<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Aug 5 2005, 04:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 5 2005, 04:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Is there any way to revamp it and give it the same sleek look as the HUD?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's the same font, so... The screenshot's compression doesn't really help there, I'm afraid. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'll try and be more specific about what I think makes it look bad:
The border around the text looks bad and I personally don't think you should have the location names on the minimap they just clutter it up, and in any case what's wrong with reading the location name at the bottom of the HUD?
I think location names are important but that they shouldn't get in the way of using a minimap to guide you.
I'd prefer to see the loc. names popup on the map for waypoints (all waypoints currently in effect for your team). To give an example:
The Comm gives Squad 1 a WP to Atmos. in Tanith and Squad 2 a WP to Cargo. On your main map those two rooms will be dark blue with the WP in the required place and the location name <i>neatly</i> positioned on the map in such a way that it doesn't look slapdash.
This would get people to learn the important locations more quickly and to use their maps more. If you shout someone a list of map names and ask them to recite them back they probably won't be able to give you the whole list (this is effectively what having all the names cluttering up the map is doing as far as memory retrieval is concerned). If you give someone a waypoint and then later on in the game ask them to go to the same place they'll remember because it isn't too much information to remember, and because it has been given priority in the list of information they have amassed during a game.
This is all working on a principle explained in the book: <i>Positioning: The Battle for the Mind</i> where the author explains that in an over-communicated society you have to give the target's brain a reason to accept, and more importantly prioritise, information into its memory.
If you had a map that flashed up the location names only for waypoints given, new players (i.e. the ones lining up to download NS from the MyGames menu) will learn the more important map location names more quickly, and subsequent information will be accepted into the subject's memory as is required (as the player plays more NS games).
The only problem with this is that the Aliens would lose out (most players start by playing Marines, but still-). Maybe you should think about adding a <i>need support</i> call for the Aliens which shows up on the Map?
---
I know this isn't I&S, but I wanted to explain why I didn't like the location names and not just give you weak feedback...
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Aug 5 2005, 04:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Aug 5 2005, 04:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-tankefugl+Aug 5 2005, 04:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tankefugl @ Aug 5 2005, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No, they are created by hand. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Would whoever makes them mind posting a tutorial on exactly how they do it so that custom maps can have the same visual feel in the named minimap as the officials? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There is a tuto here, in order to place the names (and make transparent if you want) : <a href='http://mackila.com/vostutos/?s=viewtuto&tutoid=475' target='_blank'>http://mackila.com/vostutos/?s=viewtuto&tutoid=475</a> (in french btw)
All you need is Photoshop (or The Gimp or whatever enough "stronger" than Paint...) > it creates minimaps like this (for NS 3.0f) : <a href='http://teamsdz.free.fr/minimaps/minimaps_trans_2.1.rar' target='_blank'>http://teamsdz.free.fr/minimaps/minimaps_trans_2.1.rar</a> (transparent ones) <a href='http://teamsdz.free.fr/minimaps/minimaps_opaq_2.1.rar' target='_blank'>http://teamsdz.free.fr/minimaps/minimaps_opaq_2.1.rar</a> (opaque ones) I've written this tuto, if you don't understand something, you can ask me.
To look as the officials you just need to find the right font and the right size...
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Aug 5 2005, 05:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Aug 5 2005, 05:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-tankefugl+Aug 5 2005, 04:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tankefugl @ Aug 5 2005, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No, they are created by hand. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Would whoever makes them mind posting a tutorial on exactly how they do it so that custom maps can have the same visual feel in the named minimap as the officials? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As Tankefugl said, everything gets placed by hand. I was going to write up something for 3.1's official release, but I guess now is as good of a time as any.
My Photoshop abilities are self-taught, and as Tanke said, at this point I've automated so much of the process (with Photoshop Actions, Photoshop run via Javascript, and a series of self-programmed C/C++ executables) that any tutorial I tried to write would be confusing and probably a waste of time all around.
This is probably what you are really looking for though (All colors are given in (R G B) format):
I remove the default red background (255 0 0) and replace it with (0 0 75) for Anti-aliasing reasons.
All the Labels are text color white (255 255 255). Hive and Marine Start labels are Verdana Bold 11pt. All other labels are Verdana Regular 10pt. I keep all the labels as seperate layers and they all have this Layer Style applied to them: Type: Stroke Size: 2 px Position: Outside Blend Mode: Normal Opacity: 100% Fill Type: Color Color: (19 40 82)
The sematics I follow include: - Marine Start is always called that, regardless of what its actual name is. - Labels for Hive Rooms are always preceded by "Hive - ". - I abbreviate where it makes sense, especially when the abbreviated name is more common then the full info_location. - I try to make sure every res node location has a label, as do major areas of conflict, chokepoints, relocation spots, etc. - I try to make sure that the labels aren't obscured by Hive, Res Nozzle, or starting CC icons (since they are drawn OVER the minimap). This can take forever to get right, since you need to recompile your sprite between every change.
As has been mentioned, they can be turned off, and you'll be left with minimaps that look identical to what were released with 3.0Final. So with that said I will attempt to respond to your specific criticism. <!--QuoteBegin-Crispy+Aug 6 2005, 06:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ Aug 6 2005, 06:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The border around the text looks bad<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If I don't put that border around them, any label that is not entirely encapsulated by map-colored pieces is almost entirely impossible to read.
The labelled minimaps are in because people liked the cleaned-up versions we released for 3.0Final that had the colored vents, but constantly asked why we didn't label them at the same time. We (I, with feedback from the Devs and PTs) took time after 3.0Final's release to run through different style tests to find something that was both readable and was doable on a large basis (14 official ns_ maps in the game at the moment, and many of them get updated on a regular basis).
We added the ability to toggle them on and off as some people know the location names, and don't want the clutter. I personally switch back and forth, depending on the map.
The heavy viewpoint have always been a bit low. You used to be looking out of the lower neck basically; now you evidently have a gun-cam installed just above your belt.
I think I still have a bug report hidden deep within the bowels of the bug forums about this. Edit- or not, it seems that around May 2004 they wiped the bug forums or started deleting bugs from versions long gone. That's how old it was.
Yeah guys, show us Altair. So you can turn the names off the mini-maps optionally? Cool. I want new crosshair options too, omnipresent devs. I'm tired of only the leet kids having little orange pixel halflife crosshairs. I want them thingies, there should be a toggle or something.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Yea the default crosshairs are awful. First thing i did was install morphs small crosshairs for pistol\lmg\heavy machinegun and shaz's alien crosshair pack.
Shotgun and GL are good default crosshairs though.
sad... I am playing 3.1 non-stop with the consties but no one posted a image with me in it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Lordy+Aug 6 2005, 04:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lordy @ Aug 6 2005, 04:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> OLOLOL 3 POINT ONE SCRNEENSHOTZOR
defualt everything sucks
<img src='http://www.purework.net/~lordy/l/NS/ns3point1sucks.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> see look at the quality skill level of the people who get to test lordy actually has a k:d ratio
<!--QuoteBegin-tomes+Aug 5 2005, 09:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tomes @ Aug 5 2005, 09:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> arghhh i cant wait. I want to play 3.1!! plz release it now!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's just 3.0 with bells and whistles in terms of polish.
<img src='http://www.purework.net/~lordy/l/NS/ns3point1sucks.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> see look at the quality skill level of the people who get to test lordy actually has a k:d ratio <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like to take a moment to tell you to adjust your eyes to be looking at the top of the marine team, Yes, I'm comped.
<!--QuoteBegin-JacKnife+Aug 6 2005, 03:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JacKnife @ Aug 6 2005, 03:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> see look at the quality skill level of the people who get to test lordy actually has a k:d ratio <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why the H8 man? <3 makes the world go 'round!
for crying out loud if someone says turrent one more time i'm going to sit them on one so it can guard their insides.
the LMG crosshair needs just a few of it's pixels to be brighter because i cannot see it when the maps are properly lit.
the current half life movement physics of instantly killing inertia in midair is probably gonna screw with the skulks ability to bounce from wall to wall.
i think that probably the heavy armors will have to be scaled and not just shifted because they look like maybe they could not bend their elbows and knees without breaking the human's limbs.
the shotgun crosshair looks too similar to the motion tracking circles so whenever i pull out a shotgun and look around i'm like "AARGH! OMG HELP ME I'M SURROUNDED !!! ! ! ! !! ! ! !! ! "
Comments
It's the same font, so...
The screenshot's compression doesn't really help there, I'm afraid. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll try and be more specific about what I think makes it look bad:
The border around the text looks bad and I personally don't think you should have the location names on the minimap they just clutter it up, and in any case what's wrong with reading the location name at the bottom of the HUD?
I think location names are important but that they shouldn't get in the way of using a minimap to guide you.
I'd prefer to see the loc. names popup on the map for waypoints (all waypoints currently in effect for your team). To give an example:
The Comm gives Squad 1 a WP to Atmos. in Tanith and Squad 2 a WP to Cargo. On your main map those two rooms will be dark blue with the WP in the required place and the location name <i>neatly</i> positioned on the map in such a way that it doesn't look slapdash.
This would get people to learn the important locations more quickly and to use their maps more. If you shout someone a list of map names and ask them to recite them back they probably won't be able to give you the whole list (this is effectively what having all the names cluttering up the map is doing as far as memory retrieval is concerned). If you give someone a waypoint and then later on in the game ask them to go to the same place they'll remember because it isn't too much information to remember, and because it has been given priority in the list of information they have amassed during a game.
This is all working on a principle explained in the book: <i>Positioning: The Battle for the Mind</i> where the author explains that in an over-communicated society you have to give the target's brain a reason to accept, and more importantly prioritise, information into its memory.
If you had a map that flashed up the location names only for waypoints given, new players (i.e. the ones lining up to download NS from the MyGames menu) will learn the more important map location names more quickly, and subsequent information will be accepted into the subject's memory as is required (as the player plays more NS games).
The only problem with this is that the Aliens would lose out (most players start by playing Marines, but still-). Maybe you should think about adding a <i>need support</i> call for the Aliens which shows up on the Map?
---
I know this isn't I&S, but I wanted to explain why I didn't like the location names and not just give you weak feedback...
Would whoever makes them mind posting a tutorial on exactly how they do it so that custom maps can have the same visual feel in the named minimap as the officials? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is a tuto here, in order to place the names (and make transparent if you want) :
<a href='http://mackila.com/vostutos/?s=viewtuto&tutoid=475' target='_blank'>http://mackila.com/vostutos/?s=viewtuto&tutoid=475</a>
(in french btw)
All you need is Photoshop (or The Gimp or whatever enough "stronger" than Paint...)
> it creates minimaps like this (for NS 3.0f) :
<a href='http://teamsdz.free.fr/minimaps/minimaps_trans_2.1.rar' target='_blank'>http://teamsdz.free.fr/minimaps/minimaps_trans_2.1.rar</a> (transparent ones)
<a href='http://teamsdz.free.fr/minimaps/minimaps_opaq_2.1.rar' target='_blank'>http://teamsdz.free.fr/minimaps/minimaps_opaq_2.1.rar</a> (opaque ones)
I've written this tuto, if you don't understand something, you can ask me.
To look as the officials you just need to find the right font and the right size...
Would whoever makes them mind posting a tutorial on exactly how they do it so that custom maps can have the same visual feel in the named minimap as the officials? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As Tankefugl said, everything gets placed by hand. I was going to write up something for 3.1's official release, but I guess now is as good of a time as any.
My Photoshop abilities are self-taught, and as Tanke said, at this point I've automated so much of the process (with Photoshop Actions, Photoshop run via Javascript, and a series of self-programmed C/C++ executables) that any tutorial I tried to write would be confusing and probably a waste of time all around.
This is probably what you are really looking for though (All colors are given in (R G B) format):
I remove the default red background (255 0 0) and replace it with (0 0 75) for Anti-aliasing reasons.
All the Labels are text color white (255 255 255). Hive and Marine Start labels are Verdana Bold 11pt. All other labels are Verdana Regular 10pt. I keep all the labels as seperate layers and they all have this Layer Style applied to them:
Type: Stroke
Size: 2 px
Position: Outside
Blend Mode: Normal
Opacity: 100%
Fill Type: Color
Color: (19 40 82)
The sematics I follow include:
- Marine Start is always called that, regardless of what its actual name is.
- Labels for Hive Rooms are always preceded by "Hive - ".
- I abbreviate where it makes sense, especially when the abbreviated name is more common then the full info_location.
- I try to make sure every res node location has a label, as do major areas of conflict, chokepoints, relocation spots, etc.
- I try to make sure that the labels aren't obscured by Hive, Res Nozzle, or starting CC icons (since they are drawn OVER the minimap). This can take forever to get right, since you need to recompile your sprite between every change.
Hope this helps.
The labelled minimaps are in because people liked the cleaned-up versions we released for 3.0Final that had the colored vents, but constantly asked why we didn't label them at the same time. We (I, with feedback from the Devs and PTs) took time after 3.0Final's release to run through different style tests to find something that was both readable and was doable on a large basis (14 official ns_ maps in the game at the moment, and many of them get updated on a regular basis).
We added the ability to toggle them on and off as some people know the location names, and don't want the clutter. I personally switch back and forth, depending on the map.
I think I still have a bug report hidden deep within the bowels of the bug forums about this. Edit- or not, it seems that around May 2004 they wiped the bug forums or started deleting bugs from versions long gone. That's how old it was.
Take pictures of action and drama and stuff.
Shotgun and GL are good default crosshairs though.
defualt everything sucks
<img src='http://www.purework.net/~lordy/l/NS/ns3point1sucks.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
see look at the quality skill level of the people who get to test lordy actually has a k:d ratio
It's just 3.0 with bells and whistles in terms of polish.
defualt everything sucks
<img src='http://www.purework.net/~lordy/l/NS/ns3point1sucks.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
see look at the quality skill level of the people who get to test lordy actually has a k:d ratio <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to take a moment to tell you to adjust your eyes to be looking at the top of the marine team, Yes, I'm comped.
Why the H8 man? <3 makes the world go 'round!
<img src='http://ee.1asphost.com/Toldor/screenshots/nubcomm.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I know xD
the LMG crosshair needs just a few of it's pixels to be brighter because i cannot see it when the maps are properly lit.
the current half life movement physics of instantly killing inertia in midair is probably gonna screw with the skulks ability to bounce from wall to wall.
i think that probably the heavy armors will have to be scaled and not just shifted because they look like maybe they could not bend their elbows and knees without breaking the human's limbs.
the shotgun crosshair looks too similar to the motion tracking circles so whenever i pull out a shotgun and look around i'm like "AARGH! OMG HELP ME I'M SURROUNDED !!! ! ! ! !! ! ! !! ! "
I would like to see a crazy walljumper in a suitable vent though..