This is the most useless, most horrible idea I've ever heard. From Sony's perspective anyway, they're shooting themselves in the foot with a Stinger.
Who uses Loon-eeex anyway? People like Moultano or Caboose, Computer Science majors or people who just like fidding with their computer to get it working exactly how they want it, and have the time to do just that.
Now, look at the average console user. They didn't buy a PC that was upgradable, that offered free mods and total conversions and demos, they bought a game machine that they can sit down and play with thier friends with. Keep in mind that a good <b>48% of all console users are under the age of 18!</b>
People who buy consoles don't care about Loon-eeex on their systems. And even if they do, they have a computer that they can put Loon-eex on and do whatever they wish with it.
Do you really think people are going to mod the PS3? Why would they? Why would someone code Natural Selection as a mod for Daikatana? There is not enough public interest for anything worthwhile to be made, and those few bits that are will only appeal to the uber-geek niche, who already run Loon-eeex anyway.
Having a hard drive as default to the PS3 isn't going to be cost effective. As Sony's expertise is miniturization and increasing margins. They might even allow commoddity hard drives to function!?
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Legionnaired+Jun 10 2005, 03:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jun 10 2005, 03:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is the most useless, most horrible idea I've ever heard. From Sony's perspective anyway, they're shooting themselves in the foot with a Stinger.
Who uses Loon-eeex anyway? People like Moultano or Caboose, Computer Science majors or people who just like fidding with their computer to get it working exactly how they want it, and have the time to do just that.
Now, look at the average console user. They didn't buy a PC that was upgradable, that offered free mods and total conversions and demos, they bought a game machine that they can sit down and play with thier friends with. Keep in mind that a good <b>48% of all console users are under the age of 18!</b>
People who buy consoles don't care about Loon-eeex on their systems. And even if they do, they have a computer that they can put Loon-eex on and do whatever they wish with it.
Do you really think people are going to mod the PS3? Why would they? Why would someone code Natural Selection as a mod for Daikatana? There is not enough public interest for anything worthwhile to be made, and those few bits that are will only appeal to the uber-geek niche, who already run Loon-eeex anyway.
Sony is wasting their time and money on this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't get it.
It doesn't cost them anything to put linux on it, besides the basic overhead of making the install discs.
I'm assuming you aren't going to have to navigate through an interface to start playing your games. You'll just put in the disc as per normal.
IBM I'm sure put in the capital to port linux to the cell architecture. No cost for Sony on that end.
If someone has to take a pre-packaged version of Linux and configure all of their own hardware individually, don't you think you're going to have to do some of that re-coding and re-tooling of the kernel to get it to work on the PS2? And, not only that, but be able to be 100% compatable with every game, with absolutely 0 chance of hardware or software conflict? (It is a console, after all.)
And, do you honestly think that the code is going to materialize out of thin air? Let's face it, all the linux fanboys in the world aren't going to have the credibility needed to put out a product; Sony's going to need to do it themselves, and that's going to add to the production costs.
<!--QuoteBegin-Legionnaired+Jun 10 2005, 12:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jun 10 2005, 12:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If someone has to take a pre-packaged version of Linux and configure all of their own hardware individually, don't you think you're going to have to do some of that re-coding and re-tooling of the kernel to get it to work on the PS2? And, not only that, but be able to be 100% compatable with every game, with absolutely 0 chance of hardware or software conflict? (It is a console, after all.)
And, do you honestly think that the code is going to materialize out of thin air? Let's face it, all the linux fanboys in the world aren't going to have the credibility needed to put out a product; Sony's going to need to do it themselves, and that's going to add to the production costs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, they released a customized PS2 linux distribution and IBM is hosting a Cell conference at <a href='http://www.linuxtag.org/typo3site/freecongress-details.html?talkid=156' target='_blank'>LinuxTag2005</a>.
Besides it won't matter because the Game developers will ship the customized sony mini-kernel along with the cd based game, much like currently.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Jun 10 2005, 02:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jun 10 2005, 02:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Jun 10 2005, 01:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Jun 10 2005, 01:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Align+Jun 10 2005, 01:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Jun 10 2005, 01:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So why is this significant? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> My thoughts exactly. I want a game console. I have a bloody PC. The only people who would WANT Linux on their game console already have a computer, I guaranttee you, and most of them probably have Linux on (at least one of) their systems. So....why pay more for something I neither want nor need?
I thought the built-in dvd player was extraneous, but this....SO not worth shelling out extra for this crap. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> paying extra for what? Linux is free. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Doesn't mean Sony won't use this capability as an excuse for bumping the price of the console up. And even if they don't directly do that, the price of the console goes up anyway everytime they add some new unnecessary feature like this, just the simple development costs.
Well, considering that all the hardware is the same, and this version of Linus is made by the people who designed the hardware, I don't think ther'll be a problem there.
And being able to use the PS3 for more than just gaming is nice too. Checking forums and having access to technical support directly from the console via the PS3 Linux distro is one thing I can think of. That, and playing Linux games that already exist.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Legionnaired+Jun 10 2005, 03:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jun 10 2005, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If someone has to take a pre-packaged version of Linux and configure all of their own hardware individually, don't you think you're going to have to do some of that re-coding and re-tooling of the kernel to get it to work on the PS2? And, not only that, but be able to be 100% compatable with every game, with absolutely 0 chance of hardware or software conflict? (It is a console, after all.)
And, do you honestly think that the code is going to materialize out of thin air? Let's face it, all the linux fanboys in the world aren't going to have the credibility needed to put out a product; Sony's going to need to do it themselves, and that's going to add to the production costs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As has been mentioned, IBM has done all the development of the linux kernel for Cell. You might be interested to know that most linux development is not done by "linux fanboys" but by companies who have a vested interest in improving linux for their own use, i.e. IBM, Red Hat, et al. Additionally, I doubt games are going to be touching the linux kernel at all. It might be an option for rapid development projects, but all existing game consoles run games without any OS underneath. Why would this one be any different?
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Jun 10 2005, 03:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jun 10 2005, 03:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The advantage of having linux on the ps3 is that for one thing, most consoles don't have operating systems on them at all. This makes software development for them very difficult and expensive, although the final product can be more optimized. I'd imagine most of the ps3 games aren't going to touch linux at all, and will just run on bare hardware. However, having linux on there opens up an amazing amount of customization to the home user. There is a ton of free software out there for linux, and most of it you can download as source code, and assuming sony releases a compiler for the system, this really allows you to do whatever you want with the box without purchasing an expensive development kit. <a href='http://www.mythtv.org/modules.php?name=MythInfo' target='_blank'>MythTV</a> is one option I've heard mentioned that if it ported effectively, would allow you to turn your ps3 into a TiVo. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The reason consoles don't have operating system is because they're <b>consoles</b>. They're just for games. They execute the game file and play it. The SDK has all that is needed to make and execute a game.
I don't see this changing the price at all. The game still has to have an engine that runs on a non-Linux PlayStation 3. The game still has to have an engine that will run on the non-Linux PlayStation 3. The game still has to be designed, coded, written, and completely built for the non-Linux PlayStation 3.
Customization? If it's anything like the recent Dead or Alive series fiasco, the customizations will be sued out of existance. If it's not fought by Sony, there's a good chance Sony will <b>charge</b> users for the customizations. But even if Sony allows and doesn't charge for customizations, you're forgetting the great expense that is required to run the customization and Linux system. Not only now are the game developers going to be required to design the games for PlayStation 3, but now they'll have to code it to run on Linux, too. And then, if they do support customization, they'll likely have to set up some sort of server to host all the files. That's <b>more</b> manpower and money down the drain.
The fact is that this is a console. It plays games. It plays music, and sometimes it plays DVDs, which was already going too far for what a console needs to do. Now it's going to run computer software? What's the point in this? Developing software on a <i>console</i>? Next a TIVO? Why do we need to have a console that is also a TIVO?! It's supposed to play GAMES, not cook my breakfast!
I'm really getting tired of adding extra, useless features to products to make them seem more appealing. These things often increase or seemingly vindicate the high prices, yet they often don't have any particular strengths. Sony should focus on <b>one</b> thing - gaming - and let their other products in their line do the rest of the audio/visual needs.
Sony Playstation 5: now with included television! When will this insanity end?
Honestly, this really sounds like a little case of overzealous excitement about a mundane feature. It won't help game design, it will increase the workload, it will confuse the non-Linux gamers, and will likely cost more money for the consumer.
<!--QuoteBegin-Legionnaired+Jun 10 2005, 09:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jun 10 2005, 09:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is the most useless, most horrible idea I've ever heard. From Sony's perspective anyway, they're shooting themselves in the foot with a Stinger.
Who uses Loon-eeex anyway? People like Moultano or Caboose, Computer Science majors or people who just like fidding with their computer to get it working exactly how they want it, and have the time to do just that.
Now, look at the average console user. They didn't buy a PC that was upgradable, that offered free mods and total conversions and demos, they bought a game machine that they can sit down and play with thier friends with. Keep in mind that a good <b>48% of all console users are under the age of 18!</b>
People who buy consoles don't care about Loon-eeex on their systems. And even if they do, they have a computer that they can put Loon-eex on and do whatever they wish with it.
Do you really think people are going to mod the PS3? Why would they? Why would someone code Natural Selection as a mod for Daikatana? There is not enough public interest for anything worthwhile to be made, and those few bits that are will only appeal to the uber-geek niche, who already run Loon-eeex anyway.
Sony is wasting their time and money on this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think Sony will have a deal with a Linux distro. and it will advertise the distro. From my perspective both companies should gain extra support and hopefully relations will grow between the two.
From the linux distro's perspective it will allow advertising to a larger branch of people and people will be using their product and may even want to use future products of the companies for their PS3 or even a Linux Distro. PC system.
From Sony's view it will most probably allow them some say in to what goes in to the OS and have a little bit of control on over how it operates. Thus gaining valuable OS creating and coding experience, in the near future we could well see a brand new operatiing system from Sony. I wouldn't put it past Sony to bring out an OS out within the next 10 years.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's supposed to play GAMES, not cook my breakfast!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://members.cox.net/benkarcher/PlayWeber.jpg' target='_blank'>!!!</a>
Anyway...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->From the linux distro's perspective it will allow advertising to a larger branch of people and people will be using their product and may even want to use future products of the companies for their PS3 or even a Linux Distro. PC system.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> They'll be advertising to console users. Console users. A good portion of them can't even break open and work with Windows, much less compiling kernels and scripts just to get the OS to run. Sure, the distributor will already have done this for Sony, but the idea behind the advertising is that the consumers will begin to use Linux on PCs, which is not only beyond most computer users but also probably nearly all console users.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->From Sony's view it will most probably allow them some say in to what goes in to the OS and have a little bit of control on over how it operates. Thus gaining valuable OS creating and coding experience, in the near future we could well see a brand new operatiing system from Sony. I wouldn't put it past Sony to bring out an OS out within the next 10 years. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That means they'll be <i>selling</i> an OS based on open source (that's where their experiences will be from, right?). That will invoke riots, tar-and-featherings, spontaneously combusting nerds, locust swarms, meteor impacts, etc.
What's that word I'm looking for already? Overhyped?
Seriously, most linux users I know only brag about the OS rather than being helpful around. It's not "cool" to have Linux, it's an OS. A good one, why not, but not the omgWTHpwn os-to-end-all-os'es that ony heretics don't use. Once the majority of linux users out there stop their ego-boosting and realize they're not better than other users because they managed to install a certain piece of software, might just be the day I may rethink of using Linux, if only people managed to help rather than pimping out their distro and yelling at you. This goes the same for all generic fanboyism.
But seriously, how can this be OMGOMGOMG FAINT news? It's just a hard drive. With an OS.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
First of all the "Its supposed to play games not cook breakfast" argument is very applicable and popular in the US. Not so in Japan. Because of population density, people in Japan are extremely space conscious, and market research has shown that a significant component of lagging Xbox sales in Japan has been simply due to the size of the unit. If they can offer a platform on which developers can build significant set top box features, they could really make a splash
Also keep in mind that the Xbox 360 is going to be loaded with a windows media center variant. The playstation is doing the open source version of this, which hopefully means they won't be telling you what you are required to do with <i>your</i> hardware. (ie, it will play things other than microsoft supported file types).
On other points: Sony is not going to be releasing an OS. The market is crowded already.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Jun 10 2005, 06:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jun 10 2005, 06:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> First of all the "Its supposed to play games not cook breakfast" argument is very applicable and popular in the US. Not so in Japan. Because of population density, people in Japan are extremely space conscious, and market research has shown that a significant component of lagging Xbox sales in Japan has been simply due to the size of the unit. If they can offer a platform on which developers can build significant set top box features, they could really make a splash
Also keep in mind that the Xbox 360 is going to be loaded with a windows media center variant. The playstation is doing the open source version of this, which hopefully means they won't be telling you what you are required to do with <i>your</i> hardware. (ie, it will play things other than microsoft supported file types).
On other points: Sony is not going to be releasing an OS. The market is crowded already.
Many companies sell linux already. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's very popular in the United States because people think that way, and nothing is wrong for them to think that way. The combo units on sale in the US, for the most part, do neither of their features as well as the dedicated units do. The US is a different country than Japan. Japanese people want tiny electronics; that's fine. But don't then make it sound like the US are somehow wrong for not minding having something large. Perhaps you didn't mean to make it sound like that, but it came off that way to me. "Yes yes yes, the Americans think that way, <i>but the Japanese</i>..." What the Japanese do with their electronics doesn't really apply to my life as an American. I don't want tiny things. I want a fair price and a high quality product. And I don't really appreciate a company telling me "well <i>these</i> folks in a <b>different country</b> like it this way, so you should too".
You bring up the Microsoft comment, and how Linux is better because it gives one more "choice" (quoted because you used that word). Two things on that: first, the average user won't care. Linux isn't as user friendly as Windows. Secondly, in order for Linux to use enable those "choices" you mention, they have to have the same things that Windows needs (such as drivers for hardware). Now, you are correct in the sense that <i>enabling</i> those choices are easier to do on Linux. But every piece of hardware needs a driver, whether it be on Linux, Windows, or an Apple system. In order to play a song or view a video, there has to be a program to run it, regardless of operating system. There aren't more choices with Linux, but rather there are more opportunities to design choices in Linux. This doesn't mean that the average user would care about this: and for those that do, they most likely already have Linux on their home PCs, and don't <i>need</i> this.
But what does that matter to someone wanting to play a game? We're talking about a console here. In order for someone to have a console play music, they'll need a television with speakers or a stereo system. For Americans at least, they won't be satisfied listening to their music on the TV speakers, so they'll likely pipe it through their entertainment system. But if they have an entertainment system, chances are they already have a CD player hooked up to it! That or they have an iPod, if they can afford a $300 or so system! These features that will drive up the cost of the product (or vindicate its high price) are duplicates of what everyone likely already has. It's not needed, and it goes outside the scope of what constitutes a video game system.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Well, lets put it this way. Microsoft is doing this exactly with their Xbox 360, ie, turning it into a media center, and I'm willing to bet that they have done more market research into it than you have.
On choice, I wasn't saying anything about selection of hardware. What I'm saying is that a linux based system is a lot more likely to do things like playing audio files other than wma.
I don't know what your setup is, but in general it seems people are moving towards integrated home theater/ stereo systems, in which a versatile set top box would fit perfectly. A lot of linux geeks are already building them themselves.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Jun 10 2005, 07:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jun 10 2005, 07:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't know what your setup is, but in general it seems people are moving towards integrated home theater/ stereo systems, in which a versatile set top box would fit perfectly. A lot of linux geeks are already building them themselves. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, because they have the option to do so. The thing that frustrates me with these consoles is that they <b>don't</b> give one the option to remove all these features. They don't give the user the option to buy a stripped down model that doesn't even have the <b>potential</b> for these things.
My point is that I'd rather have the option, ironically like a PC, to not have features I don't want installed. If I was in the market for a printer, and I found a printer that did everything I wanted for $90, I wouldn't buy one that played video and audio plus printing for $150! I'd get the one I want.
But these systems come from the standpoint that everybody would want these extra things, so they charge an extreme price for the systems. I want a system to just play games. I thought the CD playing feature on the original PlayStation was overkill. I want the product to do what I bought it to do, and nothing more. I have a tendancy to doubt the quality of a product when extra features seem thrown in to entice the consumer. This is one of those times.
Just like I delete programs I don't want or use from my computer (or never purchase them in the first place), I would like the ability to customize a console so that I wouldn't have to get all the extra stuff I'd never use.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
I can't imagine this is going to increase the cost of the system though. Software has 0 marginal cost. Is the gaming hardware in this going to be any worse because they decide to throw in linux? If this thing has a hard disk and somewhat general purpose processor and ram, and all the necessary IO, its trivial to give it the functionality of a regular PC. They would almost have to intentionally cripple it to not give it that. Why should they?
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Jun 10 2005, 06:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Jun 10 2005, 06:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Linux alone won't add much if anything to the cost. But what Sony plans on doing with it will determine how costly the system will be.
I was speaking of features in general, not just the Linux installation. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Then don't rage against teh linux! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Linux at best is free, normally is the price of the printing + S&H + whatever service, at best a dozen bucks more. Price isn't going to be an issue (for Linux, not the PS3 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->), but that doesn't mean we should all die of happiness at the news.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Jun 11 2005, 12:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jun 11 2005, 12:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> First of all the "Its supposed to play games not cook breakfast" argument is very applicable and popular in the US. Not so in Japan. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Remember also that Breakfast is an essential meal of the day.
well if sony is going to use an operating system why pick anything else but windows that would be great for publicity and would ovr all make the ps3 a more powerful system. they should think of the ps3 as a actual tv station not as a computer or just a console more like a system that does alot more than anyone would expect and as far as that video card thing goes.(suppost to be more powerful then 2 6300 nivida video cards. by march of 2006 there should be more thing comming out 4 it like lerger HDD space and even better graphics . and i hope that nintendo dosent go out of buisness they really messed up not putting good things into the nintendo revolution well im getting off the subject.
<!--QuoteBegin-Anthonium2+Jun 16 2005, 10:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anthonium2 @ Jun 16 2005, 10:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well if sony is going to use an operating system why pick anything else but windows <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Linux is free. Windows costs money. Think cost-effective.
<!--QuoteBegin-Supernorn+Jun 16 2005, 12:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Supernorn @ Jun 16 2005, 12:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> £10 the Playstation 4 runs on some Google based Operating system! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> GOS!
Man, they should make it. They probably are. Somewhere deep inside the Googleplex...
Comments
Who uses Loon-eeex anyway? People like Moultano or Caboose, Computer Science majors or people who just like fidding with their computer to get it working exactly how they want it, and have the time to do just that.
Now, look at the average console user. They didn't buy a PC that was upgradable, that offered free mods and total conversions and demos, they bought a game machine that they can sit down and play with thier friends with. Keep in mind that a good <b>48% of all console users are under the age of 18!</b>
People who buy consoles don't care about Loon-eeex on their systems. And even if they do, they have a computer that they can put Loon-eex on and do whatever they wish with it.
Do you really think people are going to mod the PS3? Why would they? Why would someone code Natural Selection as a mod for Daikatana? There is not enough public interest for anything worthwhile to be made, and those few bits that are will only appeal to the uber-geek niche, who already run Loon-eeex anyway.
Sony is wasting their time and money on this.
Who uses Loon-eeex anyway? People like Moultano or Caboose, Computer Science majors or people who just like fidding with their computer to get it working exactly how they want it, and have the time to do just that.
Now, look at the average console user. They didn't buy a PC that was upgradable, that offered free mods and total conversions and demos, they bought a game machine that they can sit down and play with thier friends with. Keep in mind that a good <b>48% of all console users are under the age of 18!</b>
People who buy consoles don't care about Loon-eeex on their systems. And even if they do, they have a computer that they can put Loon-eex on and do whatever they wish with it.
Do you really think people are going to mod the PS3? Why would they? Why would someone code Natural Selection as a mod for Daikatana? There is not enough public interest for anything worthwhile to be made, and those few bits that are will only appeal to the uber-geek niche, who already run Loon-eeex anyway.
Sony is wasting their time and money on this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't get it.
It doesn't cost them anything to put linux on it, besides the basic overhead of making the install discs.
I'm assuming you aren't going to have to navigate through an interface to start playing your games. You'll just put in the disc as per normal.
IBM I'm sure put in the capital to port linux to the cell architecture. No cost for Sony on that end.
How is this a bad thing?
And, do you honestly think that the code is going to materialize out of thin air? Let's face it, all the linux fanboys in the world aren't going to have the credibility needed to put out a product; Sony's going to need to do it themselves, and that's going to add to the production costs.
And, do you honestly think that the code is going to materialize out of thin air? Let's face it, all the linux fanboys in the world aren't going to have the credibility needed to put out a product; Sony's going to need to do it themselves, and that's going to add to the production costs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, they released a customized PS2 linux distribution and IBM is hosting a Cell conference at <a href='http://www.linuxtag.org/typo3site/freecongress-details.html?talkid=156' target='_blank'>LinuxTag2005</a>.
Besides it won't matter because the Game developers will ship the customized sony mini-kernel along with the cd based game, much like currently.
My thoughts exactly. I want a game console. I have a bloody PC. The only people who would WANT Linux on their game console already have a computer, I guaranttee you, and most of them probably have Linux on (at least one of) their systems. So....why pay more for something I neither want nor need?
I thought the built-in dvd player was extraneous, but this....SO not worth shelling out extra for this crap. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
paying extra for what? Linux is free. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't mean Sony won't use this capability as an excuse for bumping the price of the console up. And even if they don't directly do that, the price of the console goes up anyway everytime they add some new unnecessary feature like this, just the simple development costs.
And being able to use the PS3 for more than just gaming is nice too. Checking forums and having access to technical support directly from the console via the PS3 Linux distro is one thing I can think of. That, and playing Linux games that already exist.
And, do you honestly think that the code is going to materialize out of thin air? Let's face it, all the linux fanboys in the world aren't going to have the credibility needed to put out a product; Sony's going to need to do it themselves, and that's going to add to the production costs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
As has been mentioned, IBM has done all the development of the linux kernel for Cell. You might be interested to know that most linux development is not done by "linux fanboys" but by companies who have a vested interest in improving linux for their own use, i.e. IBM, Red Hat, et al. Additionally, I doubt games are going to be touching the linux kernel at all. It might be an option for rapid development projects, but all existing game consoles run games without any OS underneath. Why would this one be any different?
The reason consoles don't have operating system is because they're <b>consoles</b>. They're just for games. They execute the game file and play it. The SDK has all that is needed to make and execute a game.
I don't see this changing the price at all. The game still has to have an engine that runs on a non-Linux PlayStation 3. The game still has to have an engine that will run on the non-Linux PlayStation 3. The game still has to be designed, coded, written, and completely built for the non-Linux PlayStation 3.
Customization? If it's anything like the recent Dead or Alive series fiasco, the customizations will be sued out of existance. If it's not fought by Sony, there's a good chance Sony will <b>charge</b> users for the customizations. But even if Sony allows and doesn't charge for customizations, you're forgetting the great expense that is required to run the customization and Linux system. Not only now are the game developers going to be required to design the games for PlayStation 3, but now they'll have to code it to run on Linux, too. And then, if they do support customization, they'll likely have to set up some sort of server to host all the files. That's <b>more</b> manpower and money down the drain.
The fact is that this is a console. It plays games. It plays music, and sometimes it plays DVDs, which was already going too far for what a console needs to do. Now it's going to run computer software? What's the point in this? Developing software on a <i>console</i>? Next a TIVO? Why do we need to have a console that is also a TIVO?! It's supposed to play GAMES, not cook my breakfast!
I'm really getting tired of adding extra, useless features to products to make them seem more appealing. These things often increase or seemingly vindicate the high prices, yet they often don't have any particular strengths. Sony should focus on <b>one</b> thing - gaming - and let their other products in their line do the rest of the audio/visual needs.
Sony Playstation 5: now with included television! When will this insanity end?
Honestly, this really sounds like a little case of overzealous excitement about a mundane feature. It won't help game design, it will increase the workload, it will confuse the non-Linux gamers, and will likely cost more money for the consumer.
Who uses Loon-eeex anyway? People like Moultano or Caboose, Computer Science majors or people who just like fidding with their computer to get it working exactly how they want it, and have the time to do just that.
Now, look at the average console user. They didn't buy a PC that was upgradable, that offered free mods and total conversions and demos, they bought a game machine that they can sit down and play with thier friends with. Keep in mind that a good <b>48% of all console users are under the age of 18!</b>
People who buy consoles don't care about Loon-eeex on their systems. And even if they do, they have a computer that they can put Loon-eex on and do whatever they wish with it.
Do you really think people are going to mod the PS3? Why would they? Why would someone code Natural Selection as a mod for Daikatana? There is not enough public interest for anything worthwhile to be made, and those few bits that are will only appeal to the uber-geek niche, who already run Loon-eeex anyway.
Sony is wasting their time and money on this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Sony will have a deal with a Linux distro. and it will advertise the distro. From my perspective both companies should gain extra support and hopefully relations will grow between the two.
From the linux distro's perspective it will allow advertising to a larger branch of people and people will be using their product and may even want to use future products of the companies for their PS3 or even a Linux Distro. PC system.
From Sony's view it will most probably allow them some say in to what goes in to the OS and have a little bit of control on over how it operates. Thus gaining valuable OS creating and coding experience, in the near future we could well see a brand new operatiing system from Sony. I wouldn't put it past Sony to bring out an OS out within the next 10 years.
<a href='http://members.cox.net/benkarcher/PlayWeber.jpg' target='_blank'>!!!</a>
Anyway...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->From the linux distro's perspective it will allow advertising to a larger branch of people and people will be using their product and may even want to use future products of the companies for their PS3 or even a Linux Distro. PC system.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They'll be advertising to console users. Console users. A good portion of them can't even break open and work with Windows, much less compiling kernels and scripts just to get the OS to run. Sure, the distributor will already have done this for Sony, but the idea behind the advertising is that the consumers will begin to use Linux on PCs, which is not only beyond most computer users but also probably nearly all console users.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->From Sony's view it will most probably allow them some say in to what goes in to the OS and have a little bit of control on over how it operates. Thus gaining valuable OS creating and coding experience, in the near future we could well see a brand new operatiing system from Sony. I wouldn't put it past Sony to bring out an OS out within the next 10 years. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That means they'll be <i>selling</i> an OS based on open source (that's where their experiences will be from, right?). That will invoke riots, tar-and-featherings, spontaneously combusting nerds, locust swarms, meteor impacts, etc.
Seriously, most linux users I know only brag about the OS rather than being helpful around. It's not "cool" to have Linux, it's an OS. A good one, why not, but not the omgWTHpwn os-to-end-all-os'es that ony heretics don't use. Once the majority of linux users out there stop their ego-boosting and realize they're not better than other users because they managed to install a certain piece of software, might just be the day I may rethink of using Linux, if only people managed to help rather than pimping out their distro and yelling at you.
This goes the same for all generic fanboyism.
But seriously, how can this be OMGOMGOMG FAINT news? It's just a hard drive. With an OS.
Also keep in mind that the Xbox 360 is going to be loaded with a windows media center variant. The playstation is doing the open source version of this, which hopefully means they won't be telling you what you are required to do with <i>your</i> hardware. (ie, it will play things other than microsoft supported file types).
On other points:
Sony is not going to be releasing an OS. The market is crowded already.
Many companies sell linux already.
Also keep in mind that the Xbox 360 is going to be loaded with a windows media center variant. The playstation is doing the open source version of this, which hopefully means they won't be telling you what you are required to do with <i>your</i> hardware. (ie, it will play things other than microsoft supported file types).
On other points:
Sony is not going to be releasing an OS. The market is crowded already.
Many companies sell linux already. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's very popular in the United States because people think that way, and nothing is wrong for them to think that way. The combo units on sale in the US, for the most part, do neither of their features as well as the dedicated units do. The US is a different country than Japan. Japanese people want tiny electronics; that's fine. But don't then make it sound like the US are somehow wrong for not minding having something large. Perhaps you didn't mean to make it sound like that, but it came off that way to me. "Yes yes yes, the Americans think that way, <i>but the Japanese</i>..." What the Japanese do with their electronics doesn't really apply to my life as an American. I don't want tiny things. I want a fair price and a high quality product. And I don't really appreciate a company telling me "well <i>these</i> folks in a <b>different country</b> like it this way, so you should too".
You bring up the Microsoft comment, and how Linux is better because it gives one more "choice" (quoted because you used that word). Two things on that: first, the average user won't care. Linux isn't as user friendly as Windows. Secondly, in order for Linux to use enable those "choices" you mention, they have to have the same things that Windows needs (such as drivers for hardware). Now, you are correct in the sense that <i>enabling</i> those choices are easier to do on Linux. But every piece of hardware needs a driver, whether it be on Linux, Windows, or an Apple system. In order to play a song or view a video, there has to be a program to run it, regardless of operating system. There aren't more choices with Linux, but rather there are more opportunities to design choices in Linux. This doesn't mean that the average user would care about this: and for those that do, they most likely already have Linux on their home PCs, and don't <i>need</i> this.
But what does that matter to someone wanting to play a game? We're talking about a console here. In order for someone to have a console play music, they'll need a television with speakers or a stereo system. For Americans at least, they won't be satisfied listening to their music on the TV speakers, so they'll likely pipe it through their entertainment system. But if they have an entertainment system, chances are they already have a CD player hooked up to it! That or they have an iPod, if they can afford a $300 or so system! These features that will drive up the cost of the product (or vindicate its high price) are duplicates of what everyone likely already has. It's not needed, and it goes outside the scope of what constitutes a video game system.
On choice, I wasn't saying anything about selection of hardware. What I'm saying is that a linux based system is a lot more likely to do things like playing audio files other than wma.
I don't know what your setup is, but in general it seems people are moving towards integrated home theater/ stereo systems, in which a versatile set top box would fit perfectly. A lot of linux geeks are already building them themselves.
Yes, because they have the option to do so. The thing that frustrates me with these consoles is that they <b>don't</b> give one the option to remove all these features. They don't give the user the option to buy a stripped down model that doesn't even have the <b>potential</b> for these things.
My point is that I'd rather have the option, ironically like a PC, to not have features I don't want installed. If I was in the market for a printer, and I found a printer that did everything I wanted for $90, I wouldn't buy one that played video and audio plus printing for $150! I'd get the one I want.
But these systems come from the standpoint that everybody would want these extra things, so they charge an extreme price for the systems. I want a system to just play games. I thought the CD playing feature on the original PlayStation was overkill. I want the product to do what I bought it to do, and nothing more. I have a tendancy to doubt the quality of a product when extra features seem thrown in to entice the consumer. This is one of those times.
Just like I delete programs I don't want or use from my computer (or never purchase them in the first place), I would like the ability to customize a console so that I wouldn't have to get all the extra stuff I'd never use.
I was speaking of features in general, not just the Linux installation.
I was speaking of features in general, not just the Linux installation. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then don't rage against teh linux! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Remember also that Breakfast is an essential meal of the day.
Linux is free. Windows costs money. Think cost-effective.
GOS!
Man, they should make it. They probably are. Somewhere deep inside the Googleplex...