<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> you could do better including details like pipes computer monitors or cables and grates.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> i played co_phoniex and look too mcuh with prometeus and rember to bump this to ask your map will go alpha or make the changes you planing to show up more 1 beta?
Im currently prepareing a new beta, (hopefully) the last one. I got the R-speeds in every area now under control and below the official limit, i reworked areas to include more detail, but keeping the r_speeds. Layout was changed again, and should now be balanced, good. I includet now finally the sounds i wanted in the map, to make it more lifelike (i hate to run around in a silent map), before thsi there was only the sound of the steam and waterdrops <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->, now there is much more athmosphere.
Well, you can see, quite a major thing, im currently up to some tweaking and clipping for smother gameplay, i guess you can expect that beta/final in one or two days
Well, as promised, im here, riding on the update train, bringing Prometheus_b20 to your PCs and hopefully to your hearts.
Bt without further delay i will go on to the updates: First an overview and minimap update, so you can see what i am talking about: <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2709/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2710/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> here are the main layout changes: -a new weldabe vent connecting powerblocks and nanogrid control -a new weldable vent connecting Command hive and Seondary Datanode -shortcut to delta juction must be welded open, now -Rt Sattelite uplink is now closer to ms, also is the elevation now downwards towards that rt -marines have now to cross through Subspace antenna to reach Power blocks -Power blocks is effectively cut into two rooms - main shaft alpha revised
The new marinestart is now better lit and good defendable from alien attacks, clipping problems solved: <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2786/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Marines have now to go along this corridor to reach subspace antenna: <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2712/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> The second ladder was scraped and is now a stairway, the first ladder is only decoration If you reach Power blocks, you will notice that the two backup generatos are now in the middle of the room, not on the wall and that the passage to the lower section runs along them. The room is also much better lit: <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2714/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Also much lighting around Generator hive has been reworked to give it an more alienlike feel.
We also have a new vent connecting the area above Y junction with the broken lift next to Datanode, to allow the aliens to catch marines here: <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2804/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The architecture of Datanode has been revised to remove a siegespot from here, its also now a little more marine friendly, but there is also a new vent: <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2720/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The new main shaft alpha has now a little corner, to cut the LoF and r_speeds in half, its also has now deeply wanted grates on the floor, hf <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2805/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Additionally to these balancing and layout changes, i have also finished the background sound of the map, making it feel much more alive.
I hope the current layout will be the final one, since i really like it gameplay and visualwise, but well see what you think about it. The only cosmetic changes that are still on my to-do list are a proper skybox, as always and some nifty screen textures for the screens conviently placed throughout the map. So if you can produce anything fitting, go right ahead.
But now to what you all have been waiting for, the download: Link removed The download comes as usually with a resfile, for easy serversetup and all previous post have been changed accordingly.
<!--QuoteBegin-Pithlit+Apr 14 2005, 12:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pithlit @ Apr 14 2005, 12:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i dont get what your code means, but i keep flat floors and ceilings because of: faces, wpolys, clipnodes and playablitly
edit: oh, forgot authenticity (spelling?), mankind never mady anything impressive with ceilings and floors <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> carioca likes it when doorframes break up the floor and the ceiling. and I agree with him. if you follow this "break rule" your map will look more "expensive".
you want an "authentic" map though? why are there useless columns and huge rooms without a recognizeable sense behind it? when we are talking about ns maps we are talking about design. AMAZING design. the word "authentic" doesnt belong here.
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> since phonix you improve alot go away from flat rooms for soemthing more ns but is lessing function.
you could replace your box with this small tip: imagine what is inside of that box after some time and crazy ideas you will find something to place over instead of a ugly big box.
another stuff i learn in the hard ways is trade flat with amaze variation textures for pipes this could do more and less world polies than cut your wall 7 times to place monitors or lights, and some nice pipe hangs with light atach it will bring a cool light like sava or source, sava use a internal light but source use a external light, but if you wana keep your light fine but inlucde some pipes or cables like nothing, square box conecting every where, is most interesting to see something fresh but you keep at make massive changes than put some details. try get bspviewer and se the classic ns maps brush work holding your mouse buton and play around in the basic shape map with out textures you can see where ppl make function walls to save world polies and much more.
try use this tool (bspviewer)with your map to see where the compiler are cuting the places and try put hint brushes to see if he cut more closer if note replace or remove the hint brush i aways trying this,remenber hint brushes doesnt block vis.
edited: after play your map i see some nice stufff and a good feeling small places over 800 polies much better than my combat map reach near 1200 polies.
and for that slope up door you could vertex and slice a bit like image below ^^ =D
Well, here is beta 21 for you. This version brings not much changes, but some very nice ones as i think: -the vent system was completly revised and all vents are now far enough to let skulks pass each other -small changes in Generator -hives renamed to be more Original: hives are now: Sewer, Observation lounge and Power blocks -lighting tweaked -a new fully fledged readyroom, wich i like very much, i have to say, the old one sucked hard.
And here are some screens for you: The new Overview <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2709/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> The udated Minimap <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2710/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> The new vents from the outside (as an example generator) <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2836/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> And from the inside <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2837/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
well and heres teh new download link for this version (including resfile) *link removed*
This version should be the last one with gameplay relevant changes, all future releases will be only minor updates and will only have artistic value. Saying this i will get straight to work with: -ridges around doors -adding detail where r_speeds allow it -grates, ect -texture and lighting optimization
Saying this i´m still needing two things from the community to make the map perfect: 1. A proper skybox 2. Nice additive textures for the display screens throughout the map (i used the ones from veil, but am not allowed if the map should become official)
This is your chance to get your work into a map! I will bump, respective create the threads in the artwork forum! Please have a look at it.
Well, three minor bugs were found in the last version. I´ll post them here so you don´t have to doublereport them. IF yiu find anything else, just PM me and i will add them to the list:
-one grate on the ceiling of the lower generator area not fun_illusionary -lights in Chemical waste storage not in func_seethrough, thus buildable upon -lights in marinestart not within func_illusionary
well, it was loaded onto the g4b2s server, and I played a round at 4v4-5v5.
My feeling is that quite a bit of it seems... oversized. Alot of the hallways are at least 2 rines high, and quite wide to boot. It made shooting skulks pretty easy, but provided the fade with tons of room to work with.
The other thing was that it felt pretty angular. Not exactly sure what causes it, maybe the fact there's very little breaking up large, flat, surfaces. Particularly hallways again. There's some stuff, but it doesn't do much to dispell the notion I'm walking in a box.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kobayashi+May 17 2005, 07:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kobayashi @ May 17 2005, 07:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My feeling is that quite a bit of it seems... oversized. Alot of the hallways are at least 2 rines high, and quite wide to boot. It made shooting skulks pretty easy, but provided the fade with tons of room to work with. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> how do you want to know? even if: a hallway that is EXACTLY "2 marines high" (ergo the high of 2 playerstarts) appears TOO LOW ingame! EVER!
but I agree with the breaking up of flat surfaces. thats one of the main reason why this map looks bad in some areas although the lighting is quite good.
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Pithlit turn you zip file the path in sub directories from ns or the ns folder because your root folder at the zip be ns_prometheus_versionx inst good i have aways to get in the folder select the files and then drop to ns folder.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My feeling is that quite a bit of it seems... oversized. Alot of the hallways are at least 2 rines high, and quite wide to boot. It made shooting skulks pretty easy, but provided the fade with tons of room to work with.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Strangely enough the same critique from the PT's when they played it.
Now the question is how to address some of the "it's too large" criticisms..
I really can´t understnad, why some people consider the map as "too large". Sure, its no combat map and its not tanith, where you are all over the map in less than 20 seconds. I created the map intentionally this large. The origin of prometheus, my scraped map phenix was planned even larger as can be seen here: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-4-1094035402.jpg' target='_blank'>Link to image</a> the walk times to each hive were over a minute and i liked it. (sadly hammer didn´t <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->) and since then i made the map smaller from version to version, reducing this times and cramping the rooms together. Is 40 seconds to the farest hive really to much? Even ayumi is that large and its regularly played and most people enjoy rounds on that map!
Why? Because ns is not only about hives, sieging and spawncamping, but mapcontrol. And how can you fight over some area properly if it is directly in the influence zone of one teams base/spawn? Not properly i would say. As an example i would give you hl mods like DoD. where you have capture the flag maps where the last stand is directly next to the spawn. The rounds are only won by sneaky people, but not by actual combat and thus being not fun for most fps players.
Combat solved that problem, since its well... combat all the time. But in ns you need control over area to get somewhere and if this can´t be archieved rounds are most times soon over and not much fun. Thats why i´m an advocate of larger maps, since the team currently falling back has more changes to come back eventually if it pulls itself together.. Something you can´t do if the the enemy can walk directly into you spawn after you died once or twice.
I have to say, i had some really great battles with teams of 6vs6 to 8v8 on large maps like prometheus or ayumi, and have seen many times aliens still come back from one hive, while the marines had an HA train running. (assuming that both teams knew the map at least a little and aliens did not needless waste res in oc spam wich saddly happens a lot on custom maps <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->) Or marines sneaking a phase inside a hive and trying to take it down, while tha base is under attack, a move that fails on small maps, since lerks and fades are back in mere seconds, before you could´ve done substantial damage.
Usually these rounds end with the ultimate victory of the already succeeeding team, but the fights they produced were worthwhile, fun and made the rounds rememberable.
Also larger maps allow both teams to be more diverse in their strategies because there are more ways to get to your goal. Being triggerhappy and having a good aim, is not sufficient if there are multiple chokepoints you have to hold, you have to think strategically (something many current ns players sadly lack these days) and maybe even loose some territory while you are making a push, because someone sneaked around your defenses.
Of course are larger maps harder to learn for new players and sometimes confusing, because of all of the unknown ways, vents and locations, but eventually you will master it (with help of a named minimap or continous play)
As a last statement i have to say, large maps incorporate the spirit of ns more, and are usually more fun to play, since they produce longer more rememberable rounds!
Edit: I might have emailed it. I can't really remember <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> i make a walk at your map again and notice they change alot, you include tons of details lights and remake all the hallways vents, everything is diferent good.
i dont found any trouble with your r_speds. i like the songs lights. i'm not the best lover from yell grey but you use that very nicely.
i start see a realease candidate(rc) in your map.
i found some places could change if you wanna.
the only trouble is the y junction where that ladder the onos cant pass with out crouch to go up/down with/out the ladder.
your ladder have a strange bock in the way maybe you have to fit the size of the func_ladder with the size of the ladder and dont include a func ladder over the ladder at the top part.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> some notes and screenies the yellow corner you could pull this in the wall <a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nsprometheusb2000007wb.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/6031/nsprometheusb2000007wb.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
make a gap for skulkies pass relocting those pipes <a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nsprometheusb2100004ai.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/8439/nsprometheusb2100004ai.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
if you extend the texture placement from the walls to iner light will be good. <a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nsprometheusb2100028gi.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/6812/nsprometheusb2100028gi.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
the circle show the elevator controsl relocate it up and double it at outside at boton part. the square part show the piece of brsuh you could incorporate at the upper platform.
here the onos looking at the most hard part of the map crouch to go up/down with/out ladder and when you walikin in direction to all your map ladder they look stuck block you like you trying up the ladder or trying use the ladder to goes down. <a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nsprometheusb2100164pn.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/3563/nsprometheusb2100164pn.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
you could vertex thsi edge to fit with the near pipes. <a href='http://img279.echo.cx/my.php?image=nsprometheusb2100088sp.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img279.echo.cx/img279/4118/nsprometheusb2100088sp.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
okay. when I said oversized, I meant that the rooms themselves seemed large. Almost as if every room was a cargo bay. The run time to hives and such aren't a problem, it's the dimensions of hallways and rooms.
I think you used teh base 256x256 wall textures and made all the walls that high. That's at least 2 onos high, which means fades and jetpacks will have a really easy time, and good rines can hit skulks very easily.
You can have some large areas, but when many of the hallways are also that large, it runs into problems.
ok, all the mapping work for the next version has been done, sone ares grphically improved, some playability wise. All in all some nice changes in my eyes. Maybe i´ll update the post with some screens if i feel like it. Now im just waiting for some artwork by Tycho and Breakthrough for the next version (wich should be *non* final)
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now im just waiting for some artwork by Tycho and Breakthrough for the next version (wich should be final)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd avoid using the word final ever when talking about maps, there always seems to be something else to be done <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well, well, well, since the textures and the new skybox still need their time to complete, but all other gameplay related changes are already finished and ready for a review i decided to make a new compile. This Version features mostly subtle changes since there weren´t and new layout features. These subtle changes include: -extensive clipboxing of all critical stuck inducing areas for a better game experience -better texturing around panels and lights for better appearance/integration -some lighing tweaks, including eliminating all not wanted completly dark spots and including some more athmospheric effects -A reworked version of Chemical waste storage.
Here´s some screens for you: <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2709/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> layout, nothing new to spot, i guess. Only minor adjustments in some corners for better appearance gameplay, maybe you´ll find these spots ^^
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2725/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> CWS was damaged during the last playtest phase <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> and currently there is no repaircrew availiable to fix the damage <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2837/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> another shot
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2718/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> nice new scrolling texture in Nanogrid, expect similar ones for the other screens from Breakthrough for the next version.
And finally the Download link: <span style='color:orange'>new link:</span> *removed* now with fixed folders for easy install and as always with a proper resfile for easy serversetup
Have phun!
Update(10/7/05) The *.bsp in the newest versions zip has the wrong name. it is called ns_prometheus16.bsp not ns_prometheus_b22.bsp this leads to problems with server setups and the minimap.
Sadly since my computers breakdown i have no ftp access and sadly can not change that at the moment. So if you download the version you have to change the name manually to fit with the other files. Sorry for your inconvinience!
I have updated the download link since the old version had a serious compile bug. If you downloaded the other version wich was online <span style='color:red'>before</span> this post, please delete it and replace it by the version posted in my sig or in the post above!
Thanks to the people who pointed the bug out to me!
Wow, i had a close call last week. Total hard-drive failure one ram burned out, ect. Computer got completly wasted i lost all my data and had to replace some components ~there goes my money for an X800 <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But the good news is: I had saved Prometheus to a CD !!!2hours!!! before this happened. I had the thought: just in case, y´know and then bam i was so happy and starteld that i cried
So i just wanted to let you know that im back online and will shortly begin working on the map again. Any feedback send to my mail address has to be sent again, since everything was lost.
BreakthroughTexture Artist (ns_prometheus)Join Date: 2005-03-27Member: 46620Members, Constellation
I'm sorry to hear that Pithlit, but I'm glad that you saved the map <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It's really coming along nicely, keep up the good work <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I just heard that the *.bsp in the newest versions zip has the wrong name. it is called ns_prometheus16.bsp not ns_prometheus_b22.bsp this leads to problems with server setups and the minimap.
Sadly since my computers breakdown i have no ftp access and sadly can not change that at the moment. So if you download the version you have to change the name manually to fit with the other files. Sorry for your inconvinience!
Hi Guys, i was finally able to finish version b23, the best one in my eyes, yet. Many thanks to both <b>Breakthrough</b> for the Textures and the cool Sig he made for me and <b>TychoCelchuuu</b> for his fantastic work on the skybox.
This new version should give you a unique and pleasurable gaming experiences. I spent quite some hours on retexturing stuff and adding details to the map, where r_speeds would allow it.
Gameplay wise the Resnode @ secondary datanode was removed to break early alien dominance when the Observation Lounge hive was main.
In the other news: i have updated all screenshots to the new version. Most are in the first post, but additional can be found at my maps site on <a href='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/Map.php?UniqueID=530' target='_blank'>NS World</a> so please visit there if you want to have a look at them right now i just want to hive you 2 nice impressions <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2723/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2855/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> of all the nice looking areas of prometheus
This new version is hosted as always by my good friend <b>Kardoffel</b>, many thanks to him, too
I really hope you have as much fun playing the map as i had making it! <a href='http://home.arcor.de/kingurmel/ns_prometheus_b23.zip' target='_blank'>ns_prometheus_b23 ~2.3mb</a>
This version comes as the other ones with a .res file for easy server setup
Comments
try this:
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
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| / \ |
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| \ ____ / |
|--/ \--|
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
edit: oh, forgot authenticity (spelling?), mankind never mady anything impressive with ceilings and floors <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i played co_phoniex and look too mcuh with prometeus and rember to bump this to ask your map will go alpha or make the changes you planing to show up more 1 beta?
I got the R-speeds in every area now under control and below the official limit, i reworked areas to include more detail, but keeping the r_speeds.
Layout was changed again, and should now be balanced, good.
I includet now finally the sounds i wanted in the map, to make it more lifelike (i hate to run around in a silent map), before thsi there was only the sound of the steam and waterdrops <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->, now there is much more athmosphere.
Well, you can see, quite a major thing, im currently up to some tweaking and clipping for smother gameplay, i guess you can expect that beta/final in one or two days
Bt without further delay i will go on to the updates:
First an overview and minimap update, so you can see what i am talking about:
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2709/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2710/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
here are the main layout changes:
-a new weldabe vent connecting powerblocks and nanogrid control
-a new weldable vent connecting Command hive and Seondary Datanode
-shortcut to delta juction must be welded open, now
-Rt Sattelite uplink is now closer to ms, also is the elevation now downwards towards that rt
-marines have now to cross through Subspace antenna to reach Power blocks
-Power blocks is effectively cut into two rooms
- main shaft alpha revised
The new marinestart is now better lit and good defendable from alien attacks, clipping problems solved:
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2786/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Marines have now to go along this corridor to reach subspace antenna:
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2712/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The second ladder was scraped and is now a stairway, the first ladder is only decoration
If you reach Power blocks, you will notice that the two backup generatos are now in the middle of the room, not on the wall and that the passage to the lower section runs along them. The room is also much better lit:
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2714/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Also much lighting around Generator hive has been reworked to give it an more alienlike feel.
We also have a new vent connecting the area above Y junction with the broken lift next to Datanode, to allow the aliens to catch marines here:
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2804/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The architecture of Datanode has been revised to remove a siegespot from here, its also now a little more marine friendly, but there is also a new vent:
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2720/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The new main shaft alpha has now a little corner, to cut the LoF and r_speeds in half, its also has now deeply wanted grates on the floor, hf <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2805/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Additionally to these balancing and layout changes, i have also finished the background sound of the map, making it feel much more alive.
I hope the current layout will be the final one, since i really like it gameplay and visualwise, but well see what you think about it.
The only cosmetic changes that are still on my to-do list are a proper skybox, as always and some nifty screen textures for the screens conviently placed throughout the map.
So if you can produce anything fitting, go right ahead.
But now to what you all have been waiting for, the download:
Link removed
The download comes as usually with a resfile, for easy serversetup and all previous post have been changed accordingly.
So please test the map and critizise!
edit: oh, forgot authenticity (spelling?), mankind never mady anything impressive with ceilings and floors <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
carioca likes it when doorframes break up the floor and the ceiling. and I agree with him. if you follow this "break rule" your map will look more "expensive".
you want an "authentic" map though? why are there useless columns and huge rooms without a recognizeable sense behind it? when we are talking about ns maps we are talking about design. AMAZING design. the word "authentic" doesnt belong here.
you could replace your box with this small tip:
imagine what is inside of that box after some time and crazy ideas you will find something to place over instead of a ugly big box.
another stuff i learn in the hard ways is trade flat with amaze variation textures for pipes this could do more and less world polies than cut your wall 7 times to place monitors or lights, and some nice pipe hangs with light atach it will bring a cool light like sava or source, sava use a internal light but source use a external light, but if you wana keep your light fine but inlucde some pipes or cables like nothing, square box conecting every where, is most interesting to see something fresh but you keep at make massive changes than put some details.
try get bspviewer and se the classic ns maps brush work holding your mouse buton and play around in the basic shape map with out textures you can see where ppl make function walls to save world polies and much more.
try use this tool (bspviewer)with your map to see where the compiler are cuting the places and try put hint brushes to see if he cut more closer if note replace or remove the hint brush i aways trying this,remenber hint brushes doesnt block vis.
edited:
after play your map i see some nice stufff and a good feeling small places over 800 polies much better than my combat map reach near 1200 polies.
and for that slope up door you could vertex and slice a bit like image below ^^ =D
This version brings not much changes, but some very nice ones as i think:
-the vent system was completly revised and all vents are now far enough to let skulks pass each other
-small changes in Generator
-hives renamed to be more Original: hives are now: Sewer, Observation lounge and Power blocks
-lighting tweaked
-a new fully fledged readyroom, wich i like very much, i have to say, the old one sucked hard.
And here are some screens for you:
The new Overview
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2709/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The udated Minimap
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2710/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The new vents from the outside (as an example generator)
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2836/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
And from the inside
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2837/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
well and heres teh new download link for this version (including resfile)
*link removed*
This version should be the last one with gameplay relevant changes, all future releases will be only minor updates and will only have artistic value.
Saying this i will get straight to work with:
-ridges around doors
-adding detail where r_speeds allow it
-grates, ect
-texture and lighting optimization
Saying this i´m still needing two things from the community to make the map perfect:
1. A proper skybox
2. Nice additive textures for the display screens throughout the map
(i used the ones from veil, but am not allowed if the map should become official)
This is your chance to get your work into a map!
I will bump, respective create the threads in the artwork forum!
Please have a look at it.
-one grate on the ceiling of the lower generator area not fun_illusionary
-lights in Chemical waste storage not in func_seethrough, thus buildable upon
-lights in marinestart not within func_illusionary
My feeling is that quite a bit of it seems... oversized. Alot of the hallways are at least 2 rines high, and quite wide to boot. It made shooting skulks pretty easy, but provided the fade with tons of room to work with.
The other thing was that it felt pretty angular. Not exactly sure what causes it, maybe the fact there's very little breaking up large, flat, surfaces. Particularly hallways again. There's some stuff, but it doesn't do much to dispell the notion I'm walking in a box.
how do you want to know? even if: a hallway that is EXACTLY "2 marines high" (ergo the high of 2 playerstarts) appears TOO LOW ingame! EVER!
but I agree with the breaking up of flat surfaces. thats one of the main reason why this map looks bad in some areas although the lighting is quite good.
Pithlit
turn you zip file the path in sub directories from ns or the ns folder because your root folder at the zip be ns_prometheus_versionx inst good i have aways to get in the folder select the files and then drop to ns folder.
Strangely enough the same critique from the PT's when they played it.
Now the question is how to address some of the "it's too large" criticisms..
Sure, its no combat map and its not tanith, where you are all over the map in less than 20 seconds.
I created the map intentionally this large.
The origin of prometheus, my scraped map phenix was planned even larger as can be seen here:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-4-1094035402.jpg' target='_blank'>Link to image</a>
the walk times to each hive were over a minute and i liked it. (sadly hammer didn´t <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
and since then i made the map smaller from version to version, reducing this times and cramping the rooms together.
Is 40 seconds to the farest hive really to much? Even ayumi is that large and its regularly played and most people enjoy rounds on that map!
Why?
Because ns is not only about hives, sieging and spawncamping, but mapcontrol.
And how can you fight over some area properly if it is directly in the influence zone of one teams base/spawn?
Not properly i would say.
As an example i would give you hl mods like DoD. where you have capture the flag maps where the last stand is directly next to the spawn.
The rounds are only won by sneaky people, but not by actual combat and thus being not fun for most fps players.
Combat solved that problem, since its well... combat all the time.
But in ns you need control over area to get somewhere and if this can´t be archieved rounds are most times soon over and not much fun.
Thats why i´m an advocate of larger maps, since the team currently falling back has more changes to come back eventually if it pulls itself together..
Something you can´t do if the the enemy can walk directly into you spawn after you died once or twice.
I have to say, i had some really great battles with teams of 6vs6 to 8v8 on large maps like prometheus or ayumi, and have seen many times aliens still come back from one hive, while the marines had an HA train running. (assuming that both teams knew the map at least a little and aliens did not needless waste res in oc spam wich saddly happens a lot on custom maps <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
Or marines sneaking a phase inside a hive and trying to take it down, while tha base is under attack, a move that fails on small maps, since lerks and fades are back in mere seconds, before you could´ve done substantial damage.
Usually these rounds end with the ultimate victory of the already succeeeding team, but the fights they produced were worthwhile, fun and made the rounds rememberable.
Also larger maps allow both teams to be more diverse in their strategies because there are more ways to get to your goal.
Being triggerhappy and having a good aim, is not sufficient if there are multiple chokepoints you have to hold, you have to think strategically (something many current ns players sadly lack these days) and maybe even loose some territory while you are making a push, because someone sneaked around your defenses.
Of course are larger maps harder to learn for new players and sometimes confusing, because of all of the unknown ways, vents and locations, but eventually you will master it (with help of a named minimap or continous play)
As a last statement i have to say, large maps incorporate the spirit of ns more, and are usually more fun to play, since they produce longer more rememberable rounds!
Edit: I might have emailed it. I can't really remember <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i make a walk at your map again and notice they change alot, you include tons of details lights and remake all the hallways vents, everything is diferent good.
i dont found any trouble with your r_speds.
i like the songs lights.
i'm not the best lover from yell grey but you use that very nicely.
i start see a realease candidate(rc) in your map.
i found some places could change if you wanna.
the only trouble is the y junction where that ladder the onos cant pass with out crouch to go up/down with/out the ladder.
your ladder have a strange bock in the way maybe you have to fit the size of the func_ladder with the size of the ladder and dont include a func ladder over the ladder at the top part.
some notes and screenies
the yellow corner you could pull this in the wall
<a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nsprometheusb2000007wb.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/6031/nsprometheusb2000007wb.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
make a gap for skulkies pass relocting those pipes
<a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nsprometheusb2100004ai.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/8439/nsprometheusb2100004ai.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
if you extend the texture placement from the walls to iner light will be good.
<a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nsprometheusb2100028gi.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/6812/nsprometheusb2100028gi.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
the circle show the elevator controsl relocate it up and double it at outside at boton part.
the square part show the piece of brsuh you could incorporate at the upper platform.
<a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nsprometheusb2100045oq.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/4805/nsprometheusb2100045oq.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a><a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nsprometheusb2100057yd.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/2895/nsprometheusb2100057yd.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
here the onos looking at the most hard part of the map crouch to go up/down with/out ladder and when you walikin in direction to all your map ladder they look stuck block you like you trying up the ladder or trying use the ladder to goes down.
<a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nsprometheusb2100164pn.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/3563/nsprometheusb2100164pn.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
you could vertex thsi edge to fit with the near pipes.
<a href='http://img279.echo.cx/my.php?image=nsprometheusb2100088sp.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img279.echo.cx/img279/4118/nsprometheusb2100088sp.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
anything else?
Otherwise i´ll wait for the skybox until i make the next release.
I think you used teh base 256x256 wall textures and made all the walls that high. That's at least 2 onos high, which means fades and jetpacks will have a really easy time, and good rines can hit skulks very easily.
You can have some large areas, but when many of the hallways are also that large, it runs into problems.
All in all some nice changes in my eyes.
Maybe i´ll update the post with some screens if i feel like it.
Now im just waiting for some artwork by Tycho and Breakthrough for the next version (wich should be *non* final)
I'd avoid using the word final ever when talking about maps, there always seems to be something else to be done <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
since the textures and the new skybox still need their time to complete, but all other gameplay related changes are already finished and ready for a review i decided to make a new compile.
This Version features mostly subtle changes since there weren´t and new layout features.
These subtle changes include:
-extensive clipboxing of all critical stuck inducing areas for a better game experience
-better texturing around panels and lights for better appearance/integration
-some lighing tweaks, including eliminating all not wanted completly dark spots and including some more athmospheric effects
-A reworked version of Chemical waste storage.
Here´s some screens for you:
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2709/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
layout, nothing new to spot, i guess. Only minor adjustments in some corners for better appearance gameplay, maybe you´ll find these spots ^^
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2725/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
CWS was damaged during the last playtest phase <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> and currently there is no repaircrew availiable to fix the damage
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2837/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
another shot
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2718/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
nice new scrolling texture in Nanogrid, expect similar ones for the other screens from Breakthrough for the next version.
And finally the Download link:
<span style='color:orange'>new link:</span> *removed*
now with fixed folders for easy install and as always with a proper resfile for easy serversetup
Have phun!
Update(10/7/05)
The *.bsp in the newest versions zip has the wrong name.
it is called ns_prometheus16.bsp not ns_prometheus_b22.bsp this leads to problems with server setups and the minimap.
Sadly since my computers breakdown i have no ftp access and sadly can not change that at the moment.
So if you download the version you have to change the name manually to fit with the other files.
Sorry for your inconvinience!
If you downloaded the other version wich was online <span style='color:red'>before</span> this post, please delete it and replace it by the version posted in my sig or in the post above!
Thanks to the people who pointed the bug out to me!
Total hard-drive failure one ram burned out, ect.
Computer got completly wasted i lost all my data and had to replace some components
~there goes my money for an X800 <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But the good news is:
I had saved Prometheus to a CD !!!2hours!!! before this happened.
I had the thought: just in case, y´know
and then bam
i was so happy and starteld that i cried
So i just wanted to let you know that im back online and will shortly begin working on the map again.
Any feedback send to my mail address has to be sent again, since everything was lost.
It's really coming along nicely, keep up the good work <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
it is called ns_prometheus16.bsp not ns_prometheus_b22.bsp this leads to problems with server setups and the minimap.
Sadly since my computers breakdown i have no ftp access and sadly can not change that at the moment.
So if you download the version you have to change the name manually to fit with the other files.
Sorry for your inconvinience!
i was finally able to finish version b23, the best one in my eyes, yet.
Many thanks to both <b>Breakthrough</b> for the Textures and the cool Sig he made for me and <b>TychoCelchuuu</b> for his fantastic work on the skybox.
This new version should give you a unique and pleasurable gaming experiences.
I spent quite some hours on retexturing stuff and adding details to the map, where r_speeds would allow it.
Gameplay wise the Resnode @ secondary datanode was removed to break early alien dominance when the Observation Lounge hive was main.
In the other news:
i have updated all screenshots to the new version. Most are in the first post, but additional can be found at my maps site on <a href='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/Map.php?UniqueID=530' target='_blank'>NS World</a>
so please visit there if you want to have a look at them
right now i just want to hive you 2 nice impressions
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2723/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2855/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
of all the nice looking areas of prometheus
This new version is hosted as always by my good friend <b>Kardoffel</b>, many thanks to him, too
I really hope you have as much fun playing the map as i had making it!
<a href='http://home.arcor.de/kingurmel/ns_prometheus_b23.zip' target='_blank'>ns_prometheus_b23 ~2.3mb</a>
This version comes as the other ones with a .res file for easy server setup
Enjoy!