moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited June 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-V MAN+Jun 23 2005, 04:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (V MAN @ Jun 23 2005, 04:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is called compulsory purchase here in the UK, we've have it for ages. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Eminent domain has existed as long as this country in the US too, its only in the last 50 years or so that it has started to be used for commercial development and other things not directly related to creation of public property. That's what the lawsuit was about.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cold NiTe+Jun 23 2005, 05:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cold NiTe @ Jun 23 2005, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Comprox+Jun 23 2005, 04:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Comprox @ Jun 23 2005, 04:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Jun 23 2005, 12:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Jun 23 2005, 12:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You don't have that right, what part about that don't you understand?
Don't like the US, move out, easy as that... oh wait.. then you won't have the same rights and/or freedoms. Double standards are easy to name aren't they? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Welcome to Canada, would you like nicer people with your order of freedom? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh no you don't. Don't even try. You and Swiftspear can have fun in your land of frost and moose. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You've obviously never had Sugar Frosted Moose, you SOUTHERNER. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Comprox+Jun 23 2005, 05:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Comprox @ Jun 23 2005, 05:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Welcome to Canada, would you like nicer people with your order of freedom? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Be realistic, there are people like me up here.
<!--QuoteBegin-lolfighter+Jun 23 2005, 02:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Jun 23 2005, 02:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Cyndane, you are not fit to debate this topic. You do not understand the underlying emotions in becoming attached to a place. So you're of a nomadic spirit - fine. But most humans are territorial. The majority of human cultures settled down instead of being nomadic. If you cannot understand the basic human need for a place to call your own, you lack the necessary knowledge to debate this topic. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well since I am so loved here at the moment I might as well take the time to refute the statements while I am at work. On to the first one.l
First off, I have been very bodily thrown out of my "home" by the government, it wasn't the united states government, so there was no compensation involved, it was leave or you are dead(Not joking). Personally, since I didn't have a choice in the matter and I was only fourteen at the time. Do I miss "home", of course I do I was born there, why wouldn't I.
However, I have found a new home, and I love it, I wouldn't leave the US for a permanet stay any time soon. I enjoy being able to do as I please and not have to worry about some idiot over my shoulder attempting to kill me.
I am willing to bet all of you that said "omg don't give them money to move" have never had to move in your life like that. You moved because your parents told you to, and there was no other reason, perhaps it was financial, had to cut back or perhaps your parents were making more and optioned to get a nicer home, either way you have moved on. You have a new "home" and you have memories there, do you miss it? Probably, most people grow overly attatched to material things as quite clearly evidenced by this thread.
So before you even begin to cast judgement how about you step outside your little soap box of a view of the world and wake up to reality. What the article was referring it is as nice as it gets for taking away someones home.
<!--QuoteBegin-lolfighter+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You are a regular of the Discussions forum. Would you consider it good form to debate a topic without knowing about it? Assume a discussion about AIDS: If somebody claimed that it's completely harmless, wouldn't this be offensive to the whole discussion?
Please, do us all a favour: Either acknowledge and accept that people object to being wantonly thrown out of their homes, or stop posting in this thread. Thank you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am going to break this down a little bit, because there are a few points I wish to make.
Yes, I am very much a regular of the discussions forum, and you know what I find out in there? No one has any common sense to listen to someone who has first hand experience about the topic at hand, obviously this is the case here as well.
I agree, not knowing about the topic is very bad form to try to debate about it, however I fall outside of that little statement you attempted to pass, I prefer to keep my personal life personal, however when you start making blanket attacks on my person someone feels obligated to give you the straight of it.
Anyone who would even bother comparing this topic to AIDS really needs to step back and take a deep breath the two have nothing to do with each other and in the case of the person may say it isn't "bad" we can back that up with lots of evidence that it is, say.. namely.. death?
Does losing ones home kill them? No.
The only thing you really have to argue with me on this one is your personal opinion, and mine differs so apparently I have no knowledge of the subject, yet clearly I do.
I don't agree that people are being "wantonly" thrown out of their homes, if that was the case I wouldn't want to live here. Which is why you don't really hear much of this going on, because the governments in question do more then adequately compensate people for their loss, one of the major reasons I like how sympathetic this government is compared to where I was born.
So, you all may now just bugger off and keep your closed minded views to yourselves. When the few of you grow up that need it, you might just appreciate how wonderful this country is, even if we have an idiot running it.
As always when I choose to draw a parrallel, it gets completely misunderstood. I should know better.
I mentioned AIDS as a completely random example. I think we can all agree that it is anything but harmless, which was my main point: If somebody claims it to be harmless, you can say without doubt that they know nothing of the subject. The consequences of AIDS and being thrown out of your home are in no way comparable, and I never did make a comparison.
So you got thrown out of your home and didn't mind. As I already said, fine for you. But realize that other people very much DO mind. Calling me or anyone else immature is not going to change that. Feel free to continue lambasting us for that. In a <i>different</i> thread. THIS thread is about people who feel attached to their homes. If we weren't, there would be no need for the thread nor for the lawsuit it's about. I suggest a title along the lines of "Materialism: It's gone too far" or "Grow Up: Your home is not your life."
You say that I am arguing personal opinion with you, and I very much agree. But you seem to believe that you and you alone have the correct opinion.
This entire argument is pointless, you are debating opinion and not fact. Cyndane will NEVER change her mind and none of you will EVER change yours, so why don't you all just shut up and make friendship bracelets instead of getting all whiny because someone disagrees with you and you can't change it?
Sorry, but "it is ok because it is worse elsewhere" does not get very far as an argument. Rape and murder are serious crimes; whether or not genocides happen elsewhere is irrelevent.
The facts of life are that most governments have the ability to acquire private land against the owner's wishes (duh, they have an army). The variation is what they have to give the owner, and what they can use the land for. I, personally, could agree to fair market value and to remain public property for at least (say) five years.
The supreme court judgement just clarified that, in the US, the latter condition does not exist. For those that want it, convince your elected representatives to make it a law. Good luck with that and all.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but you do agree people are far too materialistic today<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes and no. There are two things that often get classed as materialism. I'm going to call them monetary materialism and sentimental materialism, for the sake of argument. I consider the formal the bad kind: having stuff for the sake of having stuff. The latter is a little different. My house is nothing impressive, but is has been on the receiving end of a lot of my time and energy. Forget the money, you can't have it.
I'm not saying I didn't care that I got thrown out, I am saying I know better then to grow attached to materialistic things not matter how sentimental they are.
Mine isn't the only opinion nor is it always the right one, but you do agree people are far too materialistic today.
Which is the only point I was trying to make.
Side note: Friendship rings are better then the bracelets.. but I need someone to be my BFF.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Jun 23 2005, 05:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Jun 23 2005, 05:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm not saying I didn't care that I got thrown out, I am saying I know better then to grow attached to materialistic things not matter how sentimental they are.
Mine isn't the only opinion nor is it always the right one, but you do agree people are far too materialistic today.
Which is the only point I was trying to make.
Side note: Friendship rings are better then the bracelets.. but I need someone to be my BFF. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its not the physical wood, drywall etc that people get attached to. Its the way it smells that just makes it feel like home. Its the way it reminds you of all of the eras of your life, and keeps your memories close to you. Its the way you've turned it into a perfect place for you to live.
I don't think you've got this materialistic thing thought through very well. It is materialistic to think that someone can be adequately monetarily compensated for losing a sense of contentment, comfort, familiarity, and the memories that go along with owning and living in a home. The fact that some commercial entity can pay off a politician to demolish people's <i>homes</i>, not just houses, <i>homes</i> is obscene.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
Cyndane, quick question, why would you care so much for a friendship ring if it is nothing but an object? aren't the thoughts and feelings in your head enough for you?
This is more about being territorial than being materialistic, though. And territorial we are, just like a lot of animals. It's a basic instinct, one that most of us can't just ignore. Now, I don't say that being slave to your instincts is a desirable state, but it's not a good idea to force us to act against them as drastically as this. A gradual move away from territorialism is desirable.
Most processes work better when done in slow increments rather than in one go. Incremental drug withdrawal has higher success rates than cold turkey.
Or for a parrallel that gives ample opportunity for misunderstanding: If you take a fish out of the water and expect it to breathe air, it'll just suffocate. The process of developing lungs took millions of years. I'm not saying we should take millions of years to give up our territorial ways, but give us a little time to adapt to this brave new world, okay?
@Neonspyder: That was called a joke... sometimes I am sarcastic and it doesn't translate very well over the internet via text format.
<!--QuoteBegin-Moultano+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Moultano)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think you've got this materialistic thing thought through very well. It is materialistic to think that someone can be adequately monetarily compensated for losing a sense of contentment, comfort, familiarity, and the memories that go along with owning and living in a home. The fact that some commercial entity can pay off a politician to demolish people's homes, not just houses, homes is obscene. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lumping this in with this quote from fighter. <!--QuoteBegin-lolfighter+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is more about being territorial than being materialistic, though. And territorial we are, just like a lot of animals. It's a basic instinct, one that most of us can't just ignore. Now, I don't say that being slave to your instincts is a desirable state, but it's not a good idea to force us to act against them as drastically as this. A gradual move away from territorialism is desirable. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it is being more territorial then materialistic as well, but that doesn't change the fact you are associating strong feelings with a place you can easily make more memories from and still remember the good times at the orginal place or another place.
lolfighter again, seems quite adapt at hitting things on the head with how I am thinking at the moment, it may take a few of you a while to adapt to your every changing environment, but for some of us, it isn't that hard. Especially being forced to at a young age, with no reason given at the time.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited June 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Jun 23 2005, 06:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Jun 23 2005, 06:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think it is being more territorial then materialistic as well, but that doesn't change the fact you are associating strong feelings with a place you can easily make more memories from and still remember the good times at the orginal place or another place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> My dad died when I was 13. My memories of him are tied to the house that I live in. When I walk out the back porch, I see the deck that he and I built together, the backyard where the swing used to be that he would push me on. In the computer room, I remember him fighting with MSDOS 15 years ago, while I was too little to understand what he was doing. I'm not making any new memories of him, and the physical presence of the house keeps them close.
One of my friends has serious mental issues. He has been institutionalized several times for bipolar disorder amidst other things. However, in my house, I can sit at the dining room table and remember all of the days that we came home from school, drank orange juice, played chess, and listened to motown together. I can look at the basement and remember all the times that we spent playing grudge matches of twisted metal 2 late into the night and beating die hard arcade over and over. I'm not making any new memories of him like this, and the physical presence of the house keeps them close.
I will still have most of these memories after we inevitably move, but having the constant physical reminder is of great value to me.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
Allow me to ask another question then Cyndane, do you have any photos? or a photo album? of people you love or care about? do you have any broken watches or jewelry from a loved one? do you consider those things to be... materialistic?
You are welcome to ask as much as you want, I will let you know if I have issues responding on a public board.
<!--QuoteBegin-neonspyder+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (neonspyder)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1. Allow me to ask another question then Cyndane, do you have any photos?
2. or a photo album?
3. of people you love or care about?
4. do you have any broken watches or jewelry from a loved one?
5. do you consider those things to be... materialistic? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1. I have photos of my cats. 2. I have no photo album. 3. No, see previous post. 4. No I do not. 5. I do not consider those to be materialistic.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Jun 23 2005, 07:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Jun 23 2005, 07:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think it is being more territorial then materialistic as well, but that doesn't change the fact you are associating strong feelings with a place you can easily make more memories from and still remember the good times at the orginal place or another place.
lolfighter again, seems quite adapt at hitting things on the head with how I am thinking at the moment, it may take a few of you a while to adapt to your every changing environment, but for some of us, it isn't that hard. Especially being forced to at a young age, with no reason given at the time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Disagree. Though it will take me a sec to chisel past the holier-than-thou attitude and get to the meat of the issue.
Territory is mine because I have claimed it and defended it. That is easy to give up, and you will see people doing it every day. Because we are a social species being strongly territorial is generally regarded as a bad thing (possessive, paranoid, etc -- ever had a territorial boyfriend?).
Like it or not, adapting to a changing environment does take some effort. I could nip over and change your computer to BeOS and re-paint your room puce green. You'd adapt just fine, but I sincerely doubt you would let me. Why, if changes for no reason are perfectly acceptable? And yes, I picked two that are not just different but worse.
Someone who fights for their country is usually considered good and patriotic, fighting against it gets called treason. What is belonging to a country but our arbitrary valuation of it? Even your family and friends are not inherently any more important than anyone else. Put bluntly, human society is built around attaching non-intrinsic values to people, things and concepts. Claiming anything else is pure fiction, and I really don't think you are quite that cynical.
The usual complaint is that I am blurring the distinction between people and things. How about the family dog, people or thing? Is the writing I put years into considered part of me, or just another thing? Everyone will sort their priorities a little differently, but I guarantee you everyone has a point at which non-persons rate more highly than a person. Guarantee. Because otherwise you would already have given virtually everything away to those that need food and medicine to survive, and would not be connected to the Internet talking in this forum.
I happen to rate my house more highly than some politician's kickback and a developer's new shopping center. And I value my ability to choose what people and things in my life are worth to me.
It's: - having to spend the time moving, taking time off other activites (work, play, etc) - spend time finding a new house thats subtable - your new location might force a change of lifestyle (new school, extra hour on drive to work, etc) - hassle of changing your address and maybe phone number on all your forms. Phone, credit cards, TV, internet, insurance, subscriptions and so forth - your mail. Oh god, we moved and months later mail was still being re-routed and moved - insurance on other things. We moved, our car insurance went up since we now lived in a "high risk" area. Does their payments account for that? - and the worst one. If you are unlucky and get possesion date AFTER you lose possesion of your current house, you get to move it all into storage and then out again! It's like 2 moves in 1! w0000 (done this before, ugh)
They had better be paying double what that house and land is worth just for those reasons, but then you have your sentimental reasons which you guys are already duking out on which come into play also.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin-Koulnis+Jun 23 2005, 09:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Koulnis @ Jun 23 2005, 09:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Suggest a phase over to the discussions forum for this one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Seconded, although I'll probably stop reading the thread if it leaves OT. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Wow, how nice. Who cares about those poor inner-city residents that are on the poverty line and living with 5 kids in a small 1 bedroom apartment? Who cares about those people who don't care about money, who just care about pride? GFG U.S. Government!
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-BulletHead+Jun 23 2005, 09:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BulletHead @ Jun 23 2005, 09:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If they pry this .44 from my cold dead fingers, THEN they can have the land... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have never before been really convinced that I needed to buy a weapon. If this actually has an effect, I'm going to need one.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Jun 23 2005, 09:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jun 23 2005, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BulletHead+Jun 23 2005, 09:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BulletHead @ Jun 23 2005, 09:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If they pry this .44 from my cold dead fingers, THEN they can have the land... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have never before been really convinced that I needed to buy a weapon. If this actually has an effect, I'm going to need one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Fear the government that fears your gun.
Comments
Eminent domain has existed as long as this country in the US too, its only in the last 50 years or so that it has started to be used for commercial development and other things not directly related to creation of public property. That's what the lawsuit was about.
Don't like the US, move out, easy as that... oh wait.. then you won't have the same rights and/or freedoms. Double standards are easy to name aren't they? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Welcome to Canada, would you like nicer people with your order of freedom? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh no you don't. Don't even try. You and Swiftspear can have fun in your land of frost and moose. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You've obviously never had Sugar Frosted Moose, you SOUTHERNER. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
its people's houses.
and im sorry, but people dont buy the place, thinking ' oh well its our's until the government want it'
christ, you people need to get in the real world. or get your own properties at least.
Be realistic, there are people like me up here.
Well since I am so loved here at the moment I might as well take the time to refute the statements while I am at work. On to the first one.l
First off, I have been very bodily thrown out of my "home" by the government, it wasn't the united states government, so there was no compensation involved, it was leave or you are dead(Not joking). Personally, since I didn't have a choice in the matter and I was only fourteen at the time. Do I miss "home", of course I do I was born there, why wouldn't I.
However, I have found a new home, and I love it, I wouldn't leave the US for a permanet stay any time soon. I enjoy being able to do as I please and not have to worry about some idiot over my shoulder attempting to kill me.
I am willing to bet all of you that said "omg don't give them money to move" have never had to move in your life like that. You moved because your parents told you to, and there was no other reason, perhaps it was financial, had to cut back or perhaps your parents were making more and optioned to get a nicer home, either way you have moved on. You have a new "home" and you have memories there, do you miss it? Probably, most people grow overly attatched to material things as quite clearly evidenced by this thread.
So before you even begin to cast judgement how about you step outside your little soap box of a view of the world and wake up to reality. What the article was referring it is as nice as it gets for taking away someones home.
<!--QuoteBegin-lolfighter+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
You are a regular of the Discussions forum. Would you consider it good form to debate a topic without knowing about it? Assume a discussion about AIDS: If somebody claimed that it's completely harmless, wouldn't this be offensive to the whole discussion?
Please, do us all a favour: Either acknowledge and accept that people object to being wantonly thrown out of their homes, or stop posting in this thread. Thank you.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am going to break this down a little bit, because there are a few points I wish to make.
Yes, I am very much a regular of the discussions forum, and you know what I find out in there? No one has any common sense to listen to someone who has first hand experience about the topic at hand, obviously this is the case here as well.
I agree, not knowing about the topic is very bad form to try to debate about it, however I fall outside of that little statement you attempted to pass, I prefer to keep my personal life personal, however when you start making blanket attacks on my person someone feels obligated to give you the straight of it.
Anyone who would even bother comparing this topic to AIDS really needs to step back and take a deep breath the two have nothing to do with each other and in the case of the person may say it isn't "bad" we can back that up with lots of evidence that it is, say.. namely.. death?
Does losing ones home kill them? No.
The only thing you really have to argue with me on this one is your personal opinion, and mine differs so apparently I have no knowledge of the subject, yet clearly I do.
I don't agree that people are being "wantonly" thrown out of their homes, if that was the case I wouldn't want to live here. Which is why you don't really hear much of this going on, because the governments in question do more then adequately compensate people for their loss, one of the major reasons I like how sympathetic this government is compared to where I was born.
So, you all may now just bugger off and keep your closed minded views to yourselves. When the few of you grow up that need it, you might just appreciate how wonderful this country is, even if we have an idiot running it.
I mentioned AIDS as a completely random example. I think we can all agree that it is anything but harmless, which was my main point: If somebody claims it to be harmless, you can say without doubt that they know nothing of the subject. The consequences of AIDS and being thrown out of your home are in no way comparable, and I never did make a comparison.
So you got thrown out of your home and didn't mind. As I already said, fine for you. But realize that other people very much DO mind. Calling me or anyone else immature is not going to change that. Feel free to continue lambasting us for that. In a <i>different</i> thread. THIS thread is about people who feel attached to their homes. If we weren't, there would be no need for the thread nor for the lawsuit it's about.
I suggest a title along the lines of "Materialism: It's gone too far" or "Grow Up: Your home is not your life."
You say that I am arguing personal opinion with you, and I very much agree. But you seem to believe that you and you alone have the correct opinion.
The facts of life are that most governments have the ability to acquire private land against the owner's wishes (duh, they have an army). The variation is what they have to give the owner, and what they can use the land for. I, personally, could agree to fair market value and to remain public property for at least (say) five years.
The supreme court judgement just clarified that, in the US, the latter condition does not exist. For those that want it, convince your elected representatives to make it a law. Good luck with that and all.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but you do agree people are far too materialistic today<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes and no. There are two things that often get classed as materialism. I'm going to call them monetary materialism and sentimental materialism, for the sake of argument. I consider the formal the bad kind: having stuff for the sake of having stuff. The latter is a little different. My house is nothing impressive, but is has been on the receiving end of a lot of my time and energy. Forget the money, you can't have it.
Mine isn't the only opinion nor is it always the right one, but you do agree people are far too materialistic today.
Which is the only point I was trying to make.
Side note: Friendship rings are better then the bracelets.. but I need someone to be my BFF.
Mine isn't the only opinion nor is it always the right one, but you do agree people are far too materialistic today.
Which is the only point I was trying to make.
Side note: Friendship rings are better then the bracelets.. but I need someone to be my BFF. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its not the physical wood, drywall etc that people get attached to. Its the way it smells that just makes it feel like home. Its the way it reminds you of all of the eras of your life, and keeps your memories close to you. Its the way you've turned it into a perfect place for you to live.
I don't think you've got this materialistic thing thought through very well. It is materialistic to think that someone can be adequately monetarily compensated for losing a sense of contentment, comfort, familiarity, and the memories that go along with owning and living in a home. The fact that some commercial entity can pay off a politician to demolish people's <i>homes</i>, not just houses, <i>homes</i> is obscene.
Most processes work better when done in slow increments rather than in one go. Incremental drug withdrawal has higher success rates than cold turkey.
Or for a parrallel that gives ample opportunity for misunderstanding: If you take a fish out of the water and expect it to breathe air, it'll just suffocate. The process of developing lungs took millions of years. I'm not saying we should take millions of years to give up our territorial ways, but give us a little time to adapt to this brave new world, okay?
<!--QuoteBegin-Moultano+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Moultano)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I don't think you've got this materialistic thing thought through very well. It is materialistic to think that someone can be adequately monetarily compensated for losing a sense of contentment, comfort, familiarity, and the memories that go along with owning and living in a home. The fact that some commercial entity can pay off a politician to demolish people's homes, not just houses, homes is obscene.
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Lumping this in with this quote from fighter.
<!--QuoteBegin-lolfighter+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
This is more about being territorial than being materialistic, though. And territorial we are, just like a lot of animals. It's a basic instinct, one that most of us can't just ignore. Now, I don't say that being slave to your instincts is a desirable state, but it's not a good idea to force us to act against them as drastically as this. A gradual move away from territorialism is desirable.
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I think it is being more territorial then materialistic as well, but that doesn't change the fact you are associating strong feelings with a place you can easily make more memories from and still remember the good times at the orginal place or another place.
lolfighter again, seems quite adapt at hitting things on the head with how I am thinking at the moment, it may take a few of you a while to adapt to your every changing environment, but for some of us, it isn't that hard. Especially being forced to at a young age, with no reason given at the time.
My dad died when I was 13. My memories of him are tied to the house that I live in. When I walk out the back porch, I see the deck that he and I built together, the backyard where the swing used to be that he would push me on. In the computer room, I remember him fighting with MSDOS 15 years ago, while I was too little to understand what he was doing. I'm not making any new memories of him, and the physical presence of the house keeps them close.
One of my friends has serious mental issues. He has been institutionalized several times for bipolar disorder amidst other things. However, in my house, I can sit at the dining room table and remember all of the days that we came home from school, drank orange juice, played chess, and listened to motown together. I can look at the basement and remember all the times that we spent playing grudge matches of twisted metal 2 late into the night and beating die hard arcade over and over. I'm not making any new memories of him like this, and the physical presence of the house keeps them close.
I will still have most of these memories after we inevitably move, but having the constant physical reminder is of great value to me.
July 29th, 2005.
- THE WAVE IS COMING.
<!--QuoteBegin-neonspyder+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (neonspyder)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
1. Allow me to ask another question then Cyndane, do you have any photos?
2. or a photo album?
3. of people you love or care about?
4. do you have any broken watches or jewelry from a loved one?
5. do you consider those things to be... materialistic?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. I have photos of my cats.
2. I have no photo album.
3. No, see previous post.
4. No I do not.
5. I do not consider those to be materialistic.
lolfighter again, seems quite adapt at hitting things on the head with how I am thinking at the moment, it may take a few of you a while to adapt to your every changing environment, but for some of us, it isn't that hard. Especially being forced to at a young age, with no reason given at the time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Disagree. Though it will take me a sec to chisel past the holier-than-thou attitude and get to the meat of the issue.
Territory is mine because I have claimed it and defended it. That is easy to give up, and you will see people doing it every day. Because we are a social species being strongly territorial is generally regarded as a bad thing (possessive, paranoid, etc -- ever had a territorial boyfriend?).
Like it or not, adapting to a changing environment does take some effort. I could nip over and change your computer to BeOS and re-paint your room puce green. You'd adapt just fine, but I sincerely doubt you would let me. Why, if changes for no reason are perfectly acceptable? And yes, I picked two that are not just different but worse.
Someone who fights for their country is usually considered good and patriotic, fighting against it gets called treason. What is belonging to a country but our arbitrary valuation of it? Even your family and friends are not inherently any more important than anyone else. Put bluntly, human society is built around attaching non-intrinsic values to people, things and concepts. Claiming anything else is pure fiction, and I really don't think you are quite that cynical.
The usual complaint is that I am blurring the distinction between people and things. How about the family dog, people or thing? Is the writing I put years into considered part of me, or just another thing? Everyone will sort their priorities a little differently, but I guarantee you everyone has a point at which non-persons rate more highly than a person. Guarantee. Because otherwise you would already have given virtually everything away to those that need food and medicine to survive, and would not be connected to the Internet talking in this forum.
I happen to rate my house more highly than some politician's kickback and a developer's new shopping center. And I value my ability to choose what people and things in my life are worth to me.
It's:
- having to spend the time moving, taking time off other activites (work, play, etc)
- spend time finding a new house thats subtable
- your new location might force a change of lifestyle (new school, extra hour on drive to work, etc)
- hassle of changing your address and maybe phone number on all your forms. Phone, credit cards, TV, internet, insurance, subscriptions and so forth
- your mail. Oh god, we moved and months later mail was still being re-routed and moved
- insurance on other things. We moved, our car insurance went up since we now lived in a "high risk" area. Does their payments account for that?
- and the worst one. If you are unlucky and get possesion date AFTER you lose possesion of your current house, you get to move it all into storage and then out again! It's like 2 moves in 1! w0000 (done this before, ugh)
They had better be paying double what that house and land is worth just for those reasons, but then you have your sentimental reasons which you guys are already duking out on which come into play also.
Seconded, although I'll probably stop reading the thread if it leaves OT. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I have never before been really convinced that I needed to buy a weapon. If this actually has an effect, I'm going to need one.
I have never before been really convinced that I needed to buy a weapon. If this actually has an effect, I'm going to need one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fear the government that fears your gun.