Interesting editorial on the 9/11 truth movement

moultano

<div class="IPBDescription">what attracts people to conspiracy theories.</div><a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/08/opinion/main2242387.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/08/...in2242387.shtml</a>

Rob

<!--QuoteBegin-Article+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Article)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Alarming, because if tens of millions of Americans really believe their government was complicit in the murder of 3,000 of their fellow citizens, they seem remarkably sanguine about this fact.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Nail on the head. This is one of my pet peeves. I really don't have a problem with people who think they've been wronged, as long as they're not just complaining because it seems to be the "cool" thing to do. If an American thinks that the government did something like that, then as an American, I expect that person to be charging city hall with fliers, at least. They're lives should be consumed by this. They shouldn't be able to sleep; they should be <b>driven</b> to unnatural levels of commitment by the horror of their knowledge. Anything less would be a disgrace to the lives lost in their presumed conspiracy.

puzl

People's general experience of life teaches them to not trust large organisations. The history of the Bush administration adds even more mistrust to the situation. People know that Bush was knee deep in Enron. People know that Cheney is knee deep in Halliburton. People take innocent facts ( e.g. the special treatment some saudi citizens were given on 11/9/02 ) and link their innate suspicions using spurious logic and unsubstantiated evidence ( e.g. the bulge on the underside of one of the 11/9 planes ) to produce conspiracy theories. If you want a better example of how people will swallow fantasy as fact just look at any major world religion. There are people who actually believe that Moses parted the red sea ( or god parted it on Moses's behalf ) and who believe that the statistically expected healing rate at lourde is miraculous. Some believe that UFOs have been visiting earth since WW2. A brief review of the <a href="http://xenu.net" target="_blank">good investigative information</a> out there on Scientology is a real eye-opener to how much people can be hoodwinked with baloney.

I'd recommend <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World" target="_blank">The Demon Haunted World</a> to anyone interested in the phenomenon of mass delusion and conspiracy theories.

lolfighter

UFOs HAVE been visiting earth since WW2, and even long before that. The extinction of the dinosaurs was probably caused by a UFO. And most of them landed here and never left. They are here, among us, to this day.


Yes, I'm talking about rocks of various sizes. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />


And people have every reason not to trust large corporations. A faceless entity that itself answers to faceless entities (stockholders) whose sole, ever increasing demand is profit at any and every cost. How did we ever think anything good could come of this?

puzl

Nobody mentioned corporations.

And how can an object that has landed and been subsequently identified be a UFO?

juice

I think of 911 like JFK... where was he shot from? 'clearly' from the front, because of the blood spatter direction. but that is misleading, and in fact, counterintuitively, the blood spatter direction corroborates the shot from the building by oswald. in 911, there are also many counterintuitive facts. but it took TWO investigations to put jfk theories it to rest... except even to this day it refuses to die. so i'm certain there will be another investigation into 911. not to mention hearings on iraq... with people's support garnered by 911 conspiracy theories.

with so much interest in 911 conspiracy, shouldn't the media be focusing more on the facts the conspirists support, in order to squelch the movement?

Cxwf

You realize that reporter is proposing that 9/11 conspiracies exist because the media trusts Pres. Bush <i>too much</i>? And that the media has spent too much time <i>not questioning</i> the Bush Administration?

Considering the media has been accusing Bush of lying since before he was even elected, I have no choice but to conclude that this reporter is delusional. His section on the "credulous style" removes all credibility he has with me.

lolfighter

You're right, nobody mentioned corporations. You said organisations. My mistake. Aren't corporations organisations too, though?

And lots of rocks hit the earth all the time without ever being identified.

Rob

<!--quoteo(post=1587565:date=Dec 12 2006, 12:12 PM:name=Cxwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cxwf @ Dec 12 2006, 12:12 PM) [snapback]1587565[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
You realize that reporter is proposing that 9/11 conspiracies exist because the media trusts Pres. Bush <i>too much</i>? And that the media has spent too much time <i>not questioning</i> the Bush Administration?

Considering the media has been accusing Bush of lying since before he was even elected, I have no choice but to conclude that this reporter is delusional. His section on the "credulous style" removes all credibility he has with me.
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I'm laughing out loud. You're right, you're right.

I think his theory one <i>why</i> the... uh... theories exist is wrong for sure, but the rest of the article (however much you can put back together after taking that away) still stands pretty well.

Personally I blame an abundance of free will combined with an overactive imagination fostered from books and movies like Da Vinci Code. A lot of our greatest stories have aspects of conspiracy in them, and some even focus on it. This seems to be because conspiracy sells, and I feel like which came first, the desire or the media which fulfill it is a bit of a 'chicken or the egg' argument.

In a world where the masses would follow mainstream fashion over a cliff, it's not too hard of a jump to think that if the fashionable thing was to believe that something more complex exists where something simple fits better, people will believe just that.


Hey- maybe the conspiracy theorists <i>themselves</i> started the wave conspiracy enjoyment in an effort to make their own works seem more believable and ultimately <b>take over the world!</b> Oh. My. God! We have to tell someone!

moultano

<!--quoteo(post=1587565:date=Dec 12 2006, 01:12 PM:name=Cxwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cxwf @ Dec 12 2006, 01:12 PM) [snapback]1587565[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
You realize that reporter is proposing that 9/11 conspiracies exist because the media trusts Pres. Bush <i>too much</i>? And that the media has spent too much time <i>not questioning</i> the Bush Administration?

Considering the media has been accusing Bush of lying since before he was even elected, I have no choice but to conclude that this reporter is delusional. His section on the "credulous style" removes all credibility he has with me.
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I think you and I must be watching different media sources. I don't recall any national network significantly questioning the intelligence that got us into iraq before the war. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

cshank4

Meh, I think South Park said it best about all these 9/11 Conspiracies.


One out of every four people are a retard. That one person has to believe the exact opposite of what DID happen, so that they won't believe that what DID happen DIDN'T happen. It's very complicated.

Cxwf

<!--quoteo(post=1587714:date=Dec 12 2006, 05:25 PM:name=moultano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(moultano @ Dec 12 2006, 05:25 PM) [snapback]1587714[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I think you and I must be watching different media sources. I don't recall any national network significantly questioning the intelligence that got us into iraq before the war. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So its not enough that theyve been harping on every action and decision Bush has made while in office, but they had to assume that all the evidence put out by the CIA in the months before the war were government forgeries as well? Otherwise they count as "credulists" for not speculating that the entire CIA was wrapped up in a giant conspiracy to fool the American people?

Yes, I think we must be watching different media sources.

TychoCelchuuu

<a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7501020220921158523&q=penn+and+teller+conspiracy" target="_blank">Penn and Teller have a good video about this</a>. There are lots of bad words, but there's plenty of good stuff in there too. The CBS article and The Demon Haunted World are also good sources. It's a mix of psychological stuff, etc. I think dwelling on it too much won't really get you anywhere; obviously people who are crazy like this aren't going to be convinced by rational arguments, any more than you could reason a religious person into being an atheist. The very basis of these beliefs is that you're not going to change your mind based on evidence. The conspiracy theorists pick and choose their own evidence, and religious people don't need evidence. As long as nobody's getting hurt, there's really nowhere you can go with this.

moultano

<!--quoteo(post=1587735:date=Dec 12 2006, 07:57 PM:name=Cxwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cxwf @ Dec 12 2006, 07:57 PM) [snapback]1587735[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
So its not enough that theyve been harping on every action and decision Bush has made while in office,
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What national network has been doing this? Granted I don't watch tv that much, but I haven't seen it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> but they had to assume that all the evidence put out by the CIA in the months before the war were government forgeries as well? Otherwise they count as "credulists" for not speculating that the entire CIA was wrapped up in a giant conspiracy to fool the American people?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The evidence was fine, it just didn't support the conclusions that Bush's team was drawing. There were dramatic errors in judgment. Major news networks largely ignored this and promoted the Executive's conclusions.

These days Bush is receiving a lot more criticism, but before the start of the war the climate was much different. Bush was popular, and networks didn't want to appear to be at odds with the president as we were going into a war.

juice

here's my editorial of sorts on the other thread on "911 facts":
it was locked, because no one posted in favor of 911 truth, and everyone else made very harsh posts. you see, i had a hypothesis that the 911 "movement" isn't actually as huge as people think it is. so i thought i might see if i could draw out any truthers on here. but no one came. so my hypothesis was not falsified, it was strengthened. honestly i couldn't have guessed it would go so well. thanks to those who participated.

you see? not so many crazy people in the world after all.