<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 26 2005, 02:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 26 2005, 02:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Feb 26 2005, 02:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Feb 26 2005, 02:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-reasa+Feb 26 2005, 02:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Feb 26 2005, 02:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Feb 26 2005, 02:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Feb 26 2005, 02:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kida+Feb 26 2005, 07:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kida @ Feb 26 2005, 07:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> it's just a big hissyfit. god's probably laffin his arse off. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed He probably is. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> Reminds me of that South Park episode: Guy1: "What, what am I doing in Hell? I was a devout Catholic!" Guy2: "I was a devout Protestant!" Satan representative...guy: "I'm sorry, people, the correct religion was the Mormons. Yes, the Mormons." Big Crowd: "Awwwww...."
Or something like that <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's funny but it brings up a really good point, all the religions, and there are quite a few, believe fully they are the one and only correct path to heaven/paradise/virginland.
We have absolutely no way of knowing which of them, if any are correct, so the best thing you can do is live life to the fullest the way you would want to live it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Another point for my way of looking at things. I'm fairly certain most religions in the world include some kind of "be nice to the people around you" law, so voila! all good people get into heaven; God doesn't judge based on where you were born/what your parents believed (big influences on a person's religion). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Is there any scriptural basis for this, or is this just something people come up with, because they want it this way? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What, the "Be nice" thing, or the assumption that there is no one true religion and God's going to spite everyone else for not being born in a place where the "right" religion is common? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> The first has the backing of Jesus, the second is just me assuming that God's not a ****.
<!--QuoteBegin-ZeroByte+Feb 26 2005, 09:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZeroByte @ Feb 26 2005, 09:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[...]To slightly veer off-topic, the cynical view of we-are-Gods-anthill just does not work. You're looking at it from a human perspective, at how you as a human would feel. You don't know how a higher being would feel so no, it just doesn't work.[...]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh but it does! And it's not cynical either I think.
God created man in his image, right? I'm convinced that this does not apply to something as superficial as outward appearance, but to the mind. The MIND is where we are unparralelled. Physically, we are constantly outclassed by the animals. Of course we also have opposable thumbs, but God wouldn't need hands if he's all-powerful.
No, it's in our minds that we resemble God. So in some way, we think just like he does. At a lower level, granted, and yet we are similar. So I firmly believe the anthill analogy works. Again, you cannot prove me wrong, so stop trying. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm going to go with CWAG on this one and agree you both are citing your religions for reference that talk about tolerance, and yet judging each other at the same time. GG Hypocrites. :-)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "Decentering" is one of Derrida's earliest terms, made famous and controversial by "Structure, Sign, and Play." It is worth noting at the outset that Derridean decentering is not defined by the absence of all centrality (a common misconception). Instead it is defined by multicentering, a potential emergence of many centers and claims upon one or another centrality in the absence of a single, absolute center that would define its alternatives as unconditionally marginal. - Arkady Plotnitsky<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- <a href='http://muse.jhu.edu' target='_blank'>Taken from some link you can't access unless you're in University://Taken from some link you can't ...e in University</a>
Ahh... this great pluralistic world of ours... Why do we bother to have this forum if everyone here frowns upon the idea of any universal absolutes?
Oh right, to see people fling dung at each other.
In that case, continue.
<b>User Warn Level was increased by 5 points for this unconstructive post.</b>
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>This post has been edited by <b>Self-Moderation S.I.R. ver. 3.1</b> on Feb 26 2005, 08:00 PM</span>
To slightly veer off-topic, the cynical view of we-are-Gods-anthill just does not work. You're looking at it from a human perspective, at how you as a human would feel. You don't know how a higher being would feel so no, it just doesn't work. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Let me comment on this since it brings up an interesting idea, one that I can tie into science as well.
Now, lets say God as a being doesn't exist as we know it. Lets say he exists outside the boundaries of our knowledge.
How would this be possible? What would it be like?
Well, guess what, according to new theories in physicis, it is VERY possible, likely to some theorists even.
Its called string theory, and you'll need some background info.
Previous to string (and still today) there are two actual schools of provable physics. General Relativity (Einstein) for large big objects, and Quantum Mechanics (Bohr) for sub-atomic particles.
They both work, and have been tested, one problem. They don't work together. So the search for one law to govern them all has been an ongoing search for many scientists dealing with this, and now they have a mathematical forumla that works in both schools, albeit it is theoretical.
Only problem? Well, here's where this debate about God/anthill comes in.
String theory works in 11 dimensions. Thats right 11 friggin dimensions. To give you an idea of what thats like, we live in 3 dimensions (left right, forward backward, up down) with the 4th dimension (time) being one that we know exists but can't really move in. String theory works in 10 dimensions plus the 11th being time.
Imagine 7 more dimensions to move in than we already have. Oh wait, we can't. Our brains aren't developed that way. It is literally beyond our realm of full comprehension. We can show it using tensors and complicated mathematics, but to actually understand it beyond theory is pretty much impossible at this point.
Which is where the idea of God may come into play.
If God existed on these extra planes of existence, with the full capacity to understand,create, and manipulate in them, can we full relate to his existence?
Can we actually feel confident, if string theory holds true, to say that there is or isn't a God?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now, lets say God as a being doesn't exist as we know it. Lets say he exists outside the boundaries of our knowledge.
How would this be possible? What would it be like?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is this, some sort of riddle for coma patients? You are essentialy asking: what would something we can't understand be like? Or, in simpler terms: what's a blind man's favorite color?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Which is where the idea of God may come into play.
If God existed on these extra planes of existence, with the full capacity to understand,create, and manipulate in them, can we full relate to his existence?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's something of a stretch. Litterally. Because string theory also says that these other dimensions are "rolled up" to a degree that we can't detect them, and not much can happen in them. Suggesting that God is living in some other dimension is about as helpful as suggesting he lives on the dark side of the moonJupiter.
For someone who understands the question you still failed to comprehend it.
The answer to what would something we can't understand be like, and the answer you gave, is it would be something beyond our understanding. Begging the question perhaps, but it is more rhetorical in nature, something you failed to understand.
As far as not much happening in these extra dimensions your pretty far off the mark. You see, in these dimensions, theoretically, is where strings maintain a singular "tone" of energy which maintains the cosmic constants (the strength of electromagnetic forces, gravity, the strong nuclear forces etc). Without these constants the universe simply wouldn't exist.
If you could manipulate these strings that exist in these extra dimensions you could literally change the fabric of existence.
Plus, as dimensions go, you simply don't know what can happen in them. Using your analogy, it would be like a blind person trying to understand color on the level that we understand it.
Lets take another simple example, the hydrogen bomb. By extracting and removing the strong nuclear force that holds atoms together all that energy is released. Thats from our ability to effect something on an atomic level.
Take that further and imagine doing that to something that is not only much smaller and more important as a building block for the universe, but exists in multiple dimensions.
Again, truth be said, we can't, simple because our minds aren't wired for it.
Psst, Fat Man. Just for future reference, nix on the condescending posts. Most of us have been here long enough, and have been through enough arguments on huge variety of subjects, that there is very little in the realm of science or religion that we would have no clue about. Saying something like <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->String theory works in 11 dimensions. Thats right 11 friggin dimensions. To give you an idea of what thats like, we live in 3 dimensions (left right, forward backward, up down) with the 4th dimension (time) being one that we know exists but can't really move in. String theory works in 10 dimensions plus the 11th being time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> is rather rude, because you're assuming that few to none of the people reading your post have ever heard of string theory, which I assure you is quite false. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> So just a little tip for etiquette in the Discussion Forum: when in doubt, don't assume your audience is idiotic. If asked for clarification, by all means give it, but don't come in with a high and mighty attitude.
Now, at Cyndane: I hope that comment wasn't directed at me. If you read my posts you would see that I'm quite the epitome of tolerance; I even said that all religions are valid because God (or the deity of your choice) wouldn't care what specific religion you practiced because it's not really a choice in most cases.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The answer to what would something we can't understand be like, and the answer you gave, is it would be something beyond our understanding.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, obviously. The problem is that you then directly launch into a discussion of what it would be like!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You see, in these dimensions, theoretically, is where strings maintain a singular "tone" of energy which maintains the cosmic constants<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The whole point of those dimensions being constricted, however, is that the strings are highly constrained within them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Plus, as dimensions go, you simply don't know what can happen in them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know what the theory suggests happens in them: almost nothing. Maybe there's more than that, but that's just goofy speculation, as goofy and as ungrounded as discussing God living in a black hole.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Again, truth be said, we can't, simple because our minds aren't wired for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, all except your amazing mind, which apparently can see all these things.
@Sky: It was directed at anyone who uses their faith to preach tolerance and then pre-judges someone else. Be that Catholism, Protestant, or anyone. It was a general statement, no offense meant, but still rings very true.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Feb 27 2005, 04:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Feb 27 2005, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Psst, Fat Man. Just for future reference, nix on the condescending posts. Most of us have been here long enough, and have been through enough arguments on huge variety of subjects.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Really.
Hmm, considering that I've been signed up on these forums longer than you, and visiting this site from the beginning you'd think I'd be more aware of idiots like you who mistake my enthusiasm for condenscending behavior.
The fact that you found it condensending that I explained "String Theory" leads me to believe two things.
one, you find people who explain string theory on a gaming website to be patronizing/condescending.
You define these dimensions as almost literal dimensions. Which we cannot do. You fail to understand that our definitions of dimensions simple aren't applicable. When you chose to go on how "not much can go on in these rolled up dimensions" you were completely wrong.
Just because they're small and "confined" doesn't mean much goes on in it at all. Look at your skin. Then look at a cell, then go smaller into the mitochondria, then into the DNA, then into the very protein strands and well you get it. Even on an atomic levels tons of **** is going on.
It seems like you think that small and tiny = not a lot of **** can go on. Perhaps its true in the application to your brain, but not to everything in life.
Fat Man, the reality is, you are taking a fairly specualtive scientific theory, and adding wild and almost random speculations based on absolutely nothing. You barely seem to understand the theory, let alone make any sense. The dimensions are supposed to be rolled up so small that they severely constrain the movement of even particles, much less anything else. They have to be, or else we'd be able to detect them (if they are there at all: we don't actually know, since we can't really test it at the moment).
Fat Man Little Coat, it's a huge leap of logic to go from "Fundamentally Incomprehensible to Humans" to go to "God Did It" or religious/spiritual analogies.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If God existed on these extra planes of existence, with the full capacity to understand,create, and manipulate in them, can we full relate to his existence?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why make this assumption? What does this even mean?
Try imagining the Theory of Relativity or the expansion of space. How can the human mind possibly comprehend time as a relative entity or space as expanding? The only way that we can comprehend it is through mathematical models, but we still can't really visualize it ourselves. But we don't take a leap towards God, just because we don't fully comprehend it.
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 2 2005, 03:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 2 2005, 03:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fat Man Little Coat, it's a huge leap of logic to go from "Fundamentally Incomprehensible to Humans" to go to "God Did It" or religious/spiritual analogies.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If God existed on these extra planes of existence, with the full capacity to understand,create, and manipulate in them, can we full relate to his existence?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why make this assumption? What does this even mean?
Try imagining the Theory of Relativity or the expansion of space. How can the human mind possibly comprehend time as a relative entity or space as expanding? The only way that we can comprehend it is through mathematical models, but we still can't really visualize it ourselves. But we don't take a leap towards God, just because we don't fully comprehend it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> For one thing, we can comprehend relativity. Not me per se, but there are humans who can. We've tested it, we've proved it, we can understand it.
As far as 10 dimensions goes, we cannot understand it. When I say can't I don't mean we can't produce it mathematically (we can) but we cannot fully comprehend it because our brains are not wired for it.
Again, please check out this <a href='http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/dimensions.html' target='_blank'>site</a> , and I'll even quote it:<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If superstring theory turns out to be correct, the idea of a world consisting of 10 or more dimensions is one that we'll need to become comfortable with. <b>But will there ever be an explanation or a visual representation of higher dimensions that will truly satisfy the human mind? The answer to this question may forever be no. Not unless some four-dimensional life-form pulls us from our three-dimensional Spaceland and gives us a view of the world from its perspective. </b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We can understand Relativity because it occurs in 3 dimensional space. We can do experiments which prove it as well. We can understand Quantum mechanics for the same reason. We can do experiments that prove it as well.
String theory we cannot (perhaps through math we can understand the underlying concepts and implications), because it occurs on such tiny levels and it also occurs in multiple dimensions, which WE CANNOT <a href='http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/dimensions.html' target='_blank'>UNDERSTAND</a>it as a sure thing.
Now, as far as GOD is concerened, if someone did magic, and I mean REAL magic like appear and disapear, we'd consider these abilities super natural. If a person could exist next to each other at the same time we considered this super natural. If a person could die, travel in time, and come back, pass through matter etc this would be considered super natural.
Well, this does occur, on a quantum level (not the dying). This is very possible. Now imagine this happening in another dimension, then another, and then another.
The rules of our reality doesn't apply. God could be as small as a sub atomic particle, yet affect the entire universe.
Sounds insane, but thats what I'm saying, its all possible.
Let me add in caution: If I sound over zealous its not meant that way. Rather, this something I've done a bit of reading and researching on to the point where I feel confident with the points I make.
If it sounds overstated, its more from the confidence of someone who did his homework than anything else so take it with a grain of salt.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fat Man Little Coat+Mar 2 2005, 02:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fat Man Little Coat @ Mar 2 2005, 02:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Feb 27 2005, 04:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Feb 27 2005, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Psst, Fat Man. Just for future reference, nix on the condescending posts. Most of us have been here long enough, and have been through enough arguments on huge variety of subjects.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Really.
Hmm, considering that I've been signed up on these forums longer than you, <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I predate you by a fair bit longer and I think you're being a general asshat, which I don't really have a problem with actually, <b>so long as you're being technically correct</b>. In this case however, you're not and having a condescending attitude backed up simply by one train wreck of a logical fallacy doesn't put you on any good ground at all.
Oh and don't pull the "I've been here X period of time longer" crap on people, there is always a bigger fish.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As far as 10 dimensions goes, we cannot understand it. When I say can't I don't mean we can't produce it mathematically (we can) but we cannot fully comprehend it because our brains are not wired for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This doesn't mean we can't build machines or similar that can understand multiple dimensions <b>for us</b> however. My brain is not 'wired' to see an atom or even something as simple as a bacterium, but by using a machine I can look at things on a scale that I could never do so normally. Just because WE can't see something that is only nanometers wide, doesn't mean we WON'T be able to at any point.
Quite frankly, I'm not really buying your assertations and what ultimately boils down to a completely fallcious argument (namely an argument ad ignoratum). If you can make an argument that isn't simply a logical fallacy go ahead, otherwise drop the condesending tone - you haven't the argumentative logic to back it up.
Summary of your argument:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For one thing, we can comprehend relativity. Not me per se, but there are humans who can. We've tested it, we've proved it, we can understand it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stating the obvious, followed by an unsupported assertation.
Mangled quote, of course you ignore the 'may' part and turn it into a definitive statement when it isn't. The quote itself is also just speculation, which pretty much is your whole argument anyway. In any event, something more credible than PBS thank you, I'd rather an actual credible journal and I know there are several RECENT papers on string theory in the last few issues of science.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We can understand Relativity because it occurs in 3 dimensional space. We can do experiments which prove it as well. We can understand Quantum mechanics for the same reason. We can do experiments that prove it as well. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, stating the obvious.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->String theory we cannot (perhaps through math we can understand the underlying concepts and implications), because it occurs on such tiny levels and it also occurs in multiple dimensions, which WE CANNOT UNDERSTANDit as a sure thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, another unsupported assertation and you trot out the whole 'we can't understand it' blah-blah argument without actually managing to demonstrate why we could NEVER understand it. I could go back several hundred years and make the same argument you are now about microorganisms.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now, as far as GOD is concerened, if someone did magic, and I mean REAL magic like appear and disapear, we'd consider these abilities super natural. If a person could exist next to each other at the same time we considered this super natural. If a person could die, travel in time, and come back, pass through matter etc this would be considered super natural.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And this somehow proves God?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, this does occur, on a quantum level (not the dying). This is very possible. Now imagine this happening in another dimension, then another, and then another.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, you fail to PROVE how this indicates a God. This is just speculation from you with no actual evidence.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The rules of our reality doesn't apply. God could be as small as a sub atomic particle, yet affect the entire universe.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unsupported assertation and an argument ad ignoratum, my aren't we doing well! You haven't supported this notion and you're simply using the "it hasn't been proven otherwise, therefore this is true!" argument, which just to point it out once more is a logical fallacy.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sounds insane, but thats what I'm saying, its all possible.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Argument ad ignoratum.
I don't care if you think it's 'possible', if you think you can pull out definitive statements then please make sure you back them up with actual facts. I don't care for basic speculation that you're asserting is right (which is all you have done).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Let me add in caution: If I sound over zealous its not meant that way. Rather, this something I've done a bit of reading and researching on to the point where I feel confident with the points I make.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately when debating, it doesn't matter if you think that, it's the people or audience you are trying to convince that has to think that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it sounds overstated, its more from the confidence of someone who did his homework than anything else so take it with a grain of salt. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then do some debating instead, there you will learn that the great range of logical fallacies are not a good base for an argument to begin with.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We can understand Relativity because it occurs in 3 dimensional space. We can do experiments which prove it as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do realize that relativity started out as an unproven theory, right? We proved it later once we were able to create instruments able to measure the precise effects of it. In fact, parts of it we've only just proven in the past couple of years.
String theory is the same way. I don't even think a mature theory has emerged yet (I'm not a physicist, so I could be wrong). The 10 dimensions theory is relatively new. I have no doubt that we will be eventually able to prove it, unless it's false. If it's provable, then it's understandable, using machinery, like <b>Aegeri</b> said, or using mathematical models that act as an analogue.
Comments
Indeed He probably is. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Reminds me of that South Park episode:
Guy1: "What, what am I doing in Hell? I was a devout Catholic!"
Guy2: "I was a devout Protestant!"
Satan representative...guy: "I'm sorry, people, the correct religion was the Mormons. Yes, the Mormons."
Big Crowd: "Awwwww...."
Or something like that <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's funny but it brings up a really good point, all the religions, and there are quite a few, believe fully they are the one and only correct path to heaven/paradise/virginland.
We have absolutely no way of knowing which of them, if any are correct, so the best thing you can do is live life to the fullest the way you would want to live it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another point for my way of looking at things. I'm fairly certain most religions in the world include some kind of "be nice to the people around you" law, so voila! all good people get into heaven; God doesn't judge based on where you were born/what your parents believed (big influences on a person's religion). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is there any scriptural basis for this, or is this just something people come up with, because they want it this way? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What, the "Be nice" thing, or the assumption that there is no one true religion and God's going to spite everyone else for not being born in a place where the "right" religion is common? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> The first has the backing of Jesus, the second is just me assuming that God's not a ****.
Oh but it does! And it's not cynical either I think.
God created man in his image, right? I'm convinced that this does not apply to something as superficial as outward appearance, but to the mind. The MIND is where we are unparralelled. Physically, we are constantly outclassed by the animals. Of course we also have opposable thumbs, but God wouldn't need hands if he's all-powerful.
No, it's in our minds that we resemble God. So in some way, we think just like he does. At a lower level, granted, and yet we are similar. So I firmly believe the anthill analogy works. Again, you cannot prove me wrong, so stop trying. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- <a href='http://muse.jhu.edu' target='_blank'>Taken from some link you can't access unless you're in University://Taken from some link you can't ...e in University</a>
Ahh... this great pluralistic world of ours... Why do we bother to have this forum if everyone here frowns upon the idea of any universal absolutes?
Oh right, to see people fling dung at each other.
In that case, continue.
<b>User Warn Level was increased by 5 points for this unconstructive post.</b>
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>This post has been edited by <b>Self-Moderation S.I.R. ver. 3.1</b> on Feb 26 2005, 08:00 PM</span>
To slightly veer off-topic, the cynical view of we-are-Gods-anthill just does not work. You're looking at it from a human perspective, at how you as a human would feel. You don't know how a higher being would feel so no, it just doesn't work.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let me comment on this since it brings up an interesting idea, one that I can tie into science as well.
Now, lets say God as a being doesn't exist as we know it. Lets say he exists outside the boundaries of our knowledge.
How would this be possible? What would it be like?
Well, guess what, according to new theories in physicis, it is VERY possible, likely to some theorists even.
Its called string theory, and you'll need some background info.
Previous to string (and still today) there are two actual schools of provable physics. General Relativity (Einstein) for large big objects, and Quantum Mechanics (Bohr) for sub-atomic particles.
They both work, and have been tested, one problem. They don't work together. So the search for one law to govern them all has been an ongoing search for many scientists dealing with this, and now they have a mathematical forumla that works in both schools, albeit it is theoretical.
Only problem? Well, here's where this debate about God/anthill comes in.
String theory works in 11 dimensions. Thats right 11 friggin dimensions. To give you an idea of what thats like, we live in 3 dimensions (left right, forward backward, up down) with the 4th dimension (time) being one that we know exists but can't really move in. String theory works in 10 dimensions plus the 11th being time.
Imagine 7 more dimensions to move in than we already have. Oh wait, we can't. Our brains aren't developed that way. It is literally beyond our realm of full comprehension. We can show it using tensors and complicated mathematics, but to actually understand it beyond theory is pretty much impossible at this point.
<a href='http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/dimensions.html' target='_blank'>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/dimensions.html</a>
Which is where the idea of God may come into play.
If God existed on these extra planes of existence, with the full capacity to understand,create, and manipulate in them, can we full relate to his existence?
Can we actually feel confident, if string theory holds true, to say that there is or isn't a God?
more: <a href='http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html' target='_blank'>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html</a>
How would this be possible? What would it be like?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is this, some sort of riddle for coma patients? You are essentialy asking: what would something we can't understand be like? Or, in simpler terms: what's a blind man's favorite color?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Which is where the idea of God may come into play.
If God existed on these extra planes of existence, with the full capacity to understand,create, and manipulate in them, can we full relate to his existence?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's something of a stretch. Litterally. Because string theory also says that these other dimensions are "rolled up" to a degree that we can't detect them, and not much can happen in them. Suggesting that God is living in some other dimension is about as helpful as suggesting he lives on the dark side of the moonJupiter.
The answer to what would something we can't understand be like, and the answer you gave, is it would be something beyond our understanding. Begging the question perhaps, but it is more rhetorical in nature, something you failed to understand.
As far as not much happening in these extra dimensions your pretty far off the mark.
You see, in these dimensions, theoretically, is where strings maintain a singular "tone" of energy which maintains the cosmic constants (the strength of electromagnetic forces, gravity, the strong nuclear forces etc). Without these constants the universe simply wouldn't exist.
If you could manipulate these strings that exist in these extra dimensions you could literally change the fabric of existence.
Plus, as dimensions go, you simply don't know what can happen in them. Using your analogy, it would be like a blind person trying to understand color on the level that we understand it.
Lets take another simple example, the hydrogen bomb. By extracting and removing the strong nuclear force that holds atoms together all that energy is released. Thats from our ability to effect something on an atomic level.
Take that further and imagine doing that to something that is not only much smaller and more important as a building block for the universe, but exists in multiple dimensions.
Again, truth be said, we can't, simple because our minds aren't wired for it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->String theory works in 11 dimensions. Thats right 11 friggin dimensions. To give you an idea of what thats like, we live in 3 dimensions (left right, forward backward, up down) with the 4th dimension (time) being one that we know exists but can't really move in. String theory works in 10 dimensions plus the 11th being time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
is rather rude, because you're assuming that few to none of the people reading your post have ever heard of string theory, which I assure you is quite false. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> So just a little tip for etiquette in the Discussion Forum: when in doubt, don't assume your audience is idiotic. If asked for clarification, by all means give it, but don't come in with a high and mighty attitude.
Now, at Cyndane: I hope that comment wasn't directed at me. If you read my posts you would see that I'm quite the epitome of tolerance; I even said that all religions are valid because God (or the deity of your choice) wouldn't care what specific religion you practiced because it's not really a choice in most cases.
Well, obviously. The problem is that you then directly launch into a discussion of what it would be like!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You see, in these dimensions, theoretically, is where strings maintain a singular "tone" of energy which maintains the cosmic constants<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The whole point of those dimensions being constricted, however, is that the strings are highly constrained within them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Plus, as dimensions go, you simply don't know what can happen in them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know what the theory suggests happens in them: almost nothing. Maybe there's more than that, but that's just goofy speculation, as goofy and as ungrounded as discussing God living in a black hole.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Again, truth be said, we can't, simple because our minds aren't wired for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, all except your amazing mind, which apparently can see all these things.
It was a general statement, no offense meant, but still rings very true.
Really.
Hmm, considering that I've been signed up on these forums longer than you, and visiting this site from the beginning you'd think I'd be more aware of idiots like you who mistake my enthusiasm for condenscending behavior.
The fact that you found it condensending that I explained "String Theory" leads me to believe two things.
one, you find people who explain string theory on a gaming website to be patronizing/condescending.
two, you are really oversensitive.
You define these dimensions as almost literal dimensions. Which we cannot do. You fail to understand that our definitions of dimensions simple aren't applicable. When you chose to go on how "not much can go on in these rolled up dimensions" you were completely wrong.
Just because they're small and "confined" doesn't mean much goes on in it at all. Look at your skin. Then look at a cell, then go smaller into the mitochondria, then into the DNA, then into the very protein strands and well you get it. Even on an atomic levels tons of **** is going on.
It seems like you think that small and tiny = not a lot of **** can go on.
Perhaps its true in the application to your brain, but not to everything in life.
it's a huge leap of logic to go from "Fundamentally Incomprehensible to Humans" to go to "God Did It" or religious/spiritual analogies.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If God existed on these extra planes of existence, with the full capacity to understand,create, and manipulate in them, can we full relate to his existence?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why make this assumption? What does this even mean?
Try imagining the Theory of Relativity or the expansion of space. How can the human mind possibly comprehend time as a relative entity or space as expanding? The only way that we can comprehend it is through mathematical models, but we still can't really visualize it ourselves. But we don't take a leap towards God, just because we don't fully comprehend it.
it's a huge leap of logic to go from "Fundamentally Incomprehensible to Humans" to go to "God Did It" or religious/spiritual analogies.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If God existed on these extra planes of existence, with the full capacity to understand,create, and manipulate in them, can we full relate to his existence?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why make this assumption? What does this even mean?
Try imagining the Theory of Relativity or the expansion of space. How can the human mind possibly comprehend time as a relative entity or space as expanding? The only way that we can comprehend it is through mathematical models, but we still can't really visualize it ourselves. But we don't take a leap towards God, just because we don't fully comprehend it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For one thing, we can comprehend relativity. Not me per se, but there are humans who can. We've tested it, we've proved it, we can understand it.
As far as 10 dimensions goes, we cannot understand it. When I say can't I don't mean we can't produce it mathematically (we can) but we cannot fully comprehend it because our brains are not wired for it.
Again, please check out this <a href='http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/dimensions.html' target='_blank'>site</a> , and I'll even quote it:<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
If superstring theory turns out to be correct, the idea of a world consisting of 10 or more dimensions is one that we'll need to become comfortable with. <b>But will there ever be an explanation or a visual representation of higher dimensions that will truly satisfy the human mind? The answer to this question may forever be no. Not unless some four-dimensional life-form pulls us from our three-dimensional Spaceland and gives us a view of the world from its perspective. </b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We can understand Relativity because it occurs in 3 dimensional space. We can do experiments which prove it as well.
We can understand Quantum mechanics for the same reason. We can do experiments that prove it as well.
String theory we cannot (perhaps through math we can understand the underlying concepts and implications), because it occurs on such tiny levels and it also occurs in multiple dimensions, which WE CANNOT <a href='http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/dimensions.html' target='_blank'>UNDERSTAND</a>it as a sure thing.
Now, as far as GOD is concerened, if someone did magic, and I mean REAL magic like appear and disapear, we'd consider these abilities super natural.
If a person could exist next to each other at the same time we considered this super natural.
If a person could die, travel in time, and come back, pass through matter etc this would be considered super natural.
Well, this does occur, on a quantum level (not the dying). This is very possible. Now imagine this happening in another dimension, then another, and then another.
The rules of our reality doesn't apply. God could be as small as a sub atomic particle, yet affect the entire universe.
Sounds insane, but thats what I'm saying, its all possible.
Let me add in caution: If I sound over zealous its not meant that way. Rather, this something I've done a bit of reading and researching on to the point where I feel confident with the points I make.
If it sounds overstated, its more from the confidence of someone who did his homework than anything else so take it with a grain of salt.
Really.
Hmm, considering that I've been signed up on these forums longer than you, <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I predate you by a fair bit longer and I think you're being a general asshat, which I don't really have a problem with actually, <b>so long as you're being technically correct</b>. In this case however, you're not and having a condescending attitude backed up simply by one train wreck of a logical fallacy doesn't put you on any good ground at all.
Oh and don't pull the "I've been here X period of time longer" crap on people, there is always a bigger fish.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As far as 10 dimensions goes, we cannot understand it. When I say can't I don't mean we can't produce it mathematically (we can) but we cannot fully comprehend it because our brains are not wired for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This doesn't mean we can't build machines or similar that can understand multiple dimensions <b>for us</b> however. My brain is not 'wired' to see an atom or even something as simple as a bacterium, but by using a machine I can look at things on a scale that I could never do so normally. Just because WE can't see something that is only nanometers wide, doesn't mean we WON'T be able to at any point.
Quite frankly, I'm not really buying your assertations and what ultimately boils down to a completely fallcious argument (namely an argument ad ignoratum). If you can make an argument that isn't simply a logical fallacy go ahead, otherwise drop the condesending tone - you haven't the argumentative logic to back it up.
Summary of your argument:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For one thing, we can comprehend relativity. Not me per se, but there are humans who can. We've tested it, we've proved it, we can understand it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stating the obvious, followed by an unsupported assertation.
Mangled quote, of course you ignore the 'may' part and turn it into a definitive statement when it isn't. The quote itself is also just speculation, which pretty much is your whole argument anyway. In any event, something more credible than PBS thank you, I'd rather an actual credible journal and I know there are several RECENT papers on string theory in the last few issues of science.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We can understand Relativity because it occurs in 3 dimensional space. We can do experiments which prove it as well.
We can understand Quantum mechanics for the same reason. We can do experiments that prove it as well. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, stating the obvious.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->String theory we cannot (perhaps through math we can understand the underlying concepts and implications), because it occurs on such tiny levels and it also occurs in multiple dimensions, which WE CANNOT UNDERSTANDit as a sure thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, another unsupported assertation and you trot out the whole 'we can't understand it' blah-blah argument without actually managing to demonstrate why we could NEVER understand it. I could go back several hundred years and make the same argument you are now about microorganisms.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now, as far as GOD is concerened, if someone did magic, and I mean REAL magic like appear and disapear, we'd consider these abilities super natural.
If a person could exist next to each other at the same time we considered this super natural.
If a person could die, travel in time, and come back, pass through matter etc this would be considered super natural.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And this somehow proves God?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, this does occur, on a quantum level (not the dying). This is very possible. Now imagine this happening in another dimension, then another, and then another.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, you fail to PROVE how this indicates a God. This is just speculation from you with no actual evidence.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The rules of our reality doesn't apply. God could be as small as a sub atomic particle, yet affect the entire universe.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unsupported assertation and an argument ad ignoratum, my aren't we doing well! You haven't supported this notion and you're simply using the "it hasn't been proven otherwise, therefore this is true!" argument, which just to point it out once more is a logical fallacy.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sounds insane, but thats what I'm saying, its all possible.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Argument ad ignoratum.
I don't care if you think it's 'possible', if you think you can pull out definitive statements then please make sure you back them up with actual facts. I don't care for basic speculation that you're asserting is right (which is all you have done).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Let me add in caution: If I sound over zealous its not meant that way. Rather, this something I've done a bit of reading and researching on to the point where I feel confident with the points I make.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately when debating, it doesn't matter if you think that, it's the people or audience you are trying to convince that has to think that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it sounds overstated, its more from the confidence of someone who did his homework than anything else so take it with a grain of salt. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then do some debating instead, there you will learn that the great range of logical fallacies are not a good base for an argument to begin with.
You do realize that relativity started out as an unproven theory, right? We proved it later once we were able to create instruments able to measure the precise effects of it. In fact, parts of it we've only just proven in the past couple of years.
String theory is the same way. I don't even think a mature theory has emerged yet (I'm not a physicist, so I could be wrong). The 10 dimensions theory is relatively new. I have no doubt that we will be eventually able to prove it, unless it's false. If it's provable, then it's understandable, using machinery, like <b>Aegeri</b> said, or using mathematical models that act as an analogue.