Thank god I live in a country where violence isn't that much of an issue. Even the worst off schools don't need weapons to dispell the crowds, I mean... Tase a student?
Pulling a taser on someone armed with a gun is a very bad idea, though. People are MUCH more likely to shoot if they feel threatened, and a taser is a really weak weapon compared to a gun. And aren't they pretty much guaranteed to pull the trigger when they start convulsing if you taser them?
<!--QuoteBegin-Antrel+Jun 16 2005, 02:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Antrel @ Jun 16 2005, 02:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I could name off a list of South Chicago schools that are much worse than yours. But that's another issue. I, personally, after having seen guns drawn by students several times in the school, don't have too many objections to tasers when absolutely needed. My only concern is the person having it using it whenever anything happens. I'd like it a lot better if they could be taught how to physically restrain someone rather than shoot them with a taser. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm pretty sure most teachers are already trained in physical restraining techniques.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
<!--QuoteBegin-NumbersNotFound+Jun 16 2005, 02:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NumbersNotFound @ Jun 16 2005, 02:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Antrel+Jun 16 2005, 02:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Antrel @ Jun 16 2005, 02:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I could name off a list of South Chicago schools that are much worse than yours. But that's another issue. I, personally, after having seen guns drawn by students several times in the school, don't have too many objections to tasers when absolutely needed. My only concern is the person having it using it whenever anything happens. I'd like it a lot better if they could be taught how to physically restrain someone rather than shoot them with a taser. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm pretty sure most teachers are already trained in physical restraining techniques. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> really? I dont know of any that are in public schools or private for that matter unless its for some juvinile detention type of institute.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If someone is trying to kill me obviously, im definitly going do my best to get him first. The goal of every police officer is go home safe at the end of their shift.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This disturbs me, because I don't think it's as simple as "kill him before he kills me". Cops know this, but people don't realize that if you're going to shoot someone, aim somewhere NON-LETHAL. I doubt many of us have been shot, but I think it's safe to say that if you get your shot in on say the guy's arm or hand, he's gonna be paralyzed with pain. If he still has the gun in his hand, you have some time to work with to either disarm him or shoot him somewhere else before he knows what hit him. I say this because I really do think some people's instincts are to shoot to kill the other guy <insert "HEAD SHOT!" sound clip>. This is part of the reason why I don't advocate guns <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you think kids should have tasers, you are out of your **************** mind. I'm talking any group of kids that you want to select. The geeks and picked on kids are the ones shooting up places, need I remind you. I guarantee you if they were given to a group of kids, at least one kid from each school would test it on somebody or something, and you'll have local disasters everywhere. You can't possibly appoint one group of kids as superior to the others, and you certainly don't want to give everybody one.
As for officers, I like it. It's a better alternative than guns and spray since it's efficient with less death/any unnecessary force (ie not being able to see hours after being arrested).
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Splinter Steve?+Jun 16 2005, 03:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Splinter Steve? @ Jun 16 2005, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If someone is trying to kill me obviously, im definitly going do my best to get him first. The goal of every police officer is go home safe at the end of their shift.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This disturbs me, because I don't think it's as simple as "kill him before he kills me". Cops know this, but people don't realize that if you're going to shoot someone, aim somewhere NON-LETHAL. I doubt many of us have been shot, but I think it's safe to say that if you get your shot in on say the guy's arm or hand, he's gonna be paralyzed with pain. If he still has the gun in his hand, you have some time to work with to either disarm him or shoot him somewhere else before he knows what hit him. I say this because I really do think some people's instincts are to shoot to kill the other guy <insert "HEAD SHOT!" sound clip>. This is part of the reason why I don't advocate guns <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Guns are not point and click weapons. This isn't like a quake railgun. For most people trained with a weapon, if you are in any intense situation whatsoever, aiming for the center of your target is just about the only way you are going to have a chance at hitting them. In general, police report firing 5 to 10 rounds per hit, and in Vietnam they estimated that they were firing 250,000 rounds per kill.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A likely compromise to banning the stun guns would be to order officers to use the devices only in cases where lethal force is needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Use your non-lethal weapons only in cases where lethal force is needed." Anyone else see a problem with that logic? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also, I agree with Moultano. In theory, you can "aim to kill", "aim to disarm", etc, but in practice most people will just "aim to hit." So you shoot somewhere near the middle of the torso just because thats the biggst target.
(Not to say there aren't fabulous shots that can aim for someones hand and hit it reliably, just that they aren't too common)
The average cop + badguy scene results in both emptying their pistols with even GRAZING the other
CQC is VERY difficult due to the huge ammounts of adrenaline rushing thru ones body. It takes intense training and a calm mind to fully master that art!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This disturbs me, because I don't think it's as simple as "kill him before he kills me". Cops know this, but people don't realize that if you're going to shoot someone, aim somewhere NON-LETHAL. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What do you mean "Cops know this?" Where did you hear that they "know" to aim somewhere non-lethal?
LEO are trained to shoot center mass just like the military and civilians who are training to get their carry permit.
Aiming to wound is a good way to get yourself killed, and if you do survive, it's a good way to get yourself in trouble legally.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I doubt many of us have been shot, but I think it's safe to say that if you get your shot in on say the guy's arm or hand, he's gonna be paralyzed with pain. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That has little to no basis of truth to it. It sounds like you're just guessing.
Bullets, most especially from handguns, are not as effective as you seem to think they are with regards to stopping somebody. This is not counterstrike where you get "stunned" and can't move for a second. This is not the movies where you get thrown back when someone busts a cap into you with a "glock fortee".
How a person reacts to getting hit varies widely; in my rather limited experience I've seen people go down almost immediately, and those who absorb almost a dozen before going down. It all depends on where you hit the suspect, what you hit the suspect with, and the mindset of the suspect.
There have been instances where a suspect has been hit multiple times in vital places; he is fatally wounded, but still manages to kill someone before he goes.
Further, it's difficult to hit the target at all under high stress situations, much less aiming for a specific point that is "non lethal". (I put it in quotes because dispite the movies, a leg/arm/shoulder shot can still cause you to bleed out in short order if it hits major arteries)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A likely compromise to banning the stun guns would be to order officers to use the devices only in cases where lethal force is needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why is that a compromise? The entire purpose of less lethal tools is to be part of the force continuum; something you can use to deescalate a situation before it turns into an issue that requires lethal force. If you give them a tazer and say it can only be used if lethal force is justified, it will never be used, because they already have a tool for that; the sidearm. It's redundant to give them a tool that has the same requirements before use as a sidearm.
That's like saying "Officers shouldn't be allowed to use pepper spray, unless lethal force is needed"
As far as school officers and what they should carry goes, the officers at the schools I've attended are fully sworn LEO's and carry what patrol officers carry, including sidearms, into school. I kinda find it odd that some people are so shocked at the idea, but I guess it's different where they live.
<!--QuoteBegin-Splinter Steve?+Jun 16 2005, 03:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Splinter Steve? @ Jun 16 2005, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This disturbs me, because I don't think it's as simple as "kill him before he kills me". Cops know this, but people don't realize that if you're going to shoot someone, aim somewhere NON-LETHAL. I doubt many of us have been shot, but I think it's safe to say that if you get your shot in on say the guy's arm or hand, he's gonna be paralyzed with pain. If he still has the gun in his hand, you have some time to work with to either disarm him or shoot him somewhere else before he knows what hit him. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Under adrenaline some pretty amazing things happen.
For example I've read many accounts from soviets in Afghanistan about how fataly wounded Afghan combatants would continue to fight.
There was a bank robbery not too long ago here where the security guard managed to wound both robbers. However one robber recovered a gun (which he dropped when shot) and unfortunately managed to kill the heroic security gaurd.
The thing is you have to remember that we're talking about life and death here. The body goes into extreme overdrive mode and literally transforms itself into a state that is able to accept much more punishment than it normally would be able to handle.
To illustrate the above, here is a video of a cop shooting himself during a training session. Notice that he just carries on with the training as if its just a minor inconvenience! <a href='http://www.wimp.com/shoots/' target='_blank'>link</a>
Lol we make mini tazers in my electronics class using capacitors all the time. We cut the leads short so they dont short out and charge them, hide them, then walk up to someone and touch it to them. Pop! your shocked. Its kinda funny because the sound is worse than the shock itself <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Personally, I think all teachers should have stunguns to shock students when they get out of hands/extremly mouthy. Would be teh awesome to see the class 'gangsta' get shocked to the ground <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-FilthyLarry+Jun 17 2005, 03:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FilthyLarry @ Jun 17 2005, 03:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To illustrate the above, here is a video of a cop shooting himself during a training session. Notice that he just carries on with the training as if its just a minor inconvenience! <a href='http://www.wimp.com/shoots/' target='_blank'>link</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Does he shoot himself to prove his point??
<!--QuoteBegin-Drfuzzy+Jun 16 2005, 09:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Drfuzzy @ Jun 16 2005, 09:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Lol we make mini tazers in my electronics class using capacitors all the time. We cut the leads short so they dont short out and charge them, hide them, then walk up to someone and touch it to them. Pop! your shocked. Its kinda funny because the sound is worse than the shock itself <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> BBQ ingiter switches are far better. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But on topic, if you need to have Tazers in school, something is severely screwed up, and putting in Tazers wont fix a damn thing. If school officials would stop looking for the quick fix and actually research solutions to the ignition point of the problem, there would be ALOT less of a reason to put these sorts of things into such a densely populated area...
<!--QuoteBegin-Cereal KillR+Jun 17 2005, 05:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal KillR @ Jun 17 2005, 05:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-FilthyLarry+Jun 17 2005, 03:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FilthyLarry @ Jun 17 2005, 03:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To illustrate the above, here is a video of a cop shooting himself during a training session. Notice that he just carries on with the training as if its just a minor inconvenience! <a href='http://www.wimp.com/shoots/' target='_blank'>link</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Does he shoot himself to prove his point?? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In a manner of speaking...his point was that the gun wasn't loaded. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But when he fired it to prove it, and it actually went off, his point changed to, "See, anyone can make a mistake and cause an accident." But you couldn't really tell from the video if he actually hit himself or not. I didn't see much blood anyway.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited June 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-Maveric+Jun 17 2005, 06:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maveric @ Jun 17 2005, 06:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> BBQ ingiter switches are far better. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> OT: What does BBQ mean in this context?
Edit: Nevermind, I'm retarded. I've been trying for a while though to figure out what the BBQ means in OMGWTHBBQ etc. If anyone knows, send the information my way. I can't seem to find it anywhere.
I'm talking in any situation where you'd be able to use a tazer (I.E. relatively close range) but had a gun. My only point is that it doesn't always have to be "kill him before he kills me", as some people make any self-defense situations out to be. Like the hick that blows away the running thief with a shotgun so he never comes back, then wins in court via a plea of self-defense.
I've seen that misfire video before...hilarious. What an idiot...WHO WOULDN'T CHECK TO SEE IF IT'S LOADED FIRST? Especially when that's what he's lecturing on! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Sirus+Jun 17 2005, 12:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ Jun 17 2005, 12:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think he just means the barbecue igniter. I don't think there's a "special" context. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You are correct.
They give a startling shock. Nothing like a tazer, but if put near the spine and pressed to create a electrical spark it would certainly get their attention.
Could a Taser ignite a flammable material? What if the suspect was filling his car with gas at the filling station ... if the cops Tasered him could the spark start a fire?
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
edited June 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 18 2005, 02:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 18 2005, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Could a Taser ignite a flammable material? What if the suspect was filling his car with gas at the filling station ... if the cops Tasered him could the spark start a fire? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If there were any chance that something bad like that could possible happen we woudlnt use the TASER to begin with.
<!--QuoteBegin-CplDavis+Jun 18 2005, 04:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CplDavis @ Jun 18 2005, 04:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 18 2005, 02:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 18 2005, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Could a Taser ignite a flammable material? What if the suspect was filling his car with gas at the filling station ... if the cops Tasered him could the spark start a fire? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If there were any chance that something bad like that could possible happen we woudlnt use the TASER to begin with.
Police arnt dumb ya know <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Forget about the "known" and focus on the "unknown". I'll restate the question for clarity.
Is it possible for the sparks emitted from a Taser to ignite an undetectable source? For the sake of argument let's assume the officer is absolutely beyond the shadow of a doubt 110% unaware of a combustible source in the area.
-DO NOT FIRE THE ADVANCED TASER NEAR FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS AND FUMES. THE ADVANCED TASER CAN IGNITE GASOLINE OR OTHER FLAMMABLES. SOME SELF-DEFENSE SPRAYS ARE FLAMMABLE AND WOULD BE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TO USE IN CONJUNCTION WITH ADVANCED TASER. -
Personally, I say deck the officers out. Taser, pepper spray, baton, firearm. None of the four tools I just listed are a catch all, and sometimes it's simply better to use something else.
Thanks. This is interesting.... <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->SOME SELF-DEFENSE SPRAYS ARE FLAMMABLE AND WOULD BE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TO USE IN CONJUNCTION WITH ADVANCED TASER. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Code9Bored and running out of ammunition.Join Date: 2003-11-29Member: 23740Members
And Sake, yes, he really did shoot himself. And no, it won't suck living it down, because he WON'T live it down. Ever. If he turns 100 there are going to be 100 little icing-made cartridges on his cake.
<!--QuoteBegin-Legionnaired+Jun 13 2005, 10:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jun 13 2005, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Issue them to every student with above a 3.2 GPA, or every member of National Honors Society, and teach them how to use it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This would encourage kids to get good grades, else they would be weaponless. Great idea. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Jun 19 2005, 06:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Jun 19 2005, 06:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Legionnaired+Jun 13 2005, 10:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jun 13 2005, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Issue them to every student with above a 3.2 GPA, or every member of National Honors Society, and teach them how to use it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This would encourage kids to get good grades, else they would be weaponless. Great idea. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I suppose tazers in the playground would make for an interesting game of freeze tag.
<!--QuoteBegin-Seph Kimara+Jun 19 2005, 05:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Seph Kimara @ Jun 19 2005, 05:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Jun 19 2005, 06:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Jun 19 2005, 06:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Legionnaired+Jun 13 2005, 10:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jun 13 2005, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Issue them to every student with above a 3.2 GPA, or every member of National Honors Society, and teach them how to use it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This would encourage kids to get good grades, else they would be weaponless. Great idea. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I suppose tazers in the playground would make for an interesting game of freeze tag. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> "School of Shock."
<!--QuoteBegin-BulletHead+Jun 15 2005, 05:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BulletHead @ Jun 15 2005, 05:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Jun 15 2005, 12:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Jun 15 2005, 12:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BulletHead+Jun 15 2005, 12:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BulletHead @ Jun 15 2005, 12:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Jun 13 2005, 11:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Jun 13 2005, 11:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And...this is necessary, because? I'm sorry, but I don't see any gang violence in my school. The only messed up kids around here are stoners and drunks, and tasers really wouldn't help with them... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Come to CD
In CD High School, we see, on average
14 fist fights 1 armed fight (eg, knives) 5"cat" fights 1 bomb threat 2 arrests for drug use/posession/selling 1 arrest for misc reasons
a WEEK <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Alright, fine then. When was the last time students did any of those when a teacher or "SRO" was anywhere close, and could have gotten there in time to shock the crap outta the offending students? My thought is, if the kids want to fight, a guy with a taser isn't going to stop them, just like a hall monitor doesn't stop kids from sneaking out and into the high school. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, a knife fight broke out with the school officer standing there.
I watched the entire thing unfold... it got scary when she drew her 9 mm and DEMANDED they stop fighting, and they STILL didn't stop. It didn't end till the one kid cut the other from the lower left of his chin up to the right of his nose. *sighs* I hate my school.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> O_o
You've got one screwed up school, right there dude. Forget getting good grades, I'd just try to make it through 4 years of that alive.
Comments
I'm pretty sure most teachers are already trained in physical restraining techniques.
I'm pretty sure most teachers are already trained in physical restraining techniques. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
really? I dont know of any that are in public schools or private for that matter unless its for some juvinile detention type of institute.
Anyone else have any info on that?
This disturbs me, because I don't think it's as simple as "kill him before he kills me". Cops know this, but people don't realize that if you're going to shoot someone, aim somewhere NON-LETHAL. I doubt many of us have been shot, but I think it's safe to say that if you get your shot in on say the guy's arm or hand, he's gonna be paralyzed with pain. If he still has the gun in his hand, you have some time to work with to either disarm him or shoot him somewhere else before he knows what hit him. I say this because I really do think some people's instincts are to shoot to kill the other guy <insert "HEAD SHOT!" sound clip>. This is part of the reason why I don't advocate guns <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you think kids should have tasers, you are out of your **************** mind. I'm talking any group of kids that you want to select. The geeks and picked on kids are the ones shooting up places, need I remind you. I guarantee you if they were given to a group of kids, at least one kid from each school would test it on somebody or something, and you'll have local disasters everywhere. You can't possibly appoint one group of kids as superior to the others, and you certainly don't want to give everybody one.
As for officers, I like it. It's a better alternative than guns and spray since it's efficient with less death/any unnecessary force (ie not being able to see hours after being arrested).
This disturbs me, because I don't think it's as simple as "kill him before he kills me". Cops know this, but people don't realize that if you're going to shoot someone, aim somewhere NON-LETHAL. I doubt many of us have been shot, but I think it's safe to say that if you get your shot in on say the guy's arm or hand, he's gonna be paralyzed with pain. If he still has the gun in his hand, you have some time to work with to either disarm him or shoot him somewhere else before he knows what hit him. I say this because I really do think some people's instincts are to shoot to kill the other guy <insert "HEAD SHOT!" sound clip>. This is part of the reason why I don't advocate guns <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Guns are not point and click weapons. This isn't like a quake railgun. For most people trained with a weapon, if you are in any intense situation whatsoever, aiming for the center of your target is just about the only way you are going to have a chance at hitting them. In general, police report firing 5 to 10 rounds per hit, and in Vietnam they estimated that they were firing 250,000 rounds per kill.
"Use your non-lethal weapons only in cases where lethal force is needed." Anyone else see a problem with that logic? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also, I agree with Moultano. In theory, you can "aim to kill", "aim to disarm", etc, but in practice most people will just "aim to hit." So you shoot somewhere near the middle of the torso just because thats the biggst target.
(Not to say there aren't fabulous shots that can aim for someones hand and hit it reliably, just that they aren't too common)
CQC is VERY difficult due to the huge ammounts of adrenaline rushing thru ones body. It takes intense training and a calm mind to fully master that art!
What do you mean "Cops know this?" Where did you hear that they "know" to aim somewhere non-lethal?
LEO are trained to shoot center mass just like the military and civilians who are training to get their carry permit.
Aiming to wound is a good way to get yourself killed, and if you do survive, it's a good way to get yourself in trouble legally.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I doubt many of us have been shot, but I think it's safe to say that if you get your shot in on say the guy's arm or hand, he's gonna be paralyzed with pain. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That has little to no basis of truth to it. It sounds like you're just guessing.
Bullets, most especially from handguns, are not as effective as you seem to think they are with regards to stopping somebody. This is not counterstrike where you get "stunned" and can't move for a second. This is not the movies where you get thrown back when someone busts a cap into you with a "glock fortee".
How a person reacts to getting hit varies widely; in my rather limited experience I've seen people go down almost immediately, and those who absorb almost a dozen before going down. It all depends on where you hit the suspect, what you hit the suspect with, and the mindset of the suspect.
There have been instances where a suspect has been hit multiple times in vital places; he is fatally wounded, but still manages to kill someone before he goes.
Further, it's difficult to hit the target at all under high stress situations, much less aiming for a specific point that is "non lethal". (I put it in quotes because dispite the movies, a leg/arm/shoulder shot can still cause you to bleed out in short order if it hits major arteries)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A likely compromise to banning the stun guns would be to order officers to use the devices only in cases where lethal force is needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why is that a compromise? The entire purpose of less lethal tools is to be part of the force continuum; something you can use to deescalate a situation before it turns into an issue that requires lethal force. If you give them a tazer and say it can only be used if lethal force is justified, it will never be used, because they already have a tool for that; the sidearm. It's redundant to give them a tool that has the same requirements before use as a sidearm.
That's like saying "Officers shouldn't be allowed to use pepper spray, unless lethal force is needed"
As far as school officers and what they should carry goes, the officers at the schools I've attended are fully sworn LEO's and carry what patrol officers carry, including sidearms, into school. I kinda find it odd that some people are so shocked at the idea, but I guess it's different where they live.
Under adrenaline some pretty amazing things happen.
For example I've read many accounts from soviets in Afghanistan about how fataly wounded Afghan combatants would continue to fight.
There was a bank robbery not too long ago here where the security guard managed to wound both robbers. However one robber recovered a gun (which he dropped when shot) and unfortunately managed to kill the heroic security gaurd.
The thing is you have to remember that we're talking about life and death here. The body goes into extreme overdrive mode and literally transforms itself into a state that is able to accept much more punishment than it normally would be able to handle.
To illustrate the above, here is a video of a cop shooting himself during a training session. Notice that he just carries on with the training as if its just a minor inconvenience! <a href='http://www.wimp.com/shoots/' target='_blank'>link</a>
Personally, I think all teachers should have stunguns to shock students when they get out of hands/extremly mouthy. Would be teh awesome to see the class 'gangsta' get shocked to the ground <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Does he shoot himself to prove his point??
BBQ ingiter switches are far better. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But on topic, if you need to have Tazers in school, something is severely screwed up, and putting in Tazers wont fix a damn thing. If school officials would stop looking for the quick fix and actually research solutions to the ignition point of the problem, there would be ALOT less of a reason to put these sorts of things into such a densely populated area...
Does he shoot himself to prove his point?? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In a manner of speaking...his point was that the gun wasn't loaded. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But when he fired it to prove it, and it actually went off, his point changed to, "See, anyone can make a mistake and cause an accident." But you couldn't really tell from the video if he actually hit himself or not. I didn't see much blood anyway.
OT: What does BBQ mean in this context?
Edit: Nevermind, I'm retarded. I've been trying for a while though to figure out what the BBQ means in OMGWTHBBQ etc. If anyone knows, send the information my way. I can't seem to find it anywhere.
I've seen that misfire video before...hilarious. What an idiot...WHO WOULDN'T CHECK TO SEE IF IT'S LOADED FIRST? Especially when that's what he's lecturing on! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You are correct.
They give a startling shock. Nothing like a tazer, but if put near the spine and pressed to create a electrical spark it would certainly get their attention.
If there were any chance that something bad like that could possible happen we woudlnt use the TASER to begin with.
Police arnt dumb ya know <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If there were any chance that something bad like that could possible happen we woudlnt use the TASER to begin with.
Police arnt dumb ya know <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Forget about the "known" and focus on the "unknown". I'll restate the question for clarity.
Is it possible for the sparks emitted from a Taser to ignite an undetectable source? For the sake of argument let's assume the officer is absolutely beyond the shadow of a doubt 110% unaware of a combustible source in the area.
<a href='http://www.safetygearhq.com/advanced-taser-owners-manual.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.safetygearhq.com/advanced-taser-owners-manual.htm</a>
-DO NOT FIRE THE ADVANCED TASER NEAR FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS AND FUMES. THE ADVANCED TASER CAN IGNITE GASOLINE OR OTHER FLAMMABLES. SOME SELF-DEFENSE SPRAYS ARE FLAMMABLE AND WOULD BE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TO USE IN CONJUNCTION WITH ADVANCED TASER. -
Personally, I say deck the officers out. Taser, pepper spray, baton, firearm. None of the four tools I just listed are a catch all, and sometimes it's simply better to use something else.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->SOME SELF-DEFENSE SPRAYS ARE FLAMMABLE AND WOULD BE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TO USE IN CONJUNCTION WITH ADVANCED TASER. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This would encourage kids to get good grades, else they would be weaponless. Great idea. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This would encourage kids to get good grades, else they would be weaponless. Great idea. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suppose tazers in the playground would make for an interesting game of freeze tag.
This would encourage kids to get good grades, else they would be weaponless. Great idea. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suppose tazers in the playground would make for an interesting game of freeze tag. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
"School of Shock."
Come to CD
In CD High School, we see, on average
14 fist fights
1 armed fight (eg, knives)
5"cat" fights
1 bomb threat
2 arrests for drug use/posession/selling
1 arrest for misc reasons
a WEEK <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alright, fine then. When was the last time students did any of those when a teacher or "SRO" was anywhere close, and could have gotten there in time to shock the crap outta the offending students? My thought is, if the kids want to fight, a guy with a taser isn't going to stop them, just like a hall monitor doesn't stop kids from sneaking out and into the high school. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, a knife fight broke out with the school officer standing there.
I watched the entire thing unfold... it got scary when she drew her 9 mm and DEMANDED they stop fighting, and they STILL didn't stop. It didn't end till the one kid cut the other from the lower left of his chin up to the right of his nose. *sighs* I hate my school.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
O_o
You've got one screwed up school, right there dude. Forget getting good grades, I'd just try to make it through 4 years of that alive.