urinalcakeCan't work a sound cardUnited StatesJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7799Members
<!--QuoteBegin-WaterBoy+Jun 9 2005, 07:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WaterBoy @ Jun 9 2005, 07:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Someone (*cough<b>zunni</b>cough) should pass this along to the devs for them to look at... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Seeing as 3.05 is in uber-beta and shouldn't of even gone public at all, I think they probably know this, and have fixed it or reversed the code.
<!--QuoteBegin-urinalcake+Jun 9 2005, 08:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (urinalcake @ Jun 9 2005, 08:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-WaterBoy+Jun 9 2005, 07:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WaterBoy @ Jun 9 2005, 07:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Someone (*cough<b>zunni</b>cough) should pass this along to the devs for them to look at... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Seeing as 3.05 is in uber-beta and shouldn't of even gone public at all, I think they probably know this, and have fixed it or reversed the code. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Because only taking a few days to find something like this definitely beats taking weeks to do it. God forbid a few <b>volunteers</b> would go through the harrowing experience of finding bugs <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
urinalcakeCan't work a sound cardUnited StatesJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7799Members
Was 3.05 publicly released? Did it say it was a finished build? Sorry if I missed this. The devs probably already caught whim of this and might have fixed it or reversed the code. Thats my point, but of course we wont see this change until a release. 3.05 really doesnt count because it wasn't a widespread public release officially.
If you kept up with "recent" events in a thread that you replied to ... <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What we really need is documented feedback of unwanted effects, or the manifestation of the b6 bug where the hits would not register.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hence, they repeated the same mistake again.
So, the hitbox of the spectator entity may be blocking the line of sight. That is, the code might be missing one of the arguements for LoS detection that has it ignore specific players or items [via one of the numberous "Trace" methods in the HL-SDK].
Our 'new hitboxes' are actually a rewrite of one of the numerous "Trace" methods in the HL-SDK, so we will, in theory, have the option to pass multiple ignore entities to it.
Stay tuned for updates...
big <3 to ultranewb
And no, we did not know about this. We've been reviewing the code and algorithms thinking it was a bug in our own code.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Steel Troll+Jun 10 2005, 09:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Steel Troll @ Jun 10 2005, 09:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Custom title to UltraNewb! Best.Bug.Find.er.Evar! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he would have to share that title with Head Crab ( who found the PSHB, a bug that had existed in all hl1 mods for months )
But as you can see, I was in the process of customising his title anyway <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2005
Can you post a series of reproduction steps what EXACTLY you do to reproduce this in a controlled environment? We attempted to reproduce it by various methods of spectating yesterday after first seeing this thread, but did not manage to reproduce it.
Edit: Never mind, I actually got it backwards <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I was able to reproduce this on the YO-clan server earlier today (the server is reverted back to 3.0.4 to avoid people exploiting this). Worked for every hitscan weapon puzl mentioned, HMG/SG/LMG parasite etc, and i have to add that it was pure comedy gold watching too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Especially the reactions from the players i was spectating (=D)
This through normal spectator mode, not when dead, in game.
I've been complaining about hitbox registration for absolutely ages to the other PT's, to the point where they're sick of hearing about it, and I've never been able to spot the cause.
Does anyone know <i>for certain</i>, does having a dead player go to your view affect things?
If nothing else, it'd explain why I feel it so much with Walking Target, as he often spec's me when he's Admin'ing. Damn you WT, it's your fault!
With regards to the release, it was intentionally distributed to a few of the more known & trusted ops, simply to expand the impact on the playerbase.
I've got a demo to confirm this, I'll upload it when I have time- I'm attacking a sensory chamber with my shotgun, my first shot I was being spectated. You'll notice it deals no damage- it "sparks" off of where the sensory is, but it doesn't even decloak it. I'd also previously attacked a gorge with 8 shells, and it didn't take damage at all. The person stopped speccing me and I killed it in 10 pistol shots, but when they resumed speccing me I was unable to damage the hive or the sensory in the demo.
This is awesome. It goes to show, by the way - this bug has proved elusive all throughout the B6 tests, both with PTs and CMs; some things are just too damn weird to be expected. I'm glad we made this semi-public, there's little chance of finding something like this in anything but a brute force approach - and even then, it takes a slight stroke of genius to come up with the right explanation. Thanks a ton, ultra.
I was playing on a 3.05 server today and I'm not convinced that this is all there is to the bug... I had some HORRIBLE hit reg a few times that I'm almost postive no one was speccin me... I hope at least that when the problem is fixed some more good playtesting is done to see it this is all there was too the bug.
yeah, nsplayers for the win <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
nice one <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> hope that bug can be fixed now <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i think we will remember that kind of bug quite some time
Of course - though, remember, this is only going to be a fix to the hitreg issues introduced to the table by the new code first implemented with B6. There's ample supply of hitreg issues we had nothing to do with <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Jun 10 2005, 07:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jun 10 2005, 07:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Of course - though, remember, this is only going to be a fix to the hitreg issues introduced to the table by the new code first implemented with B6. There's ample supply of hitreg issues we had nothing to do with <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ya, the same old ones we whine about every day, laggy hitboxes and what not... I'm just urging you guys to not count your chickens before they've hatched...
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 10 2005, 12:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 10 2005, 12:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm just urging you guys to not count your chickens before they've hatched... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I wouldn't even count my eggs before they're laid.
I can't even immagine the number of servers putting in a "no spectating" rule because of this <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
nope, thats only for 3.05, and there are only a handful of servers out the only change was the hitbox change afaik, so those servers can go back to 3.04 and everybody can spectate like usually
Comments
--Scythe--
Seeing as 3.05 is in uber-beta and shouldn't of even gone public at all, I think they probably know this, and have fixed it or reversed the code.
Seeing as 3.05 is in uber-beta and shouldn't of even gone public at all, I think they probably know this, and have fixed it or reversed the code. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because only taking a few days to find something like this definitely beats taking weeks to do it. God forbid a few <b>volunteers</b> would go through the harrowing experience of finding bugs <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The devs probably already caught whim of this and might have fixed it or reversed the code. Thats my point, but of course we wont see this change until a release. 3.05 really doesnt count because it wasn't a widespread public release officially.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What we really need is documented feedback of unwanted effects, or the manifestation of the b6 bug where the hits would not register.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hence, they repeated the same mistake again.
*picks jaw up off floor*
Now that is *very* interesting.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
So, the hitbox of the spectator entity may be blocking the line of sight. That is, the code might be missing one of the arguements for LoS detection that has it ignore specific players or items [via one of the numberous "Trace" methods in the HL-SDK].
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Our 'new hitboxes' are actually a rewrite of one of the numerous "Trace" methods in the HL-SDK, so we will, in theory, have the option to pass multiple ignore entities to it.
Stay tuned for updates...
big <3 to ultranewb
And no, we did not know about this. We've been reviewing the code and algorithms thinking it was a bug in our own code.
I think he would have to share that title with Head Crab ( who found the PSHB, a bug that had existed in all hl1 mods for months )
But as you can see, I was in the process of customising his title anyway <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: Never mind, I actually got it backwards <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This through normal spectator mode, not when dead, in game.
I've been complaining about hitbox registration for absolutely ages to the other PT's, to the point where they're sick of hearing about it, and I've never been able to spot the cause.
Does anyone know <i>for certain</i>, does having a dead player go to your view affect things?
If nothing else, it'd explain why I feel it so much with Walking Target, as he often spec's me when he's Admin'ing. Damn you WT, it's your fault!
With regards to the release, it was intentionally distributed to a few of the more known & trusted ops, simply to expand the impact on the playerbase.
- Shockwave
I'm glad we made this semi-public, there's little chance of finding something like this in anything but a brute force approach - and even then, it takes a slight stroke of genius to come up with the right explanation. Thanks a ton, ultra.
nice one <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
hope that bug can be fixed now <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i think we will remember that kind of bug quite some time
ya, the same old ones we whine about every day, laggy hitboxes and what not... I'm just urging you guys to not count your chickens before they've hatched...
I wouldn't even count my eggs before they're laid.
the only change was the hitbox change afaik, so those servers can go back to 3.04 and everybody can spectate like usually