Honestly, with a taser, i'd be more worried about the pain of two metal spikes going into my skin than the jolt itself. I'm not a very good needle person.
<!--QuoteBegin-Dubbilex+Jun 16 2005, 01:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dubbilex @ Jun 16 2005, 01:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Grab her arm. Pull. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats not really the best idea. When I pull on my mothers arm she gets a lot of pain from it.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Dubbilex+Jun 16 2005, 06:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dubbilex @ Jun 16 2005, 06:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Grab her arm. Pull. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Potentially dislocate shoulder, sprain wrist, elbow, arm, she trips up, smashes head off pavement, concussion.
Potentially she fights back, tries to break free, hits the car's gear stick, car rolls forward, cops get caught in car, get hurt.
Sure she's a relatively weedy woman (compared to two cops) but if you've ever seen a mentally unstable person (and they don't know if she is or not but jesus, from the way she's acting I sure think she is) snap, they can be quite insane (i used to frequent a mental hostal where my mother worked, I've seen it quite a few times) and a lot more viscious than you think.
These are pretty unlikely. But she is potentially deadly. Just because she turns out not to be <b>after</b> the incident makes no difference. You can't look back at something like that and judge the actions of the cops. As Davis mentioned earlier (and it seems, no one noticed), there have been many, many cases of seemingly co-operative people pulling a gun, knife, punching, kicking, lashing out, speeding off etc...
What if, when they tried to pull her out, she snatched her arm back off them (which is amazingly easy to do), and drove off, and hit an old woman? Or a young kid. Or even a fire engine, stopping it from getting to where it's going. All are possibilities, no matter how remote.
My mother was involved in a car incident not so long ago. A bus had stopped in front of a small old guy's house due to an accident (it had hit a car or something), and she'd stopped too because she was the one who called the police and I don't know about anywhere else, but here you're supposed to wait for them to show up. The little old guy turns up, and he starts shouting and screaming about how this bus is in the way of his driveway, so my mom goes over to calm him down.
Sitting inside his drivers seat, with his seatbelt on, and his door shut, this small old man punched out through the window, and broke my mother's collar bone. With a single punch. My mom is not a small person. She's 6ft1 and built quite heavily.
The moral? You really can't judge people on their appearence.
So what does the whole incident come down to? Potential loss of life / serious injury.
Definate few seconds/moments of pain and discomfort for an unco-operative woman who's in violation of several traffic laws and has shown no sign of actually obeying the police.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
edited June 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-X Stickman+Jun 16 2005, 01:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X Stickman @ Jun 16 2005, 01:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And we <b>STILL</b> haven't seen any reasonable, sensible alternative methods for removing this woman from the car. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Better yet, why are we even having this conversation over how right/wrong how smart/dumb the officer in this video is.
The woman was resisting, the officer gave her verbal commands 6 times and it even looks as if he reached in the car to try to get a hold of her.
Verbal commands did not work so he went up the continum of force to the next step as all police are trained to do. The next step after mere officer presence and verbal commands being either soft empty hand tactics (grabbing) or peppersray/TASER which can also be used.
He did nothing wrong. He acted as his training mandated and under the structure of the law.
If you have some gripe about the continum of force policys that all police use stop blaming the officer and blame the goverment and the US surpreme court decisions on decideding what is right and wrong when it comes down to use of force decisions. b/c that is what determines what the police go by.
If someone refused to get out of their car for me after I gave them that many warnings pepperspraying (same area as using a TASER) them would definitly be a possibility.
Okay, harmless lady? Driving at 51 mph in a 33mph area with a broken windshield and not wearing her seatbelt. So already she was in danger of harming others AND herself.
From the moment of being pulled over she seemed to not quite understand her situation, or thought she did but didn't quite 'get' it. Apparently the cop's reason for pulling her over wasn't good enough in her view, and she challenged this guy's decision to pull her over (a foolish thing to do).
However, I don't think the situation was handled that well from the cop's perspective - mentioning 'I'll be there in court' probably put her into a panicked state. Also, pulling a taser gun on her and expecting her to know what it is (while unhelpfully saying "I'll have to tase you") is foolish as well, you can hear her say on the phone "He's pulled a gun on me".
So now she's really scared...on one hand she might be going to court or worse, in her mind. On the other she's being threatened with a gun.
So why does she scream and make such a noise when being shot? I think the answer is obvious - SHOCK. Not shock of the taser's effects, but shock that's she's actually been <i>shot</i>. If she was still under the impression that it was a real gun, she would think she was actually shot with a gun, bullets, rather than a harmless electrical shock.
Okay so the situation is kinda amsuing, but this isn't a TV show - this isn't staged...this is someone in genuine fear, panic, and shock, brought about by some insensitive handling by these cops (and her own paranoia). However, considering her attitude towards them, maybe she did deserve it - I just hope she learnt something from the experience, and that these cops helped her regather her thoughts afterwards.
So was it justified to use a taser? Eh, she'll get over it I'm sure, and as I said, maybe she'll learn something. Still, I think there would have been better ways to deal with her such as being compassionate about her situation rather than a 'do what I say or fry' attitude.
(this article also mentions on how use of tasers on Volunteers is not consistent with the street use of tasers on suspects.) (yes HOW you use the taser makes a big difference)
and another <a href='http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/201827_taser01.html' target='_blank'>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/201827_taser01.html</a> (drug related but still)
(despite the website name the article makes a case for and against tasers)
Even if alot of taser deaths are associated with people on drugs remember the police number one priority is to preserve life. Usually tasers are used as a last resort instead of pistols. That officer didnt know what the lady was on. Using his hands was a sure bet and besides he was bigger and stronger and he had help.
He knew the lady wasent holding any dangerous weapons because he could see her hands... at least one was on the cell phone. It was an unneccesary and more lifethreatening move than just yanking her out of the car and putting the cuffs on her. Its a woman for christs sake she isnt going to land any fatal strikes on him. Its not like she had a knife for christs sake.
<!--QuoteBegin-BukakkeSake+Jun 16 2005, 07:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BukakkeSake @ Jun 16 2005, 07:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Have you ever had a family member abused by the police? I have, and that **** is infuriating. Officer Ed Puck of the Buffalo Minnesota sheriffs office let his dog bite the **** out of my brothers leg when he gave himself up and layed on the ground...it was punishment for running, and of course there was no one else around so the officer got away with it.
BTW does anyone know any substances I can poison a dog with? Something I can work into a doggy treat that the dog wont turn its nose up too, something slow. Any links? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The fact that your brother was a victim of a cop's abuse of power doesn't make this officer wrong on his actions.
Also, I'm pretty sure that if your brother has clear chunks out of his leg, the inspecting department can and eventually will go back to the dog. That is, if you can prove that your brother, after running away from an officer, decided to stop and gave himself up, something your brother could have invented, or something too late for the police officer to call back his dog I don't know in which measures police dogs are used, but they are actually trained to incapacitate victims without physical injuries. The worst you'll get are bruises and scratches from a fall. In any case, if the injuries are serious, I'm pretty confident the law's on your brother's side anyway.
Poisoning the dog is a stupid idea and you're completely idiotic even to bring it up. Even if you were allowed to approach a police dog, and even if you can give him a treat (something that won't happen) and even if the dog TRAINED TO HAVE A GOOD FLAIR doesn't smell what's wrong, and even if he accepts this trick, then not only have you not repaired your brother's prejudice, but you probably have made it worse for both of you. Not to mention you have assaulted and killed a member of the peacekeeping force.
edit: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->He knew the lady wasent holding any dangerous weapons because he could see her hands... at least one was on the cell phone. It was an unneccesary and more lifethreatening move than just yanking her out of the car and putting the cuffs on her. Its a woman for christs sake she isnt going to land any fatal strikes on him. Its not like she had a knife for christs sake. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Common sense might say that she's unarmed, but caution says she's POTENTIALLY ARMED. When you're standing right out of a cardoor, do you know if she doesn't have a knife up her sleeve, a pistol next to her? She can do any brutal movement and, even if she doesn't hurt an officer, it can get dirty and it WILL get dirty. If she decides to slam the door on the officer, that's an officer down on the street, and it's going to be followed with something much more injuring than a taser shot. She's going to be batonned or even shot at. Remember, he's only following procedure: he's acting to do what he was trained to do. He wasn't answered, therefore he acted following the worst scenario, and acted rightly without the chance of any major incident.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
edited June 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-Merkaba+Jun 16 2005, 01:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Merkaba @ Jun 16 2005, 01:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Okay so the situation is kinda amsuing, but this isn't a TV show - this isn't staged...this is someone in genuine fear, panic, and shock, brought about by some insensitive handling by these cops (and perhaps her own paranoia). However, considering her attitude towards them, maybe she did deserve it - I just hope she learnt something from the experience, and that these cops helped her regather her thoughts afterwards.
So was it justified to use a taser? Eh, she'll get over it I'm sure, and as I said, maybe she'll learn something. Still, I think there would have been better ways to deal with her such as being compassionate about her situation rather than a 'do what I say or fry' attitude. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> When a police officer is going to arrest someone you get the job done, the longer the issue goes on the worse the situation is going to get.
Either you put your hands behind your back or Im going to do it for you.
You give the person verbal commands and warnings to give them the oppertunity to do so voluntarily. You dont sit there and **** around all day. The criminal chooses (just as this woman did) to resist and not comply with the officer.
She chose to go down that road not the officer, who has to react to her actions.
Maam I need to step out of your car... repeat... repeat... repeat...
She chose not come out.
The officer again gave her the oppertunity to get out of the car and he specifically warned her that he would tase her if not.... Several times.
She still chose to not come out.
She was technically resisting from the second she refused the first time. The officer technically could have taken her out right there. But he gave her several more chances. How is that being insensitive?
He used a TASER, she gets shocked for a few seconds, sure it hurts, but its a shock. As quick as it comes, its all done jsut as fast. No longer lasting effects like pepperspray and no scrappes, cuts, bruises, or even possible broken bones from being grabbed in an arm locked and thrown to the pavement from her SUV.
--------------------- And on that comment, about her not being armed, Just because you cant see a weapon on or around someone doesnt mean she isnt. As ive said many times before. there have far too many documented cases where simple traffic stops with seemingly ordinary polite, joking people suddenly pull a pistol or knife or mace from out of nowhere and bad things happen. That SUV was that womans fortress and position of power, where she could be concealing any number of things within easy reach of herself yet out of plain view. Even when you are standing right next to the vehicle. Its not that hard believe me.
Oh, and with respect, you can't actually see the woman in her car so for all we know she might have started foaming at the mouth and developed blood shot killer eyes. Would you have pulled a taser on her then, if you had one and knew its proper use?
I'd be interested to see how the same situation would be dealt with in England, though. I guess she'd probably be offered a cup of tea and a crumpet, right?
<!--QuoteBegin-Cereal KillR+Jun 16 2005, 01:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal KillR @ Jun 16 2005, 01:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BukakkeSake+Jun 16 2005, 07:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BukakkeSake @ Jun 16 2005, 07:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Have you ever had a family member abused by the police? I have, and that **** is infuriating. Officer Ed Puck of the Buffalo Minnesota sheriffs office let his dog bite the **** out of my brothers leg when he gave himself up and layed on the ground...it was punishment for running, and of course there was no one else around so the officer got away with it.
BTW does anyone know any substances I can poison a dog with? Something I can work into a doggy treat that the dog wont turn its nose up too, something slow. Any links? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The fact that your brother was a victim of a cop's abuse of power doesn't make this officer wrong on his actions.
Also, I'm pretty sure that if your brother has clear chunks out of his leg, the inspecting department can and eventually will go back to the dog. That is, if you can prove that your brother, after running away from an officer, decided to stop and gave himself up, something your brother could have invented, or something too late for the police officer to call back his dog I don't know in which measures police dogs are used, but they are actually trained to incapacitate victims without physical injuries. The worst you'll get are bruises and scratches from a fall. In any case, if the injuries are serious, I'm pretty confident the law's on your brother's side anyway.
Poisoning the dog is a stupid idea and you're completely idiotic even to bring it up. Even if you were allowed to approach a police dog, and even if you can give him a treat (something that won't happen) and even if the dog TRAINED TO HAVE A GOOD FLAIR doesn't smell what's wrong, and even if he accepts this trick, then not only have you not repaired your brother's prejudice, but you probably have made it worse for both of you. Not to mention you have assaulted and killed a member of the peacekeeping force. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Cant you let a guy be angry? OF COURSE I was not seroius about poisoning the dog. Though if i could get away with it.... No your the idiot for writing that entire paragraph because you obviously cant tell the difference between mock seroiousness and someone actually asking for that information.I really do with something like this would happen to you or a family member then maybe you wouldnt find this **** so cool.
Maybe you didnt read what i typed HE WAS ON THE GROUND AND GIVING HIMSELF UP, at that point it is upon the police officer to restrain the miserable mutt, he intentionally . I know all about the legalities of it, I know its his word versus my brothers but do you think police officers shoud be allowed to torture suspects when they **** them off? A police officer should allow disrespect for them to get in the way of them doing their jobs. But enough about my case, lets just focus on this lady.
The cop was out of line, plain and simple. He put the woman in unneccesary danger, he could have used a hold or pepperspray but he wanted to try out the brand new taser he just got.
You know if you all like this sort of thing you should check out www.consumptionjunction.com
They have an entire forum to videos like this, thats where I got to see all of the mid east beheadings.
Why do I get the feeling like I am the only one keeping it real in this thread?
<!--QuoteBegin-Merkaba+Jun 16 2005, 08:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Merkaba @ Jun 16 2005, 08:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> From the moment of being pulled over she seemed to not quite understand her situation, or thought she did but didn't quite 'get' it. Apparently the cop's reason for pulling her over wasn't good enough in her view, and she challenged this guy's decision to pull her over (a foolish thing to do). [...]
So now she's really scared...on one hand she might be going to court or worse, in her mind. On the other she's being threatened with a gun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well actually I'd think she's quite aware. I don't know what measures are taken to suspend a license, but I think she does know what's coming for her. She's already had troubles, obviously, or she'd be in perfect legality license-wise. And if she thinks the reason is not sufficient, it makes perfect sense to cooperate. If she's all clean, the cops don't have anything against her. And if she's clean but doesn't cooperate, she can be sent to the station just because of lack of cooperation.
About the "going on the court" you'll notice she's the one who's threatening the cop about going to court. She's not scared at all, she's believing she'll win this trial, in fact she's being very aggressive. She's talking pretty coolly on the phone.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe you didnt read what i typed HE WAS ON THE GROUND AND GIVING HIMSELF UP, at that point it is upon the police officer to restrain the miserable mutt<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes I did read, did you read mine? In fact I'm saying that if you can prove that he was on the ground and giving himself up, then you can sue the officer for unjustified injuries. But what I see is that: -The cop wants cooperation. -Your brother flees for some reason. -Seeing it's useless, your brother gives up. -However, the dog, being faster than your brother, is probably already on your brother. -The police officer can't pull off his dog because he's already on your brother.
Now just look: If your brother has important wounds, then the police officer didn't follow procedure, so you can sue him. For this, all chances are on your side. If there is justifiable proof that your brother gave himself up, all the chances are on your side.
However, it's not because he's your brother that he is right. One of the two are right, one of the two are wrong. I can't say which is which, but seeing as how your brother didn't cooperate immediately, then there you go... Again, however, if there are important wounds: the police officer didn't follow procedure. Use of violence isn't authorized except if he was a threat.
Now back on the lady: The cop wasn't out of line. The lady was out of line, the cop follows standard procedure. A taser is not "unnecessary danger" The lady put herself in unnecessary danger, the cops didn't hurt her, while alternatives would have.
<!--QuoteBegin-CplDavis+Jun 16 2005, 08:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CplDavis @ Jun 16 2005, 08:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> She chose to go down that road not the officer, who has to react to her actions. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> True, but she might not have gone down that road if she had been handled differently; verbally that is.
I agree with you though, if you're asked to get out of your car repeatedly by an officer than you damn well do it because there is NO alternative, unless you want to take the trip even further and in which case you're just a bloody fool.
What I am saying though is that I think, with a different approach (or better communication, and by that I don't mean shouting louder), the use of 'force' could have been avoided and it could have been wrapped up quietly and quickly. But it doesn't really matter, anyway. I just hope this woman understands that they did what they felt they had to do.
Yes it is funny Yes it is disturbing Yes she did deserve it Yes she could have been handled without force Yes the cops could have done it better Yes the cops did what they had to do
Why can't everyone be right for once? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
edited June 2005
Another comment from me <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
We can all see the wide range of opinons spawning from this video. This brings me to another related aspect.
Media and public perception.
Not to offend anyone here but the vast majoirty Im going to say 95% of the general public are totally clueless about how laws work and even their own rights.
People see law enforcement from TV and the movies, even the news media who love a good story. Im sure you can think of some of these shows.
(btw 75% of the things that happen in that popular TV show CSI is either exageraged to an extreme measure or the things they do are just total BS to begin with.)
Then you can think of all those other shows like Law and Order, etc. People in genral from tv or elsewhere have this exagerated sense of the police, they think that nearly every break in and burglary, assault etc is so easily solved.
People watch COPs etc and think they know all their rights.
Believe it or not people just because you get arrested doesnt mean the police have to read you your miranda rights. They only have to do that under certain criteria.
Anyways back on percieved public perception This goes for anything else in general not neccisarly this video. Things are not always as they seem.
Example. If some guy is on meth or something or maybe hes just a really big strong guy (im definitly not the biggest guy lol)..
Well lets say mr. 6 foot 5 inches tall 260 pounds of pure muscle sees that little ol Cpl.Davis is only 5 foot 6 and not 260 and well mr strong bad guy decides he can and wants to kick my ****.
Well if you think Im going to have a fight on my hands, well you bet I am. If I have to get into a physical confrontation with him no matter what my training its not going to be easy.
If I cant immediatly get him down (all the while still giving him commands to get down) hand to hand Iam most certainly justifed in drawing my expanding baton and (still giving him commands to get down) giving him a good ol whack to the thigh.
Now here is where the public perception comes in.
If I strike this guy 120% in the thigh and possibly I happento break his leg and he goes down and aI cuff him... in reality no one including people like the news who might happen to be taping the incident will really say i was in the wrong. Id probably be on the news saying how police took in a violent suspect.
Now
If maybe i was timid or nervous about the possibility of really hurting him (even though he definitly wants to hurt me) and instead of strikeing him one good time, I hit him several times but very weak, thats going to look a lot different.
In fact. what if they guy is on drugs and jsut doesnt feel the pain? So after I hit him hard nothing happens. So I have to hit him again on the leg, and maybe again. To get him to get down so i can cuff him.
Well any witnesses and the news people are not going to see/ knowall that.
All they are going to see is me hitting the guy once vs me hitting him several times (which both were justtifed and both accomplished the same goal)
Now Ill proabably be all ridiculed and such for beating the guy and using excessive force. Even though that was not the case.
<!--QuoteBegin-Dubbilex+Jun 16 2005, 01:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dubbilex @ Jun 16 2005, 01:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Grab her arm. Pull. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Woman picks up knife. Stabs the officer. Second officer shoots the woman, she dies. One officer who <i>could</i> die from bloodloss or a mortal wound, and one dead woman.
<i>You</i> come before the guy you just pulled over, which is why he used a tazer, <b>there were no safer alternatives that do not harm "both parties."</b> As said, he didnt check the vehicle, he doesnt know the woman at all, he doesnt know what shes capable of. This could be a manly crossdresser for all you know.
edit: And for christ sakes, always listen to an officer, <i>even if they are wrong.</i> No, I'm not talking about so far wrong its life dangering wrong, as in wrong in what you did. You take them to court, you deal with it later, not now. <i>Always</i> listen to a police officer.
<!--QuoteBegin-Merkaba+Jun 16 2005, 11:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Merkaba @ Jun 16 2005, 11:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What I am saying though is that I think, with a different approach (or better communication, and by that I don't mean shouting louder), the use of 'force' could have been avoided and it could have been wrapped up quietly and quickly. But it doesn't really matter, anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How exactly would you expect this verbal solution to work? She already told the police that they had no right to stop her. She was completely ignoring them... what combination of words to you think would possibly get her to suddenly begin paying attention to them, let alone follow directions?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->... it could have been wrapped up quietly and quickly<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With all respect to you... watch the video again and listen to her shouting and ignoring the police before the initial attempt to pull her out of the car (which, incidentally, happened before the TASER use). In this very specific and concrete situation, I don't believe there are any magic phrases that will cause sudden understanding on the part of the woman.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just hope this woman understands that they did what they felt they had to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Given the fact that she apparently doesn't think police are allowed to stop people from breaking the law (three traffic violations and she said they had no right to pull her over), I seriously doubt it. She'll probably be telling people about what she sees as a brutal racist police stop for years to come (which, incidentally, is probably how a media outlet became aware of the stop and set up the interview with the training officer).
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
The only alternatives I see people state are actualy ussing MORE force then was ussed.
Davis: how are you trained to restrain a non coperative person?
forcibly draging some one from a car is actualy REALY hard.
Grab and pull? What if they: Hold on to sometihng, hit their head, face plant on the road when you do get them out?
Pepper Spray? Ask any one who has been hit with both and you will find out that a tazer is the lesser of the 2 evils. As well as being much more efficent for the officer involved...
and force just escelates form there <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think the officer was right in what he did.. I don't see there being any other easier alternative to what he did. And even if she didn't know what "tase" means it's not his fault and he did warn her several times.. it should be pretty obvious that something bad is going to happen if you don't comply when a police officer is aiming something at you that looks like a gun and verbally warning you multiple times.
The taser was more dangerous than pulling her out of the car.
Yes the woman was wrong and annoying. The taser could have killed her though, pulling her out of the car and forcibly handcuffing her is by far the best way because it provides the lowest risk of death, better yet pepperspray. You guys dont seem to understand that the taser is POTENTIALLY LETHAL, and as of now still an
This she could have had a knife **** is crap, she was smoking a cigarette (cop askes her to put it out) and talking with a phone in her hand. The cop had the door open before he tased her and could plainly see her hands, this was a powertrip. Dont tell me she could overpower the cop, ok she couldnt shes outsized and outnumbered, your being ridiculous.
As far as her being dangerous before hand maybe, I mean she was speeding, but she was pulled over and stopped, no longer dangerous anymore.
I didnt find that particularly funny.
I dont know why this **** is on the NS forums, i dont come here for this and ive seen lesser discussions moderated but if the admins allow oh well.
Ill give you this the **** WAS WRONG AND STUPID AND ASKING FOR IT, but she shouldnt have gotten tasered, a taser is an alternative to the pistol, not an alternative to the baton or pepperspray.
Quote all the biased sourcs you want, there were half a dozen better ways of handling it. They jumped the gun on using the taser plain and simple.
You guys just like seeing a woman get hurt. It gives you wood. thats some good ol american depravity for ya.
<!--QuoteBegin-BukakkeSake+Jun 16 2005, 01:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BukakkeSake @ Jun 16 2005, 01:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The cop was out of line, plain and simple. He put the woman in unneccesary danger, he could have used a hold or pepperspray but he wanted to try out the brand new taser he just got. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You really have to actually watch this video with the commentary. You are just basing your argument on predetermined notions. This was not a gung-ho cop trying out his new toy. He teaches proper taser use at his department. He knows when the right time to use a taser is because he has to teach other people about it.
And for all you grab and pull people and pepper spray enthusiasts watch the video with the commentary and you will find out how wrong you are.
Edit:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This she could have had a knife **** is crap, she was smoking a cigarette (cop askes her to put it out) and talking with a phone in her hand. The cop had the door open before he tased her and could plainly see her hands, this was a powertrip. Dont tell me she could overpower the cop, ok she couldnt shes outsized and outnumbered, your being ridiculous. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, anyone can inflict harm on someone else.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As far as her being dangerous before hand maybe, I mean she was speeding, but she was pulled over and stopped, no longer dangerous anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, a person is always dangerous. A person does not become passive just because she has been pulled over.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ill give you this the **** WAS WRONG AND STUPID AND ASKING FOR IT, but she shouldnt have gotten tasered, a taser is an alternative to the pistol, not an alternative to the baton or pepperspray.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, it is the alternative to the baton or pepperspray.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You guys just like seeing a woman get hurt. It gives you wood. thats some good ol american depravity for ya. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> correct, I fapped off at this. This is how I get my kicks.</sarcasm>
maybe someone can cut your argument a bit better then I did.
Davis: how are you trained to restrain a non coperative person?
forcibly draging some one from a car is actualy REALY hard.
Grab and pull? What if they: Hold on to sometihng, hit their head, face plant on the road when you do get them out? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> it all depends on how uncooperative they want to be.
Remember though that 99% of people are realitivly cooperative so things like this dont happen to often. Or you can just talk them down.
Talking is always good, it can really help you defuse something or make it worse, If some of you want to debate the cops verbal skills in this video go right ahead but regardless it was a different thing entirely when the woman refused to obey his lawful orders.
Im sure the officer in this video doesnt TASER every person he sees lol. We are only seeing this one incident. Im sure none of you would be interested with following him around and seeing jsut how boring his nomral day really is.
You have to use the approapriate amount of force (rememer an officer standing there or jsut speaking is considered the minimum amount of force.)
Lets say I need to handcuff someone. If someone is passivily resisting. As in they are not fighting they just wont put their hands behind their back.
Also remember im always using verbal commands, even up to the point if I have my gun pointed at them.
It might be just enough for me to gently but firmly grasp their arm/hand and put it there. That in itself is considered a very low level of force.
Now you can go all the way up the line in regards to them resisting more and more.
You can also use a variety of arm bars, and joint/wrist locks to hold someone or to walk them elsewhere or to get their hands where they need to be. But now you are getting more into defensive tactics where its gotten to the point where you are involved in an fight.
If they want to activly fight they are going to end up prone on the ground so you can cuff them from there. Then you can get them up if its ok and sit them in the back of your car etc.
And yea usually if you have to drag someone out of their car its a good chance its going to get ugly, they are sitting there, the only way they can get out assuming they dont turn to the side and move their legs is to go out sideways. So they are most likely going to get turned around and get their feet stuck in the car fall on the ground.
And yea that assuming they arnt so huge you cant easitly get them out, they dont grab onto something, hit their head on the way out, etc lots of problems can happen with doing that but sometimes when stuff goes down hill fast that might be your only option.
And you know what, had this officer grabbed this woman and yanked her out and you people saw all the crap that can go along with that I think you would all be saying, Why didnt he just TASER her instead.
Documentary type shows and programs like COPs and worlds wildest police viedos etc only show the minority exciting stuff. COPs film crews sometimes have to spend a good many days riding around trying to find something interesting.
Fights for example are 90% of the time ended or the people run away before you can get there.
I mean, honostly, those shows wouldnt be exciting if they didnt edit out all the traffic stops and calls for service where in the end nothing happens, and assist citizen calls and hundreds of other daily things (and tons of paperworK).
<!--QuoteBegin-BukakkeSake+Jun 16 2005, 10:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BukakkeSake @ Jun 16 2005, 10:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The taser was more dangerous than pulling her out of the car.
Yes the woman was wrong and annoying. The taser could have killed her though, pulling her out of the car and forcibly handcuffing her is by far the best way because it provides the lowest risk of death, better yet pepperspray. You guys dont seem to understand that the taser is POTENTIALLY LETHAL, and as of now still an
This she could have had a knife **** is crap, she was smoking a cigarette (cop askes her to put it out) and talking with a phone in her hand. The cop had the door open before he tased her and could plainly see her hands, this was a powertrip. Dont tell me she could overpower the cop, ok she couldnt shes outsized and outnumbered, your being ridiculous.
As far as her being dangerous before hand maybe, I mean she was speeding, but she was pulled over and stopped, no longer dangerous anymore.
I didnt find that particularly funny. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're forgetting that they're facing uncertainty and resistance. Pulling someone forcefully out of the car can go very wrong, you don't know why she stays in the car, why she's not listening to orders.
The taser would not have had more chance of killing her than being pulled out of the car, hitting her head on the edge of the door during her struggle, and dying from possibly blood loss. Both of these cases are possible, but BOTH OF THEM ARE NEGLIGIBLE. You can always find a way to die.
The object is to avoid all injury. She was outnumbered and overpowered, sure, but she can still do something foolish. We don't want a cop hurt, we don't want the woman hurt. She doesn't comply, therefore she's forced to.
In fact, who knows she's not some sort of kung-fu master or something similar? Appearances can be deceiving. I'm not implying that she can kick both cops' ****, but they're facing lack of cooperation. Meaning the woman is hostile and to be treated as such, yet human, and also treated as such. She didn't get bruises, she didn't break any bones, and the cops were uninjured as well.
Smoking doesn't prevent you from having weaponry. She could have a knife in her sleeve, a pistol next to her, who knows. Again, worst-case scenario. (edit: something stupid like throwing her cigarette in the cop's face then trying to kick him)
I didn't find this funny at all, but I still think that the cop was justified in his actions. I hate seeing anyone getting hurt, which is actually why I agree with the cop's actions.
I'm not American and I'm completely against easily-obtainable weaponry (because no matter good intentions, some weapons will fall in bad hands) but I think the woman acted stupidly and the cops acted correctly given the situation.
<!--QuoteBegin-BukakkeSake+Jun 16 2005, 12:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BukakkeSake @ Jun 16 2005, 12:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The taser was more dangerous than pulling her out of the car. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The trained police officer in this thread doesn't agree, and neither does the training officer who also gives concrete reasons for his opinion in the linked content.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I dont know why this **** is on the NS forums, i dont come here for this and ive seen lesser discussions moderated but if the admins allow oh well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody's forcing you to read or respond to this thread. If you don't like it, remove yourself from it. Pretty simple really.
I didn't find the video funny either--depressing and annoying, maybe, but not funny. That doesn't mean, however, that it's time to shout down all dissenting opinions.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote all the biased sourcs you want, there were half a dozen better ways of handling it. They jumped the gun on using the taser plain and simple.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, the law enforecement community as a whole and every piece of research that disagrees with you is wrong, we get it. You asked if somebody in this thread has been hit with a TASER and can speak from experience, and the answer is yes. Feel free to continue ignoring him.
As an actual police officer has already stated in this thread, the officers in the video were following departamental policies so there is no debate over whether he was within the rules. If you want to be angry at the rules, go ahead.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You guys just like seeing a woman get hurt. It gives you wood. thats some good ol american depravity for ya.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
Its not that I agree or disagree, Im not that officer in the video I like everyone here was not there so in the end we can all speculate the same. I also dont know his departmental policies as i dont work there. Im basing my observations of what I would do if it happened to me.
From what I saw and from my own knoweldge and training etc.
He could have TASERED or he could have yanked her out of there. Now we are in the field of officer discretion.
Choosing the best reponse to the situation.
He could and would have been justified in going down three paths
1. talking some more which already wasnt being effective and would probably lead to 2 or 3 anyways.
2. TASER 3. hands on appraoch.
He chose the 2nd choice over the more physical approach and that is the end of it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Cagey+Jun 16 2005, 04:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cagey @ Jun 16 2005, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BukakkeSake+Jun 16 2005, 12:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BukakkeSake @ Jun 16 2005, 12:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The taser was more dangerous than pulling her out of the car. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The trained police officer in this thread doesn't agree, and neither does the training officer who also gives concrete reasons for his opinion in the linked content.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I dont know why this **** is on the NS forums, i dont come here for this and ive seen lesser discussions moderated but if the admins allow oh well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody's forcing you to read or respond to this thread. If you don't like it, remove yourself from it. Pretty simple really.
I didn't find the video funny either--depressing and annoying, maybe, but not funny. That doesn't mean, however, that it's time to shout down all dissenting opinions.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote all the biased sourcs you want, there were half a dozen better ways of handling it. They jumped the gun on using the taser plain and simple.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, the law enforecement community as a whole and every piece of research that disagrees with you is wrong, we get it. You asked if somebody in this thread has been hit with a TASER and can speak from experience, and the answer is yes. Feel free to continue ignoring him.
As an actual police officer has already stated in this thread, the officers in the video were following departamental policies so there is no debate over whether he was within the rules. If you want to be angry at the rules, go ahead.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You guys just like seeing a woman get hurt. It gives you wood. thats some good ol american depravity for ya.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Trolling or tantrum? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Go. Cagey.
And you too Cpl. Davis! <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
Thats not really the best idea. When I pull on my mothers arm she gets a lot of pain from it.
Wrong answer.
The woman was in the wrong, she deserved exactly what she got: a minor physical shock, a major kick to her overflated ego.
Potentially dislocate shoulder, sprain wrist, elbow, arm, she trips up, smashes head off pavement, concussion.
Potentially she fights back, tries to break free, hits the car's gear stick, car rolls forward, cops get caught in car, get hurt.
Sure she's a relatively weedy woman (compared to two cops) but if you've ever seen a mentally unstable person (and they don't know if she is or not but jesus, from the way she's acting I sure think she is) snap, they can be quite insane (i used to frequent a mental hostal where my mother worked, I've seen it quite a few times) and a lot more viscious than you think.
These are pretty unlikely. But she is potentially deadly. Just because she turns out not to be <b>after</b> the incident makes no difference. You can't look back at something like that and judge the actions of the cops. As Davis mentioned earlier (and it seems, no one noticed), there have been many, many cases of seemingly co-operative people pulling a gun, knife, punching, kicking, lashing out, speeding off etc...
What if, when they tried to pull her out, she snatched her arm back off them (which is amazingly easy to do), and drove off, and hit an old woman? Or a young kid. Or even a fire engine, stopping it from getting to where it's going. All are possibilities, no matter how remote.
My mother was involved in a car incident not so long ago. A bus had stopped in front of a small old guy's house due to an accident (it had hit a car or something), and she'd stopped too because she was the one who called the police and I don't know about anywhere else, but here you're supposed to wait for them to show up. The little old guy turns up, and he starts shouting and screaming about how this bus is in the way of his driveway, so my mom goes over to calm him down.
Sitting inside his drivers seat, with his seatbelt on, and his door shut, this small old man punched out through the window, and broke my mother's collar bone. With a single punch. My mom is not a small person. She's 6ft1 and built quite heavily.
The moral? You really can't judge people on their appearence.
So what does the whole incident come down to?
Potential loss of life / serious injury.
Definate few seconds/moments of pain and discomfort for an unco-operative woman who's in violation of several traffic laws and has shown no sign of actually obeying the police.
I know which I'd pick.
Better yet, why are we even having this conversation over how right/wrong how smart/dumb the officer in this video is.
The woman was resisting, the officer gave her verbal commands 6 times and it even looks as if he reached in the car to try to get a hold of her.
Verbal commands did not work so he went up the continum of force to the next step as all police are trained to do. The next step after mere officer presence and verbal commands being either soft empty hand tactics (grabbing) or peppersray/TASER which can also be used.
He did nothing wrong. He acted as his training mandated and under the structure of the law.
If you have some gripe about the continum of force policys that all police use stop blaming the officer and blame the goverment and the US surpreme court decisions on decideding what is right and wrong when it comes down to use of force decisions.
b/c that is what determines what the police go by.
If someone refused to get out of their car for me after I gave them that many warnings pepperspraying (same area as using a TASER) them would definitly be a possibility.
Okay, harmless lady? Driving at 51 mph in a 33mph area with a broken windshield and not wearing her seatbelt. So already she was in danger of harming others AND herself.
From the moment of being pulled over she seemed to not quite understand her situation, or thought she did but didn't quite 'get' it. Apparently the cop's reason for pulling her over wasn't good enough in her view, and she challenged this guy's decision to pull her over (a foolish thing to do).
However, I don't think the situation was handled that well from the cop's perspective - mentioning 'I'll be there in court' probably put her into a panicked state. Also, pulling a taser gun on her and expecting her to know what it is (while unhelpfully saying "I'll have to tase you") is foolish as well, you can hear her say on the phone "He's pulled a gun on me".
So now she's really scared...on one hand she might be going to court or worse, in her mind. On the other she's being threatened with a gun.
So why does she scream and make such a noise when being shot? I think the answer is obvious - SHOCK. Not shock of the taser's effects, but shock that's she's actually been <i>shot</i>. If she was still under the impression that it was a real gun, she would think she was actually shot with a gun, bullets, rather than a harmless electrical shock.
Okay so the situation is kinda amsuing, but this isn't a TV show - this isn't staged...this is someone in genuine fear, panic, and shock, brought about by some insensitive handling by these cops (and her own paranoia). However, considering her attitude towards them, maybe she did deserve it - I just hope she learnt something from the experience, and that these cops helped her regather her thoughts afterwards.
So was it justified to use a taser? Eh, she'll get over it I'm sure, and as I said, maybe she'll learn something. Still, I think there would have been better ways to deal with her such as being compassionate about her situation rather than a 'do what I say or fry' attitude.
Here is an article to refute that
<a href='http://www.aclunc.org/police/040921-taser.pdf' target='_blank'>http://www.aclunc.org/police/040921-taser.pdf</a>
(this article also mentions on how use of tasers on Volunteers is not consistent with the street use of tasers on suspects.) (yes HOW you use the taser makes a big difference)
and another
<a href='http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/201827_taser01.html' target='_blank'>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/201827_taser01.html</a> (drug related but still)
and another
<a href='http://www.saveourcivilliberties.org/en/2004/06/404.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.saveourcivilliberties.org/en/2004/06/404.shtml</a>
(despite the website name the article makes a case for and against tasers)
Even if alot of taser deaths are associated with people on drugs remember the police number one priority is to preserve life. Usually tasers are used as a last resort instead of pistols. That officer didnt know what the lady was on. Using his hands was a sure bet and besides he was bigger and stronger and he had help.
He knew the lady wasent holding any dangerous weapons because he could see her hands... at least one was on the cell phone. It was an unneccesary and more lifethreatening move than just yanking her out of the car and putting the cuffs on her. Its a woman for christs sake she isnt going to land any fatal strikes on him. Its not like she had a knife for christs sake.
BTW does anyone know any substances I can poison a dog with? Something I can work into a doggy treat that the dog wont turn its nose up too, something slow. Any links? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that your brother was a victim of a cop's abuse of power doesn't make this officer wrong on his actions.
Also, I'm pretty sure that if your brother has clear chunks out of his leg, the inspecting department can and eventually will go back to the dog. That is, if you can prove that your brother, after running away from an officer, decided to stop and gave himself up, something your brother could have invented, or something too late for the police officer to call back his dog
I don't know in which measures police dogs are used, but they are actually trained to incapacitate victims without physical injuries. The worst you'll get are bruises and scratches from a fall. In any case, if the injuries are serious, I'm pretty confident the law's on your brother's side anyway.
Poisoning the dog is a stupid idea and you're completely idiotic even to bring it up. Even if you were allowed to approach a police dog, and even if you can give him a treat (something that won't happen) and even if the dog TRAINED TO HAVE A GOOD FLAIR doesn't smell what's wrong, and even if he accepts this trick, then not only have you not repaired your brother's prejudice, but you probably have made it worse for both of you. Not to mention you have assaulted and killed a member of the peacekeeping force.
edit:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->He knew the lady wasent holding any dangerous weapons because he could see her hands... at least one was on the cell phone. It was an unneccesary and more lifethreatening move than just yanking her out of the car and putting the cuffs on her. Its a woman for christs sake she isnt going to land any fatal strikes on him. Its not like she had a knife for christs sake.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Common sense might say that she's unarmed, but caution says she's POTENTIALLY ARMED. When you're standing right out of a cardoor, do you know if she doesn't have a knife up her sleeve, a pistol next to her? She can do any brutal movement and, even if she doesn't hurt an officer, it can get dirty and it WILL get dirty. If she decides to slam the door on the officer, that's an officer down on the street, and it's going to be followed with something much more injuring than a taser shot. She's going to be batonned or even shot at.
Remember, he's only following procedure: he's acting to do what he was trained to do. He wasn't answered, therefore he acted following the worst scenario, and acted rightly without the chance of any major incident.
So was it justified to use a taser? Eh, she'll get over it I'm sure, and as I said, maybe she'll learn something. Still, I think there would have been better ways to deal with her such as being compassionate about her situation rather than a 'do what I say or fry' attitude. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When a police officer is going to arrest someone you get the job done, the longer the issue goes on the worse the situation is going to get.
Either you put your hands behind your back or Im going to do it for you.
You give the person verbal commands and warnings to give them the oppertunity to do so voluntarily. You dont sit there and **** around all day. The criminal chooses (just as this woman did) to resist and not comply with the officer.
She chose to go down that road not the officer, who has to react to her actions.
Maam I need to step out of your car...
repeat...
repeat...
repeat...
She chose not come out.
The officer again gave her the oppertunity to get out of the car and he specifically warned her that he would tase her if not.... Several times.
She still chose to not come out.
She was technically resisting from the second she refused the first time. The officer technically could have taken her out right there. But he gave her several more chances. How is that being insensitive?
He used a TASER, she gets shocked for a few seconds, sure it hurts, but its a shock. As quick as it comes, its all done jsut as fast. No longer lasting effects like pepperspray and no scrappes, cuts, bruises, or even possible broken bones from being grabbed in an arm locked and thrown to the pavement from her SUV.
---------------------
And on that comment, about her not being armed, Just because you cant see a weapon on or around someone doesnt mean she isnt. As ive said many times before. there have far too many documented cases where simple traffic stops with seemingly ordinary polite, joking people suddenly pull a pistol or knife or mace from out of nowhere and bad things happen. That SUV was that womans fortress and position of power, where she could be concealing any number of things within easy reach of herself yet out of plain view. Even when you are standing right next to the vehicle. Its not that hard believe me.
I'd be interested to see how the same situation would be dealt with in England, though. I guess she'd probably be offered a cup of tea and a crumpet, right?
BTW does anyone know any substances I can poison a dog with? Something I can work into a doggy treat that the dog wont turn its nose up too, something slow. Any links? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that your brother was a victim of a cop's abuse of power doesn't make this officer wrong on his actions.
Also, I'm pretty sure that if your brother has clear chunks out of his leg, the inspecting department can and eventually will go back to the dog. That is, if you can prove that your brother, after running away from an officer, decided to stop and gave himself up, something your brother could have invented, or something too late for the police officer to call back his dog
I don't know in which measures police dogs are used, but they are actually trained to incapacitate victims without physical injuries. The worst you'll get are bruises and scratches from a fall. In any case, if the injuries are serious, I'm pretty confident the law's on your brother's side anyway.
Poisoning the dog is a stupid idea and you're completely idiotic even to bring it up. Even if you were allowed to approach a police dog, and even if you can give him a treat (something that won't happen) and even if the dog TRAINED TO HAVE A GOOD FLAIR doesn't smell what's wrong, and even if he accepts this trick, then not only have you not repaired your brother's prejudice, but you probably have made it worse for both of you. Not to mention you have assaulted and killed a member of the peacekeeping force. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cant you let a guy be angry? OF COURSE I was not seroius about poisoning the dog. Though if i could get away with it.... No your the idiot for writing that entire paragraph because you obviously cant tell the difference between mock seroiousness and someone actually asking for that information.I really do with something like this would happen to you or a family member then maybe you wouldnt find this **** so cool.
Maybe you didnt read what i typed HE WAS ON THE GROUND AND GIVING HIMSELF UP, at that point it is upon the police officer to restrain the miserable mutt, he intentionally . I know all about the legalities of it, I know its his word versus my brothers but do you think police officers shoud be allowed to torture suspects when they **** them off? A police officer should allow disrespect for them to get in the way of them doing their jobs.
But enough about my case, lets just focus on this lady.
The cop was out of line, plain and simple. He put the woman in unneccesary danger, he could have used a hold or pepperspray but he wanted to try out the brand new taser he just got.
You know if you all like this sort of thing you should check out www.consumptionjunction.com
They have an entire forum to videos like this, thats where I got to see all of the mid east beheadings.
Why do I get the feeling like I am the only one keeping it real in this thread?
[...]
So now she's really scared...on one hand she might be going to court or worse, in her mind. On the other she's being threatened with a gun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well actually I'd think she's quite aware. I don't know what measures are taken to suspend a license, but I think she does know what's coming for her. She's already had troubles, obviously, or she'd be in perfect legality license-wise.
And if she thinks the reason is not sufficient, it makes perfect sense to cooperate. If she's all clean, the cops don't have anything against her. And if she's clean but doesn't cooperate, she can be sent to the station just because of lack of cooperation.
About the "going on the court" you'll notice she's the one who's threatening the cop about going to court. She's not scared at all, she's believing she'll win this trial, in fact she's being very aggressive. She's talking pretty coolly on the phone.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe you didnt read what i typed HE WAS ON THE GROUND AND GIVING HIMSELF UP, at that point it is upon the police officer to restrain the miserable mutt<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes I did read, did you read mine? In fact I'm saying that if you can prove that he was on the ground and giving himself up, then you can sue the officer for unjustified injuries.
But what I see is that:
-The cop wants cooperation.
-Your brother flees for some reason.
-Seeing it's useless, your brother gives up.
-However, the dog, being faster than your brother, is probably already on your brother.
-The police officer can't pull off his dog because he's already on your brother.
Now just look:
If your brother has important wounds, then the police officer didn't follow procedure, so you can sue him. For this, all chances are on your side.
If there is justifiable proof that your brother gave himself up, all the chances are on your side.
However, it's not because he's your brother that he is right. One of the two are right, one of the two are wrong. I can't say which is which, but seeing as how your brother didn't cooperate immediately, then there you go...
Again, however, if there are important wounds: the police officer didn't follow procedure. Use of violence isn't authorized except if he was a threat.
Now back on the lady:
The cop wasn't out of line. The lady was out of line, the cop follows standard procedure. A taser is not "unnecessary danger"
The lady put herself in unnecessary danger, the cops didn't hurt her, while alternatives would have.
True, but she might not have gone down that road if she had been handled differently; verbally that is.
I agree with you though, if you're asked to get out of your car repeatedly by an officer than you damn well do it because there is NO alternative, unless you want to take the trip even further and in which case you're just a bloody fool.
What I am saying though is that I think, with a different approach (or better communication, and by that I don't mean shouting louder), the use of 'force' could have been avoided and it could have been wrapped up quietly and quickly. But it doesn't really matter, anyway. I just hope this woman understands that they did what they felt they had to do.
Yes it is funny
Yes it is disturbing
Yes she did deserve it
Yes she could have been handled without force
Yes the cops could have done it better
Yes the cops did what they had to do
Why can't everyone be right for once? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
We can all see the wide range of opinons spawning from this video.
This brings me to another related aspect.
Media and public perception.
Not to offend anyone here but the vast majoirty Im going to say 95% of the general public are totally clueless about how laws work and even their own rights.
People see law enforcement from TV and the movies, even the news media who love a good story. Im sure you can think of some of these shows.
(btw 75% of the things that happen in that popular TV show CSI is either exageraged to an extreme measure or the things they do are just total BS to begin with.)
Then you can think of all those other shows like Law and Order, etc. People in genral from tv or elsewhere have this exagerated sense of the police, they think that nearly every break in and burglary, assault etc is so easily solved.
People watch COPs etc and think they know all their rights.
Believe it or not people just because you get arrested doesnt mean the police have to read you your miranda rights. They only have to do that under certain criteria.
Anyways back on percieved public perception
This goes for anything else in general not neccisarly this video.
Things are not always as they seem.
Example. If some guy is on meth or something or maybe hes just a really big strong guy (im definitly not the biggest guy lol)..
Well lets say mr. 6 foot 5 inches tall 260 pounds of pure muscle sees that little ol Cpl.Davis is only 5 foot 6 and not 260 and well mr strong bad guy decides he can and wants to kick my ****.
Well if you think Im going to have a fight on my hands, well you bet I am.
If I have to get into a physical confrontation with him no matter what my training its not going to be easy.
If I cant immediatly get him down (all the while still giving him commands to get down) hand to hand Iam most certainly justifed in drawing my expanding baton and (still giving him commands to get down) giving him a good ol whack to the thigh.
Now here is where the public perception comes in.
If I strike this guy 120% in the thigh and possibly I happento break his leg and he goes down and aI cuff him... in reality no one including people like the news who might happen to be taping the incident will really say i was in the wrong. Id probably be on the news saying how police took in a violent suspect.
Now
If maybe i was timid or nervous about the possibility of really hurting him (even though he definitly wants to hurt me) and instead of strikeing him one good time, I hit him several times but very weak, thats going to look a lot different.
In fact. what if they guy is on drugs and jsut doesnt feel the pain? So after I hit him hard nothing happens. So I have to hit him again on the leg, and maybe again. To get him to get down so i can cuff him.
Well any witnesses and the news people are not going to see/ knowall that.
All they are going to see is me hitting the guy once vs me hitting him several times (which both were justtifed and both accomplished the same goal)
Now Ill proabably be all ridiculed and such for beating the guy and using excessive force. Even though that was not the case.
Do you guys see what Im trying to get at here?
Woman picks up knife. Stabs the officer. Second officer shoots the woman, she dies. One officer who <i>could</i> die from bloodloss or a mortal wound, and one dead woman.
<i>You</i> come before the guy you just pulled over, which is why he used a tazer, <b>there were no safer alternatives that do not harm "both parties."</b> As said, he didnt check the vehicle, he doesnt know the woman at all, he doesnt know what shes capable of. This could be a manly crossdresser for all you know.
edit: And for christ sakes, always listen to an officer, <i>even if they are wrong.</i> No, I'm not talking about so far wrong its life dangering wrong, as in wrong in what you did. You take them to court, you deal with it later, not now. <i>Always</i> listen to a police officer.
How exactly would you expect this verbal solution to work? She already told the police that they had no right to stop her. She was completely ignoring them... what combination of words to you think would possibly get her to suddenly begin paying attention to them, let alone follow directions?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->... it could have been wrapped up quietly and quickly<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With all respect to you... watch the video again and listen to her shouting and ignoring the police before the initial attempt to pull her out of the car (which, incidentally, happened before the TASER use). In this very specific and concrete situation, I don't believe there are any magic phrases that will cause sudden understanding on the part of the woman.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just hope this woman understands that they did what they felt they had to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Given the fact that she apparently doesn't think police are allowed to stop people from breaking the law (three traffic violations and she said they had no right to pull her over), I seriously doubt it. She'll probably be telling people about what she sees as a brutal racist police stop for years to come (which, incidentally, is probably how a media outlet became aware of the stop and set up the interview with the training officer).
Davis: how are you trained to restrain a non coperative person?
forcibly draging some one from a car is actualy REALY hard.
Grab and pull?
What if they: Hold on to sometihng, hit their head, face plant on the road when you do get them out?
Pepper Spray?
Ask any one who has been hit with both and you will find out that a tazer is the lesser of the 2 evils. As well as being much more efficent for the officer involved...
and force just escelates form there <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yes the woman was wrong and annoying. The taser could have killed her though, pulling her out of the car and forcibly handcuffing her is by far the best way because it provides the lowest risk of death, better yet pepperspray. You guys dont seem to understand that the taser is POTENTIALLY LETHAL, and as of now still an
This she could have had a knife **** is crap, she was smoking a cigarette (cop askes her to put it out) and talking with a phone in her hand. The cop had the door open before he tased her and could plainly see her hands, this was a powertrip. Dont tell me she could overpower the cop, ok she couldnt shes outsized and outnumbered, your being ridiculous.
As far as her being dangerous before hand maybe, I mean she was speeding, but she was pulled over and stopped, no longer dangerous anymore.
I didnt find that particularly funny.
I dont know why this **** is on the NS forums, i dont come here for this and ive seen lesser discussions moderated but if the admins allow oh well.
Ill give you this the **** WAS WRONG AND STUPID AND ASKING FOR IT, but she shouldnt have gotten tasered, a taser is an alternative to the pistol, not an alternative to the baton or pepperspray.
Quote all the biased sourcs you want, there were half a dozen better ways of handling it. They jumped the gun on using the taser plain and simple.
You guys just like seeing a woman get hurt. It gives you wood. thats some good ol american depravity for ya.
You really have to actually watch this video with the commentary. You are just basing your argument on predetermined notions. This was not a gung-ho cop trying out his new toy. He teaches proper taser use at his department. He knows when the right time to use a taser is because he has to teach other people about it.
And for all you grab and pull people and pepper spray enthusiasts watch the video with the commentary and you will find out how wrong you are.
Edit:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
This she could have had a knife **** is crap, she was smoking a cigarette (cop askes her to put it out) and talking with a phone in her hand. The cop had the door open before he tased her and could plainly see her hands, this was a powertrip. Dont tell me she could overpower the cop, ok she couldnt shes outsized and outnumbered, your being ridiculous. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, anyone can inflict harm on someone else.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
As far as her being dangerous before hand maybe, I mean she was speeding, but she was pulled over and stopped, no longer dangerous anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, a person is always dangerous. A person does not become passive just because she has been pulled over.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Ill give you this the **** WAS WRONG AND STUPID AND ASKING FOR IT, but she shouldnt have gotten tasered, a taser is an alternative to the pistol, not an alternative to the baton or pepperspray.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, it is the alternative to the baton or pepperspray.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
You guys just like seeing a woman get hurt. It gives you wood. thats some good ol american depravity for ya. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
correct, I fapped off at this. This is how I get my kicks.</sarcasm>
maybe someone can cut your argument a bit better then I did.
Davis: how are you trained to restrain a non coperative person?
forcibly draging some one from a car is actualy REALY hard.
Grab and pull?
What if they: Hold on to sometihng, hit their head, face plant on the road when you do get them out?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it all depends on how uncooperative they want to be.
Remember though that 99% of people are realitivly cooperative so things like this dont happen to often. Or you can just talk them down.
Talking is always good, it can really help you defuse something or make it worse,
If some of you want to debate the cops verbal skills in this video go right ahead but regardless it was a different thing entirely when the woman refused to obey his lawful orders.
Im sure the officer in this video doesnt TASER every person he sees lol. We are only seeing this one incident. Im sure none of you would be interested with following him around and seeing jsut how boring his nomral day really is.
You have to use the approapriate amount of force (rememer an officer standing there or jsut speaking is considered the minimum amount of force.)
Lets say I need to handcuff someone.
If someone is passivily resisting.
As in they are not fighting they just wont put their hands behind their back.
Also remember im always using verbal commands, even up to the point if I have my gun pointed at them.
It might be just enough for me to gently but firmly grasp their arm/hand and put it there. That in itself is considered a very low level of force.
Now you can go all the way up the line in regards to them resisting more and more.
You can also use a variety of arm bars, and joint/wrist locks to hold someone or to walk them elsewhere or to get their hands where they need to be. But now you are getting more into defensive tactics where its gotten to the point where you are involved in an fight.
If they want to activly fight they are going to end up prone on the ground so you can cuff them from there. Then you can get them up if its ok and sit them in the back of your car etc.
And yea usually if you have to drag someone out of their car its a good chance its going to get ugly, they are sitting there, the only way they can get out assuming they dont turn to the side and move their legs is to go out sideways. So they are most likely going to get turned around and get their feet stuck in the car fall on the ground.
And yea that assuming they arnt so huge you cant easitly get them out, they dont grab onto something, hit their head on the way out, etc lots of problems can happen with doing that but sometimes when stuff goes down hill fast that might be your only option.
And you know what, had this officer grabbed this woman and yanked her out and you people saw all the crap that can go along with that I think you would all be saying, Why didnt he just TASER her instead.
Documentary type shows and programs like COPs and worlds wildest police viedos etc only show the minority exciting stuff. COPs film crews sometimes have to spend a good many days riding around trying to find something interesting.
Fights for example are 90% of the time ended or the people run away before you can get there.
I mean, honostly, those shows wouldnt be exciting if they didnt edit out all the traffic stops and calls for service where in the end nothing happens, and assist citizen calls and hundreds of other daily things (and tons of paperworK).
I still hate people.
Yes the woman was wrong and annoying. The taser could have killed her though, pulling her out of the car and forcibly handcuffing her is by far the best way because it provides the lowest risk of death, better yet pepperspray. You guys dont seem to understand that the taser is POTENTIALLY LETHAL, and as of now still an
This she could have had a knife **** is crap, she was smoking a cigarette (cop askes her to put it out) and talking with a phone in her hand. The cop had the door open before he tased her and could plainly see her hands, this was a powertrip. Dont tell me she could overpower the cop, ok she couldnt shes outsized and outnumbered, your being ridiculous.
As far as her being dangerous before hand maybe, I mean she was speeding, but she was pulled over and stopped, no longer dangerous anymore.
I didnt find that particularly funny. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're forgetting that they're facing uncertainty and resistance. Pulling someone forcefully out of the car can go very wrong, you don't know why she stays in the car, why she's not listening to orders.
The taser would not have had more chance of killing her than being pulled out of the car, hitting her head on the edge of the door during her struggle, and dying from possibly blood loss. Both of these cases are possible, but BOTH OF THEM ARE NEGLIGIBLE. You can always find a way to die.
The object is to avoid all injury. She was outnumbered and overpowered, sure, but she can still do something foolish. We don't want a cop hurt, we don't want the woman hurt. She doesn't comply, therefore she's forced to.
In fact, who knows she's not some sort of kung-fu master or something similar? Appearances can be deceiving. I'm not implying that she can kick both cops' ****, but they're facing lack of cooperation. Meaning the woman is hostile and to be treated as such, yet human, and also treated as such. She didn't get bruises, she didn't break any bones, and the cops were uninjured as well.
Smoking doesn't prevent you from having weaponry. She could have a knife in her sleeve, a pistol next to her, who knows. Again, worst-case scenario.
(edit: something stupid like throwing her cigarette in the cop's face then trying to kick him)
I didn't find this funny at all, but I still think that the cop was justified in his actions. I hate seeing anyone getting hurt, which is actually why I agree with the cop's actions.
I'm not American and I'm completely against easily-obtainable weaponry (because no matter good intentions, some weapons will fall in bad hands) but I think the woman acted stupidly and the cops acted correctly given the situation.
The trained police officer in this thread doesn't agree, and neither does the training officer who also gives concrete reasons for his opinion in the linked content.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I dont know why this **** is on the NS forums, i dont come here for this and ive seen lesser discussions moderated but if the admins allow oh well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody's forcing you to read or respond to this thread. If you don't like it, remove yourself from it. Pretty simple really.
I didn't find the video funny either--depressing and annoying, maybe, but not funny. That doesn't mean, however, that it's time to shout down all dissenting opinions.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote all the biased sourcs you want, there were half a dozen better ways of handling it. They jumped the gun on using the taser plain and simple.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, the law enforecement community as a whole and every piece of research that disagrees with you is wrong, we get it. You asked if somebody in this thread has been hit with a TASER and can speak from experience, and the answer is yes. Feel free to continue ignoring him.
As an actual police officer has already stated in this thread, the officers in the video were following departamental policies so there is no debate over whether he was within the rules. If you want to be angry at the rules, go ahead.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You guys just like seeing a woman get hurt. It gives you wood. thats some good ol american depravity for ya.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Trolling or tantrum?
Tazer is more effective, yet hurts less.
Pepper spray sticks around for a long time, and will NOT stop some one actualy trying to resist.
oh, and I don't find the vid funny.
I find the people that keep on insisting that the Taser was to much force, then suggest ussing more.
From what I saw and from my own knoweldge and training etc.
He could have TASERED or he could have yanked her out of there. Now we are in the field of officer discretion.
Choosing the best reponse to the situation.
He could and would have been justified in going down three paths
1. talking some more which already wasnt being effective and would probably lead to 2 or 3 anyways.
2. TASER
3. hands on appraoch.
He chose the 2nd choice over the more physical approach and that is the end of it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The trained police officer in this thread doesn't agree, and neither does the training officer who also gives concrete reasons for his opinion in the linked content.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I dont know why this **** is on the NS forums, i dont come here for this and ive seen lesser discussions moderated but if the admins allow oh well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody's forcing you to read or respond to this thread. If you don't like it, remove yourself from it. Pretty simple really.
I didn't find the video funny either--depressing and annoying, maybe, but not funny. That doesn't mean, however, that it's time to shout down all dissenting opinions.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote all the biased sourcs you want, there were half a dozen better ways of handling it. They jumped the gun on using the taser plain and simple.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, the law enforecement community as a whole and every piece of research that disagrees with you is wrong, we get it. You asked if somebody in this thread has been hit with a TASER and can speak from experience, and the answer is yes. Feel free to continue ignoring him.
As an actual police officer has already stated in this thread, the officers in the video were following departamental policies so there is no debate over whether he was within the rules. If you want to be angry at the rules, go ahead.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You guys just like seeing a woman get hurt. It gives you wood. thats some good ol american depravity for ya.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Trolling or tantrum? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Go. Cagey.
And you too Cpl. Davis! <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' /><!--endemo-->