Training Map Release Thread
Meat_Popsicle
Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19254Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19254Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">maybeee?</div> I just got a message from Nemesis Zero with a quote (possibly from Tyr i dunno), anyway the message says it all really
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hello Matt,
I'm sorry to read that you did not receive a response
to your previous submissions - it not having been my
responsibility until recently, all I can offer in
terms of consolation is that we apparently already
raised measures against the issue.
Cutting it short, I've got to decline your submission,
for two reasons, one generic, the other specific:
Generally, we are not going to include a training map
in 3.0 because the effort of proper integration is too
high for this late stage of development. The effort you
put up in circumventing these technical limitations is
admirable, but as you'll agree, it is still sketchy.
The ball is in our field; we are aware of this, and have
medium-range plans for the resolution of the problem,
but until then, there won't be an official NS training
map.
Specifically, I'm sorry to say that your map is not up
to the visual standards we are imposing on our official
lineup. If you wish, I'll get you a more detailed list
of this point of criticism.
I am certain you will be upset by this message. This is
a good sign: You created something, put *care* into it,
and now, we are dismissing this effort. Please believe
me when I say we aren't. We can not accept your work in
this form, but this does not mean we do not appreciate
it. I am certain your map will remain a success as a
private release, and am hopeful that this will not
keep you from continuing your career as level designer.
Take care,
-- Florian Schwarzer
www.NaturalSelection.org
Project Manager
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>DOWNLOAD AND THREAD HERE:</span></span>
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=90474' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....=ST&f=1&t=90474</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hello Matt,
I'm sorry to read that you did not receive a response
to your previous submissions - it not having been my
responsibility until recently, all I can offer in
terms of consolation is that we apparently already
raised measures against the issue.
Cutting it short, I've got to decline your submission,
for two reasons, one generic, the other specific:
Generally, we are not going to include a training map
in 3.0 because the effort of proper integration is too
high for this late stage of development. The effort you
put up in circumventing these technical limitations is
admirable, but as you'll agree, it is still sketchy.
The ball is in our field; we are aware of this, and have
medium-range plans for the resolution of the problem,
but until then, there won't be an official NS training
map.
Specifically, I'm sorry to say that your map is not up
to the visual standards we are imposing on our official
lineup. If you wish, I'll get you a more detailed list
of this point of criticism.
I am certain you will be upset by this message. This is
a good sign: You created something, put *care* into it,
and now, we are dismissing this effort. Please believe
me when I say we aren't. We can not accept your work in
this form, but this does not mean we do not appreciate
it. I am certain your map will remain a success as a
private release, and am hopeful that this will not
keep you from continuing your career as level designer.
Take care,
-- Florian Schwarzer
www.NaturalSelection.org
Project Manager
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>DOWNLOAD AND THREAD HERE:</span></span>
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=90474' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....=ST&f=1&t=90474</a>
Comments
sorry to hear that
but err..
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Specifically, I'm sorry to say that your map is not up
to the visual standards we are imposing on our official
lineup. If you wish, I'll get you a more detailed list
of this point of criticism.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want to see that detailed list. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The devs did raise some good points but im quite saddend, i hope you ask for the list of things that need changing
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Specifically, I'm sorry to say that your map is not up
to the visual standards we are imposing on our official
lineup. If you wish, I'll get you a more detailed list
of this point of criticism.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm the next thing i would say is maybe work with a mapper who knows what the devs are looking for. Mendsap or just to get some ideas and infoon what visual things you could do to spurce things up.
What i do have to say is that if at first you dont succede, try try again.
Hopefully the devs give you a more definitive list of what exactly they want you to improve, and dont give up hope, there are loads of people behind you!
Keep up the good work!!
<span style='color:red'>id like to take this moment tho, to thank everyone who helped out with content, comments and testing, this map wuldnt hav even got off the ground if it wasnt for u guys, especially sorcerer and darkhand.
im gonna have to take some time out to think whether i want to continue with this project or release it as is, after all this was meant to be my last map and i wanted it to end with official status. but oh well, at least i can positively say that i am proud of this map, especially with all the problems which we encountered on the way, its a testamont to the ppl involved that we ever managed to finish it.
</span>
Meat
my condolances
to the visual standards we are imposing on our official
lineup. If you wish, I'll get you a more detailed list
of this point of criticism.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
o_0 so they final get lost of tanith?
seriously, the "visual standart" is the last thing I would critize about this map. Im refering to the video when I state that this map looks decent and does have ns atmosphere in it.
meat: dont quit. I dont know what the devs dont like but keep on! shure, its hard to get this map round since it inst a fullfrag ns or co map. but you could do something against it: release a beta. and take this cookies ... *Lt. Gravity gives Meat Popsicle the "Let-the-sun-shine"-cookie*
but either way release the map, although it won''t be any good to newbs who don't download custom maps.
continue working meat popsicle <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And, finally, release what you're comfortable with, that's what it counts.
And judging by that trailer you released, you made a kickass map, congrats.
Its not april fools is it?
I thought the map was better than most maps in terms of graphics and besides its HL1 you cant expect much.......
At least put it in the NS/maps folder and in the manual....... graphics DO NOT matter.
to the visual standards we are imposing on our official
lineup. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah well most of the 'official' maps follow suit too.....
I liked the preview video very much and I dunno what could be wrong about the map =(
but as gravity said: keep on working! I'll definitely play your beta (if there will be one)
This sucks meat. You put a lot of effort in this and I hope you do a private release.
You've put more than enough effort into this map, and I don't think anyone (apart from Lt. "Fight the Power" Gravity) would blame you for releasing it as it is. If you release it now and go through some beta testing then there's always the chance for re-application for this or a future (perhaps Source) version of NS.
NS would definitely be better off with an introductory tutorial map, a problem that you've addressed and provided a solution for. You've completed the map to a high standard with a notably NS atmosphere to it. That is something to be proud of, official or not.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->hmm well thank u for a proper response even if it did take a while..
i certainly hope u played the latest version i sent to Tyr last week and understood that i tried to make a <b>complete</b> training map, which covered everything including comm training (obviously a massive part of the game to new players even if theyre not going to use it) despite the obvious limitations of the mapping entities being designed for fps'ers. there was allways going to be coding required to get it to work, but i hoped u wuld have seen the potential of a map like this as oppose to other training maps which r essentially an audio manual where players will learn <u>nothing</u>. And as far as im concerned the only coding required wuld be a level change entity, and something that can trigger the game without sv_cheats or restrict the fast build and research times.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your project was certainly the most ambitious of its kind, and it is impressive that you truly consider this one entity the only thing you need, but our plans are honestly a little more far reaching than that. The good news is that you'll likely be able to profit of these changes once they are made, in more ways than you'd think.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->as for the not visually up to standard comment this was what i found to be the most devastating... every mapper has his own style but i positively believed that this map was of official quality when compared to some of the other official maps, but i spose ur viewing it from a fresh pair of eyes which is unfortunately something i cant do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Speaking as someone who had two maps vetoed by Flayra due to visual considerations, I can definetly see what you mean. The thing you should consider is that this feedback should <i>not</i> deduct from your artistic self-esteem. Most everyone with enough stamina to create a project such as this will have defined an own style, and if that does not line up with other people's expectations, it really is unfortunate, but sadly not easily remediable.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i would appreciate ur feedback on the visual side of things tho, even tho i havnt decided on the future of the map and whether its worth releasing at all with the whole 'not fully supported commander training section' (something which i wuld hav simplified greatly if the structure entities worked properlly, and i had support for stopping mp3 files)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We're currently very deep in work, so I can't promise my feedback will arrive soon, but you'll get a detailed mail as soon as I can afford.
Thanks for taking it as well as you do. I hope to be able to come to a more favorable conclusion regarding your further work in the future.
-- Florian<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it sounds like im not gonna get feedback any time soon (if at all), so im gonna (begrudgingly) release my map soon, if thats ok with sorcerer as hes hosting it at the mo
Meat
That can be arranged. *Sneaky gangster laugh*
anyway...
<span style='color:red'>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS IS AN INCOMPLETE MAP! IT CANNOT EVER BE COMPLETED WITHOUT CODING INTERVENTION, NS JUST DOES NOT HAV THE ENTS!
Also being a single player map for a multiplayer game means it has to be run with certain considerations...
1. for simplicity, run the map from the shortcut provided. If the provided link does not work either modify the shortcut or go to "play games" of steam, rightclick on natural selection and create a desktop shortcut. Within that created shortcut go into the launch parameter where it says STEAM.exe -applaunch 70 -game "ns"
add
-console -32bpp +map ns_training +sv_cheats 1 +cl_musicenabled 0
behind it. and lauch ns with that shortcut.
2. the map comes with a custom titles.txt so make a backup of your old one, if u speak a different language/have bots
3. no F1'ing or F2'ing to trigger the round start. itll happen when the maps ready and not when u walk thru the 'join marines' bit
4. Alt-tabbing out can mess up the audio synching of events (especially in the briefing room, just sit it out, i promise once the educational crap gets out of the way it gets better)
5. unfortunately due to sv_cheats being on build and research times r about 10 times quicker than in an actual game, this means sounds <b>will</b> overrun if u drop an object in the commander training section <b>before</b> the audio has finished describing it.
if u didnt get that last point, just play the map like if u were a nub and take ur time. i will release it tommorow and ignore any comments from ppl who clearly havnt read thru this
Meat
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
</span>
and remember any training map wuld hav to hav the above taken into consideration without help in the form of coding, please do not judge the map on it..
p.s. the target_mp3 enetity is notoriously dodgy, if the begginings of sounds r cut off resulting in dodgy synching, again its not my fault <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- the trainings map comes with a custom titles.txt so make a backup of your old one.
- If the provided link does not work go to "play games" of steam, rightclick on natural selection and create a desktop shortcut. Within that created shortcut go into the launch parameter where it says STEAM.exe -applaunch 70 -game "ns"
add
+map ns_training +sv_cheats 1 +cl_musicenabled 0
behind it. and lauch ns with that shortcut.
*added to previous post*
If nothing else there was closure for ya. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If nothing else there was closure for ya. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
that is a damn good idea!
itll be interesting to see what they say can be coded for it, i guess ill hav to make an installer it for it as well tho, anyone know how i can go about this?
im gonna delay the release until i look more into this, sorry guys, but if they culd create a script that lets me trigger the game start without sv_cheats then my map will be in a playable enough state to release properlly <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I assure you the NS team is doing a lot better than the ZP team . . . .
Serriously what is with all the naysayers lately. The dev team/playtester team/contributers invest hundreds of man hours into a game that hits all kinds of limits and is one of the most unique mods out there, and they upload it for free . . yet everyday there are more and more people complaining about things.
Time is the ultimate limiter for everyone. Especially since noone gets paid, noone can devote all of their time into developing NS as their job. Considering what y'all get for free, I don't think you have any right to complain.
Its happening for a reason. Things that need to be addressed get ignored or put aside, and things that dont need touching get "fixed" (i.e. Broken)