New Comm Tip: Base Layout
Ballisto
Join Date: 2003-05-19 Member: 16503Members
Join Date: 2003-05-19 Member: 16503Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Simple things you may not have noticed</div> Closest thing I found on search:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=88662&hl=base+layout' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....&hl=base+layout</a>
I'm going for a compact, basic guide.
<b>IP and Base PG</b>
Both are structures that marines pop out of; both are structures that aliens chomp on. You want these buildings spaced as far apart from each other as possible - that way the same alien can't cover multiple structures.
<b>Armory</b>
You do not want armory humpers to have their backs to any skulks headed their way. That will lead to ambushed, dead humpers, and live skulks taking down your base. Therefore, put the armory in a spot where humpers easily have a view of the base entrances and can react - usually in the open, and towards the front of your base. Makes adv armory a bit vulnerable yes, but I feel it outweighs the risks - you can always beacon to save your adv armory.
<b>Arms lab/Observatory</b>
Put these important buildings in corners. Why? Putting them in corners makes them harder to take down for two reasons. First, it limits the cover aliens can take - a skulk can hide behind an arms lab that's far from the wall. Second, any alien attacking a building in a corner will have his BACK turned to any spawning/phasing marines looking to kill him.
<b>Remote PG's (PG's not in base)</b>
Pgs are good if dropped in places where marines are strong - high ground, long hallways. A small thing that can make or break a hive rush/seige.
If you intend to protect them with electrification, place them next to a res tower and not a turret factory when possible. Why? An rt has more hit points than a tf, and is that much harder to take down.
<b>Prototype Lab</b>
A proto lab has high hp and is less important that a lot of other buildings, so it isn't a very good target. Don't worry about it.
Good luck with stronger bases!
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=88662&hl=base+layout' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....&hl=base+layout</a>
I'm going for a compact, basic guide.
<b>IP and Base PG</b>
Both are structures that marines pop out of; both are structures that aliens chomp on. You want these buildings spaced as far apart from each other as possible - that way the same alien can't cover multiple structures.
<b>Armory</b>
You do not want armory humpers to have their backs to any skulks headed their way. That will lead to ambushed, dead humpers, and live skulks taking down your base. Therefore, put the armory in a spot where humpers easily have a view of the base entrances and can react - usually in the open, and towards the front of your base. Makes adv armory a bit vulnerable yes, but I feel it outweighs the risks - you can always beacon to save your adv armory.
<b>Arms lab/Observatory</b>
Put these important buildings in corners. Why? Putting them in corners makes them harder to take down for two reasons. First, it limits the cover aliens can take - a skulk can hide behind an arms lab that's far from the wall. Second, any alien attacking a building in a corner will have his BACK turned to any spawning/phasing marines looking to kill him.
<b>Remote PG's (PG's not in base)</b>
Pgs are good if dropped in places where marines are strong - high ground, long hallways. A small thing that can make or break a hive rush/seige.
If you intend to protect them with electrification, place them next to a res tower and not a turret factory when possible. Why? An rt has more hit points than a tf, and is that much harder to take down.
<b>Prototype Lab</b>
A proto lab has high hp and is less important that a lot of other buildings, so it isn't a very good target. Don't worry about it.
Good luck with stronger bases!
Comments
Another thing i've been trying is to group everything as close as you can together against a corner and make a electrified TF in the middle and put the most important structures closest to TF (arms, IPs, obs)
i like to clump all structure together, except the ip. and mine teh place till lame.
The best defense IS a good offense anyway. Rush a hive. Hit their res hard.
And dig this good stuff on mine placement:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=78005' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....ST&f=20&t=78005</a>
And the best base defence is still an outside obs for silent beacon <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> The first hive or location i lock down get's allways an obs so i can beacon without base attackers noticing.
Killed many fades with that ;P
[*]The IP should be as far away from the CC as possible
[*]No structures should be adjacent to or a few steps from the CC (ie, on NS nothing MS, few if any structures should be placed on the raised area.
[*]Armoury cannot simultaneously be in a corner and face the entrances to MS. Comrpomise by placing it in a corner. It will be attacked by skulks far more than the marines humping it, so it's a good compromise. Besides, humpers can hear skulks comming in...
[*]Do not place mines *ON* the IP. See the "mine guide".
[*]Elec is hardly ever worth it except in hive lockdowns.
[/list]
Good simple guide on base layout, although there have been more detailed ones previously.
Edit: Phasing quicker < saving your entire MS from a lone skulk. Besides, if you were to call for a phase, chances are marines are either in MS but not on the IP, or you're beaconing anyway.
[*]..... Besides, humpers can hear skulks comming in...
Edit: Phasing quicker < saving your entire MS from a lone skulk. Besides, if you were to call for a phase, chances are marines are either in MS but not on the IP, or you're beaconing anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well as most armory-humpers are noobs they do NEVER hear the skulk coming..
And when the skulk got silence or knows how to sneak they won't hear him anyway ;P
At least that's what happens most times on a pub when i run as skulk into ms. 3 noobs humping armory ignoring the sound i do while running so i can kill 1 of them for sure injure another one and with luck sometimes kill all 3. Don't know why but they only start to shoot if your allready at the armory biting them :>
The ips near the pg is still the better choice as most comms who know their stuff drop mines to secure base. So you got the pg with mines and to the left and right of it ip's with mines. A skulk that trys to kill any marine between that will have a hard time. It also makes the chance of telefragging higher lifeforms better when they get careless and stand around there they have to watch for the ip's AND the pg.
There's nothing i hate more as spawning and have to run trough the whole MS to phase when every second counts. It just slows down how fast reinforcments can phase in and that's allways bad.
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
IP IP
PG
A
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
In a perfect world the armory could reach the place where you entered the comm chair, both ip's, the space between the ip's and the pg, and the armory should be in a corner or against a wall, and the ip's should be as far away from the chair as possible. Its quite the trick if you can figure that all out, but those conditions all create favorable options in game.
EDIT: I personally disagree with balisto on a point. I think the ip's and the pg should not be spread apart but instead clustered into a group of three. This is so you can step out of the ip and into the pg. It also will telefrag more fades, your mines go a longer way in protecting things, and if a fade is camping your ip's, you probably need to beacon anyway.
armory: on the edge of the proto circle or another open spot but against a wall to save mines. (do mine it)
obs: wall/corner
armslab: wall/corner
proto: wall.corner
PG inbase in a as much open place as possible.
TF: wall
sieges: close as they can be to walls or TFs
turrets: spreadout for ultimate blockage
think that about covers it
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=78005' target='_blank'>Mine Guide</a>
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good idea! I learned something! ^_^
<!--QuoteBegin-Router Box+May 17 2005, 12:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Router Box @ May 17 2005, 12:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
EDIT: I personally disagree with balisto on a point. I think the ip's and the pg should not be spread apart but instead clustered into a group of three. This is so you can step out of the ip and into the pg. It also will telefrag more fades, your mines go a longer way in protecting things, and if a fade is camping your ip's, you probably need to beacon anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Clustered ips/pg will only telefrag noob fades - the ones who you can shotgun kill anyway. (You can't kill good fades <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) Mines going farther is probably true... I'll have to try that... I'm guessing one in the middle (in between all 3), and the rest in a ring?
Spreading out ips is more to defend against early game skulks... one good fade can camp 2 ips by himself.
Maps that have RTs close to the CC are good electification bases...
IE: ns_eon
Eon can be a tough map for Marines since it is so big...sometimes it's hard to defend base with most of your guys out. I usually drop everything around the RT and when I get the res, I electrify the RT making is impossible to take down anything as a skulk solo or duo.
Make use of your base RT when you can.
Usually you can fit 5 things around the RT.
in the meanwhile tho, <a href='http://mbnet.fi/tomekki/baset/' target='_blank'>http://mbnet.fi/tomekki/baset/</a>
___________________
--------(A)---------
-------X---X--------
-----(IP)----(IP)------
---X-------------X------
where IP are the Ips
A is the Armory
X are the mines
_____ is a wall.
ignore ----
Worked very well to my surprise <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
x's beside the Ips should be lowered a bit. Will post a screenshot perhaps...
in the meanwhile tho, <a href='http://mbnet.fi/tomekki/baset/' target='_blank'>http://mbnet.fi/tomekki/baset/</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
'Those all are you need if you are not so expierienced with comming. After a while you can start to make more unique bases. I for one like to build my base around maximum Pg entranceability.
This is what i mean. Works good at ns_lost
<img src='http://cheese.termi4all.de/lost_ms.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
this is for Comms who do CC-Jumps. If you have a good player in your team ask him to boost you up so you are able to stand at the top of the cc before entering it.
face the Ips/Armory
This will give you a very good chance to kill all enemies who attack Ips/A/PG. Either through the mines or through your LMG.
Try it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Only Problem: YOu need someone who knows the plan to make it work since mines have to be placed properly and you should stand on the CC.
edit: 1 pack of mines...cheap...and very effective in this combo.
oh yeah and i'll do the base layouts... tomorrow..
in the meanwhile tho, <a href='http://mbnet.fi/tomekki/baset/' target='_blank'>http://mbnet.fi/tomekki/baset/</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'Those all are you need if you are not so expierienced with comming. After a while you can start to make more unique bases. I for one like to build my base around maximum Pg entranceability. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
all of those except lost2.jpg were made with maximum pg entranceability in mind.
</li><li>Do not place mines *ON* the IP. See the "mine guide".
</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-SpaceJesus+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SpaceJesus)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BlueNovember, if you're gonna make references to my mine guide, at least link to it other wise people won't know what you're talking about.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=78005' target='_blank'>Mine Guide</a><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Myself in that mine thread+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Myself in that mine thread)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have some issues with this mine placement.
To mine an IP you should place them on or as close to the ip as possible. You can cover it with two or three and leave no spot for the skulk to munch, whereas that ip has four spots a skulk can munch on. I know you're going to say he can't dodge a marine because if he moves he will blow up, but in that case why place the mines any way? A skulk can't hide behind an ip.
That leads neatly to my next point, which is that you need to take into account the sight lines in a room. A single pack of mines and a single spawning marine should be able to instantly kill any single skulk in the room. The commander should be able to cover the ip. Place the ip where you will be aiming right at it when you hop out of the chair. Place the armory in the middle of the room. Place the upgrade structures against walls and within sight of the ip. Place mines against the back side of every building (backside respective to the spawning marine).
As far as mining rts, I like to place two mines on opposite sides of the rt directly on the nozzle model. If you place it far enough from the gas but still within the model you can hide the entire mine in the model and it will explode if a skulk tries to munch it.
Mines can be used to kill fades. It's pretty rare that mines will finish the fade but frequently they'll allow you to nail him in the back as he's fleeing. To do it, think about where on the map you always touch ground when blinking. In ns_eclipse, right inside the doors is great since you have to stop blinking while the doors open (usually I won't place these until after the fade is in the room, so they explode when he leaves). On ns_origin, I place mines on the vertical section of the stairs leading out of marine start. Also on origin I place mines right at the bottom of the small elevator in cargo.
I always shoot for a 3 kill average with a pack of four mines. I do count kill assists since hey thats fair right? Think like an alien and you'll get lots of mine kills.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's tell the whole story here <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
a) die to them
b) die to the mines (since they are spread at the right positions so it basically cant move/dodge without stepping into them)
a) die to them
b) die to the mines (since they are spread at the right positions so it basically cant move/dodge without stepping into them) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
only if theyre stupid
WALLS WALLS WALLS WALLS WALLS. The # one thing you need to think about when building a MS base is how hard your structure are going to be to take down by ninja skulks and how hard your spawners will be to kill. IPs and PGs DO NOT go against walls. I gaurentee you that if you let skulks intentionally knockback marines into walls so they can instantly get the second and third bites they will do so. Every other structure should be snuggled into a corner as far away from the comm chair as possible while still having a direct PoV. Don't waste your marines time beaconing because two skulks are on your AA, just hop out and shoot the losers because you have given yourself lots of open space to work with and no structures to circle strafe around dodging shots. IPs stay far away from eachother to prevent single lifeforms from camping both IPs at the same time, and PG's go inbetween IP's and armories, so that you can drop weapons between your IPs and PGs and have marines run straight into combat equiped.
Combat outposts you have a little more room for creativity with, but MS MUST follow the wall rules. It's the comm's job to defend base, not his marine buddies or a tfac's.
Obs/Al/PL come into the corners of the room.
- Marines are able to get ammo and watching the entrances at the same time
- Armory cant be attacked from behind (no skulk is able to hide behind it)
- Short way to the Armory/Pg
- Far away from the Comm Chair giving the Commander optimal chances to take down the alien that attacks IP/Armory
lets see...how would you attack the armory here?
i only see 3 options:
- left/right side of it -->only one way to retreat and you cant face the cc meaning extra secs for the comm to aim
- above the Armory -->very easy to aim for the commander/ if you jump down into the direction of the comm you ll most liekely explode
- between the both Mines facing the Armory-->your back to the CC, between 2 mines...do i need to say more?
The ips:
i guess you dont want to have the COmmChair in your back. So i ll leave this positions out this time.
(for the left IP)
- left lower side-->side to the cc. Same as above. Way directly to the CC is blocked with a mine
- upper left side-->good overview but: only 2 ways to retreat since left right are blocked by mines. back-->wall. forward-->comm
- middle-->locked in between 4 mines...not good
So..thats why i think this layout is good
if theres 2 skulks in the base theres a good chance theres a third one as well, camping your chair.
anyways, i made revised versions of the bases
<a href='http://mbnet.fi/tomekki/baset/revised/' target='_blank'>http://mbnet.fi/tomekki/baset/revised/</a>
ip = OPEN space, AS FAR AWAY from ANOTHER ip AND the CC
PG= OPEN space. As far away as possible while in middle of base
armory= wall, not a corner.. wall. preferably where you can see most entrances of base