Taking a couple of minutes to post on the forums is something that many of us can do quickly for work on a slow day.
Forum time != game time.
Also, I 100% agree with Neme that whether or not you're in a clan has little to do with whether or not your opinion is respected. If you present yourself well on the forums and post with logical, well thought out ideas, you will garner respect regardless of whether or not you're in a clan. Furthermore, a lot of the super competitive clanners you see often make posts that seem condescending to people who don't play in the league enviroment, detracting from the sense of community and further strengthening the average pubbers view of them as elitist.
The truth of the matter is that as important as competitive play is, it's the pubbers that make up the vast majority of the player base and it behooves all parties to keep that in mind.
Given the huge disparity in skill frequently found on NS pubs, it's really amazing that the game is as playable as it is at all skill levels.
After only being in CAL-NS for a mere 1 season(excluding the current one), I was totally spoiled. Its a huge change to go from clanning NS to pubbing NS. The difference in the level of teamwork, skill, and communication is astounding. As I stand right now, the only reason I ever go onto pubs is to either warmup, to keep in shape, or to see how many Aliens/Marines I can take on at the same time. After clanning, pubbing simply isnt fun anymore.
However, with a little effort and some time spent with people on pubs, you can often come close to that level. It's extremely rewarding when you do. Communication is the key. All too often I see the "good" players simply screaming at the "bad" players about how much they suck. Talking people through simple strats (I mean simple like, "Everyone move together." or "Hug the walls and don't block the doorway.") can often show huge payoffs in pubs and make the game a lot more fun for everyone.
<!--QuoteBegin-BitchSL4P+May 6 2005, 12:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BitchSL4P @ May 6 2005, 12:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Agreed, it can be incredible.
However, with a little effort and some time spent with people on pubs, you can often come close to that level. It's extremely rewarding when you do. Communication is the key. All too often I see the "good" players simply screaming at the "bad" players about how much they suck. Talking people through simple strats (I mean simple like, "Everyone move together." or "Hug the walls and don't block the doorway.") can often show huge payoffs in pubs and make the game a lot more fun for everyone.
-Slappy <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> its still nothing like a pcw
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+May 6 2005, 11:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ May 6 2005, 11:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Router Box+May 6 2005, 11:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Router Box @ May 6 2005, 11:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Anyone who has a couple hundred posts in these forums has little excuse to have never been on a team. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nah I disagree, some people just have no desire to play competitive. How can you argue that?
If you want your opinion to be respected, it is wise to join a clan. Frequently in debates they have the knowledge and experience to back up what they say. It is difficult to respect a pub player's view on balance and where the mod should go because they all come from different servers that have different standards. The competitive standard is consistent, and has the most skilled players in the NS community, who are constantly trying to refine their abilities to be the best. This would mean they would be more likely explore and refine more strategies than the regular pub player, as they aren't competitive and the outcome of the game is irrelevant. that is not to say that pub players will not think of new tactics, but the teamwork and execution would not be the same as a competitive team.
If you don't care where NS is going, don't waste your time competing, if you want people to listen to you, go competitive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So you're saying that anyone who doesn't play competitively has nothing to add to game balance? You wonder why some pub players make the generalization that all competitive players are elitist.
I've played competitively in CS, and UT, and (for a very short time) WC3...
But I've never gotten around to it in NS. I've had two offers recently - one was from the European Clan 'Evil' that has recently formed.
Their first order of business was setting up a clanserver, so I declined to join - my first clanning experience in CS was an invitation to join, jointly paying for a clanserver, then the 'leader' laughing and running off with the server password and some extra cash. They have, however, got a server up and running now, and I've seen some members about - they seem to be doing good - I was too fast to judge, on that count. Another issue was the number of younger players that were in the clan - I have had bad experiences running a <b>large</b> Planetside outfit that had younger players in.
I also recieved an offer from 'HG', a European clan, which I haven't followed up on, as, again, there are too many younger players there.
It's hard for me to find a potential clan that is:<ul><li>Interested in me</li><li>Not 'tards</li><li>Not full of immature 12-14 year olds</li><li>Has a low enough skill level that I have a chance of joining</li></ul>Despite playing NS for a long time, having good reactions, and being fairly smart, I continually make stupid mistakes, normally because I'm too stubborn. I get frustrated that I didn't manage to kill a lvl3/lvl3 marine with shotgun head on head with a skulk. So I do it again, and again.
This does not frequently work.
I also have a wife-to-be, a job with an hour-and-a-half commute a day, a flat to look after. Plus I play Lock On: Modern Air Combat, City of Heroes, and a variety of single player games...
...so, I would be interested in doing some competitive play, but my requirements for a clan I could potentially join are rather tough.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fellblade+May 6 2005, 01:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fellblade @ May 6 2005, 01:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Despite playing NS for a long time, having good reactions, and being fairly smart, I continually make stupid mistakes, normally because I'm too stubborn. I get frustrated that I didn't manage to kill a lvl3/lvl3 marine with shotgun head on head with a skulk. So I do it again, and again.
This does not frequently work. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL! I do the same thing myself sometimes!
Although nothing used to be more satisfying that crunching on Neme's HA as a little skulk and killing him. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+May 6 2005, 07:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ May 6 2005, 07:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To be fair though, the commander who gave me HA was guilty of wasting 15 RP right there... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I've seen you play, you put yourself down a bit with your comments =]
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+May 6 2005, 12:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ May 6 2005, 12:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes. In your opinion. In some other people's opinion, and I'm talking about individuals with extensive knowledge of both sides of the fence, it isn't the non-plus-ultra you see in it. And that's just fine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> agreed
<!--QuoteBegin-BitchSL4P+May 6 2005, 12:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BitchSL4P @ May 6 2005, 12:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Agreed, it can be incredible.
However, with a little effort and some time spent with people on pubs, you can often come close to that level. It's extremely rewarding when you do. Communication is the key. All too often I see the "good" players simply screaming at the "bad" players about how much they suck. Talking people through simple strats (I mean simple like, "Everyone move together." or "Hug the walls and don't block the doorway.") can often show huge payoffs in pubs and make the game a lot more fun for everyone.
-Slappy<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Disagreed. You cannot even come close the level of a good clanner just by pubbing. Not will a little effort anyways. Sure, hours and hours and hours and hours later, you may be close to the level of a good clanner in terms of raw skill, but having raw skill doesnt make you a good clanner.
Take me for instance. I pubbed on Voogru for a good 10 months or so before I got into the clan/pug scene last year. On Voogru, I was one of the best Marine shots and one of the best Fades, hands down, no questions asked. However, in my very first pug, I thought that since I was good in Voogru, Id be good in a pug. How wrong I was. I was one of the Fades for the pug, and I got very easily LMGed down by two Marines on my first encounter in Cargo Hive on ns_veil.
Sure, my raw Fading skill was there, but I didnt know how to accurately attack small numbers of Marines that can aim. All I was good at beforehand was going Fade against huge(12v12 games) numbers of Marines. Anyways, fast forward a few weeks of pugging everyday instead of pubbing everday, and all of a sudden, I had 3 possible clan invites. I chose to go with Moment of Impact, and ended up being their primary Fade. I sucked bad early on as Fade, but by playing over and over again against players that used teamwork and could aim, I just kept getting better at my fade.
In one of my better moments last year that I still have on a screen shot, I went 79-14 by 42 mintues against Battery, who was then the other top clan in CAL-NS Omega, and at that point, undefeated. Screen shot:<a href='http://h4x.cc/files/omgzzle.jpg' target='_blank'>here</a>
The moral of this story? You can get good on pubs, but you cant be great unless you play against people that are better than you, which rarely happens in pubs.
Actually, I was referring to the level of teamwork, not the individual skill of the players, my apologies for being unclear. Certainly it's not the well oiled machine that the top clans are, but it can be just as fun and very rewarding. Not to mention it's almost always less stressful than the "official" competetive environment.
My point was more to say that pubs don't automatically suck and that with a little effort and communication from the skilled players, play on pubs can dramatically improve in a matter of minutes.
So, a great post about your skill development, but not really relevant to the point I was trying to make. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yes I have played some great games on pub where there was great teamwork. This is not the norm It is more like 1 out of 100. Just about every clan scrim/match I have been in we had great teamwork.
<!--QuoteBegin-Precious+May 6 2005, 02:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Precious @ May 6 2005, 02:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes I have played some great games on pub where there was great teamwork. This is not the norm It is more like 1 out of 100. Just about every clan scrim/match I have been in we had great teamwork. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreeage.
<!--QuoteBegin-Abix+May 6 2005, 02:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Abix @ May 6 2005, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BitchSL4P+May 6 2005, 12:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BitchSL4P @ May 6 2005, 12:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Agreed, it can be incredible.
However, with a little effort and some time spent with people on pubs, you can often come close to that level. It's extremely rewarding when you do. Communication is the key. All too often I see the "good" players simply screaming at the "bad" players about how much they suck. Talking people through simple strats (I mean simple like, "Everyone move together." or "Hug the walls and don't block the doorway.") can often show huge payoffs in pubs and make the game a lot more fun for everyone.
-Slappy<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Disagreed. You cannot even come close the level of a good clanner just by pubbing. Not will a little effort anyways. Sure, hours and hours and hours and hours later, you may be close to the level of a good clanner in terms of raw skill, but having raw skill doesnt make you a good clanner.
Take me for instance. I pubbed on Voogru for a good 10 months or so before I got into the clan/pug scene last year. On Voogru, I was one of the best Marine shots and one of the best Fades, hands down, no questions asked. However, in my very first pug, I thought that since I was good in Voogru, Id be good in a pug. How wrong I was. I was one of the Fades for the pug, and I got very easily LMGed down by two Marines on my first encounter in Cargo Hive on ns_veil.
Sure, my raw Fading skill was there, but I didnt know how to accurately attack small numbers of Marines that can aim. All I was good at beforehand was going Fade against huge(12v12 games) numbers of Marines. Anyways, fast forward a few weeks of pugging everyday instead of pubbing everday, and all of a sudden, I had 3 possible clan invites. I chose to go with Moment of Impact, and ended up being their primary Fade. I sucked bad early on as Fade, but by playing over and over again against players that used teamwork and could aim, I just kept getting better at my fade.
In one of my better moments last year that I still have on a screen shot, I went 79-14 by 42 mintues against Battery, who was then the other top clan in CAL-NS Omega, and at that point, undefeated. Screen shot:<a href='http://h4x.cc/files/omgzzle.jpg' target='_blank'>here</a>
The moral of this story? You can get good on pubs, but you cant be great unless you play against people that are better than you, which rarely happens in pubs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i assume 80% of this was because you learned to bhop after you joined a clan?
That's what makes NS/TFC/etc have a skill gap, movement.
Negative. I wasnt able to bhop at all during Season 3. I only finally got around to learning it when I wasnt in a clan for Season 4 and Season 5. The majority of the 'skill' wasnt really 'skill.' It was more like knowing that you cant play a match like you play a pub where you go rushing in all guns blazing 24/7. Or that a live Fade with 0 kills is better than a dead Fade with 2 kills. Or knowing to move out as Marine in groups of at least two. Or any other huge list of things.
Being able to bhop in CAL-NS does not make you a good clanner. Rather, knowing when to bhop and when to ambush can help you to become a good clanner. Any Marine with good aim is gonna shoot you down everysingle time if all you do is bhop at the Marine down hallways all the time. On the other hand, if you wait right past a sharp turn, and bhop around the corner just as the Marine is turning, youre almost guaranteed that kill.
<!--QuoteBegin-Abix+May 6 2005, 03:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Abix @ May 6 2005, 03:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Negative. I wasnt able to bhop at all during Season 3. I only finally got around to learning it when I wasnt in a clan for Season 4 and Season 5. The majority of the 'skill' wasnt really 'skill.' It was more like knowing that you cant play a match like you play a pub where you go rushing in all guns blazing 24/7. Or that a live Fade with 0 kills is better than a dead Fade with 2 kills. Or knowing to move out as Marine in groups of at least two. Or any other huge list of things.
Being able to bhop in CAL-NS does not make you a good clanner. Rather, knowing when to bhop and when to ambush can help you to become a good clanner. Any Marine with good aim is gonna shoot you down everysingle time if all you do is bhop at the Marine down hallways all the time. On the other hand, if you wait right past a sharp turn, and bhop around the corner just as the Marine is turning, youre almost guaranteed that kill.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> bunnyhopping alone brings skulk movement to like average 160%+ speed, [considering you start at 100 and can reach 170+ before resets)
no, bhop does not make you good, but it's pretty much sure as **** required, you bhop to ambush spots anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+May 6 2005, 11:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ May 6 2005, 11:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> With all respect, due or not, FW, that was a load of tosh.
It's a good estimate to say that around one percent of our playerbase is at a competitive level. I'm glad about that percent and will be happy to do whatever is in my power to support it, but I'd be insane to ignore the ninety nine others over it. Sure, their playing environment is a lot more uneven than yours. Sure, it is more difficult a task to reconcile it, at least on average. But that doesn't mean we'll shy away from it. I think the 3.0f iterations have shown that there is no need for the mutually exclusive attitude some seasoned clanners and pubbers adopt in regard of each other: First, we made a number of changes to the early game aliens to make them more accessible to less dedicated players, then, we released balance patches to alleviate asymmetries occuring in the top tiers.
Both side's feedback was considered and acted upon, with what I think is a very solid version as a result. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm talking about respect within the community, not with the devs.
I consider the devs a seperate part of the community, not better or worse, just different.
Would I have made playtester without playing for sYn and HAM at the time I was made PT?
No.
To get respect in this community, especially when the game is so balance related because the sides are so different (unlike CS or DoD for example), it is important to go competitive to learn all the aspects of this complex game. Competitive players are the only ones (with exceptions of course) that push the game to its limits against consistently skilled opponents. That consistently allows for trends in balance to develop which those people who participate in the competitive community develop recognition for those trends.
So far I have recieved a good response from people interested in competive play. Most of the questions I recieved are how do I get started? Here are some things that will help.
Things you need: (All are free unless said.) 1. IRC. This is a must for competitive play. This is wher your team is going to give you server information and PW. Its also a meeting place to make sure you have all six guys.
2. Ventrilio and/or teamspeak. Vent is used the most so I would make sure you have tthat one.
3. MAPS!!! If you want to join a clan that plays in cal you better have all the cal maps. Don't wait and download it from the sever. Most clans take this as a sign that you don't know what u are doing. <a href='http://www.caleague.com/?page=files' target='_blank'>http://www.caleague.com/?page=files</a> This is where cal host the non standard maps used in cal. Too many times have we waited for people to download the map. Its not a good way to introduce yourself to the clan.
4. Know the stock maps well. I recall I time when my clan was trying out a new recruit on ns_tanith. We told him to drop a RT at fusion hive. He said, "Where is that?" If you don't know where the hives are in the most common maps you shouldn't be playing competitively yet.
5. A mic. Although a mic is not needed in pub play it is needed in competitve play. I have only seen a few people do it but it also makes it harder on the rest of the team. mics are cheap. Buy one.
^^these are good tips...we had a guy tryout (on tanith) before and we told him he was on dc's. about a minute later i notice we had a res node in double...we all go "WTH...we told you dcs" and his response was "i know...i was going to get them later on"
p.s. just for spite titanium dropped the other double node and we still won somehow
I havent been around these forums for at least a year...
Watching the Omega matches on HLTV/NSRadio makes me think there might be a place for me in competative play, if I start playing more NS
However, the main thing that is pushing people toward competative play is that pub servers, at least US ones, are either CO or they are filled with bots (ie 'trainer' servers)
Who knows, maybe this push toward competative play is a good thing, but from what I've seen, its just making it so people that are just noticing NS and wanting to play multiplayer are forced to play CO or against bots that really teach nothing.
Yesterday I spent 20 minutes trying to play an NS_ game and didnt find 1 in my ping range of under 150. One server had 3 minutes of silly soundbites that do nothing to enhance gameplay. Once I got on, I realized the aliens were all bots.
I have never hid my feelings about CO destroying the classic NS pub community, and in the 2 weeks since the last time I played NS, this seems to have become a reality.
I guess if I want to keep playing the NS I've loved since 1.00, I'll have to go competative...
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin-Precious+May 12 2005, 06:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Precious @ May 12 2005, 06:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><a href='http://www.caleague.com/?page=files' target='_blank'>http://www.caleague.com/?page=files</a> This is where cal host the non standard maps used in cal.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Forum time != game time.
Also, I 100% agree with Neme that whether or not you're in a clan has little to do with whether or not your opinion is respected. If you present yourself well on the forums and post with logical, well thought out ideas, you will garner respect regardless of whether or not you're in a clan. Furthermore, a lot of the super competitive clanners you see often make posts that seem condescending to people who don't play in the league enviroment, detracting from the sense of community and further strengthening the average pubbers view of them as elitist.
The truth of the matter is that as important as competitive play is, it's the pubbers that make up the vast majority of the player base and it behooves all parties to keep that in mind.
Given the huge disparity in skill frequently found on NS pubs, it's really amazing that the game is as playable as it is at all skill levels.
Competitive NS FTW.
However, with a little effort and some time spent with people on pubs, you can often come close to that level. It's extremely rewarding when you do. Communication is the key. All too often I see the "good" players simply screaming at the "bad" players about how much they suck. Talking people through simple strats (I mean simple like, "Everyone move together." or "Hug the walls and don't block the doorway.") can often show huge payoffs in pubs and make the game a lot more fun for everyone.
-Slappy
However, with a little effort and some time spent with people on pubs, you can often come close to that level. It's extremely rewarding when you do. Communication is the key. All too often I see the "good" players simply screaming at the "bad" players about how much they suck. Talking people through simple strats (I mean simple like, "Everyone move together." or "Hug the walls and don't block the doorway.") can often show huge payoffs in pubs and make the game a lot more fun for everyone.
-Slappy <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
its still nothing like a pcw
except that you shoot aliens
Nah I disagree, some people just have no desire to play competitive. How can you argue that?
If you want your opinion to be respected, it is wise to join a clan. Frequently in debates they have the knowledge and experience to back up what they say. It is difficult to respect a pub player's view on balance and where the mod should go because they all come from different servers that have different standards. The competitive standard is consistent, and has the most skilled players in the NS community, who are constantly trying to refine their abilities to be the best. This would mean they would be more likely explore and refine more strategies than the regular pub player, as they aren't competitive and the outcome of the game is irrelevant. that is not to say that pub players will not think of new tactics, but the teamwork and execution would not be the same as a competitive team.
If you don't care where NS is going, don't waste your time competing, if you want people to listen to you, go competitive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you're saying that anyone who doesn't play competitively has nothing to add to game balance? You wonder why some pub players make the generalization that all competitive players are elitist.
But I've never gotten around to it in NS. I've had two offers recently - one was from the European Clan 'Evil' that has recently formed.
Their first order of business was setting up a clanserver, so I declined to join - my first clanning experience in CS was an invitation to join, jointly paying for a clanserver, then the 'leader' laughing and running off with the server password and some extra cash. They have, however, got a server up and running now, and I've seen some members about - they seem to be doing good - I was too fast to judge, on that count. Another issue was the number of younger players that were in the clan - I have had bad experiences running a <b>large</b> Planetside outfit that had younger players in.
I also recieved an offer from 'HG', a European clan, which I haven't followed up on, as, again, there are too many younger players there.
It's hard for me to find a potential clan that is:<ul><li>Interested in me</li><li>Not 'tards</li><li>Not full of immature 12-14 year olds</li><li>Has a low enough skill level that I have a chance of joining</li></ul>Despite playing NS for a long time, having good reactions, and being fairly smart, I continually make stupid mistakes, normally because I'm too stubborn. I get frustrated that I didn't manage to kill a lvl3/lvl3 marine with shotgun head on head with a skulk. So I do it again, and again.
This does not frequently work.
I also have a wife-to-be, a job with an hour-and-a-half commute a day, a flat to look after. Plus I play Lock On: Modern Air Combat, City of Heroes, and a variety of single player games...
...so, I would be interested in doing some competitive play, but my requirements for a clan I could potentially join are rather tough.
This does not frequently work. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL! I do the same thing myself sometimes!
Although nothing used to be more satisfying that crunching on Neme's HA as a little skulk and killing him. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The HA! It caaaaaalls to me! <crunch>
-Slappy
I've seen you play, you put yourself down a bit with your comments =]
agreed
However, with a little effort and some time spent with people on pubs, you can often come close to that level. It's extremely rewarding when you do. Communication is the key. All too often I see the "good" players simply screaming at the "bad" players about how much they suck. Talking people through simple strats (I mean simple like, "Everyone move together." or "Hug the walls and don't block the doorway.") can often show huge payoffs in pubs and make the game a lot more fun for everyone.
-Slappy<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Disagreed. You cannot even come close the level of a good clanner just by pubbing. Not will a little effort anyways. Sure, hours and hours and hours and hours later, you may be close to the level of a good clanner in terms of raw skill, but having raw skill doesnt make you a good clanner.
Take me for instance. I pubbed on Voogru for a good 10 months or so before I got into the clan/pug scene last year. On Voogru, I was one of the best Marine shots and one of the best Fades, hands down, no questions asked. However, in my very first pug, I thought that since I was good in Voogru, Id be good in a pug. How wrong I was. I was one of the Fades for the pug, and I got very easily LMGed down by two Marines on my first encounter in Cargo Hive on ns_veil.
Sure, my raw Fading skill was there, but I didnt know how to accurately attack small numbers of Marines that can aim. All I was good at beforehand was going Fade against huge(12v12 games) numbers of Marines. Anyways, fast forward a few weeks of pugging everyday instead of pubbing everday, and all of a sudden, I had 3 possible clan invites. I chose to go with Moment of Impact, and ended up being their primary Fade. I sucked bad early on as Fade, but by playing over and over again against players that used teamwork and could aim, I just kept getting better at my fade.
In one of my better moments last year that I still have on a screen shot, I went 79-14 by 42 mintues against Battery, who was then the other top clan in CAL-NS Omega, and at that point, undefeated. Screen shot:<a href='http://h4x.cc/files/omgzzle.jpg' target='_blank'>here</a>
The moral of this story? You can get good on pubs, but you cant be great unless you play against people that are better than you, which rarely happens in pubs.
My point was more to say that pubs don't automatically suck and that with a little effort and communication from the skilled players, play on pubs can dramatically improve in a matter of minutes.
So, a great post about your skill development, but not really relevant to the point I was trying to make. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-Slappy
-Slappy
Agreeage.
However, with a little effort and some time spent with people on pubs, you can often come close to that level. It's extremely rewarding when you do. Communication is the key. All too often I see the "good" players simply screaming at the "bad" players about how much they suck. Talking people through simple strats (I mean simple like, "Everyone move together." or "Hug the walls and don't block the doorway.") can often show huge payoffs in pubs and make the game a lot more fun for everyone.
-Slappy<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Disagreed. You cannot even come close the level of a good clanner just by pubbing. Not will a little effort anyways. Sure, hours and hours and hours and hours later, you may be close to the level of a good clanner in terms of raw skill, but having raw skill doesnt make you a good clanner.
Take me for instance. I pubbed on Voogru for a good 10 months or so before I got into the clan/pug scene last year. On Voogru, I was one of the best Marine shots and one of the best Fades, hands down, no questions asked. However, in my very first pug, I thought that since I was good in Voogru, Id be good in a pug. How wrong I was. I was one of the Fades for the pug, and I got very easily LMGed down by two Marines on my first encounter in Cargo Hive on ns_veil.
Sure, my raw Fading skill was there, but I didnt know how to accurately attack small numbers of Marines that can aim. All I was good at beforehand was going Fade against huge(12v12 games) numbers of Marines. Anyways, fast forward a few weeks of pugging everyday instead of pubbing everday, and all of a sudden, I had 3 possible clan invites. I chose to go with Moment of Impact, and ended up being their primary Fade. I sucked bad early on as Fade, but by playing over and over again against players that used teamwork and could aim, I just kept getting better at my fade.
In one of my better moments last year that I still have on a screen shot, I went 79-14 by 42 mintues against Battery, who was then the other top clan in CAL-NS Omega, and at that point, undefeated. Screen shot:<a href='http://h4x.cc/files/omgzzle.jpg' target='_blank'>here</a>
The moral of this story? You can get good on pubs, but you cant be great unless you play against people that are better than you, which rarely happens in pubs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i assume 80% of this was because you learned to bhop after you joined a clan?
That's what makes NS/TFC/etc have a skill gap, movement.
Being able to bhop in CAL-NS does not make you a good clanner. Rather, knowing when to bhop and when to ambush can help you to become a good clanner. Any Marine with good aim is gonna shoot you down everysingle time if all you do is bhop at the Marine down hallways all the time. On the other hand, if you wait right past a sharp turn, and bhop around the corner just as the Marine is turning, youre almost guaranteed that kill.
Being able to bhop in CAL-NS does not make you a good clanner. Rather, knowing when to bhop and when to ambush can help you to become a good clanner. Any Marine with good aim is gonna shoot you down everysingle time if all you do is bhop at the Marine down hallways all the time. On the other hand, if you wait right past a sharp turn, and bhop around the corner just as the Marine is turning, youre almost guaranteed that kill.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bunnyhopping alone brings skulk movement to like average 160%+ speed, [considering you start at 100 and can reach 170+ before resets)
no, bhop does not make you good, but it's pretty much sure as **** required, you bhop to ambush spots anyway.
It's a good estimate to say that around one percent of our playerbase is at a competitive level. I'm glad about that percent and will be happy to do whatever is in my power to support it, but I'd be insane to ignore the ninety nine others over it. Sure, their playing environment is a lot more uneven than yours. Sure, it is more difficult a task to reconcile it, at least on average. But that doesn't mean we'll shy away from it.
I think the 3.0f iterations have shown that there is no need for the mutually exclusive attitude some seasoned clanners and pubbers adopt in regard of each other: First, we made a number of changes to the early game aliens to make them more accessible to less dedicated players, then, we released balance patches to alleviate asymmetries occuring in the top tiers.
Both side's feedback was considered and acted upon, with what I think is a very solid version as a result. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm talking about respect within the community, not with the devs.
I consider the devs a seperate part of the community, not better or worse, just different.
Would I have made playtester without playing for sYn and HAM at the time I was made PT?
No.
To get respect in this community, especially when the game is so balance related because the sides are so different (unlike CS or DoD for example), it is important to go competitive to learn all the aspects of this complex game. Competitive players are the only ones (with exceptions of course) that push the game to its limits against consistently skilled opponents. That consistently allows for trends in balance to develop which those people who participate in the competitive community develop recognition for those trends.
Please folks, lets not turn this into a sidetrack on respect, because it'll just get nasty.
Things you need: (All are free unless said.)
1. IRC. This is a must for competitive play. This is wher your team is going to give you server information and PW. Its also a meeting place to make sure you have all six guys.
2. Ventrilio and/or teamspeak. Vent is used the most so I would make sure you have tthat one.
3. MAPS!!! If you want to join a clan that plays in cal you better have all the cal maps. Don't wait and download it from the sever. Most clans take this as a sign that you don't know what u are doing. <a href='http://www.caleague.com/?page=files' target='_blank'>http://www.caleague.com/?page=files</a> This is where cal host the non standard maps used in cal. Too many times have we waited for people to download the map. Its not a good way to introduce yourself to the clan.
4. Know the stock maps well. I recall I time when my clan was trying out a new recruit on ns_tanith. We told him to drop a RT at fusion hive. He said, "Where is that?" If you don't know where the hives are in the most common maps you shouldn't be playing competitively yet.
5. A mic. Although a mic is not needed in pub play it is needed in competitve play. I have only seen a few people do it but it also makes it harder on the rest of the team. mics are cheap. Buy one.
p.s. just for spite titanium dropped the other double node and we still won somehow
Watching the Omega matches on HLTV/NSRadio makes me think there might be a place for me in competative play, if I start playing more NS
However, the main thing that is pushing people toward competative play is that pub servers, at least US ones, are either CO or they are filled with bots (ie 'trainer' servers)
Who knows, maybe this push toward competative play is a good thing, but from what I've seen, its just making it so people that are just noticing NS and wanting to play multiplayer are forced to play CO or against bots that really teach nothing.
Yesterday I spent 20 minutes trying to play an NS_ game and didnt find 1 in my ping range of under 150. One server had 3 minutes of silly soundbites that do nothing to enhance gameplay. Once I got on, I realized the aliens were all bots.
I have never hid my feelings about CO destroying the classic NS pub community, and in the 2 weeks since the last time I played NS, this seems to have become a reality.
I guess if I want to keep playing the NS I've loved since 1.00, I'll have to go competative...
Fixed link: <a href='http://www.caleague.com/?division=nso&page=files' target='_blank'>http://www.caleague.com/?division=nso&page=files</a>