All hitbox bugs fixed. Few remaining stuckpoints located and fixed. Fade ladder issue fixed. Marine aerial knockback issue fixed. Marine welder deals low damage to aliens. Marine prep-time on hand grenade lowered. Marine hand grenade damage increased. Catalyst research time and cost reduced slightly. Chambers unchained OC RoF increased slightly Alien flashlight now affects marine units, not alien units (why is it the aliens have a harder time in the dark than the marines?) Alien flashlight fullbrights alien using it. New parasite color for structures. Alien callouts put back into pop-up menu and game controls menu for binding.
Structure under attack shown on pop-up map.
Several map changes to various maps to promote more use of ceilings, walls, & jetpacks. Several map changes for balance issues.
Annnd..while I'm dreaming.. Marines in sight of one alien can be seen by all aliens. Marine knife RoF cut in half. Marine knife disorientation removed. Marine knife gains blast damage (x2 vs. structures) Marines must now use buildings to gain upgrades once researched: Arms lab: weapons upgrade Observatory: motion tracking Armory: armor upgrade Each building has a pool of energy that slowly regenerates. Each use by a marine depletes that pool. Destruction of building does *not* remove upgrade until marine respawns. Hive and DCs now heal fixed amounts of damage. Gorge healspray now heals percentage amount based on total hp of alien being healed. Fade loses meta, acid rocket dropped to 2nd hive and energy cost increased, gains paralyze at 3rd hive. Onos loses stomp, gains meta. Charge remains 3rd hive, knockback effect increased. Parasited marines suiciding (by /kill or environmental damage) give RFK to the last alien to parasite them. Siege cannon affects volumetrically rather than horizonal plane. Siege cannon must be personally targetted by marine. Marine must physically be able to see the structure for cannon to activate. Cannon will not fire if structure is cloaked or no marine has direct LoS on it. Marine weaponry gains tiny knockback effect when hitting an alien. Knockback effect adjusted from strongest to weakest by alien class as follows: skulk, lerk, gorge, fade, onos
Veteran testing re-established to operate concurrently with pub testing.
o Crazy Knockback fixed o Regen now flows over from HP to AP o ex_interp unlocked o Acid Rocket deals 50 Combat only: o Mirror Damage is by default set to on; set sv_mirrordamage 0 to turn off. o Teams spawn in 1/3 of the enemies teamsize at a whack, spawn waves happen every 10 seconds o Webbing removed o Xenocide removed o Dying makes you respawn in as skulk, always o You keep all upgrades with each death, but if you were a larger lifeform you lose that o You regain points that you spent on the lifeform o You may only evolve once per life from skulk o Evolving to another lifeform works like this: oo 1 point to go gorge oo 2 points to go lerk oo 3 points to go fade oo 4 points to go onos o Evolution times are 1/3 of what they are in classic for all lifeforms o Timelimit increased to 15 min Classic Only: o Alien res towers are now silent o Electrification drains aliens adrenaline, cannot be stacked with more than one elec structure o Evolution chambers unlocked oo Linked chambers to a hive cost 10, Unlinked chambers cost 15 o Medpacks fixed o HLTV fixed o Stuck issues adressed (ventiatlation hive, fusion hive) o Fixed +duck fades o De-evolving to skulk costs 1 res o Quake Jumping system implemented o New Evolving system: oo When you evolve to a new lifeform, you lose all upgrades oo Costs 1 res for skulk to get upgrade oo Costs 2 res for lerks and gorges oo Costs 3 res for fades and onos
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->o Crazy Knockback fixed o Regen now flows over from HP to AP o ex_interp unlocked<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think all this is already done for b5.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Combat only: o Teams spawn in 1/3 of the enemies teamsize at a whack o Webbing removed o Xenocide removed o Dying makes you respawn in as skulk, always o You keep all upgrades with each death, but if you were a larger lifeform you lose that o You regain points that you spent on the lifeform o You may only evolve once per life from skulk o Evolving to another lifeform works like this: oo 1 point to go gorge oo 2 points to go lerk oo 3 points to go fade oo 4 points to go onos o Evolution times are 1/3 of what they are in classic for all lifeforms o Timelimit increased to 15 min <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <3 most this changes, they would give new player a better feeling for classic mode. some things I have problems with: - I think 4 points for onos is too cheap. Higher Lifeforms win the game for aliens. - Removement of Skills, Xenoside is a nobriner, but webs are the only effective counter against jp. I suggest a minimum level for Hive3 abilitys. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Classic Only: o Alien res towers are now silent <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> A good commander can hear the gorge, that is building the rt, so that would be no real solution. My idea is that MCs have a silence area around them... but it's possible the wrong thread to discuss it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->o Electrification drains energy, cannot be stacked with more than one elec structure<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I cannot see any improvement in this... <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->o Evolution chambers unlocked<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> A huge change for a beta step. Do you not think it must be playtestet or something? <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->oo Sensories cost 12<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you think that sensories must cost more, then prob because they are unbalanced compared to the other chambers. How about balancing first? <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->o Marine RFK removed o Medpacks fixed o HLTV fixed o Stuck issues adressed (ventiatlation hive, fusion hive) o Fixed +duck fades o Quake Jumping system implemented oo Costs 1 res for skulk to get upgrade oo Costs 2 res for lerks and gorges oo Costs 3 res for fades and onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->o De-evolving to skulk costs 1 res o New Evolving system: oo When you evolve to a new lifeform, you lose all upgrades<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't like to see this changes. I think it's nice the way it is now.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> o Evolution chambers unlocked<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> A huge change for a beta step. Do you not think it must be playtestet or something?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It has been playtested, although not officially. Read <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72187' target='_blank'>here</a> to see all about it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- I think 4 points for onos is too cheap. Higher Lifeforms win the game for aliens. - Removement of Skills, Xenoside is a nobriner, but webs are the only effective counter against jp. I suggest a minimum level for Hive3 abilitys.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are looking at this wrong... it's not just '4 points'. It's 4 points that are completey saved up, meanwhile you are a skulk the ENTIRE time. If you can get 4 point successivly and marines aren't getting a whole lotta tech and upgrades while fighting plain old weak skulks, then they deserve to lose at this point.
Xeno is incredilbly overpowered in that sense the entire game of combat revolves around getting a kill on someone, currently xeno is really cheap in that a person leaps around the courner, gives you about .3 seconds to shoot them (yes this is possible, and too effective), and you need a direct shotty shot which is the only thing that can kill them fast enough before they explode, removing all of your armor and I hope you have resupply. It requires teamwork, yes, but it's too good nonetheless. Alien teams that use this skill effectively totally dominate marines.
Webbing, too, will completely halt a game of combat. A good gorge or two that webs it up will be able to stop masses of marines, and a lv. 1 vanilla skulk will be able to kill several lv. 10 marines. It's not fair and the counters to webs are really hard to use and are quite limited. Note, I added something else to my changelog; sv_mirrordamage because GL spam and spam of all weapons should be discouraged. Keep in mind that mirror damge would be 1/3 of what you deal when it hits an enemy, because that's how FF in NS works to begain with. Welders, also, suck at killing webs and are not effective at doing so at all in combat, since you must stand still or walk slowly forward with your welder out. I think out of maybe out of the few hundred games of combat I have played, yet have I seen one marine win once aliens get webs. It's overpowered, pure and simple. It fits in regular NS as a unbalanced end all ability, but not in combat.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A good commander can hear the gorge, that is building the rt, so that would be no real solution. My idea is that MCs have a silence area around them... but it's possible the wrong thread to discuss it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Silent nodes will stop marines from knowing which hive aliens have from their comm listening for the node.
Also, marines can hear nodes through walls, and a comm who listens for the gorge is a skilled comm IMO; tracking a moving invisible target is pretty tough to do.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I cannot see any improvement in this...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do. Currently, how do you counter electricity?
Defense chambers! (Regen)
What about turrets?
D chambers! (regen)
What about mines?
D Chambers! (regen) Or a select few projectile attacks, such as spit, bile bomb and acid rocket
Why not make one of the counters and uses to marine tech is by movement chambers?
It would be easy to do too; just make movement chambers drain energy at the same rate that the lv. 3 adrenaline upgrade refills your adrenaline bar.
And it would hit unlimited targets too.
Also, think about it; you would never see another pub game where marines lock down the entire map with electricity, because a determined skulk could still kill an electrified node by simply hitting it, pulling away, getting more adren, biting it, rinse wash repeat.
However, say you add marines into the mix to hold a fortified area (such as seige location) fades would want to avoid this, as would onos and lerks, because you need lots of adren to fight as these creatures, so you would need to kill all present marines before taking on the electrified buildings as well.
Meaning that electrified structures would do two things, which I think are great changes:
- The new electrified scturtures would be BETTER than they currently are, with marine support - And they would be worse without marine support.
And focusing on player vs. player more so than structure vs. player is always a good thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you think that sensories must cost more, then prob because they are unbalanced compared to the other chambers. How about balancing first?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sensories are just really good right now, before their cost of 10 was justified as you couldn't get anything else after them and they sucked late game, but now you can build whatever, so the easy fix to make sure they are placed more carefull is to increase it's cost. Also, if you don't increase the cost of sensory chambers, then you limit the field use of the other chambers.
Also, I did some other changes to my changelog:
I got rid of the idea that marines no longer recieve afk; this patch would give a lot of benifits to aliens so we can't nerf marines too much at once.
o Acid Rocket deals 50
Combat Only: o Mirror Damage is by default set to on; set sv_mirrordamage 0 to turn off.
Mirror Damage kills all forms of spam. It may be abusable; i. e. I run into your GL spam so you take damage, but this is okay in my book because it discourages spam even more, which is a good thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You are looking at this wrong... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats true... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> (but now I understand it)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Xeno... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, it is very powerful and and also a nobrainer (you just press a key and hope to kill many mariens). But I think taking a skill out of combat is not realistic, because it is part of the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Webbing... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ye, I know. Once the aliens have webs it's getting really hard for marines. Only thing that comes in my mind is an idea I heard once, the "equipment pack", with all 3 equipments (mines, welder, handgranade) for one point. The welder would be more cost effective and hopfully more often used.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, marines can hear nodes through walls, and a comm who listens for the gorge is a skilled comm IMO; tracking a moving invisible target is pretty tough to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can hear the gorge moving and building, and you often know where the first rts getting build. I think it would not help the balance if two experienced teams playing against each other. I would like to see it to counter "hearing rts" with Movment Chambers.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Electrification drains energy<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You explenation was missing... now it sonds better. Do you have already an idea about the costs? 30 is to expensive in my opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sensories are just really good right now, before their cost of 10 was justified as you couldn't get anything else after them and they sucked late game, but now you can build whatever, so the easy fix to make sure they are placed more carefull is to increase it's cost. Also, if you don't increase the cost of sensory chambers, then you limit the field use of the other chambers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well... I hope unchained chambers will not (never <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) be included in the game. I prefer the idea of a good working "countersystem". But more about that prob later <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Forlorn's elec system is definitely needed , to increase the role of field MCs. Obviously it should cost less , but I'm sure it will prove to be effective , especially against higher life forms.
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
O Electrification costs 20 resources (down from 30 resources) O Electricity drains energy from the electrified structure. After 15 eletricities (whatever <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) the electrified structure runs out of energy O Welder now refills electrified structures energy. After 5 seconds of consecutive weding, an electrified structures energy is refilled O Electricity's RoF is doubled O Electricity's research time is now 20 seconds
O The gorge is now free, and aliens start with 15 res each O Skulk stats raised to 70/20 O Onos stats raised to 900/800 O Onos cost raised to 80 res in NS mode, and 5 in combat O In combat, an evolution (gorge, lerk, fade, onos) can only be purchased once (no gorge before lerk, fade or onos, and no fade before onos Fade cost raised to 3 in combat Lerk cost raised to 2 in combat Gorge cost is 0 levels (remember, if you go gorge you cant be anything else) O Onos speed raised to 250 units/second O Lerk stats raised to 130/40 O Lerk gestation time lowered to 17 seconds O Lerk cost lowered to 20 res (to make lerks a viable choice later in the game, or if the aliens are losing) O Spikes are back for lerk! It is a toggle in the first slot (like welder, mines and grenade) This makes them the first alien to have 5 weapons O Fade speed raised to 260 units/second O In NS, the fade costs 45 res (this works out because aliens start out with 15 res instead of 25, so the fade effectively costs 5 res more if you save from the beginning of the game O Acid Rocket does 40 damage, and uses the same amount of energy O Fade health reduced to 275/120 O Hives scale in cost depending on which hive is being put up: Hive 1 costs 30 res (now aliens can come back if they are losing), hive 2 costs 40 res, and hive 3 costs 50 res. O Movement Chambers have a silence area around them (100% silent) and a celerity boost (10% per chamber..this stacks) O Defense Chambers now heal a % (each chamber heals 3% health...this stacks with more chambers O Sensory Chambers now parasite on contact O All chambers now cost 12 res each O Chambers are unchained from hives!
O When grenades are researched, marines spawn with 2 grenades instead of 1 O Catalyst packs cost 2 res instead of 4, so they are used more often O Heavy armor costs 60 res to research and 10 res to place (each) O Jetpacks cost 60 res to research and 10 res to place O Both jetpack and heavy armor has a research time of 80 seconds O Turret factories are no longer called Turret Factories, but (something to do with electricity...) oo They are no longer needed to build turrets, only to get electricity oo Turret factories cost 15 resources and have 1500 health. They are automatically electrified with all of the rules stated at the top oo Turrets cost 12 resources and can be placed anywhere O HMG magazine size raised to 180 (up from 125) oo Only 1 extra magazine can be carried with the HMG O No RfK for skulks anymore O RfK is awarded based on class Skulk: 0 Gorge: 1 Lerk: 2 Fade: 4 Onos: 5 O Weapons upgrades effect turrets O Siege turrets are researched at the arms lab for 75 res oo Research time is 75 seconds oo Siege turrets can be dropped anywhere (like a normal turret can now) O Heavy armor upgrades like this: 200 armor, 240 armor, 280 armor, 320 armor O Mines now cost 5 res for a pack oo In combat you respawn with 2 mines
I actually agree with most of Forlorns changelog... It would be a breath of fresh air. Who cares if some of the changes don't work out? They can just be fixed in the next version, which would hopefully be released soon after that.
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
it wouldnt be that overpowered, it only gained: 3 seconds less of gestation, 10 res less cost(because aliens start with 15 res), and 25, 30, and 35 more health (in order from hive 1-3).
<!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /><!--endemo--> is good enough, skilled players who use lerk are very hard to kill
Comments
All hitbox bugs fixed.
Few remaining stuckpoints located and fixed.
Fade ladder issue fixed.
Marine aerial knockback issue fixed.
Marine welder deals low damage to aliens.
Marine prep-time on hand grenade lowered.
Marine hand grenade damage increased.
Catalyst research time and cost reduced slightly.
Chambers unchained
OC RoF increased slightly
Alien flashlight now affects marine units, not alien units (why is it the aliens have a harder time in the dark than the marines?)
Alien flashlight fullbrights alien using it.
New parasite color for structures.
Alien callouts put back into pop-up menu and game controls menu for binding.
Structure under attack shown on pop-up map.
Several map changes to various maps to promote more use of ceilings, walls, & jetpacks.
Several map changes for balance issues.
Annnd..while I'm dreaming..
Marines in sight of one alien can be seen by all aliens.
Marine knife RoF cut in half.
Marine knife disorientation removed.
Marine knife gains blast damage (x2 vs. structures)
Marines must now use buildings to gain upgrades once researched:
Arms lab: weapons upgrade
Observatory: motion tracking
Armory: armor upgrade
Each building has a pool of energy that slowly regenerates. Each use by a marine depletes that pool.
Destruction of building does *not* remove upgrade until marine respawns.
Hive and DCs now heal fixed amounts of damage.
Gorge healspray now heals percentage amount based on total hp of alien being healed.
Fade loses meta, acid rocket dropped to 2nd hive and energy cost increased, gains paralyze at 3rd hive.
Onos loses stomp, gains meta. Charge remains 3rd hive, knockback effect increased.
Parasited marines suiciding (by /kill or environmental damage) give RFK to the last alien to parasite them.
Siege cannon affects volumetrically rather than horizonal plane.
Siege cannon must be personally targetted by marine. Marine must physically be able to see the structure for cannon to activate. Cannon will not fire if structure is cloaked or no marine has direct LoS on it.
Marine weaponry gains tiny knockback effect when hitting an alien. Knockback effect adjusted from strongest to weakest by alien class as follows: skulk, lerk, gorge, fade, onos
Veteran testing re-established to operate concurrently with pub testing.
o Crazy Knockback fixed
o Regen now flows over from HP to AP
o ex_interp unlocked
o Acid Rocket deals 50
Combat only:
o Mirror Damage is by default set to on; set sv_mirrordamage 0 to turn off.
o Teams spawn in 1/3 of the enemies teamsize at a whack, spawn waves happen every 10 seconds
o Webbing removed
o Xenocide removed
o Dying makes you respawn in as skulk, always
o You keep all upgrades with each death, but if you were a larger lifeform you lose that
o You regain points that you spent on the lifeform
o You may only evolve once per life from skulk
o Evolving to another lifeform works like this:
oo 1 point to go gorge
oo 2 points to go lerk
oo 3 points to go fade
oo 4 points to go onos
o Evolution times are 1/3 of what they are in classic for all lifeforms
o Timelimit increased to 15 min
Classic Only:
o Alien res towers are now silent
o Electrification drains aliens adrenaline, cannot be stacked with more than one elec structure
o Evolution chambers unlocked
oo Linked chambers to a hive cost 10, Unlinked chambers cost 15
o Medpacks fixed
o HLTV fixed
o Stuck issues adressed (ventiatlation hive, fusion hive)
o Fixed +duck fades
o De-evolving to skulk costs 1 res
o Quake Jumping system implemented
o New Evolving system:
oo When you evolve to a new lifeform, you lose all upgrades
oo Costs 1 res for skulk to get upgrade
oo Costs 2 res for lerks and gorges
oo Costs 3 res for fades and onos
o Regen now flows over from HP to AP
o ex_interp unlocked<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think all this is already done for b5.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Combat only:
o Teams spawn in 1/3 of the enemies teamsize at a whack
o Webbing removed
o Xenocide removed
o Dying makes you respawn in as skulk, always
o You keep all upgrades with each death, but if you were a larger lifeform you lose that
o You regain points that you spent on the lifeform
o You may only evolve once per life from skulk
o Evolving to another lifeform works like this:
oo 1 point to go gorge
oo 2 points to go lerk
oo 3 points to go fade
oo 4 points to go onos
o Evolution times are 1/3 of what they are in classic for all lifeforms
o Timelimit increased to 15 min
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<3 most this changes, they would give new player a better feeling for classic mode. some things I have problems with:
- I think 4 points for onos is too cheap. Higher Lifeforms win the game for aliens.
- Removement of Skills, Xenoside is a nobriner, but webs are the only effective counter against jp. I suggest a minimum level for Hive3 abilitys.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Classic Only:
o Alien res towers are now silent
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A good commander can hear the gorge, that is building the rt, so that would be no real solution. My idea is that MCs have a silence area around them... but it's possible the wrong thread to discuss it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->o Electrification drains energy, cannot be stacked with more than one elec structure<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I cannot see any improvement in this...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->o Evolution chambers unlocked<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A huge change for a beta step. Do you not think it must be playtestet or something?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->oo Sensories cost 12<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you think that sensories must cost more, then prob because they are unbalanced compared to the other chambers. How about balancing first?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->o Marine RFK removed
o Medpacks fixed
o HLTV fixed
o Stuck issues adressed (ventiatlation hive, fusion hive)
o Fixed +duck fades
o Quake Jumping system implemented
oo Costs 1 res for skulk to get upgrade
oo Costs 2 res for lerks and gorges
oo Costs 3 res for fades and onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->o De-evolving to skulk costs 1 res
o New Evolving system:
oo When you evolve to a new lifeform, you lose all upgrades<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't like to see this changes. I think it's nice the way it is now.
o Evolution chambers unlocked<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A huge change for a beta step. Do you not think it must be playtestet or something?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It has been playtested, although not officially. Read <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72187' target='_blank'>here</a> to see all about it.
Good changelog, Forlorn.
- Removement of Skills, Xenoside is a nobriner, but webs are the only effective counter against jp. I suggest a minimum level for Hive3 abilitys.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are looking at this wrong... it's not just '4 points'. It's 4 points that are completey saved up, meanwhile you are a skulk the ENTIRE time. If you can get 4 point successivly and marines aren't getting a whole lotta tech and upgrades while fighting plain old weak skulks, then they deserve to lose at this point.
Xeno is incredilbly overpowered in that sense the entire game of combat revolves around getting a kill on someone, currently xeno is really cheap in that a person leaps around the courner, gives you about .3 seconds to shoot them (yes this is possible, and too effective), and you need a direct shotty shot which is the only thing that can kill them fast enough before they explode, removing all of your armor and I hope you have resupply. It requires teamwork, yes, but it's too good nonetheless. Alien teams that use this skill effectively totally dominate marines.
Webbing, too, will completely halt a game of combat. A good gorge or two that webs it up will be able to stop masses of marines, and a lv. 1 vanilla skulk will be able to kill several lv. 10 marines. It's not fair and the counters to webs are really hard to use and are quite limited. Note, I added something else to my changelog; sv_mirrordamage because GL spam and spam of all weapons should be discouraged. Keep in mind that mirror damge would be 1/3 of what you deal when it hits an enemy, because that's how FF in NS works to begain with.
Welders, also, suck at killing webs and are not effective at doing so at all in combat, since you must stand still or walk slowly forward with your welder out. I think out of maybe out of the few hundred games of combat I have played, yet have I seen one marine win once aliens get webs.
It's overpowered, pure and simple. It fits in regular NS as a unbalanced end all ability, but not in combat.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A good commander can hear the gorge, that is building the rt, so that would be no real solution. My idea is that MCs have a silence area around them... but it's possible the wrong thread to discuss it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Silent nodes will stop marines from knowing which hive aliens have from their comm listening for the node.
Also, marines can hear nodes through walls, and a comm who listens for the gorge is a skilled comm IMO; tracking a moving invisible target is pretty tough to do.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I cannot see any improvement in this...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do. Currently, how do you counter electricity?
Defense chambers! (Regen)
What about turrets?
D chambers! (regen)
What about mines?
D Chambers! (regen)
Or a select few projectile attacks, such as spit, bile bomb and acid rocket
Why not make one of the counters and uses to marine tech is by movement chambers?
It would be easy to do too; just make movement chambers drain energy at the same rate that the lv. 3 adrenaline upgrade refills your adrenaline bar.
And it would hit unlimited targets too.
Also, think about it; you would never see another pub game where marines lock down the entire map with electricity, because a determined skulk could still kill an electrified node by simply hitting it, pulling away, getting more adren, biting it, rinse wash repeat.
However, say you add marines into the mix to hold a fortified area (such as seige location) fades would want to avoid this, as would onos and lerks, because you need lots of adren to fight as these creatures, so you would need to kill all present marines before taking on the electrified buildings as well.
Meaning that electrified structures would do two things, which I think are great changes:
- The new electrified scturtures would be BETTER than they currently are, with marine support
- And they would be worse without marine support.
And focusing on player vs. player more so than structure vs. player is always a good thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you think that sensories must cost more, then prob because they are unbalanced compared to the other chambers. How about balancing first?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sensories are just really good right now, before their cost of 10 was justified as you couldn't get anything else after them and they sucked late game, but now you can build whatever, so the easy fix to make sure they are placed more carefull is to increase it's cost. Also, if you don't increase the cost of sensory chambers, then you limit the field use of the other chambers.
Also, I did some other changes to my changelog:
I got rid of the idea that marines no longer recieve afk; this patch would give a lot of benifits to aliens so we can't nerf marines too much at once.
o Acid Rocket deals 50
Combat Only:
o Mirror Damage is by default set to on; set sv_mirrordamage 0 to turn off.
Mirror Damage kills all forms of spam. It may be abusable; i. e. I run into your GL spam so you take damage, but this is okay in my book because it discourages spam even more, which is a good thing.
Thats true... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> (but now I understand it)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Xeno... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, it is very powerful and and also a nobrainer (you just press a key and hope to kill many mariens). But I think taking a skill out of combat is not realistic, because it is part of the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Webbing... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ye, I know. Once the aliens have webs it's getting really hard for marines. Only thing that comes in my mind is an idea I heard once, the "equipment pack", with all 3 equipments (mines, welder, handgranade) for one point. The welder would be more cost effective and hopfully more often used.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, marines can hear nodes through walls, and a comm who listens for the gorge is a skilled comm IMO; tracking a moving invisible target is pretty tough to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can hear the gorge moving and building, and you often know where the first rts getting build. I think it would not help the balance if two experienced teams playing against each other.
I would like to see it to counter "hearing rts" with Movment Chambers.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Electrification drains energy<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You explenation was missing... now it sonds better. Do you have already an idea about the costs? 30 is to expensive in my opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sensories are just really good right now, before their cost of 10 was justified as you couldn't get anything else after them and they sucked late game, but now you can build whatever, so the easy fix to make sure they are placed more carefull is to increase it's cost. Also, if you don't increase the cost of sensory chambers, then you limit the field use of the other chambers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well... I hope unchained chambers will not (never <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) be included in the game.
I prefer the idea of a good working "countersystem". But more about that prob later <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
O Electricity drains energy from the electrified structure. After 15 eletricities (whatever <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) the electrified structure runs out of energy
O Welder now refills electrified structures energy. After 5 seconds of consecutive weding, an electrified structures energy is refilled
O Electricity's RoF is doubled
O Electricity's research time is now 20 seconds
O The gorge is now free, and aliens start with 15 res each
O Skulk stats raised to 70/20
O Onos stats raised to 900/800
O Onos cost raised to 80 res in NS mode, and 5 in combat
O In combat, an evolution (gorge, lerk, fade, onos) can only be purchased once (no gorge before lerk, fade or onos, and no fade before onos
Fade cost raised to 3 in combat
Lerk cost raised to 2 in combat
Gorge cost is 0 levels (remember, if you go gorge you cant be anything else)
O Onos speed raised to 250 units/second
O Lerk stats raised to 130/40
O Lerk gestation time lowered to 17 seconds
O Lerk cost lowered to 20 res (to make lerks a viable choice later in the game, or if the aliens are losing)
O Spikes are back for lerk! It is a toggle in the first slot (like welder, mines and grenade) This makes them the first alien to have 5 weapons
O Fade speed raised to 260 units/second
O In NS, the fade costs 45 res (this works out because aliens start out with 15 res instead of 25, so the fade effectively costs 5 res more if you save from the beginning of the game
O Acid Rocket does 40 damage, and uses the same amount of energy
O Fade health reduced to 275/120
O Hives scale in cost depending on which hive is being put up: Hive 1 costs 30 res (now aliens can come back if they are losing), hive 2 costs 40 res, and hive 3 costs 50 res.
O Movement Chambers have a silence area around them (100% silent) and a celerity boost (10% per chamber..this stacks)
O Defense Chambers now heal a % (each chamber heals 3% health...this stacks with more chambers
O Sensory Chambers now parasite on contact
O All chambers now cost 12 res each
O Chambers are unchained from hives!
O When grenades are researched, marines spawn with 2 grenades instead of 1
O Catalyst packs cost 2 res instead of 4, so they are used more often
O Heavy armor costs 60 res to research and 10 res to place (each)
O Jetpacks cost 60 res to research and 10 res to place
O Both jetpack and heavy armor has a research time of 80 seconds
O Turret factories are no longer called Turret Factories, but (something to do with electricity...)
oo They are no longer needed to build turrets, only to get electricity
oo Turret factories cost 15 resources and have 1500 health. They are automatically electrified with all of the rules stated at the top
oo Turrets cost 12 resources and can be placed anywhere
O HMG magazine size raised to 180 (up from 125)
oo Only 1 extra magazine can be carried with the HMG
O No RfK for skulks anymore
O RfK is awarded based on class
Skulk: 0
Gorge: 1
Lerk: 2
Fade: 4
Onos: 5
O Weapons upgrades effect turrets
O Siege turrets are researched at the arms lab for 75 res
oo Research time is 75 seconds
oo Siege turrets can be dropped anywhere (like a normal turret can now)
O Heavy armor upgrades like this: 200 armor, 240 armor, 280 armor, 320 armor
O Mines now cost 5 res for a pack
oo In combat you respawn with 2 mines
O lots of bug fixes
There we go, my version of things
Lerk is too weak in NS mode right now.
Lerk in classic is more than capable of fulfilling its support role, just dont expect an easy time soloing againt marines who can aim.