Oc Buffs
GunFodder
Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26572Members
Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26572Members
Some suggestion of ways to improve OCs. Give OCs passive chamber abilities as chambers are built.
If you have DC, then the OC has additional armor or a higher regen rate. If you have MC, the chamber fires faster projectiles at a higher rate. If you have sense, the chamber can do extra damage or parastie with its attacks.
Also, boost def. and dmg. for OCs as hive count increases. If marine turrents get upgrades, it's only fair.
Oh...and edit the way OC building works. Do not allow OC to be dropped on other OCs and don't allow other chambers to be dropped on OCs, to prevent noobs from wasting even more res on chambers that won't fire.
If you have DC, then the OC has additional armor or a higher regen rate. If you have MC, the chamber fires faster projectiles at a higher rate. If you have sense, the chamber can do extra damage or parastie with its attacks.
Also, boost def. and dmg. for OCs as hive count increases. If marine turrents get upgrades, it's only fair.
Oh...and edit the way OC building works. Do not allow OC to be dropped on other OCs and don't allow other chambers to be dropped on OCs, to prevent noobs from wasting even more res on chambers that won't fire.
Comments
All OCs need is the Cost lowered to 5, and a small amount of armor given (So they improve with the number of hives you have)
The cost of OC's should definately be lowered, but maybe the cost of the other chambers should lower/raise from 8 to 10 or 10 to 8, depending on the amount of hives.
- Lower gorge cost to 5
- Lower starting res to 20
- Lower lerk cost to 25
Gorges are pathetic fatties. They run slow, have pitiful attacks, and will most likely die to a single marine who spots him. The first 2 statements of the SOLUTION still allow a res tower to be made when the game initially starts. However, if you gorge and someone HAPPENS to find you in an egg, the penalty is less painful. For people who say EGG IN SAFE PLACES, well people make mistakes, that's all I can say. It would still take you the same time as beta 4a NS gorge costs as this system to get a hive, so balance would be same.
Now I compare gorge to a welder. Welders are easy to carry, press weapon 4 and wham it's there. Not only that, but when someone dies, it can still be picked up. A gorge however, is similar to the function of the welder, and it also heals hit points. The catch is that it removes an ENTIRE player from the battle lines where you could prevent marines from advancing further. Not only that, but at the times where it is not building or not healing, it is basically doing nothing and doing nothing is a not a way to help your team the best you can. A marine however, can switch weapons on the fly and is a fighter and healer all in one. Lowering the gorge cost to 5 makes gorge more practical to use and less painful when dying. It still plays the same way as beta4a NS, and makes OCs a bit cheaper when you need to get them down.
Ocs are fine as they are. Place a gorge next to it and it can take plenty of pain. Sure the OCs can be hit without shooting back at the rine, but that is why alien players need to use OCs in masses and use the ability to place OCs in strategic positions.
Now the lerk. This class needs to be played a bit more by players. It is a complicated class since people are more used to being straight into action with skulks fades and onos. Lerks are the humble class. They spore NOT to kill, but to weaken. Then when you team faces the rines, it will be easier for them. I believe the cost should be 25 because of several reason. For one thing, lerks are a difficult form to play and 25 res should help newby lerkers as well as intermediate. Second I believe the lerk WAS supposed to cost 25 since onos is 75 and fade is 50 so 25 should come next... BUT since NS beta4a gives alien players the starting res of 25... I bet you know what I'm saying. Think about it, more spores making rines easier to kill... More umbra to help that quick getaway or a strong push... Primal scream to uh... get that obs down faster disabling beacons... It should DEFINITELY encourage more lerking, which is a good thing.
And when they aren't holed up?
That doesn't do much for OCs though. 10 res is way too much for the Gorge as long as permagorging is so ineffective in any game with more than 5 or 6 people to a team. Aliens are very reliant on temp-gorging because of their res system, but it's exceedingly expensive. I think OCs are strong enough as they are, but their res efficiency needs to be worked out to make them more useful. What if their cost was dropped to 5-7 but the maximum OCs per area reduced to 4? Real walls of lame are more effective than they need to be, and small numbers of OCs are too expensive early in the game for the function they serve.
I think I have it.
Make the RFK for aliens transfer instead of to the killer, but to the next player waiting in line for a res from res towers. If you are a fixed alien form (perma lerk, fade, onos), I believe that your extra res should benefit the lower forms because you certainly are not gonna change forms and that extra res would help gorges build more things and skulks change forms.
Exactly. Thumbs up. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Its ment to be the equivilent to the marines turent, but marines have these things called phasegates and welders. aliens have to get to where the oc's are under attack, sometimes otherside of the map, marines can just phase in. to heal them aliens need to go gorge and lose all fighting capacity, while the welder for marine doesn't impact your fighting ability.
One thing to do is to have its spikes slow marines down when its hits them, like if they steped on a caltrop in tfc. Thus the role is more changed to surporting the aliens defending the area, rather then defending the area on its own...
Another idea if to get rid of it and make an observation tower. these would be cloaked structures that would make any marine in its area appear to be parasited on hive site.
No, it will result in OCs getting more used a bit like 1.04 :>
what we will have is effective defence earlyer in the game. this is good because it will slow marine expansion and alow the hive/rts to be defended. this will give the kharra much needed breathing room and make them able to get to a rt/hive in time to defend it.
If you have 8 turrets in a square formation in a room...
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A fade walks in the door. All 8 turrets immediately will begin firing upon the Fade. The turret behind the turret factory may not be able to hit the fade, but the other 7 sure will.
Now pretend they're OCs and a marine walks in the door.
The front 3 OCs will be able to hit the marine. The other 5 probably won't, and will fire anyway, ACTUALLY CAUSING DAMAGE TO THE OCS IN FRONT.
I use this to my advantage a lot - got a line of OCs? Stand at the end and they'll all shoot each other trying to hit you.
No, it will result in OCs getting more used a bit like 1.04 :> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OCS costing 5 res... that will mean at the start of the game, each alien can drop 3 Ocs... let's say this is a balanced 6v6. That would result to 18 OCs per the entire team! I hardly think this is fair. Not only that, but if you are smart and place OCs in tactical spots (roofs, etc.), it will make it EVEN harder. Marines can't just siege everywhere, that costs res. A minor adjustment however might work.
What you will have after 18 OCs are dropped: 6 gorges with 0 res. No skulks to defend. ONE RT!!!! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> 15 minutes later: "Ok, I've ALMOST got enough for the hive!"
sheesh... that was almost as bad as people saying a "giveres" onos rush would "Pwnxors the rinexors". Laughable at best.
I personally am a fan of getting rid of the gorge and having an alien commander in the hive.
What you will have after 18 OCs are dropped: 6 gorges with 0 res. No skulks to defend. ONE RT!!!! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> 15 minutes later: "Ok, I've ALMOST got enough for the hive!" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is, every team would not go gorge and drop OCs. Some games, you could have 12 Ocs and 3 res towers, still is effective.
The fact is Ocs are weak as SINGLE buildings in a field. But when you have masses of them, they become astronomically powerful (not to mention if you have gorges, they become invincible).
Massing Ocs allows more shots to be fired which in turn kills the marine faster BEFORE it can jump over and kill the gorge which is healing the Ocs. It also allows the lessening of focus fire, since some marines might fire at one on the left, while another fires the Oc to his right. Again, gorges + many Ocs + defense chambers is almost invincible...
That is unless you get siege. Siege however, is costly, time-consuming, and leaves marines vulnerable. When you are done sieging, most of the sieges are a waste of res after that...
GLs take a while to research to and hand grenades are nulled by healspray.
This maybe a bad example, but play a 4v4 game. The res will be fast for aliens, but if they only make OCs, the marines will have a very difficult time going to places. Ocs still cost 10, however if they costed 5, it would be horrendous.
Turrets have weaknesses. They require a turret factory which also shuts them down, can only be repaired with a welder (which few rines actually take time to repair), and are individually weak. They are bound to the area which the marine can go to which is usually on the ground.
Ocs have huge hitboxes which allows them to be sniped, needs gorges to build them and are easy to take down as a single.
Ocs in masses however is incredibly powerful. It can keep waves of marines at bay. Not only can dcs get Ocs repaired, but gorges can keep Ocs alive a long time (multiple gorges will keep those Ocs forever). Sometimes you might need siege to break a well made Oc nest.
Ocs can be positioned to advantageous spots unlike turrets. They also have a better chance of staying alive thanks to gorges and defense chambers.
18 Ocs is not an easy thing to step over you are dead wrong. You are basically saying a 6-man marine team (minus 1 for the commander), that each single marine can take 3 Ocs by himself in an instant? Wrong my friend wrong. You are saying that skulks will sit around while marines waste their ammo on Ocs? Wrong again. 18 Ocs with gorges healing them plus skulks vs 5 marines is not an even figure. What game have you been playing CS?
Massive early-game OC farms are costly, time-consuming, and leave the aliens vulnerable. When your OCs are all annihilated by sieges(which are recycled afterwards), all of your starting res has been wasted and the ENTIRE TEAM has to come back from 0 res all at once, with only one res node. You can't even drop a single chamber until someone gets 20 res, with one res node split six ways. You can't get a Hive or Fade until someone gets 50. You'll probably be slaughtered by the marines before you even have the res for a node, not that it would matter since they can lock down the map with no opposition anyway.
Wow, do you really think the alien team with skulks will just let them walk into the hive... Sigh...
As much as I admire your time and effort in writing this paragraph of words... I'm gonna step up and stop this hypothesizing nonsense.
If you think 5 marines can take on 12 or so OCS so be it, GOOD FOR YOU. Some changes like making OCs 5 res weren't put in for a reason.
So end this arguement over a theory, it really does not make sense.
marines > skulks. moreso if marines are upgraded, skulks aren't.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you think 5 marines can take on 12 or so OCS so be it, GOOD FOR YOU. Some changes like making OCs 5 res weren't put in for a reason. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
8 oc is maximum per area. but thats not my point. my point is that oc's are QUITE destroyable. siege, shotties, gl's... oc's are only worth something if they are strategically placed and defended with lerks, skulks, and gorges. even then they are easy bait to sieges, because sieging is so cheap and effective.
if oc's are placed well, however, they are very effective. but not as effective as a few fades. thats why they are not used, they are too expensive.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This maybe a bad example, but play a 4v4 game. The res will be fast for aliens, but if they only make OCs, the marines will have a very difficult time going to places. Ocs still cost 10, however if they costed 5, it would be horrendous.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if u KNOW it's a bad example then why post it? you are asking for flames by posting ridiculous examples like that. we know aliens are overpowered in < 6vs6 games.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->18 Ocs is not an easy thing to step over you are dead wrong. You are basically saying a 6-man marine team (minus 1 for the commander), that each single marine can take 3 Ocs by himself in an instant? Wrong my friend wrong. You are saying that skulks will sit around while marines waste their ammo on Ocs? Wrong again. 18 Ocs with gorges healing them plus skulks vs 5 marines is not an even figure. What game have you been playing CS?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well. 18 oc's, huh? as i said the maximum per area is eight. now. the oc's are in 1 single room. ns maps are big enough that such rooms can be bypassed _usually_. if its not possible, well... then siege it out. they have skulks? woo-freaking-hoo, big deal. marines have shotties, hmg's and mines. u know next time you comm, try not to waste 100 res on turrets in ms and you will notice that it's quite possible to have lvl2 hmg's about the same time as they have fades.
now that you have sieged those 8 oc's out of your way, and the alien spawnqueu is full, simply scan the hive room, and if theres oc's there too.... well, siege it out, and maybe deal a few ha kits while your at it. because if aliens had 3 rt's... that means you have 5 or 6.
Since you're so "all-knowing" perhaps you can enlighten us on this topic so we can move on so to speak.
Also... I looked into using the "unchaining Chambers" pluging to lower the res cost of OCs... i guess it cant be done using that.
and what exactly is being implemented to address this?
Basically, it requires a very good alien team to win a clan game as aliens. On the other hand, it requires a marine team capable of basic shooting and following orders to win as marines.