What's Wrong With The Shotty...
kavasa
Join Date: 2003-01-05 Member: 11889Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-01-05 Member: 11889Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">...and how to fix it.</div> Or at least I think so.
I took some demos of myself playing combat, and then watched the parts where I was shooting at skulks with a shotgun at 1/8 speed. And I noticed that sometimes I'd shoot at a skulk that was pretty close, and I'd be right on with my aim, but the skulk would live, and he'd be surrounded by sparks, although there'd be a little bit of green blood. Allow me to reiterate that this isn't misplaced ego or whatever - I was watching at <i>one eighth speed</i> and my reticle was <i>right on</i> the skulk (I use the old 1.04 crosshair for every gun but the gl).
So then I went and started a local game, turned on sv_cheats, shot the walls from a medium range a few times, and looked at the bullet holes. Sure enough, the spread is random, and sometimes there are holes in it, or a side is weighted more heavily with pellets than another, or whatever. Skulks are small enough that they can fit inside these little irregularities. Additionally, I'd sometimes get kills that should have been woundings because the load happened to congregate where the skulk was.
So, how to fix it? Simple, make the ns shotty work the way real shotties work. Give it a consistent, predictable, and even spread. Easy!
I took some demos of myself playing combat, and then watched the parts where I was shooting at skulks with a shotgun at 1/8 speed. And I noticed that sometimes I'd shoot at a skulk that was pretty close, and I'd be right on with my aim, but the skulk would live, and he'd be surrounded by sparks, although there'd be a little bit of green blood. Allow me to reiterate that this isn't misplaced ego or whatever - I was watching at <i>one eighth speed</i> and my reticle was <i>right on</i> the skulk (I use the old 1.04 crosshair for every gun but the gl).
So then I went and started a local game, turned on sv_cheats, shot the walls from a medium range a few times, and looked at the bullet holes. Sure enough, the spread is random, and sometimes there are holes in it, or a side is weighted more heavily with pellets than another, or whatever. Skulks are small enough that they can fit inside these little irregularities. Additionally, I'd sometimes get kills that should have been woundings because the load happened to congregate where the skulk was.
So, how to fix it? Simple, make the ns shotty work the way real shotties work. Give it a consistent, predictable, and even spread. Easy!
Comments
The shotgun seems to do fine IMO. It sorta adds some luck to it.
The shotgun seems to do fine IMO. It sorta adds some luck to it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah because random damage and bullet movement makes a game fun
And rines would be........UN-nerfed....
<span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
There is things wrong with the shooty, Ive found while trying to reload, then you try and shoot, it doesnt, and u can keep doing that for 30 seconds and it still wont have any shells in the shooty even tho it looks like it put 50 shells in it.
could be done less random, but with some randomy
And what a fine moustache you have. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The shotgun seems to do fine IMO. It sorta adds some luck to it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah because random damage and bullet movement makes a game fun <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
owned
The shotgun seems to do fine IMO. It sorta adds some luck to it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah because random damage and bullet movement makes a game fun <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
probably the single most reason people are quiting ns.
The shotgun seems to do fine IMO. It sorta adds some luck to it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah because random damage and bullet movement makes a game fun <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
probably the single most reason people are quiting ns. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's the reason I've been gone so long. That and what's with the default crosshairs? They are this horribly transparent blue things. I can't tell where it is if it's hovering over anything lit. But I'd feel wrong doing something like modifying the sprites or whatever you do..
Random spread shotgun is stupid/counterintuitive/lucky. I've also been noticing inconsistencies with the models and hitboxes, a problem I never think will be solved. The models are just too bizarre for HL to handle I guess.
Also that reload bug and not being able to instantly fire out of a reload are a couple other beefs I have. Yeah. Anyway I'd love the team more if they eventually focused on polished details like that SOME DAY.
The shotgun seems to do fine IMO. It sorta adds some luck to it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah because random damage and bullet movement makes a game fun <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
probably the single most reason people are quiting ns. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then let's make all guns shoot exactly like the pistol ... -_- ...
If there is absolutely nothing random in a game... then the game gets boring way to fast...
Think of it as analogous to a misfire.
<i>Whilst it was unintentional, it:</i>
a) Is <b>completely avoidable</b> if you reload the weapon fully.
b) Easy to clear the jam.
c) Acts to marginally balance the most excessive weapon in the marine armoury.
d) Adds tension and gives skulks some kind of chance.
<i>The shotgun Costs 10 RP. For that you get:</i>
A weapon with no research time.
Lethal Functionality against ALL Kharaa lifeforms.
Excellent anti-building characteristics.
The fastest reload of any weapon in the game.
The most ammunition/damage capability of any weapon in the game.
1 Hit kills versus the most common Kharaa lifeform in the game.
I presume it will be fixed, when time permits. Since we all have real lives, it might take a while. Off the top of my head, here are a few solutions for you to try in the interim:
a) Find somewhere safe to reload.
b) Learn how to clear the jam.
c) Use pistol.
d) Use knife.
e) Get a team mate to cover you.
f) Stop rushing the hive and crying when you die.
g) Play kharaa instead for once.
Personal Note:
I like the current shotgun functionality, warts and all and I like the way that we currently have at least one thing to reduce it's puissance somewhat without simply tweaking ROF or damage.
<i>If you are going to have things like jams make it a feature do not balance a game off it. Look at bhop, while I like it and totally agree with it, it too is treated as balance which is <b>bad</b></i>
<i>If you are going to have things like jams make it a feature do not balance a game off it. Look at bhop, while I like it and totally agree with it, it too is treated as balance which is <b>bad</b></i> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read the my post again. At no point did I suggest that it wasn't a bug. But it does help balance the power of the shotgun, since it is a predictable, rather than a random occurance.
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>There is no randomness to the shotgun. At all.</span>
The pellets travel in the same path every time.
If it ever seems like you should have killed a skulk and it lived, and you see some blood then it is because you hit it but not directly enough. And if you don't even see any blood and the skulk/lerk is taking repeated shots, then it is the hitboxes of the said player that are messed up.
But again, there is no random pattern to the shotty. You don't have to believe me, but I know the truth because I've learned the pattern and I can nail sniper shots on the shotgun from crazy distances because you learn there is no pattern to the shotty.
Also, Kavasa, do not shoot the wall for a test... bullet holes aren't real. Go shoot a hive for the real shotgun pattern.
In fact, for a little about how your client draws things like decals and why the Aureal Soundcard is still finer that the soundblaster, go look at the Summerblue report.
You should really work on your understanding of the words "random" and "pattern." That was hella confusing.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not giving a skulk a chance if people know how to clear it. This is my opinion, if you want the shotgun to jam to 'add tension' to the game you should at least make it random. The fact that this is easily recreated and easily fixed doesn't make it something worth keeping around. All it does is **** newbies off.
p.s.: way to delete all the posts complimenting me on my moustache. I'm sure they represented a threat to freedom justice and the ns.org way.
what exactly does the spread look like, and what are some tips for shooting things with the shotgun that aren't in [close up] shotgun range?
So, there you have it.
Now, someone make a shotgun aim sprite that looks like the spread pattern and test! fast! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->