliens took hive 1
Rines HMG rush hive 3
Aliens kill HMG rushers
Aliens take hive 2
Marines seige hive 1 & 2
Aliens take hive 2 back
Both sides sit for a while, coffee gets served at hera reception. Aliens & rines compliment each other on their achivements.
Onos finishes all the cookies.
Rines take hive 2
Rines take hive 3
Rines take hive 4
Rines realise how aliens came back so many times, they have 4 hives! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:2pt;line-height:100%'>gather a bunch of people and F4.</span></span>
yeah i remeber this happend to me once in a while <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It is asking alot to be able to control the game in that way, balance changes can never really control the game conditions. it all boils down to the people you play with. which we cant control <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Zunni is <b>not</b> the new teamleader. He's responsible for PR and took it upon himself to primarily manage I&S, nothing more, nothing less. Flayra is still responsible for all design decisions.