I've never played KOTOR, but JKII is better than Academy from my experience. Academy lets you customize more, but the levels and enemies are just not as fun, and too easy. So unless you already have JKII and are dying for more, I'd say buy JKII or stay away.
KOTOR is an RPG though, so the combat's probably not comparable to JKII.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
The gameplay is a solid improvement over Jedi Outcast, but the storyline is just awful. It's just a way for the game designers to string together a lot of seemingly unrelated missions that you pick up along the path of developing as a Jedi. There is a central plot, but it's so unbelievably lame that I ignored everything except for the (blatantly obvious and poorly introduced) decision between light and dark endings.
Some of the individual missions have cool sub-plots and gameplay - one pits you against a nearly invincible Boba Fett in a sort of dynamic attack/defense game - although most are just about running around slicing fools with your saber. It's not like this is a bad thing. The saber combat is much better than in JKII, and you get your force powers and saber pretty much from the start of the game.
The ability to choose what force powers you pick up and what saber(s) you use is very cool. I'm a huge fan of any kind of distict character customization, and Jedi Academy does a pretty decent job in letting you custom-tailor your jedi to suite your style. I would have liked some more variety in the force powers. The light side is all about protection and healing abilities that lend themselves well to furious saber combat, while the dark side powers are comprised of ranged attacks and general evilness (choke ftw). I don''t feel there are really enough powers to mix and match effectively; all-light or all-dark is much more useful than a gimped hybrid. Still, it's a nice touch.
So, in short, if you want some great, albeit rather mindless single-player lightsaber action, Jedi Academy is your game.
Gah, I'll stick with jedi outcast until the price goes down on academy <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh yeah, REN AND STIMPY SEASON 1 CAME IN THE MAIL TODAY!!!#!@!@141oen@!!
Marik_SteeleTo rule in hell...Join Date: 2002-11-20Member: 9466Members
For control and graphics reasons I can say Academy is better on the PC than on xbox. If the xbox version is also lacking in online multiplayer, that's also another plus for the PC version. Either way I say KOTOR is the better game for singleplayer, and multi is only good with people you know. Read on for my reasons for saying this.
I see other people have commented on singleplayer, the mission structure, and the customization, so I'll talk about multiplayer. As a player of the entire series (even the first one, Dark Forces, before force powers & a lightsaber were put in) I can make a generalization about the entire series: it's been plagued by multiplayer that <i>seems</i> great at first, but you've been spoiled by the great long-term support Valve has for games. Lucasarts and Raven haven't supported the series as well.
Most of the multiplayer I played in the series was for Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2 and its expansion pack. This was before the quake 3 engine. It used its own proprietary engine. Multiplayer was absolutely amazing -- arguably more balanced than its sequel Outcast, and arguably better than HL1DM or TFC. Problem: once cheating started, it ran rampant, options to kick were lackluster, and Lucasarts did nothing to patch & fix the issues. You think speedhacking and invincibility are bad? Try hacks that take rocket-launcher type weapons, and make the explosions throw out 6 more such explosive rounds. You're talking chain-reaction level-clearers that would rack up absurd kill counts before crashing the game host.
Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast didn't suffer so much from cheating when I was playing, but Lucasarts got sick of people whining about balance. After people complained about a very cheap tactic regarding the "heavy" lightsaber stance's special move, they released a patch that fixed bugs & changed the three stances' special moves. Suddenly there was a cheap tactic for the "light" lightsaber stance*, players continued whining, Lucasarts gave up on patches, and multiplayer started stinking.
I didn't play much multiplayer in Academy, but I can say one thing: single saber seemed far disadvantaged compare to lightstaff or dual saber. Perhaps I didn't play with enough different people to see anyone with a good strategy for single saber. I certainly didn't stay long enough to see whether cheating is a problem, or see whether other balance problems or atmosphere-killers (read footnote) are still there.
*Further explanation: the move where the player would take the lightsaber & thrust it straight backward, parallel to the floor, without turning or looking was now a 1-hit-kill. You'd see players running around the entire map backwards, clicking the whole way, hoping they'd run into a player behind them and automatically do the cheap move. Seeing someone in the Luke Skywalker skin try to take on people bass-ackwards with the same move over and over was a real killer for the atmosphere & skill in saber fighting.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
Some quick clarifications:
Dark Forces 2 used the Quake 2 engine, I believe.
Single-saber does feel a lot worse than dual or staff - hell, dual let's you turn one off and use the light and medium styles in single-saber mode. Staff is a bit weird, and takes some getting used to. I always used dual orange sabers on both my light and dark characters.
<!--QuoteBegin-Surge+Jun 23 2005, 06:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Surge @ Jun 23 2005, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hmm... JK didn't feel like Quake 2... you sure? It managed to look worse than Q2, also. The FMV's were awesome though.
Jedi Academy was fairly lackluster, especially in presentation (human voices for all races, WHEEEEE!), but it managed to be fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> JK:DF 2 Was on the Quake engine. Yes It really pushed it
kotor1 was ok, but kotor2 lets you customize your character much better, and you can become much more powerful (although the storyline claims the kotor1 character was the most powerful). if you haven't played kotor1 yet, just skip it and get kotor2. if you buy them both and play them both now, you'll soon get tired of 2 and feel that 1 was a waste of money. if you plan on playing the kotor series, just get the sequel
edit: if you do plan on playing kotor, for kotor1 you will have to endure hearing "task at hand" like a bajillion times, and for kotor2, you will have to hear "echo" like a bajillion times. the writers got really lazy for a lot of those lines
jedi academy is pretty fun, but as others have said, online playing is out of the question because cheating is totally rampant and unchecked and you have to run a whole truckload of cheats yourself even to stay in contention. if you log into mutliplayer without cheats up your sleeves you will not get kills unless you use some of the tactics mentioned earlier with the heavy saber stances and special moves, which are pretty much 1 hit kill. even then, you'll be dying 5 to 10 times for every 1 kill you make. if you like playing single player and slicing up troopers and dark jedi, then go ahead and pick up a 2nd hand copy; you won't need a manual, and unless you plan to scour the net for massive cheats, you won't need multiplayer. one unsatisfying thing about single player is that the dark jedi turns on temporary invulnerabilty (dark rage) almost all the time, taking the fun out of lightsaber duels. the moment you are to kill them, zing! they're invulnerable for 10 seconds. highly annoying
Marik_SteeleTo rule in hell...Join Date: 2002-11-20Member: 9466Members
To clarify: Dark Forces 1 used an engine that *may* have originally been the Doom engine, but if it was, it had so many modifications & additions it seems ID didn't even try suing them for it.
Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2 did *not* use the quake 2 engine. According to <a href='http://www.avault.com/featured/jedi_knight/interview3.asp' target='_blank'>this interview</a>, it was done completely from scratch. And according to <a href='http://shamusworld.gotdns.org/df2mod/' target='_blank'>one mod-in-progress site I stumbled upon</a>, one of the biggest obstacles in the way of converting it into a Jedi Academy mod is... <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The DF2 engine is a completely different animal from the Q3A engine—never mind the models, animation, texturing and scripting. The original DF2 engine allowed for rooms that were larger on the inside than they were on the outside and its skybox model didn’t render things that were behind sky textures. This allowed the original level designers to be somewhat sloppy with their geometry. ;-)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Both Jedi Knight: Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy use the Quake 3 engine.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Alright that explains why JO felt so slow to me. Q3 engine was a bad move by lucasarts.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
eh it's what they chose at the time and the JK games were pretty good. Not how I would have made them but they were still fun to play
Comments
KOTOR is an RPG though, so the combat's probably not comparable to JKII.
Some of the individual missions have cool sub-plots and gameplay - one pits you against a nearly invincible Boba Fett in a sort of dynamic attack/defense game - although most are just about running around slicing fools with your saber. It's not like this is a bad thing. The saber combat is much better than in JKII, and you get your force powers and saber pretty much from the start of the game.
The ability to choose what force powers you pick up and what saber(s) you use is very cool. I'm a huge fan of any kind of distict character customization, and Jedi Academy does a pretty decent job in letting you custom-tailor your jedi to suite your style. I would have liked some more variety in the force powers. The light side is all about protection and healing abilities that lend themselves well to furious saber combat, while the dark side powers are comprised of ranged attacks and general evilness (choke ftw). I don''t feel there are really enough powers to mix and match effectively; all-light or all-dark is much more useful than a gimped hybrid. Still, it's a nice touch.
So, in short, if you want some great, albeit rather mindless single-player lightsaber action, Jedi Academy is your game.
Oh yeah, REN AND STIMPY SEASON 1 CAME IN THE MAIL TODAY!!!#!@!@141oen@!!
I see other people have commented on singleplayer, the mission structure, and the customization, so I'll talk about multiplayer. As a player of the entire series (even the first one, Dark Forces, before force powers & a lightsaber were put in) I can make a generalization about the entire series: it's been plagued by multiplayer that <i>seems</i> great at first, but you've been spoiled by the great long-term support Valve has for games. Lucasarts and Raven haven't supported the series as well.
Most of the multiplayer I played in the series was for Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2 and its expansion pack. This was before the quake 3 engine. It used its own proprietary engine. Multiplayer was absolutely amazing -- arguably more balanced than its sequel Outcast, and arguably better than HL1DM or TFC. Problem: once cheating started, it ran rampant, options to kick were lackluster, and Lucasarts did nothing to patch & fix the issues. You think speedhacking and invincibility are bad? Try hacks that take rocket-launcher type weapons, and make the explosions throw out 6 more such explosive rounds. You're talking chain-reaction level-clearers that would rack up absurd kill counts before crashing the game host.
Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast didn't suffer so much from cheating when I was playing, but Lucasarts got sick of people whining about balance. After people complained about a very cheap tactic regarding the "heavy" lightsaber stance's special move, they released a patch that fixed bugs & changed the three stances' special moves. Suddenly there was a cheap tactic for the "light" lightsaber stance*, players continued whining, Lucasarts gave up on patches, and multiplayer started stinking.
I didn't play much multiplayer in Academy, but I can say one thing: single saber seemed far disadvantaged compare to lightstaff or dual saber. Perhaps I didn't play with enough different people to see anyone with a good strategy for single saber. I certainly didn't stay long enough to see whether cheating is a problem, or see whether other balance problems or atmosphere-killers (read footnote) are still there.
*Further explanation: the move where the player would take the lightsaber & thrust it straight backward, parallel to the floor, without turning or looking was now a 1-hit-kill. You'd see players running around the entire map backwards, clicking the whole way, hoping they'd run into a player behind them and automatically do the cheap move. Seeing someone in the Luke Skywalker skin try to take on people bass-ackwards with the same move over and over was a real killer for the atmosphere & skill in saber fighting.
Dark Forces 2 used the Quake 2 engine, I believe.
Single-saber does feel a lot worse than dual or staff - hell, dual let's you turn one off and use the light and medium styles in single-saber mode. Staff is a bit weird, and takes some getting used to. I always used dual orange sabers on both my light and dark characters.
Jedi Academy was fairly lackluster, especially in presentation (human voices for all races, WHEEEEE!), but it managed to be fun.
Jedi Academy was fairly lackluster, especially in presentation (human voices for all races, WHEEEEE!), but it managed to be fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
JK:DF 2
Was on the Quake engine. Yes
It really pushed it
Ha! I completely forgot that part. Yeah, yet another minor gripe.
Yeah, I was wondering if it might be Q1 and not Q2 . . . I knew it was some kind of id engine, just not which one.
JO was on the Q2 engine...
I am not sure what engine JA is on, I would assume Q3... or Q2.
edit: if you do plan on playing kotor, for kotor1 you will have to endure hearing "task at hand" like a bajillion times, and for kotor2, you will have to hear "echo" like a bajillion times. the writers got really lazy for a lot of those lines
jedi academy is pretty fun, but as others have said, online playing is out of the question because cheating is totally rampant and unchecked and you have to run a whole truckload of cheats yourself even to stay in contention. if you log into mutliplayer without cheats up your sleeves you will not get kills unless you use some of the tactics mentioned earlier with the heavy saber stances and special moves, which are pretty much 1 hit kill. even then, you'll be dying 5 to 10 times for every 1 kill you make. if you like playing single player and slicing up troopers and dark jedi, then go ahead and pick up a 2nd hand copy; you won't need a manual, and unless you plan to scour the net for massive cheats, you won't need multiplayer. one unsatisfying thing about single player is that the dark jedi turns on temporary invulnerabilty (dark rage) almost all the time, taking the fun out of lightsaber duels. the moment you are to kill them, zing! they're invulnerable for 10 seconds. highly annoying
Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2 did *not* use the quake 2 engine. According to <a href='http://www.avault.com/featured/jedi_knight/interview3.asp' target='_blank'>this interview</a>, it was done completely from scratch. And according to <a href='http://shamusworld.gotdns.org/df2mod/' target='_blank'>one mod-in-progress site I stumbled upon</a>, one of the biggest obstacles in the way of converting it into a Jedi Academy mod is...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The DF2 engine is a completely different animal from the Q3A engine—never mind the models, animation, texturing and scripting. The original DF2 engine allowed for rooms that were larger on the inside than they were on the outside and its skybox model didn’t render things that were behind sky textures. This allowed the original level designers to be somewhat sloppy with their geometry. ;-)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Both Jedi Knight: Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy use the Quake 3 engine.
eh it's what they chose at the time and the JK games were pretty good. Not how I would have made them but they were still fun to play