I like the idea of siege trials myself, although my experience is that often when we do find them that they're in a heavily turreted area. I'd like to see siege cannons nerfed somewhat, a few ideas:
* Give aliens a countermeasure that prevents siege cannons from attacking. (Perhaps sensory chambers jamming against siege towers)
* Make siege cannon damage structure only - does not effect aliens themselves.
* Make siege cannons extremely vulnerable. Perhaps not able to fire unless 100% repaired.
Also, I'd like to see anti-turret measures available to the aliens when they have only one hive. It's too easy to pin them in by reducing them to one hive and turreting hives 2 and 3 or putting a turret between the hive. It generally leads to a slow, painful end for the aliens. A few ideas:
* Lerk spikes (attack #2) do double or quadruple damage against structures.
* Lerk weapons #2 and #3 swapped so umbra support is available to override turrets.
Marine: Shotgun does way to much dmg, 1 shot kills a skulk, so if u actually camp and startle someone, he just shoots in the air, you always just hit him 1's then he dodges (or you somehow always just walk through him) and shoots you just before you get the seccond hit <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
And why is it aliens have to get up close too the marine, AND bite him TWICE when he can stand 20meters away with a shtgun and shoot him ONES to kill him!? >:[] >:[] >:[]
HMG = LOWER THE FREAKIN' DAMAGE!!!
NadeLauncher = gj :]
Heavy Armor = God Mode On
HMG = PLEASE LOWER DAMAGE!!!!
HMG = ...
shotgun = Lower damage, more spread.
Turrets = There should be like 3 turrets per turret factory or sum, the marine commander often spams the server with turrets that lag it to jitsy.
JetPack = Ok, could lessen the amount of force, kinda hard to control.
Aliens:
Lerk = The acid fog thing shouldn't do damage to the armor of the enemy, it should be tha aliens only thing to kill a heavy armored marine Since; even if you're in armor you still have to breathe, so the lerk is kinda useless when the enemy's get god m.. heavy armor. Spikes should do more damage, bite shoudl kill in 1 hit.
Fade = Useless... Blink dosen't work properly, he's good at one thing though, getting through trip mines ><!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> really, skulk is better than fade.
Onos = add some building damage, he cant take out 3 turrets without having like 2hp left and 150 armor. he should do more damage to heavy armors.
Skulk = he should do more damage to heavy armors.
Gorge = should have somekind of resource booster.
BUGS:
Keep getting stuck. Very well known bug <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
You can build things inside players and they get stuck if you do it.
Building health bar screwes up.
Maybe fix the waypoints a bit.
Sometimes you cant give players waypoints (orders).
Fix team balance. If 1 team has more players than the other, you shouldn't be able to join it.
You keep dying when you turn into an onos, really irritating. You just die out of nowhere.
Siege cannons can kill you. Why?
When you type "kill" in console you get an extra "death" added? Since we always get stuck in everything, we shouldn't get an "death" to get out of it AND use up all of our resources to get to our level again.
Add a voting menu, so you can kick afk ppl inside the ready-room.
HMG = BUG!
Marines have way too many advantages, hopefully fixed in next patch.
When in commander mode you sometimes see your hand and stuff like just goes weird... very very green.
Unfair + unbalanced :/
Most of the marine weapons are way too strong, should be lowered about 50% so they have to stick together.
That about covers up the bugs that I have encountered in the game (:
.. and oh yes... Why are the marines invulnerable (even without heavy armor) inside vents and such?
P.S. Game kix **obscenity**! Ownz CS like crazy! gj n gg.
Zc4R: Shotgun - SLOW fire rate, SLOW reloading, SMALL clip, INACCURATE, and it costs 20 RP. It better be fuggin powerful!
HMG - Quit being so redundant. I agree, tho, the HMG is still a wee bit too powerful. I think the damage/rate of fire values should be switched, so it becomes 11 damage/bullet 20 bullets/second. I want those marines CRYING for ammo!
Heavy armor - Fade who knows how to play+cloak+Lone HA marine w/ HMG = 50 marine RPs down the drain.
Turrets - If the marines can make farms of 10+ turrets all over the map, then the aliens must have been sitting around doing nothing while the marines grabbed all the Res nodes. Turrets are plenty expensive now.
Jetpack - Haven't seen this abused a whole lot. Maybe make the HMG/GL reduce how much fuel/power it has.
Lerk - Sporecloud ignores armor: NO. Perhaps you did not notice the HAs massive helmet? And part of the armor value is the supply of defensive nanites, which help defend against toxins and such. Lerk bite shouldn't be a one-hit kill. Because if it was, it would be the ultimate structure killer, doing 350 damage/hit. Plus, it would make Fades completely pointless. If you want a better spike attack, use Fade's acid rocket.
If blink doesn't work properly it's because you aren't using it properly. Try each one of these things in succession: 1) Select blink 2) Look up. Even if it's only a little bit. 3) Jump 4) Crouch in mid-air (The standard half-life "Jump duck". The HL hazard course has a lesson on it...) 5) Hit fire button.
Anti-structure onos: Again, you aren't using it properly. Get adrenaline 3 and use primal scream, then switch to bite. You do about 150 damage per bite at about 5 bites a second w/ scream on. Also, don't go after the turrets. Go after the turret factories. Get a gorge or lerk or another onos to attack with you and you'll do much much better.
This 'more damage to heavy armor' thing... I don't get it. If anything they should do LESS damage to HA because HA is of better quality.
Gorge - Already gets more resources than the average alien. Having a gorge doesn't actually increase the amount of resources your team is getting. If that were the case, everyone would go gorge at the start and begin hive 2 and 3 in the first minute...
Building health bar - You mean the advanced armory? It's already been said...
Auto-balance - Isn't very strict. Instead of enforcing completely even teams, it gives a leeway of 1, that is, you can join a team if it is no more than 1 person over the other team. I like it.
Siege cannons - Create a massive implosion and/or explosion that devastates the surrounding area. Might as well ask "Grenades can kill you... why?".
You are all complaining about stuff that works and its balanced.... BLINK: Aim for a clean plain wall, at a mid-high area of it and shoot! Onos: omg if you cant just pwn 10 turrets withouth dying you just need to learn how to use it and get some upgrades, you can easily jump over the turrets, get to the turret factory, you can take it out in like... 10 seconds or so? and all turrets go offline......Then marines are just a candy for them, always get adrenaline upgrade because energy runs low in less than 5 seconds, get redemption or regeneration (the problem about getting stuck with redemption is easy to solve....... DONT f-ckin build at the hive. umm and the sensory chamber, you can get scent of fear or cloacking. Never underestimate the power of paralisis, Jetpacking marines bothering you in the roof??? just paralize them and see em fall to the ground and break their bones, FUN <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Lerks: You want the team to make a bind for you? so you dont have to press 3 *click* click, press 2 *click* *click click click click click* cmon...... The spore cloud is the only thing that bothers the marines a lot. Marines: Hmg has been lowered to 20 hp per hit, if you are an onos you will also feel the shots, thats why it hurts so much...... Shotguns? They are a pain in the **obscenity** but hey...... Marines need somthing to counterback the cloacked skulks, the problem is that you guys think that the skulk is a killing machine and that you can just ran to the marines and kill em all..... Face the reality, skulks are not a killing machine, use dark spots or high ceilings to hide, when marines come in you drop, you chomp once, and then the marine is at melee range, they are pretty much dead. You need to use tactics for each class, once you discover each tactic for each class you will pwn them and you wont complain anymore.....
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
hmmm... I might as well add my complaints here too. As far as I can tell blink works like a catapault, making it unreliable at best, why not a strait line? It would make things sooooo much easier, and when I get stuck in something (be it a wall, player, building, or thin air) my energy doesn't recharge! I get stuck in a wall as a fade/skulk and I think "no problem! I'll blink/leap out!" but nooo, my energy bar just sits there! why is that?
- make the minimap useful. Show all marines and "blips" on it. Show where is north, south, east and west in the HUD.
- remove the siege guns ability to shoot thru walls. seriously. If that stays unchanged im not gonna play this mod anymore. Its the biggest frustration ive EVER encountered <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
- restrict the grenades. Its too easy for marines to kill whole turret piles within 10 seconds.
- Alien turrets seem to have no scaring effect on the marines. the projectiles are slow enuff to dodge them. they dont do any useful damage for the damage they take. theyre almost useful. just hinders the marines slightly to kill the resource towers and hives
- turn on friendly fire COMPLETELY. we want it realistic? then stick to your word. It sucks to see marines helping each other against skulk attacker by throwing grenades in front of each other feet and go "tehehe...i think my sock smokes". Turning friendly fire on wud FORCE marines to proceed MORE CAREFULLY, thus making it easier for the aliens to survive in fights. Maybe make HALF friendly damage against buildings, because else it wud be possible to kill an enemy base by just running in the middle of all the techspam and watching the resulting explosions. turrets shudnt do friendly fire as they arent controlled by players, and they shoot always without a carefulnes-script.
- give the aliens more effective long range weapons. They have NOTHING compared to grenades and HMGs. Even the fades rockets and bile bombs seem to have no real effect, but a fade gets killed by a HMG within 2 seconds. Something is missing here...
- the ability for skulks to use walls as tactic means shud be improved and better realised. Its too hard to run on walls when theres alot of edges in the way. Really slows them down and makes their ability useless. Lower the tolerace for skulks ability to walk over edges. just like a player walking up stairs a skulk shud be able to walk over edges without manual correction. Skluks are silent assassins. Give em this feeling!
All in all, this mod needs ALOT of adjustments for balance. At the moment its just like everyone describes. It sucks to be alien and not be able to stand a chance against marine and marine buildings as they dont have the firepower OR the armor without 2 or 3 hives.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
edited November 2002
dude, its balanced! But please don't give all the marines a complete commander-stlye minimap, this would be better than hivesight, unbalancing the game, just a you are here arrow and possibly an option to make the mini-map rotate would be fine. [edit] a full voting menu with a map vote, kick vote etc. would be cool [/edit]
Well, it's raining here and I'm afraid my measly 56k connection will fry out in the lightning-ridden thunderstorm, so I haven't read through the whole thread. Anyway, if it hasn't already been posted, I think the Heavy Machine Gun Animation should be fixed where you get a muzzle flash even when you have ABSOLUTELY no more ammo. Also, would it be possible to have an extra upgrade after Heavy Armor and Jet Pack that allows you to use a jet pack AND heavy armor, like in that sweet PR pic posted quite a while ago where the Heavy Armor Marine was jet packing around with some gun. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> It could cost a bombshell so that it can't be abused too! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well, got to run and disconnect. Later Natural Selection doods <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ohnos charge does work against buildings - I've plowed through many a structre. Its not an instant kill but a couple of seconds of ramming will take down anything short of the CC
Oh and the Fade is far from useless. I'll take my fade against your HA / HMG armed marine and come back to the hive with a new trophy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
to be honest, i dont understand all this crying about "aliens need long range weapons... more armor .. bla bla bla", it sounds to me as if many of you want to change NS so you dont have to adopt to its gameflow. Marines have to rely on firepower and aliens on stealth, so i see no point in decreasing marine FP or increasing alien armor to a point where they can face humans in straight combat and which makes aliens like marines in goofy skins...
IMO the gameplay is really good and well balanced and i hope that the NS team will ignore those voices and keeps on improving this increddibly cool and fun to play mod.
On some map (i hate remembering map names) a fade blinked about the high places of the map... shooting acid rockets at our base and blinking into the back of ha marines... he got so much a pain in the **obscenity** that i suicided 3 times as a "free" marine... (no stuff taken)
atlast the commander chosed to gimme a hmg and a ha.. and i could go after him.... bum bum bum there i go... as soon as he see me.... he goes "PUF" and is gone.... grrrrrrrrr..... they are overpowered he bombed me through the rest of the game....
I hope, I really really hope that Flayra <i>completely</i> ignores all your suggestions. All of them.
I played the Aliens heavily before the patch, and I have had so much fun learning all the different things I can do to irritate the marines in this time, it's been great. Now that I have started to play Marines I think <i>they</i> are underpowered. But I just need to learn all the cool things they can do to destroy the alien scum.
NS hasn't been out long enough for us to pick up all the different tactics involved. By the end of this week, commanders will have stopped trying to turret farm the map, and who knows what new strategies will turn up?
If in 2-3 weeks you still have the same complaints, I will admit there is a balance problem. But not before then.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
maybe he should ignore the "balancing" suggestions but the bug fixes and general suggestions should make it into a patch, you can't just look at the first post and say "All your ideas suck! the game is balanced!" when some of them aren't even about game balance.
Hey, I agree about the bugs needing to be fixed, but I just don't think there should be a big balance change when people are still getting used to the game.
Warm up time on siege and/or normal turrets (after completed construction, say a 5 second dely)
Possible reduction in HMG clip size and reload time (would keep damage output the same) to prevent spray and pray hmg fire to some extent.
Explosion on player contact grenades should be considered. They'd really help in Marine vs Onos. Which would give the marines some chance once aliens get 3 hives.
It'd be nice if player vs playerFF was on for grenade explosions to prevent players from just shooting grenades everywhere *though I know it won't happen*
In lower player games aliens seem to get a lot of minerals (in a 2v1, me being the 1 alien, I was always at 100 minerals and easily ran to all three hives built them up and won as an onos)
Bugs
Infamous stuck in building bug
Insta-death on too fast skill switching
Menu's sometimes leave a 'ghost' if you backtrack in the tree or can't afford building (alien)
I've seen some issues where Marine's won't get ammo from dispenser.
Not being able to select turret factory for upgrade as commander
Fade's blink could use some enchancement (mainly if it fails it shouldn't take energy)
Desired features:
Better mini-map (arrow pointing direction, dots/squares representing buildings (friendly), possible arrow pointing in direction of WP command)
Rotating Sulk model for wall climbing
Misc.
This was sort of a bug but it's only happened to me once, but I was given the command to 'defend target' and the target was myself, recieving no other commands after this for a while I was stuck with a big circle above my head. This was very annoying as whenever I looked up I couldn't see anything but it.
Overall I think the game is more balanced than people think they just need to adapt *Marine hint*Make sure you cover your turret factory from all sides so someone can't slip behind it an use it as a shield, also multiple turret factories means stronger defense
*Alien hint*Don't charge head first as a sulk it's just stupid. Always build at least some type of chamber at the start (def, movement, sensory). Finally your Off towers should about equal your def towers.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
edited November 2002
nades already explode on contact, and if FF should be on anything, its tripmines! Ive lost count of the times I ran straight into a wall of trippys (nobody but me has EVER used it as a landmine) with 5 marines just sitting there and killed none of them. Oh, and uh, the alien radio is useless, it needs to make your hive-sight sprite change color or something, some PT (coil I think) was telling me that at one time the sprite DID change, and you didn't have to look directly at a sprite to see the name/location information, why was this taken out? [edit] oh, and autoteambalance should switch someone to the other team if somebody quits because I still see a lot of 12vs5 games going on, if thats too annoying (building 20 def and off chambers and suddenly being kicked to marines and having to destroy what you made) you could have an option to pause the game until the teams are balanced, maybe it would be automatic, or the team that has less players could vote on a pause [/edit]
I find it funny that you all talk about <b>ignoring all these suggestions</b>. Come on, this is a mod that is to be played. If people dont like it the community will decrease. And the next thing happening is the mod dies. Like so many other mods.
This mod has INCREDIBLY GREAT potential. Its a totally new hybrid genre. FPS x RTS. Its NATURAL that its unbalanced. Now they need MANY oppinions on how to make this mod best playable and enjoyable.
I cannot understand how you say "I hope that flayre completely ignores all of these suggestions and only fixes the bugs" *slaps forehead*. Maybe we shud abandon these forums and just eat what they give us, even if its not fun at all. (if you now think what are you talking about, read the first paragraph again).
Personally, I have played this mod ALOT of time. At first i was marine fan, then i tried aliens and i somehow LOVE their freedom and independance. But its just not fair yet. Even if we aliens are supposed to depend on our stealth. It doesnt work that way yet. Maybe sometimes it does but stealth is not all that we need.
One example for "leet stealth trix": I was cloaked as a fade next to a door with a switch. I pressed the switch and made some marine enter the room checking who was there opening the door. I then walked behind him and when i thot the moment was right i started attacking him with my claws. But i had no chance. The heavy armor marine just turned around and started firing with his HMG at me. I was dead after 5 seconds of struggle. At this point i lost my faith in stealth and tricks like that. We just lack of the armor and strength to perform such a thing.
Seriously, if they dont work on further balancing this game, i just wont play it anymore. Not because im a moron and are always bitching, no because its no fun to me. And i can spend my time differently. So much to "ignoring those suggestions". Thanks
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
Thats why you attack in numbers! Killing a HA marine with a HMG is a LOT of rp's worth of damage even if one of you dies. And he wants flayra to ignore these suggestions because it IS balanced! Any more "balancing" would well, unbalance the game
Nice situation we have here. The one part sais the game is <b>balanced</b>, the other part sais it is <b>not balanced</b>. What do we do now? Just make nothing? This can only be solved through a vote if you ask me.
Attacking in numbers...yeah...what you see in hollywood movies, but in reality its an illusion. The typical server consists of 6-8 players per team. Normally 3 of the aliens are gorges. leaves 3-5 "agressive" aliens. And those wont always be at the same spot for some "spontanous" marine mug-up. Also it sounds easier to organize a bunch of players who you dont know than it actually IS. The marines have their commander "Move to your waypoint soldier. Attack target" "Roger that" *bratttattatttaa* The aliens are mostly independant individuals serving one greater goal. But their approaches are mostly on their own. Teamplay in multiplayer games has always been a problem. If it works good, its great. But if not then what. There needs to be the chance for BOTH SIDES to be able to achieve goals on their own without being forced to cooperatively aim for one goal. Sure if its about sieging and attacking a base there will automatically appear teamwork, because you see a teammate attacker a base and help him. Its a process that lasts longer than 10 seconds. And if it is MEANT to be the way that 1 on 1 the alien HAS to lose the fight then sorry but i just dont have the patience or the will to die and try again, leaving the enemy engage further to my hive, setting and turreting up an outpost, place siege guns and see my hive explode and everything in it.
I think someone shud put up a vote for everybody to choose whether this mod is already balanced or not. This shud be done by one of the dev team, i think. But i also think that its necessary. We need a result that guides us thru this issue.
- First off, I believe we should wait a month and see what happens. - Then I also believe the vote thing would be nice.
But I have noticed this too, there is WAYY more teamwork on the marine side, and I believe this is due to one little factor that aliens DO NOT HAVE. And that is a COMMANDER!
Think about it, who do you take orders from? Your CO.
So you do everything he says, he has an overview of the map, he has radar, he is the 'eye in the sky' so to speak. So he can cordinate attacks. Huge freaking attacks.
With aliens, you don't have any one non-questionable person to take orders from, so you have everyone with this "Can't tell me what to do" attitude and nothing gets acomplished.
What would be nice is get the aliens a commander, in form of the "hive mind".
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
Heh, I guess so, but on jarhedz (before it went back to cs <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> ) I could usually find smart aliens players who would always go in pairs when outside of a hive, we demolished the marines even after a siege assault on one of our hives, and don't say the marines were stupid, the weren't. I guess were going to have to play for a while before we come to conclusions about game balance, ever since the patch Ive seen 50/50 wins though.
I've noticed tonight that if you walk up to an Arms or Prototype lab while it is upgrading armor or what not that you can push the use button and it does the same action as if you were constructing the building, but it doesnt appear to speed up the research or anythin... Just thought I'd throw that out to be noticed...
The problem with "waiting a month to see how this game is really to be played before we have a conclusion if its balanced or not" is that by that time many players will have left the game just because they cant take it anymore.
I agree, this mod might have its OWN ideas and directives for boths sides how they are to be played. So basically they tell us how we have to play to win. But on the other hand if this cannot be realized in reality as it was to be, then we have a conflict. And the easiest way to solve a conflict is that both sides divide! And that wud mean -> player leaves mod => loss of community. And we all know that the first few days and weeks are the MOST important ones for a mod that just has been born. If a player is disappointed once by the mod its hard to get him back after a patch "hey all, come back, its much better now".
So what im trying to say is that the dev team might have to "sacrifice" some of their intentions, ideas and stuff how this mod was designed to be played to make it work for the MASSES. And i dont really think they have to sacrifice THAT much. Most of the players know what the advantages of both sides are. But if they cant find a way to PERFORM the things that are to be done to play it effectively, they will just be **obscenity** and lose interest.
The dev team shud listen to the community on how to make this game something that is fun to play. Let this mod develope itself. Means thru the community that supports it, thru which it stays alive.
That armory you were trying to get ammo from: Was it say... being upgraded? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> You can't get ammo from armories being upgraded.
As for stealth not working: Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. I've charged directly down a hallway as a skulk and taken out a HA+HMG guy. In that situation he was supposed to OWN me, I should of been a splatter 1/4 the way down the hall! Do you think that marine stopped trying frontile assaults because that one situation didn't work? Remember, it IS an RTS and on the other hand it's also a FPS. Unit vs Unit isn't always garunteed to work. For instance take Starcraft: A billion rounds of a single zergling vs a zealot: Who'll win? The zealot. However as you can see in NS sometimes the zergling/skulk can take out the HA/zealot. It's EXTREMELY hard to balance a game like this because you have to take into account the skill of people as units. No other RTS has ever had to do this.
I personally have found the sides to be balanced for once: maybe the marines are still losing a little bit more, but they're catching up in skill. I'm seeing just as many marine wins as alien wins and I'm just playing random servers.
Wow, I'm rambiling.
So what I'm trying to say is: Keep trying stealth now and then (I've seen enterprising skulks drop down from ceilings and clean out an enire team from behind with the nifty 'silence' involved. Or 8 skulks dropping down from the hive ceiling and ambush the group of marines walking together.)
As for aliens needing better ranged attacks: Aliens own at melee and marines own at ranged. Very very very simple design here guys. Don't try to suggest that aliens become different skinned/modeled marines.
Siege cannons are not impossible to take out with their accompanyment of mini turrent farms and HA+HMG guards (if you let them get this far.) Lerks with adrenaline or without can pepper the area with umbra allowing for skulks, the lerk, and even gorges to attack in protection. I suggest putting at least two clouds near the TF and then everyone charging for those spots for prime dinner spots for some good TF BBQ.
As for Siege cannons leaving trails: I've never seen a situation where I can't find the siege cannon. Their range isn't infinite and obviously located in the depth of a mini turret farm located rather close to your hive: which aren't all that hard to fine.
I know plenty of people who think marines are unbalanced and plenty of people who think aliens are unbalanced: You know what that says to me? It's balanced. (Game designer's law: If the same amount of people on both sides are whining it's all good <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> )
As for HMG doing less damage: Don't let it hit you in the first place <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
When you uncloak and start your attack, even as a fade, dance around and circle strafe. For all aliens except the onos the 'circle strafe' manuver is your friend. Sleep with it even.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
Well, I don't mean the devs any harm, but a smaller community is ALWAYS a better community. Let them go, and most of them aren't leaving either, they actually take the time to complain, surely thats a good sign! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yes, i agree, a small community might have its advantages. But thats usually not the aim for a mod of this calibre! It was designed with a lot of effort, more than most other mods and it aims for a widespread success.
Personally, i dont like sacrificing myself for the "commerce" (like i stated in my last post) but theres a decision to take. React now or wait who stays and accepts or not.
Comments
* Give aliens a countermeasure that prevents siege cannons from attacking. (Perhaps sensory chambers jamming against siege towers)
* Make siege cannon damage structure only - does not effect aliens themselves.
* Make siege cannons extremely vulnerable. Perhaps not able to fire unless 100% repaired.
Also, I'd like to see anti-turret measures available to the aliens when they have only one hive. It's too easy to pin them in by reducing them to one hive and turreting hives 2 and 3 or putting a turret between the hive. It generally leads to a slow, painful end for the aliens. A few ideas:
* Lerk spikes (attack #2) do double or quadruple damage against structures.
* Lerk weapons #2 and #3 swapped so umbra support is available to override turrets.
Marine:
Shotgun does way to much dmg, 1 shot kills a skulk, so if u actually camp
and startle someone, he just shoots in the air, you always just hit him 1's then he dodges (or you somehow always just walk through him)
and shoots you just before you get the seccond hit <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
And why is it aliens have to get up close too the marine, AND bite him TWICE when he can stand 20meters away with a shtgun
and shoot him ONES to kill him!? >:[] >:[] >:[]
HMG = LOWER THE FREAKIN' DAMAGE!!!
NadeLauncher = gj :]
Heavy Armor = God Mode On
HMG = PLEASE LOWER DAMAGE!!!!
HMG = ...
shotgun = Lower damage, more spread.
Turrets = There should be like 3 turrets per turret factory or sum, the marine commander often spams the server
with turrets that lag it to jitsy.
JetPack = Ok, could lessen the amount of force, kinda hard to control.
Aliens:
Lerk = The acid fog thing shouldn't do damage to the armor of the enemy, it should be tha aliens only thing to kill a heavy armored marine
Since; even if you're in armor you still have to breathe, so the lerk is kinda useless when the enemy's get god m.. heavy armor. Spikes
should do more damage, bite shoudl kill in 1 hit.
Fade = Useless... Blink dosen't work properly, he's good at one thing though, getting through trip mines ><!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> really, skulk is better than fade.
Onos = add some building damage, he cant take out 3 turrets without having like 2hp left and 150 armor. he should do more damage to heavy
armors.
Skulk = he should do more damage to heavy armors.
Gorge = should have somekind of resource booster.
BUGS:
Keep getting stuck. Very well known bug <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
You can build things inside players and they get stuck if you do it.
Building health bar screwes up.
Maybe fix the waypoints a bit.
Sometimes you cant give players waypoints (orders).
Fix team balance. If 1 team has more players than the other, you shouldn't be able to join it.
You keep dying when you turn into an onos, really irritating. You just die out of nowhere.
Siege cannons can kill you. Why?
When you type "kill" in console you get an extra "death" added? Since we always get stuck in everything, we shouldn't get an "death" to get out
of it AND use up all of our resources to get to our level again.
Add a voting menu, so you can kick afk ppl inside the ready-room.
HMG = BUG!
Marines have way too many advantages, hopefully fixed in next patch.
When in commander mode you sometimes see your hand and stuff like just goes weird... very very green.
Unfair + unbalanced :/
Most of the marine weapons are way too strong, should be lowered about 50% so they have to stick together.
That about covers up the bugs that I have encountered in the game (:
.. and oh yes... Why are the marines invulnerable (even without heavy armor) inside vents and such?
P.S. Game kix **obscenity**! Ownz CS like crazy! gj n gg.
Shotgun - SLOW fire rate, SLOW reloading, SMALL clip, INACCURATE, and it costs 20 RP. It better be fuggin powerful!
HMG - Quit being so redundant. I agree, tho, the HMG is still a wee bit too powerful. I think the damage/rate of fire values should be switched, so it becomes 11 damage/bullet 20 bullets/second. I want those marines CRYING for ammo!
Heavy armor - Fade who knows how to play+cloak+Lone HA marine w/ HMG = 50 marine RPs down the drain.
Turrets - If the marines can make farms of 10+ turrets all over the map, then the aliens must have been sitting around doing nothing while the marines grabbed all the Res nodes. Turrets are plenty expensive now.
Jetpack - Haven't seen this abused a whole lot. Maybe make the HMG/GL reduce how much fuel/power it has.
Lerk - Sporecloud ignores armor: NO. Perhaps you did not notice the HAs massive helmet? And part of the armor value is the supply of defensive nanites, which help defend against toxins and such.
Lerk bite shouldn't be a one-hit kill. Because if it was, it would be the ultimate structure killer, doing 350 damage/hit. Plus, it would make Fades completely pointless. If you want a better spike attack, use Fade's acid rocket.
If blink doesn't work properly it's because you aren't using it properly. Try each one of these things in succession:
1) Select blink
2) Look up. Even if it's only a little bit.
3) Jump
4) Crouch in mid-air (The standard half-life "Jump duck". The HL hazard course has a lesson on it...)
5) Hit fire button.
Anti-structure onos: Again, you aren't using it properly. Get adrenaline 3 and use primal scream, then switch to bite. You do about 150 damage per bite at about 5 bites a second w/ scream on.
Also, don't go after the turrets. Go after the turret factories. Get a gorge or lerk or another onos to attack with you and you'll do much much better.
This 'more damage to heavy armor' thing... I don't get it. If anything they should do LESS damage to HA because HA is of better quality.
Gorge - Already gets more resources than the average alien. Having a gorge doesn't actually increase the amount of resources your team is getting. If that were the case, everyone would go gorge at the start and begin hive 2 and 3 in the first minute...
Building health bar - You mean the advanced armory? It's already been said...
Auto-balance - Isn't very strict. Instead of enforcing completely even teams, it gives a leeway of 1, that is, you can join a team if it is no more than 1 person over the other team. I like it.
Siege cannons - Create a massive implosion and/or explosion that devastates the surrounding area. Might as well ask "Grenades can kill you... why?".
Anyways...
BLINK: Aim for a clean plain wall, at a mid-high area of it and shoot!
Onos: omg if you cant just pwn 10 turrets withouth dying you just need to learn how to use it and get some upgrades, you can easily jump over the turrets, get to the turret factory, you can take it out in like... 10 seconds or so? and all turrets go offline......Then marines are just a candy for them, always get adrenaline upgrade because energy runs low in less than 5 seconds, get redemption or regeneration (the problem about getting stuck with redemption is easy to solve....... DONT f-ckin build at the hive.
umm and the sensory chamber, you can get scent of fear or cloacking.
Never underestimate the power of paralisis, Jetpacking marines bothering you in the roof??? just paralize them and see em fall to the ground and break their bones, FUN <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Lerks: You want the team to make a bind for you? so you dont have to press 3 *click* click, press 2 *click* *click click click click click* cmon......
The spore cloud is the only thing that bothers the marines a lot.
Marines: Hmg has been lowered to 20 hp per hit, if you are an onos you will also feel the shots, thats why it hurts so much...... Shotguns? They are a pain in the **obscenity** but hey...... Marines need somthing to counterback the cloacked skulks, the problem is that you guys think that the skulk is a killing machine and that you can just ran to the marines and kill em all..... Face the reality, skulks are not a killing machine, use dark spots or high ceilings to hide, when marines come in you drop, you chomp once, and then the marine is at melee range, they are pretty much dead.
You need to use tactics for each class, once you discover each tactic for each class you will pwn them and you wont complain anymore.....
- remove the siege guns ability to shoot thru walls. seriously. If that stays unchanged im not gonna play this mod anymore. Its the biggest frustration ive EVER encountered <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
- restrict the grenades. Its too easy for marines to kill whole turret piles within 10 seconds.
- Alien turrets seem to have no scaring effect on the marines. the projectiles are slow enuff to dodge them. they dont do any useful damage for the damage they take. theyre almost useful. just hinders the marines slightly to kill the resource towers and hives
- turn on friendly fire COMPLETELY. we want it realistic? then stick to your word. It sucks to see marines helping each other against skulk attacker by throwing grenades in front of each other feet and go "tehehe...i think my sock smokes". Turning friendly fire on wud FORCE marines to proceed MORE CAREFULLY, thus making it easier for the aliens to survive in fights. Maybe make HALF friendly damage against buildings, because else it wud be possible to kill an enemy base by just running in the middle of all the techspam and watching the resulting explosions. turrets shudnt do friendly fire as they arent controlled by players, and they shoot always without a carefulnes-script.
- give the aliens more effective long range weapons. They have NOTHING compared to grenades and HMGs. Even the fades rockets and bile bombs seem to have no real effect, but a fade gets killed by a HMG within 2 seconds. Something is missing here...
- the ability for skulks to use walls as tactic means shud be improved and better realised. Its too hard to run on walls when theres alot of edges in the way. Really slows them down and makes their ability useless. Lower the tolerace for skulks ability to walk over edges. just like a player walking up stairs a skulk shud be able to walk over edges without manual correction. Skluks are silent assassins. Give em this feeling!
All in all, this mod needs ALOT of adjustments for balance. At the moment its just like everyone describes. It sucks to be alien and not be able to stand a chance against marine and marine buildings as they dont have the firepower OR the armor without 2 or 3 hives.
Jesus.
Well, got to run and disconnect. Later Natural Selection doods <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Marines have to rely on firepower and aliens on stealth, so i see no point in decreasing marine FP or increasing alien armor to a point where they can face humans in straight combat and which makes aliens like marines in goofy skins...
IMO the gameplay is really good and well balanced and i hope that the NS team will ignore those voices and keeps on improving this increddibly cool and fun to play mod.
On some map (i hate remembering map names) a fade blinked about the high places of the map... shooting acid rockets at our base and blinking into the back of ha marines... he got so much a pain in the **obscenity** that i suicided 3 times as a "free" marine... (no stuff taken)
atlast the commander chosed to gimme a hmg and a ha.. and i could go after him.... bum bum bum there i go... as soon as he see me.... he goes "PUF" and is gone.... grrrrrrrrr..... they are overpowered he bombed me through the rest of the game....
I played the Aliens heavily before the patch, and I have had so much fun learning all the different things I can do to irritate the marines in this time, it's been great. Now that I have started to play Marines I think <i>they</i> are underpowered. But I just need to learn all the cool things they can do to destroy the alien scum.
NS hasn't been out long enough for us to pick up all the different tactics involved. By the end of this week, commanders will have stopped trying to turret farm the map, and who knows what new strategies will turn up?
If in 2-3 weeks you still have the same complaints, I will admit there is a balance problem. But not before then.
Warm up time on siege and/or normal turrets (after completed construction, say a 5 second dely)
Possible reduction in HMG clip size and reload time (would keep damage output the same) to prevent spray and pray hmg fire to some extent.
Explosion on player contact grenades should be considered. They'd really help in Marine vs Onos. Which would give the marines some chance once aliens get 3 hives.
It'd be nice if player vs playerFF was on for grenade explosions to prevent players from just shooting grenades everywhere *though I know it won't happen*
In lower player games aliens seem to get a lot of minerals (in a 2v1, me being the 1 alien, I was always at 100 minerals and easily ran to all three hives built them up and won as an onos)
Bugs
Infamous stuck in building bug
Insta-death on too fast skill switching
Menu's sometimes leave a 'ghost' if you backtrack in the tree or can't afford building (alien)
I've seen some issues where Marine's won't get ammo from dispenser.
Not being able to select turret factory for upgrade as commander
Fade's blink could use some enchancement (mainly if it fails it shouldn't take energy)
Desired features:
Better mini-map (arrow pointing direction, dots/squares representing buildings (friendly), possible arrow pointing in direction of WP command)
Rotating Sulk model for wall climbing
Misc.
This was sort of a bug but it's only happened to me once, but I was given the command to 'defend target' and the target was myself, recieving no other commands after this for a while I was stuck with a big circle above my head. This was very annoying as whenever I looked up I couldn't see anything but it.
Overall I think the game is more balanced than people think they just need to adapt *Marine hint*Make sure you cover your turret factory from all sides so someone can't slip behind it an use it as a shield, also multiple turret factories means stronger defense
*Alien hint*Don't charge head first as a sulk it's just stupid. Always build at least some type of chamber at the start (def, movement, sensory). Finally your Off towers should about equal your def towers.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> - <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> = <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
[edit] oh, and autoteambalance should switch someone to the other team if somebody quits because I still see a lot of 12vs5 games going on, if thats too annoying (building 20 def and off chambers and suddenly being kicked to marines and having to destroy what you made) you could have an option to pause the game until the teams are balanced, maybe it would be automatic, or the team that has less players could vote on a pause [/edit]
This mod has INCREDIBLY GREAT potential. Its a totally new hybrid genre. FPS x RTS. Its NATURAL that its unbalanced. Now they need MANY oppinions on how to make this mod best playable and enjoyable.
I cannot understand how you say "I hope that flayre completely ignores all of these suggestions and only fixes the bugs" *slaps forehead*. Maybe we shud abandon these forums and just eat what they give us, even if its not fun at all. (if you now think what are you talking about, read the first paragraph again).
Personally, I have played this mod ALOT of time. At first i was marine fan, then i tried aliens and i somehow LOVE their freedom and independance. But its just not fair yet. Even if we aliens are supposed to depend on our stealth. It doesnt work that way yet. Maybe sometimes it does but stealth is not all that we need.
One example for "leet stealth trix": I was cloaked as a fade next to a door with a switch. I pressed the switch and made some marine enter the room checking who was there opening the door. I then walked behind him and when i thot the moment was right i started attacking him with my claws. But i had no chance. The heavy armor marine just turned around and started firing with his HMG at me. I was dead after 5 seconds of struggle. At this point i lost my faith in stealth and tricks like that. We just lack of the armor and strength to perform such a thing.
Seriously, if they dont work on further balancing this game, i just wont play it anymore. Not because im a moron and are always bitching, no because its no fun to me. And i can spend my time differently. So much to "ignoring those suggestions". Thanks
Attacking in numbers...yeah...what you see in hollywood movies, but in reality its an illusion. The typical server consists of 6-8 players per team. Normally 3 of the aliens are gorges. leaves 3-5 "agressive" aliens. And those wont always be at the same spot for some "spontanous" marine mug-up. Also it sounds easier to organize a bunch of players who you dont know than it actually IS. The marines have their commander "Move to your waypoint soldier. Attack target" "Roger that" *bratttattatttaa*
The aliens are mostly independant individuals serving one greater goal. But their approaches are mostly on their own. Teamplay in multiplayer games has always been a problem. If it works good, its great. But if not then what. There needs to be the chance for BOTH SIDES to be able to achieve goals on their own without being forced to cooperatively aim for one goal. Sure if its about sieging and attacking a base there will automatically appear teamwork, because you see a teammate attacker a base and help him. Its a process that lasts longer than 10 seconds. And if it is MEANT to be the way that 1 on 1 the alien HAS to lose the fight then sorry but i just dont have the patience or the will to die and try again, leaving the enemy engage further to my hive, setting and turreting up an outpost, place siege guns and see my hive explode and everything in it.
I think someone shud put up a vote for everybody to choose whether this mod is already balanced or not. This shud be done by one of the dev team, i think. But i also think that its necessary. We need a result that guides us thru this issue.
- First off, I believe we should wait a month and see what happens.
- Then I also believe the vote thing would be nice.
But I have noticed this too, there is WAYY more teamwork on the
marine side, and I believe this is due to one little factor that aliens
DO NOT HAVE. And that is a COMMANDER!
Think about it, who do you take orders from? Your CO.
So you do everything he says, he has an overview of the map,
he has radar, he is the 'eye in the sky' so to speak. So he can
cordinate attacks. Huge freaking attacks.
With aliens, you don't have any one non-questionable person
to take orders from, so you have everyone with this "Can't tell
me what to do" attitude and nothing gets acomplished.
What would be nice is get the aliens a commander, in form of the
"hive mind".
push the use button and it does the same action as if you were constructing the building, but it doesnt appear to speed
up the research or anythin... Just thought I'd throw that out to be noticed...
I agree, this mod might have its OWN ideas and directives for boths sides how they are to be played. So basically they tell us how we have to play to win. But on the other hand if this cannot be realized in reality as it was to be, then we have a conflict. And the easiest way to solve a conflict is that both sides divide! And that wud mean -> player leaves mod => loss of community. And we all know that the first few days and weeks are the MOST important ones for a mod that just has been born. If a player is disappointed once by the mod its hard to get him back after a patch "hey all, come back, its much better now".
So what im trying to say is that the dev team might have to "sacrifice" some of their intentions, ideas and stuff how this mod was designed to be played to make it work for the MASSES. And i dont really think they have to sacrifice THAT much. Most of the players know what the advantages of both sides are. But if they cant find a way to PERFORM the things that are to be done to play it effectively, they will just be **obscenity** and lose interest.
The dev team shud listen to the community on how to make this game something that is fun to play. Let this mod develope itself. Means thru the community that supports it, thru which it stays alive.
A few points:
That armory you were trying to get ammo from: Was it say... being upgraded? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
You can't get ammo from armories being upgraded.
As for stealth not working:
Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. I've charged directly down a hallway as a skulk and taken out a HA+HMG guy. In that situation he was supposed to OWN me, I should of been a splatter 1/4 the way down the hall! Do you think that marine stopped trying frontile assaults because that one situation didn't work? Remember, it IS an RTS and on the other hand it's also a FPS. Unit vs Unit isn't always garunteed to work. For instance take Starcraft: A billion rounds of a single zergling vs a zealot: Who'll win? The zealot. However as you can see in NS sometimes the zergling/skulk can take out the HA/zealot. It's EXTREMELY hard to balance a game like this because you have to take into account the skill of people as units. No other RTS has ever had to do this.
I personally have found the sides to be balanced for once: maybe the marines are still losing a little bit more, but they're catching up in skill. I'm seeing just as many marine wins as alien wins and I'm just playing random servers.
Wow, I'm rambiling.
So what I'm trying to say is: Keep trying stealth now and then (I've seen enterprising skulks drop down from ceilings and clean out an enire team from behind with the nifty 'silence' involved. Or 8 skulks dropping down from the hive ceiling and ambush the group of marines walking together.)
As for aliens needing better ranged attacks: Aliens own at melee and marines own at ranged. Very very very simple design here guys. Don't try to suggest that aliens become different skinned/modeled marines.
Siege cannons are not impossible to take out with their accompanyment of mini turrent farms and HA+HMG guards (if you let them get this far.) Lerks with adrenaline or without can pepper the area with umbra allowing for skulks, the lerk, and even gorges to attack in protection. I suggest putting at least two clouds near the TF and then everyone charging for those spots for prime dinner spots for some good TF BBQ.
As for Siege cannons leaving trails: I've never seen a situation where I can't find the siege cannon. Their range isn't infinite and obviously located in the depth of a mini turret farm located rather close to your hive: which aren't all that hard to fine.
I know plenty of people who think marines are unbalanced and plenty of people who think aliens are unbalanced: You know what that says to me? It's balanced. (Game designer's law: If the same amount of people on both sides are whining it's all good <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> )
As for HMG doing less damage: Don't let it hit you in the first place <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
When you uncloak and start your attack, even as a fade, dance around and circle strafe. For all aliens except the onos the 'circle strafe' manuver is your friend. Sleep with it even.
Personally, i dont like sacrificing myself for the "commerce" (like i stated in my last post) but theres a decision to take. React now or wait who stays and accepts or not.