aonomusDedicated NS Mastermind (no need for school)Join Date: 2003-11-26Member: 23605Members, Constellation
Well if this does become official, it would help, but not being able to play real NS without the training mission completed would be a bit harsh... not to mention annoying for reinstalls...
mapping was rather boring. not much variety, straight long paths etc. ready room was great
the map fufilled its objective very well, perhaps more things should be covered, but it's still beta. hope ya continue working on it meat.
briefing was rather dragged. some sync probs
reduce the weldables by 1. too much welding makes it boring.
the onos part with the exploding floors were great. gave me a jump <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
the part with the you going past the weapon pictures, rather wierd, should display the weapon models instead. but afaik i think it was a problem that only the devs could fix. however, on the pics where they show the weapon names, the ... at the end of each weapon name sort of spoils the atmosphere
shooting range was great stuff. the targets popped in and out rather quickly. maybe make them move around quickly rather than just pop in, pop out. maybe a sound to indicate that the player has hit the target?
edit: yea i forgot. the waypoints and comming section. that was great, and effective at teaching newbies basic comming skills. more could be covered. the part asking the player to place certain structures at certain points was pretty impressive although the obs pointing to phase tech pointing to the phase gate icon might confuse newbs on what to do
the chuckle in the vent also did make me jump a bit. if you could make a skulk suddenly dart pass the vent hole where you can first see the hive that would really add to the atmosphere
overall it really is a great map. imo the reason why the devs didn't accept it was probably because of the first point, mapping wasn't interesting enough. great work though meat, and keep working. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just played through it. This has A LOT of potential, but after having seen it for myself I must admit that I can see why it wasn't accepted in it's current state. I thoroughly enjoyed playing through it, though there are some areas where I can suggest possible changes:
For example, the initial hologram room showing off the various aliens is a great idea, however the low-polygon octagonal shape of the room is extremely obvious, and (most likely due to engine limitations) the holograms all only play their idle animations. While I did not experience any sync issues, I did feel that perhaps watching the alien play the animation related to what the voiceover was talking about would have made the presentation more interesting. For example having the skulk performing a leap animation on que, the lerk flapping it's wings at the mention of flight, the hologram briefly showing a spore cloud when it is mentioned, and the gorge being shown placing and building a resource chamber would all be great (though expensive in terms of entities) additions to this sequence. Altering the room layout to either a less uniform or symmetrical shape would also do wonders in my opinion.
I would suggest giving the player some non-verbal explanation as to how they suddenly received a HMG and HA. Perhaps redesigning the armoury to appear more like a weapons storage room, mounting suits of HA on a wall, and various weapons on weapon racks would make more sense to a new player. Picking up the HA could even then trigger a brief electronic voiceover (that appears to be built into the suit) that explains what it is. To hear the weapon explanations, the player would need to go over to a weapon rack full of that particular weapon, and then push a button on the rack. Making the entire area quite bright and including a more traditional target range (to give new players something they are familiar with) could also make the player feel more "safe" in the armoury, before being thrust out in the horrors of a dark, broken down spaceship that has just been infested with an alien menace.
While it's pretty obvious to all experienced FPS players that you should follow the brightly lit paths after exiting the armoury, but there is no in-character incentive given to the player to head out into the ship. Perhaps during the radio-firefight that occurs over the level change, some sort of last ditch instruction could be yelled out before the comms are cut off, to give the player some hint as to why and where they should continue onto after the armoury section.
Onos + explosions = Awesome.
Medkit/Ammo-pack/Cat-pack explaination room: Good idea and well executed, however the jumping required to get out of the room made me feel like I was playing HL1 again, even it was a fairly simple jumping puzzle, it was still a jumping puzzle none-the-less and we are seeing increasingly fewer and fewer of those in today's games. Whether this is a good or bad thing I can't truly say, however it did feel outdated. I also spotted an old clunky HL radio sitting there, which definately looked out of place in a high tech space-ship.
The commander section was great. The waypointing, and designated build areas are all great to look at. The room however feels quite small and cramped, and seems more like a last ditch base that a commander may build in a vent after he realises the battle is definately lost than a true marine start. I realise however that making the room bigger, and thus more similar to what first time players will experience in their first real NS game, comes with the problem that it also gives players an even greater ability to build in the wrong places and to deviate from the set tutorial path. This is a problem I feel would need to be solved by the dev team, by coding in a special entity that when active will disallow the commander from building anywhere but directly above it, and it can also specify what buildings can be placed on top of it. The voiceover instructions often gave players a que of instructions, and asking a new player to remember everything you say while straining to hear your voice over the top of the build noises may be a bit much. Apart from that the section was really cool, and it totally blew me away in terms of what you could do as a mapper. I'm really impressed.
The hive room certainly could have done with a weirder and more complicated shape. I would also have prefered it to be greener instead of darker. The map overall was extremely dark, featuring both dark textures and extremely low light levels, which I feel detracts more from the visuals more than it adds to it. Overall swapping out your black and dark blue textures for much lighter blue or metallic textures, and upping the light levels a tonne may worth thinking about. I'd especially recommend brightening up zones where the player is meant to feel "safe", such as the statis room, armoury and commander training section. To transform initially "safe" pre-disaster corridors into "scary" post-disaster corridors, you could remove the bright lights and put in red emergency lighting during the level change. The contrast may also help players to grasp what is exactly is going on.
Overall I really like what I see, and even if my post focused more on constructive criticism than praise, I hope you do take my comments in the best possible light. You have done an awesome job, and I strongly encourage you to begin work on a version 2, taking into consideration everyone's feedback.
<!--QuoteBegin-gazOzz+Mar 19 2005, 12:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (gazOzz @ Mar 19 2005, 12:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The holoroom had serious syncronization problems for me... The voiceover finished far before the alien holograms... Like a minute or so... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Had this problems, too. But if you go straight without stopping it perfectly fits. Thats what I mean with fool protection <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On the second map, jointeamtwo. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-enf0rcer+Mar 19 2005, 07:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (enf0rcer @ Mar 19 2005, 07:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Mar 19 2005, 04:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Mar 19 2005, 04:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Addendum: the dialogue, whilst not perfect, suprised me in particular. Most dialogue in games is awful, so I was very impressed that listening to it didn't make me want to wince. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> minus the weapon descriptions.. come on didn't anyone else get even mildly put off by this? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I actually liked the sort of style, the only problem is the bug where the wav repeated/started half way through.
I really like what you've done. It's a reasonably thorough tutorial, but I doubt it will become official unless you add an alien tutorial to complement it.
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
I liked it alot-however i can now see why it wasnt accepted as official. Little things like the armory area could have used a bit more work, with the layout and voices (the guy announcing the weapons was very weird) . Also things like how the prototype lab was tucked away in a corner.
Was still really good however. Im impressed. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On the second map when I enter the 'armoury' my character is stuck.
This happens right after I walk into the glowing white bars and gain the HMG/HA. My empty lmg falls to the ground and then the game beeps and 'starts' the game. (The whichbot is added here). After the beeping I expect to move, but I am stuck.
Otherwise, the holoroom and the waking up bit is well done. As is the explosions and failing corridor on the way to the armoury.
aonomusDedicated NS Mastermind (no need for school)Join Date: 2003-11-26Member: 23605Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-mirrodin+Mar 20 2005, 07:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mirrodin @ Mar 20 2005, 07:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> On the second map when I enter the 'armoury' my character is stuck.
This happens right after I walk into the glowing white bars and gain the HMG/HA. My empty lmg falls to the ground and then the game beeps and 'starts' the game. (The whichbot is added here). After the beeping I expect to move, but I am stuck.
Otherwise, the holoroom and the waking up bit is well done. As is the explosions and failing corridor on the way to the armoury.
HELP ME!!!!!oneoneoneoneoneoneeleven!1 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You immidiately join team one when the map loads, then the round starts when the whichbots are added. The only reason for a stuck issue would be you inside another clipnode or brush...
<!--QuoteBegin-Shadowcat+Mar 20 2005, 08:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shadowcat @ Mar 20 2005, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> On the second map, jointeamtwo. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://i154.exs.cx/img154/7236/lol1cz.jpg' target='_blank'>http://i154.exs.cx/img154/7236/lol1cz.jpg</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well arent you supposed not to use the quickjoin keys <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ohnoes!!!! It was a great training map, i hope the devs somewhow give you specifics on why it wasnt up to scratch.They said <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Generally, we are not going to include a training map in 3.0 because the effort of proper integration is too high for this late stage of development. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe , just maybe there is a small posibility of including it later, especially since the great response of the community....
If not they will make baby <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> cry <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As a mapper myself, I'm very impressed with the workarounds you've used to make this into a singleplayer map. Bravo, sir.
Although this is only my personal opinion, I think if a training map is made it will be for a non-beta release of NS, and will probably be on an engine that doesn't <i>require</i> workarounds to make things like this work.
I'd just like to put my head in here and note that as the one who wrote the dreaded rejection mail, I really enjoyed meat's work as a singleplayer experience, but the fact of the matter is that there can not be a sensibly integrated tutorial map without a surprising amount of backend work. This was out of the question for 3.0 final, and looks to be so for 3.1, as well (more details on that shortly): In easy terms, you can't really tell green players to activate sv_cheats and enter commands into the console. Beyond that, we have a few plans of our own (Part of which prompted that remark about the visuals. Meat received the full list by now, and while I won't divulge details without his agreement, he understood the reasons.). This is really us, not him, so to speak <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Mar 22 2005, 07:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Mar 22 2005, 07:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd just like to put my head in here and note that as the one who wrote the dreaded rejection mail, I really enjoyed meat's work as a singleplayer experience, but the fact of the matter is that there can not be a sensibly integrated tutorial map without a surprising amount of backend work. This was out of the question for 3.0 final, and looks to be so for 3.1, as well (more details on that shortly): In easy terms, you can't really tell green players to activate sv_cheats and enter commands into the console. Beyond that, we have a few plans of our own (Part of which prompted that remark about the visuals. Meat received the full list by now, and while I won't divulge details without his agreement, he understood the reasons.). This is really us, not him, so to speak <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, when i saw that thing about the visuals "not being up to par with NS standards" i was like "Guess they havent fired up tanith for a while" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Tommyd <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> me
I gotta say, that got my adrenaline going when I heard the onos over the speaker, That was bad ****. I really liked how it said another alien has been reported etc etc (about the onos) that was nice. I hope to see another one of these in the future. I also hope it gets more people into the game.
It's the most unchanged of the original 1.0 maps, and I've got so many memorable moments from that map it's not even funny anymore... Man I miss some of the really stupid stuff my mates and I used to get up to on the original maps...
To be honest, it does need a fair bit of visual work, it's not horrible, but it definately could be better. But as for what it teaches, i can't fault it, as a functional training map it really does do it's job well.
Shame it's ruled out for official inclusion for the forseeable future really.
Comments
shame on devs not adding it..
mapping was rather boring. not much variety, straight long paths etc. ready room was great
the map fufilled its objective very well, perhaps more things should be covered, but it's still beta. hope ya continue working on it meat.
briefing was rather dragged. some sync probs
reduce the weldables by 1. too much welding makes it boring.
the onos part with the exploding floors were great. gave me a jump <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
the part with the you going past the weapon pictures, rather wierd, should display the weapon models instead. but afaik i think it was a problem that only the devs could fix. however, on the pics where they show the weapon names, the ... at the end of each weapon name sort of spoils the atmosphere
shooting range was great stuff. the targets popped in and out rather quickly. maybe make them move around quickly rather than just pop in, pop out. maybe a sound to indicate that the player has hit the target?
edit: yea i forgot. the waypoints and comming section. that was great, and effective at teaching newbies basic comming skills. more could be covered. the part asking the player to place certain structures at certain points was pretty impressive although the obs pointing to phase tech pointing to the phase gate icon might confuse newbs on what to do
the chuckle in the vent also did make me jump a bit. if you could make a skulk suddenly dart pass the vent hole where you can first see the hive that would really add to the atmosphere
overall it really is a great map. imo the reason why the devs didn't accept it was probably because of the first point, mapping wasn't interesting enough. great work though meat, and keep working. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
For example, the initial hologram room showing off the various aliens is a great idea, however the low-polygon octagonal shape of the room is extremely obvious, and (most likely due to engine limitations) the holograms all only play their idle animations. While I did not experience any sync issues, I did feel that perhaps watching the alien play the animation related to what the voiceover was talking about would have made the presentation more interesting. For example having the skulk performing a leap animation on que, the lerk flapping it's wings at the mention of flight, the hologram briefly showing a spore cloud when it is mentioned, and the gorge being shown placing and building a resource chamber would all be great (though expensive in terms of entities) additions to this sequence. Altering the room layout to either a less uniform or symmetrical shape would also do wonders in my opinion.
I would suggest giving the player some non-verbal explanation as to how they suddenly received a HMG and HA. Perhaps redesigning the armoury to appear more like a weapons storage room, mounting suits of HA on a wall, and various weapons on weapon racks would make more sense to a new player. Picking up the HA could even then trigger a brief electronic voiceover (that appears to be built into the suit) that explains what it is. To hear the weapon explanations, the player would need to go over to a weapon rack full of that particular weapon, and then push a button on the rack. Making the entire area quite bright and including a more traditional target range (to give new players something they are familiar with) could also make the player feel more "safe" in the armoury, before being thrust out in the horrors of a dark, broken down spaceship that has just been infested with an alien menace.
While it's pretty obvious to all experienced FPS players that you should follow the brightly lit paths after exiting the armoury, but there is no in-character incentive given to the player to head out into the ship. Perhaps during the radio-firefight that occurs over the level change, some sort of last ditch instruction could be yelled out before the comms are cut off, to give the player some hint as to why and where they should continue onto after the armoury section.
Onos + explosions = Awesome.
Medkit/Ammo-pack/Cat-pack explaination room: Good idea and well executed, however the jumping required to get out of the room made me feel like I was playing HL1 again, even it was a fairly simple jumping puzzle, it was still a jumping puzzle none-the-less and we are seeing increasingly fewer and fewer of those in today's games. Whether this is a good or bad thing I can't truly say, however it did feel outdated. I also spotted an old clunky HL radio sitting there, which definately looked out of place in a high tech space-ship.
The commander section was great. The waypointing, and designated build areas are all great to look at. The room however feels quite small and cramped, and seems more like a last ditch base that a commander may build in a vent after he realises the battle is definately lost than a true marine start. I realise however that making the room bigger, and thus more similar to what first time players will experience in their first real NS game, comes with the problem that it also gives players an even greater ability to build in the wrong places and to deviate from the set tutorial path. This is a problem I feel would need to be solved by the dev team, by coding in a special entity that when active will disallow the commander from building anywhere but directly above it, and it can also specify what buildings can be placed on top of it. The voiceover instructions often gave players a que of instructions, and asking a new player to remember everything you say while straining to hear your voice over the top of the build noises may be a bit much. Apart from that the section was really cool, and it totally blew me away in terms of what you could do as a mapper. I'm really impressed.
The hive room certainly could have done with a weirder and more complicated shape. I would also have prefered it to be greener instead of darker. The map overall was extremely dark, featuring both dark textures and extremely low light levels, which I feel detracts more from the visuals more than it adds to it. Overall swapping out your black and dark blue textures for much lighter blue or metallic textures, and upping the light levels a tonne may worth thinking about. I'd especially recommend brightening up zones where the player is meant to feel "safe", such as the statis room, armoury and commander training section. To transform initially "safe" pre-disaster corridors into "scary" post-disaster corridors, you could remove the bright lights and put in red emergency lighting during the level change. The contrast may also help players to grasp what is exactly is going on.
Overall I really like what I see, and even if my post focused more on constructive criticism than praise, I hope you do take my comments in the best possible light. You have done an awesome job, and I strongly encourage you to begin work on a version 2, taking into consideration everyone's feedback.
EDIT: Fixed some spelling mistakes
Had this problems, too. But if you go straight without stopping it perfectly fits. Thats what I mean with fool protection <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://i154.exs.cx/img154/7236/lol1cz.jpg' target='_blank'>http://i154.exs.cx/img154/7236/lol1cz.jpg</a>
minus the weapon descriptions.. come on didn't anyone else get even mildly put off by this? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually liked the sort of style, the only problem is the bug where the wav repeated/started half way through.
i.e.
"certain mission crit- tain mission criticals"
Got kind of annoying. :/
Was still really good however. Im impressed. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This happens right after I walk into the glowing white bars and gain the HMG/HA. My empty lmg falls to the ground and then the game beeps and 'starts' the game. (The whichbot is added here). After the beeping I expect to move, but I am stuck.
Otherwise, the holoroom and the waking up bit is well done. As is the explosions and failing corridor on the way to the armoury.
HELP ME!!!!!oneoneoneoneoneoneeleven!1
This happens right after I walk into the glowing white bars and gain the HMG/HA. My empty lmg falls to the ground and then the game beeps and 'starts' the game. (The whichbot is added here). After the beeping I expect to move, but I am stuck.
Otherwise, the holoroom and the waking up bit is well done. As is the explosions and failing corridor on the way to the armoury.
HELP ME!!!!!oneoneoneoneoneoneeleven!1 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You immidiately join team one when the map loads, then the round starts when the whichbots are added. The only reason for a stuck issue would be you inside another clipnode or brush...
The three hive award of goodness:
{[== <!--emo&::hive::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/hive5.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='hive5.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::hive::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/hive5.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='hive5.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::hive::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/hive5.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='hive5.gif' /><!--endemo--> ==]}
<a href='http://i154.exs.cx/img154/7236/lol1cz.jpg' target='_blank'>http://i154.exs.cx/img154/7236/lol1cz.jpg</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well arent you supposed not to use the quickjoin keys <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(Awesome. Oustandingly awesome.)
I hope you'll go further even if it won't go official.
I am sure you understood the reasons and that it doesn't in any case put the quality of your work under question.
Many thanks for your efforts and those who helped.
It was a great training map, i hope the devs somewhow give you specifics on why it wasnt up to scratch.They said
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Generally, we are not going to include a training map
in 3.0 because the effort of proper integration is too
high for this late stage of development. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe , just maybe there is a small posibility of including it later, especially since the great response of the community....
If not they will make baby <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> cry <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I blew past my expectations and I must say that that this is exactly what NS needs.
Hope you will add even more stuff even if it doesnt go official.
Although this is only my personal opinion, I think if a training map is made it will be for a non-beta release of NS, and will probably be on an engine that doesn't <i>require</i> workarounds to make things like this work.
Beyond that, we have a few plans of our own (Part of which prompted that remark about the visuals. Meat received the full list by now, and while I won't divulge details without his agreement, he understood the reasons.). This is really us, not him, so to speak <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Beyond that, we have a few plans of our own (Part of which prompted that remark about the visuals. Meat received the full list by now, and while I won't divulge details without his agreement, he understood the reasons.). This is really us, not him, so to speak <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, when i saw that thing about the visuals "not being up to par with NS standards" i was like "Guess they havent fired up tanith for a while" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Tommyd <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> me
It's the most unchanged of the original 1.0 maps, and I've got so many memorable moments from that map it's not even funny anymore... Man I miss some of the really stupid stuff my mates and I used to get up to on the original maps...
To be honest, it does need a fair bit of visual work, it's not horrible, but it definately could be better. But as for what it teaches, i can't fault it, as a functional training map it really does do it's job well.
Shame it's ruled out for official inclusion for the forseeable future really.
Great work meat.