What I expect is some sort of welder esq upgrade that a marine wears like HA or a jetpack so that they turn into a giant welder. This giant welder can weld everyone within a 20 foot radius so it'll be good to have one in a group of attacking marines. I'm not sure whether the welder person will have legs yet or will just be a floating welder.
<!--QuoteBegin-Red Squirrel+Jun 14 2004, 06:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Red Squirrel @ Jun 14 2004, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm not sure whether the welder person will have legs yet or will just be a floating welder. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OMG!! TEH WELDER hoverS!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
To show my support, I am re-listing already mentioned ideas to my changelog.
- Alien res towers now silent. Thanks forlorn! - Gorge now cost 0 res. Alien starting res lowered to 15. Thanks travelyn! - Onos third hive abilty revamped to shorten endgames. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70064&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a> - Fade gets new 3rd hive abilty. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32020&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a> - Scent of fear replaced with awareness. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69893&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a> - Alien gorges now have ability to move structures! <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70345&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a> - CC blocking no longer possible <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69588&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a> - MT now restricted to new extened range of observatory. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69667&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a> - Marine sidestep penalized to half the penalty of backpedal. - Marine knife damage vs lifeforms lowered to 10. - Alien structures now heal themselves slowly without dcs. - Movement chambers now cycles. - Marine RFK now scales on the lifeform killed. - Skulk de-evolve cost lowered to 0. - Knockback lowered. - New sticky skulks.
Maps that need work - ns_hera map double node proximity to ms - ns_agora total overhaul or removal - ns_nothing powersilo hive overhaul / remove elvators - ns_eclipse marine spawn rework -20 minute endgames!??!! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> - co_angst map rework - co_core? map removal
<!--QuoteBegin-TankBuster+Jun 15 2004, 07:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TankBuster @ Jun 15 2004, 07:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To show my support, I am re-listing already mentioned ideas to my changelog.
- Alien res towers now silent. Thanks forlorn! - Gorge now cost 0 res. Alien starting res lowered to 15. Thanks travelyn! - Onos third hive abilty revamped to shorten endgames. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70064&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a> - Fade gets new 3rd hive abilty. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32020&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a> - Scent of fear replaced with awareness. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69893&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a> - Alien gorges now have ability to move structures! <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70345&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a> - CC blocking no longer possible <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69588&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a> - MT now restricted to new extened range of observatory. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69667&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a> - Marine sidestep penalized to half the penalty of backpedal. - Marine knife damage vs lifeforms lowered to 10. - Alien structures now heal themselves slowly without dcs. - Movement chambers now cycles. - Marine RFK now scales on the lifeform killed. - Skulk de-evolve cost lowered to 0. - Knockback lowered. - New sticky skulks.
Maps that need work - ns_hera map double node proximity to ms - ns_agora total overhaul or removal - ns_nothing powersilo hive overhaul / remove elvators - ns_eclipse marine spawn rework -20 minute endgames!??!! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> - co_angst map rework - co_core? map removal <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Really. I find your chanlog a bit........well, disrespective to the creators. Come on, they have worked hard on what we are playing. Give them a break. core and agora are two top-notch maps, esp. agora.
A lot fo your ideas kinda suck too. Bring back advanced hivetisght instead of sof!!! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> SoF is way more useful tbh. I think all aliens should get adv. hivesight for free.
- skulk upgrades for free (possibly all alien upgrades for free) - skulk wall-walking improved/jump from wall added - knockback reduced (already done) - gorges improved or price reduced (5?) - alien RT improved - higher HP - comm ability to drop items fixed (already done) - comm doesnt hear things that are very far from marine structures/rines (prevents hive/detection, listening to identify aliens etc..) - onos speed improved or damage against it by HMG/SG/lmg reduced - old hivesight code for aliens re-enabled (you see marines seen by other aliens) - parasited buildings and marines use different icon - infinite scan exploit fixed - fade crouch hitbox bug fixed
To comment others: alien structures DO heal themselfs without DC :-)
It doesnt have that big an effect on the game as people realise unless used against people who can hardly hit a strafing target or cant aim that well so about 40% of the bullets hit.
C & C - Skill ANY GAME WILL BE dominated by the skill of the players - more skill they have the more it helps the team, also more skilled players (e.g. 1 or 2 higher skilled players on a server) will stick together and use TEAMWORK to overcome the higher lifeforms.
Which brings me onto my next point, SKULKS - these are ment to be ambusher's not full on combat, they are there to pick off lone marines and help other classes / skulks out, those that can use skulks well use a combanation of wall strafing, jumping and accuracy with OCCASIONAL bhopping to get around, into combat and out of combat.
Unchain the Chambers : - intresting plugin which might be good to test in the next beta to see its effects on balance and gameplay
And the sticking problems I would like to see fixed
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> - Alien res towers now silent. Thanks forlorn! - Gorge now cost 0 res. Alien starting res lowered to 15. Thanks travelyn! - Onos third hive abilty revamped to shorten endgames. - Fade gets new 3rd hive abilty. - Scent of fear replaced with awareness. - Alien gorges now have ability to move structures! - CC blocking no longer possible - MT now restricted to new extened range of observatory. - Marine sidestep penalized to half the penalty of backpedal. - Marine knife damage vs lifeforms lowered to 10. - Alien structures now heal themselves slowly without dcs. - Movement chambers now cycles. - Marine RFK now scales on the lifeform killed. - Skulk de-evolve cost lowered to 0. - Knockback lowered. - New sticky skulks. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you considered the overall impact on gameplay that these suggestions would have (yourself before just repeating others)?
- Gorge now cost 0 res. Alien starting res lowered to 15. Thanks travelyn! Mass gorge at start control a lot of res, swing early game one way or another.
- Onos third hive abilty revamped to shorten endgames. - Fade gets new 3rd hive abilty. (C & C elsewhere)
- Scent of fear replaced with awareness. (Same thing tbh or close to similar)
- Alien gorges now have ability to move structures! (The structures are buildings and should not be movable otherwise you would get creaping walls of lame)
- CC blocking no longer possible (C & C elsewhere)
- MT now restricted to new extened range of observatory. (MT is motion tracking and should show motion within a range, open to discussion elsewhere, could be viable)
- Marine sidestep penalized to half the penalty of backpedal. (The reason the marines sidestep ,is such as it is, is after testing by the Play testers to find a balanced speed, would make life easier for aliens)
- Marine knife damage vs lifeforms lowered to 10. (Knife is a last resort and people get killed easly anyway if they try to knife unless they cant aim too well or the other person is a good doger.)
Each of these would have changes on the game which may or may not alter the game play drastically (anyone remember babblers and paralise?)
- CC blocking no longer possible This would be annoying for the coders to implement, you would still need to move CC for relocation or mini bases which if there is a chamber nearby (perhaps in a vent) which could stop a lot of good relocation points from happening, i do agree that it shouldnt be used as a wall though, maybe acceptable for Oc' distracting but blocking off areas - perhaps not, discuss elsewhere.
- Onos third hive abilty revamped to shorten endgames. - Fade gets new 3rd hive abilty. ^^ suggestions as to what to do would help, Fade Acid Rocket is good because it gives the class a ranged wepon to remove armour before going in for the killing blow.
Charge is fine, its prime use is for a hit and run attack which is what the aliens excell at.
(sorry for all the editing, came back after thinking more about this <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
Walkingtarget doesn't make a good point on the other items so I won't even bother to comment, but on this...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Gorge now cost 0 res. Alien starting res lowered to 15. Thanks travelyn! Mass gorge at start control a lot of res, swing early game one way or another.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As of now, rine gorge hunting -at the very start- is an extremely viable and crippling tactic against any alien team. This puts the aliens at a huge disadvantage RES wise. The system now makes RT recovery a very lengthy process for the aliens. Rines don't even bother protecting their RTs anymore knowing that destroying alien RTs is a better way to go seeing it takes much longer for aliens to replace RTs than it is for marines to replace their own.
Lastly, lowering the starting res of the aliens will delay early fades. Which is GOOD a good thing for the rines.
Watch a proper gorge rush and you will see the effects of perhaps 8 aliens gorging at once - 3 to lame near marine start, 5 to get Rt's will give you a very large advantage resource wise which with a whole team of gorges you can use in the form of mass walls of lame at critical points, or save quickly for higher lifeforms (this harldy ever happens with all but a very good teamwork with the public or perhaps in clan matches).
Also try to kill 8 or more gorges all healspray / spit rushing.
And most of the comments are my opinion - feel free to comment or argue.
<!--QuoteBegin-Walking Target+Jun 16 2004, 08:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Walking Target @ Jun 16 2004, 08:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Watch a proper gorge rush and you will see the effects of perhaps 8 aliens gorging at once - 3 to lame near marine start, 5 to get Rt's will give you a very large advantage resource wise which with a whole team of gorges you can use in the form of mass walls of lame at critical points, or save quickly for higher lifeforms (this harldy ever happens with all but a very good teamwork with the public or perhaps in clan matches).
Also try to kill 8 or more gorges all healspray / spit rushing.
And most of the comments are my opinion - feel free to comment or argue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A half competent team could beat this with a knife and medspam
What do you mean by unchaining the chambers? Does that mean that you would like to build all of the chambers with only one hive?
What about upgrades? How would those be done? Would you beable to pick any upgrade you wanted and the lvl would depend on how many hives you have? Or would it depend on how many chambers you had? Could you have all the upgrades with only 1 hive?
It would be cool if you could pick any upgrade you wanted (as long as you have at least 1 of that type alive and built) and lvls would depend on how many chambers you have (as it is right now), and the number of hives would allow you to pick another upgrade. It would kind of be like CO (how you can have more than 1 of the same type of upgrade, eg. regen and cara at the same time), but the hives determine how many upgrades you can have at once.
And if a hive dies, you'll keep your upgrades until you die or lose them some other way. I do relize this might be a bit over powered, but think, if someone gets all the upgrades of one type and all the chambers are killed, they are pretty much stuck unless they got the res for more upgrades (not like its much to upgrade, but sometimes its all of your res for minutes.)
Sorry for the uninformed questions, I've been lerking for a lot lately in the NS Customization forums and not reading the others (especially S&I forums).
<!--QuoteBegin-Schimmel+Jun 16 2004, 02:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Schimmel @ Jun 16 2004, 02:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> omg, where have you been the last week? Check this: <a href='http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=550' target='_blank'>Unchain Plugin</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I've been working and napping actually, plus I just got a notebook computer from my parents for graduating highschool, so I've been playing with that. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Thx for the link. Unchaining the chambers does seem a bit helpful.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Watch a proper gorge rush and you will see the effects of perhaps 8 aliens gorging at once - 3 to lame near marine start, 5 to get Rt's will give you a very large advantage resource wise which with a whole team of gorges you can use in the form of mass walls of lame at critical points, or save quickly for higher lifeforms (this harldy ever happens with all but a very good teamwork with the public or perhaps in clan matches).
Also try to kill 8 or more gorges all healspray / spit rushing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The gorge rush is essentially the alien equivilant of the shotgun rush. Both have a very high risk but a potentially high reward. neither are seen very often because they are so risky; if you win, well it's game over, but if you lose, and as Forlorn points out, you do run a high chance of failing, it's game over for you. Your team will never recover from losing that much res early on.
Lowering gorge cost to 0 and reducing alien starting res would certainly help help the alien side and I can't see why it would lead to mass gorge rushes. If it really was a problem, just tweak gorge health accordingly.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ryo-Ohki+Jun 17 2004, 05:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Jun 17 2004, 05:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The gorge rush .. a very high risk .. if you lose .. Your team will never recover from losing that much res early on.
Lowering gorge cost to 0 .. I can't see why it would lead to mass gorge rushes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Just highlighting some of what you said.
Gorge rush is a high-risk tactic, with a potential to win the game, but the risk comes from the threat of losing all that res in the early going.
Yet if we eliminate the cost to gorge, don't we eliminate that risk? And if the risk isn't there, why *wouldn't* it lead to mass gorge rushes?
Guys... a mass gorge rush is at the oppisite side of a shotgun rush except it has zero killing power... therefore it sucks, and yet the gorge rush costs all of your res.
Here is the killing potential scale of sucidal rushes:
<OWNAGE-----------------------------------------------------------WEAK> ____SG_____Early relocation to hive__________________Gorgerush
- Increased the armor of the skulk to 20 - Marine RFK down to 1 for any Lifeform - Evolving to skulk down to 0 - New Evolving system: (thanks to Forlorn for the idea) -- When you evolve to a new lifeform, you lose all upgrades -- Costs 1 res for skulks and gorges and lerks for upgrades -- Costs 2 res for fades and onos - Unchain chambers - old hivesight code for aliens re-enabled (thanks to Licho) - Only 2 CCs possible on the map at the same time
<!--QuoteBegin-UKchaos+Jun 13 2004, 02:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Jun 13 2004, 02:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Flayra said it was a skill, and that it fits the aliens perfectly because the aliens overall are based on speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quote please?
Im still convinced its primary role was to please vets/clanners. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then leave it. It's obvious enough that a majority of the decision that are going to be made will be made to help the pubbers and new players, and not serious, competitive play. Bunnyhopping needs to stay, as a tribute to the lack of help good players and vets actually get. If unchaining chambers goes through, there is the pubbers tribute. Unchaining chambers will destroy competitive play. Bunnyhopping should, and most likely will stay. If you can't gain the skill to bunnyhop, or gain the skill to kill a bunnyhopping alien, then you need to practice more, because it can be done, and doesn't need to be changed because YOU can't do it.
But now to be on topic... ... Forlorns changelog ftw
Also, cloaking needs to make a skulk completely invisible, then there will be no room for people to say "I saw you." when you magically get pistol sniped across a hallway.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
well, it will change the game in a positiv manner. Meaning that you can form squads of skulks with different upgrades, more variations and more tactics. What exactly will change in competitive game:
<b>1.)</b> Aliens will drop at first 1 sensory, so skulks and all units are able to use cloaking from the beginning on.
<b>2.)</b> When the hive is going up, 1 MC will be dropped at the main hive, so aliens would have a direct connection to the unbuild hive when it´s under attack.
<b>3.)</b> Aliens would build 3 DCs in order to support regeneration fades.
<b>4.)</b> If aliens get enough res, one gorge could set up 3 MCs to open the upgrade "celerity/adrenalin" for lerks.
In longer games, the aliens will drop more and more SCs at choke points to get more control in this areas. Gorges will still concentrate their resources for res nodes, so no early "walls of lame" will be created. At the moment it wouldn´t push the aliens that much, just because they are weaker than the marines at the moment. I don´t worry about any balance problems, just because of the fact:
<u>now it looks like this:</u> in early games: Marines > Aliens in mid games: Marines ~ Aliens (just because of fades and onos) in end games: Marines > Aliens (base camping, if aliens win, you know the scenario)
<u>Now, I hope so, it would look like this:</u> early games: Marines ~ Aliens (skulks with upgrade variations) mid games: Marines ~ Aliens (sensory choke points) end games: Marines > Aliens (base camping)
so true. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nah, I think it will remain pretty much the same. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Explain. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that you wont be able to afford many more chambers since you DO need the 2nd hive and fades asap if youre not pulling of a SC strat.
The only way this could be effective is by building scs with the sacrifice of a fade.
The only change I think we will see is more scs. Well thats what I think.
Please don't start a new discussion about unchained chabers here (because it's the wrong thread)....
the title is "What Do You Expect Of Beta 5"
btw Schimmel, you have no idea of current competitive games between highskilled clans. Why?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gorges will still concentrate their resources for res nodes, so no early "walls of lame" will be created.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry, never saw one...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->in end games: Marines > Aliens (base camping, if aliens win, you know the scenario)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> typical pub scenario, has nothing to do with balance
Comments
Remove jumping marines on crack mixed with fine sugar.
Remove onos.
Overhaull all damage/res/hp values.
OMG!! TEH WELDER hoverS!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- Alien res towers now silent. Thanks forlorn!
- Gorge now cost 0 res. Alien starting res lowered to 15. Thanks travelyn!
- Onos third hive abilty revamped to shorten endgames. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70064&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a>
- Fade gets new 3rd hive abilty. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32020&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a>
- Scent of fear replaced with awareness. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69893&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a>
- Alien gorges now have ability to move structures! <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70345&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a>
- CC blocking no longer possible <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69588&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a>
- MT now restricted to new extened range of observatory. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69667&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a>
- Marine sidestep penalized to half the penalty of backpedal.
- Marine knife damage vs lifeforms lowered to 10.
- Alien structures now heal themselves slowly without dcs.
- Movement chambers now cycles.
- Marine RFK now scales on the lifeform killed.
- Skulk de-evolve cost lowered to 0.
- Knockback lowered.
- New sticky skulks.
Maps that need work
- ns_hera map double node proximity to ms
- ns_agora total overhaul or removal
- ns_nothing powersilo hive overhaul / remove elvators
- ns_eclipse marine spawn rework -20 minute endgames!??!! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- co_angst map rework
- co_core? map removal
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for summarizing all of this, don't buildings currently heal themselves?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for summarizing all of this, don't buildings currently heal themselves? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup.
Maybe he wants DC like healing which is much more but without the DC?
- Alien res towers now silent. Thanks forlorn!
- Gorge now cost 0 res. Alien starting res lowered to 15. Thanks travelyn!
- Onos third hive abilty revamped to shorten endgames. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70064&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a>
- Fade gets new 3rd hive abilty. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32020&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a>
- Scent of fear replaced with awareness. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69893&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a>
- Alien gorges now have ability to move structures! <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70345&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a>
- CC blocking no longer possible <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69588&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a>
- MT now restricted to new extened range of observatory. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69667&hl=' target='_blank'>Discuss here</a>
- Marine sidestep penalized to half the penalty of backpedal.
- Marine knife damage vs lifeforms lowered to 10.
- Alien structures now heal themselves slowly without dcs.
- Movement chambers now cycles.
- Marine RFK now scales on the lifeform killed.
- Skulk de-evolve cost lowered to 0.
- Knockback lowered.
- New sticky skulks.
Maps that need work
- ns_hera map double node proximity to ms
- ns_agora total overhaul or removal
- ns_nothing powersilo hive overhaul / remove elvators
- ns_eclipse marine spawn rework -20 minute endgames!??!! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- co_angst map rework
- co_core? map removal <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really. I find your chanlog a bit........well, disrespective to the creators. Come on, they have worked hard on what we are playing. Give them a break.
core and agora are two top-notch maps, esp. agora.
A lot fo your ideas kinda suck too. Bring back advanced hivetisght instead of sof!!! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> SoF is way more useful tbh. I think all aliens should get adv. hivesight for free.
Stop beeing a ****, the maps are great.
- skulk wall-walking improved/jump from wall added
- knockback reduced (already done)
- gorges improved or price reduced (5?)
- alien RT improved - higher HP
- comm ability to drop items fixed (already done)
- comm doesnt hear things that are very far from marine structures/rines (prevents hive/detection, listening to identify aliens etc..)
- onos speed improved or damage against it by HMG/SG/lmg reduced
- old hivesight code for aliens re-enabled (you see marines seen by other aliens)
- parasited buildings and marines use different icon
- infinite scan exploit fixed
- fade crouch hitbox bug fixed
To comment others:
alien structures DO heal themselfs without DC :-)
It doesnt have that big an effect on the game as people realise unless used against people who can hardly hit a strafing target or cant aim that well so about 40% of the bullets hit.
C & C - Skill
ANY GAME WILL BE dominated by the skill of the players - more skill they have the more it helps the team, also more skilled players (e.g. 1 or 2 higher skilled players on a server) will stick together and use TEAMWORK to overcome the higher lifeforms.
Which brings me onto my next point, SKULKS - these are ment to be ambusher's not full on combat, they are there to pick off lone marines and help other classes / skulks out, those that can use skulks well use a combanation of wall strafing, jumping and accuracy with OCCASIONAL bhopping to get around, into combat and out of combat.
Unchain the Chambers : - intresting plugin which might be good to test in the next beta to see its effects on balance and gameplay
And the sticking problems I would like to see fixed
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- Alien res towers now silent. Thanks forlorn!
- Gorge now cost 0 res. Alien starting res lowered to 15. Thanks travelyn!
- Onos third hive abilty revamped to shorten endgames.
- Fade gets new 3rd hive abilty.
- Scent of fear replaced with awareness.
- Alien gorges now have ability to move structures!
- CC blocking no longer possible
- MT now restricted to new extened range of observatory.
- Marine sidestep penalized to half the penalty of backpedal.
- Marine knife damage vs lifeforms lowered to 10.
- Alien structures now heal themselves slowly without dcs.
- Movement chambers now cycles.
- Marine RFK now scales on the lifeform killed.
- Skulk de-evolve cost lowered to 0.
- Knockback lowered.
- New sticky skulks.
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Have you considered the overall impact on gameplay that these suggestions would have (yourself before just repeating others)?
- Gorge now cost 0 res. Alien starting res lowered to 15. Thanks travelyn!
Mass gorge at start control a lot of res, swing early game one way or another.
- Onos third hive abilty revamped to shorten endgames.
- Fade gets new 3rd hive abilty.
(C & C elsewhere)
- Scent of fear replaced with awareness.
(Same thing tbh or close to similar)
- Alien gorges now have ability to move structures!
(The structures are buildings and should not be movable otherwise you would get creaping walls of lame)
- CC blocking no longer possible
(C & C elsewhere)
- MT now restricted to new extened range of observatory.
(MT is motion tracking and should show motion within a range, open to discussion elsewhere, could be viable)
- Marine sidestep penalized to half the penalty of backpedal.
(The reason the marines sidestep ,is such as it is, is after testing by the Play testers to find a balanced speed, would make life easier for aliens)
- Marine knife damage vs lifeforms lowered to 10.
(Knife is a last resort and people get killed easly anyway if they try to knife unless they cant aim too well or the other person is a good doger.)
Each of these would have changes on the game which may or may not alter the game play drastically (anyone remember babblers and paralise?)
- CC blocking no longer possible
This would be annoying for the coders to implement, you would still need to move CC for relocation or mini bases which if there is a chamber nearby (perhaps in a vent) which could stop a lot of good relocation points from happening, i do agree that it shouldnt be used as a wall though, maybe acceptable for Oc' distracting but blocking off areas - perhaps not, discuss elsewhere.
- Onos third hive abilty revamped to shorten endgames.
- Fade gets new 3rd hive abilty.
^^ suggestions as to what to do would help, Fade Acid Rocket is good because it gives the class a ranged wepon to remove armour before going in for the killing blow.
Charge is fine, its prime use is for a hit and run attack which is what the aliens excell at.
(sorry for all the editing, came back after thinking more about this <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
This new freaking system that Keeps being announced!! Driving me nutty!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Gorge now cost 0 res. Alien starting res lowered to 15. Thanks travelyn!
Mass gorge at start control a lot of res, swing early game one way or another.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As of now, rine gorge hunting -at the very start- is an extremely viable and crippling tactic against any alien team. This puts the aliens at a huge disadvantage RES wise. The system now makes RT recovery a very lengthy process for the aliens. Rines don't even bother protecting their RTs anymore knowing that destroying alien RTs is a better way to go seeing it takes much longer for aliens to replace RTs than it is for marines to replace their own.
Lastly, lowering the starting res of the aliens will delay early fades. Which is GOOD a good thing for the rines.
Also try to kill 8 or more gorges all healspray / spit rushing.
And most of the comments are my opinion - feel free to comment or argue.
Also try to kill 8 or more gorges all healspray / spit rushing.
And most of the comments are my opinion - feel free to comment or argue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A half competent team could beat this with a knife and medspam
I dont think so.
What about upgrades? How would those be done? Would you beable to pick any upgrade you wanted and the lvl would depend on how many hives you have? Or would it depend on how many chambers you had? Could you have all the upgrades with only 1 hive?
It would be cool if you could pick any upgrade you wanted (as long as you have at least 1 of that type alive and built) and lvls would depend on how many chambers you have (as it is right now), and the number of hives would allow you to pick another upgrade. It would kind of be like CO (how you can have more than 1 of the same type of upgrade, eg. regen and cara at the same time), but the hives determine how many upgrades you can have at once.
Maybe:
1 hive = 1 upgrade
2 hives = 2 upgrades
3 hives = 3 upgrades
or even
1 hive = 2 upgrades
2 hives = 4 upgrades
3 hives = 6 upgrades
And if a hive dies, you'll keep your upgrades until you die or lose them some other way. I do relize this might be a bit over powered, but think, if someone gets all the upgrades of one type and all the chambers are killed, they are pretty much stuck unless they got the res for more upgrades (not like its much to upgrade, but sometimes its all of your res for minutes.)
Sorry for the uninformed questions, I've been lerking for a lot lately in the NS Customization forums and not reading the others (especially S&I forums).
I've been working and napping actually, plus I just got a notebook computer from my parents for graduating highschool, so I've been playing with that. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Thx for the link. Unchaining the chambers does seem a bit helpful.
- Make hand grenades more viable.
Also try to kill 8 or more gorges all healspray / spit rushing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The gorge rush is essentially the alien equivilant of the shotgun rush. Both have a very high risk but a potentially high reward. neither are seen very often because they are so risky; if you win, well it's game over, but if you lose, and as Forlorn points out, you do run a high chance of failing, it's game over for you. Your team will never recover from losing that much res early on.
Lowering gorge cost to 0 and reducing alien starting res would certainly help help the alien side and I can't see why it would lead to mass gorge rushes. If it really was a problem, just tweak gorge health accordingly.
Lowering gorge cost to 0 .. I can't see why it would lead to mass gorge rushes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just highlighting some of what you said.
Gorge rush is a high-risk tactic, with a potential to win the game, but the risk comes from the threat of losing all that res in the early going.
Yet if we eliminate the cost to gorge, don't we eliminate that risk?
And if the risk isn't there, why *wouldn't* it lead to mass gorge rushes?
Here is the killing potential scale of sucidal rushes:
<OWNAGE-----------------------------------------------------------WEAK>
____SG_____Early relocation to hive__________________Gorgerush
- Marine RFK down to 1 for any Lifeform
- Evolving to skulk down to 0
- New Evolving system: (thanks to Forlorn for the idea)
-- When you evolve to a new lifeform, you lose all upgrades
-- Costs 1 res for skulks and gorges and lerks for upgrades
-- Costs 2 res for fades and onos
- Unchain chambers
- old hivesight code for aliens re-enabled (thanks to Licho)
- Only 2 CCs possible on the map at the same time
- Fix as many Bugs and Stuck Issues as possible
Quote please?
Im still convinced its primary role was to please vets/clanners. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then leave it. It's obvious enough that a majority of the decision that are going to be made will be made to help the pubbers and new players, and not serious, competitive play. Bunnyhopping needs to stay, as a tribute to the lack of help good players and vets actually get. If unchaining chambers goes through, there is the pubbers tribute. Unchaining chambers will destroy competitive play. Bunnyhopping should, and most likely will stay. If you can't gain the skill to bunnyhop, or gain the skill to kill a bunnyhopping alien, then you need to practice more, because it can be done, and doesn't need to be changed because YOU can't do it.
But now to be on topic... ... Forlorns changelog ftw
Also, cloaking needs to make a skulk completely invisible, then there will be no room for people to say "I saw you." when you magically get pistol sniped across a hallway.
so true. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah, I think it will remain pretty much the same.
<b>1.)</b> Aliens will drop at first 1 sensory, so skulks and all units are able to use cloaking from the beginning on.
<b>2.)</b> When the hive is going up, 1 MC will be dropped at the main hive, so aliens would have a direct connection to the unbuild hive when it´s under attack.
<b>3.)</b> Aliens would build 3 DCs in order to support regeneration fades.
<b>4.)</b> If aliens get enough res, one gorge could set up 3 MCs to open the upgrade "celerity/adrenalin" for lerks.
In longer games, the aliens will drop more and more SCs at choke points to get more control in this areas. Gorges will still concentrate their resources for res nodes, so no early "walls of lame" will be created.
At the moment it wouldn´t push the aliens that much, just because they are weaker than the marines at the moment. I don´t worry about any balance problems, just because of the fact:
<u>now it looks like this:</u>
in early games: Marines > Aliens
in mid games: Marines ~ Aliens (just because of fades and onos)
in end games: Marines > Aliens (base camping, if aliens win, you know the scenario)
<u>Now, I hope so, it would look like this:</u>
early games: Marines ~ Aliens (skulks with upgrade variations)
mid games: Marines ~ Aliens (sensory choke points)
end games: Marines > Aliens (base camping)
so true. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah, I think it will remain pretty much the same. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Explain. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that you wont be able to afford many more chambers since you DO need the 2nd hive and fades asap if youre not pulling of a SC strat.
The only way this could be effective is by building scs with the sacrifice of a fade.
The only change I think we will see is more scs.
Well thats what I think.
the title is "What Do You Expect Of Beta 5"
btw Schimmel, you have no idea of current competitive games between highskilled clans. Why?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gorges will still concentrate their resources for res nodes, so no early "walls of lame" will be created.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, never saw one...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->in end games: Marines > Aliens (base camping, if aliens win, you know the scenario)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
typical pub scenario, has nothing to do with balance