What Use Are Decency Laws?

moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva.Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
edited November 2004 in Discussions
I just read this.

So lets see. In recent history, the FCC has kicked Howard Stern off FM radio, fined several companies $500,000 over a nipple, chastised Bono over saying "f**king Brilliant" about a performance that deserved the accolade, and now network stations are scared to air Saving Private Ryan on Veteran's Day.

This is rediculous.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • illuminexilluminex Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-03-13 Member: 27317Posts: 784
    The majority of states (and people) in the United States feel that Decency Laws are good, as shown by the last election.

    They're quite useful: I don't get to see some huuuuge lady with almost no clothes cursing at the top of her lungs at her three children at work. Well, that happens somewhat anyways, but the laws make sure she curses less and has to wear a little more clothes. biggrin-fix.gif
  • SkulkBaitSkulkBait Members Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13423Posts: 2,543
    edited November 2004
    QUOTE (illuminex @ Nov 14 2004, 12:04 PM)
    The majority of states (and people) in the United States feel that Decency Laws are good, as shown by the last election.

    I don't see what this election had to do with decency laws. Even if you construe that to include homosexual marriage both candidates were against it.

    Anyways, on topic, I think such things are more or less outdated. They are most certainly taken WAY to seriously. Its one of America's many hipocracies: Bad words: no, Nudity: no, Sexuality: no, Violence: hell yes, Dangerous weapons: you'd better believe it! Mirijuana: no, Booze: DEAR GOD YES!
    1.04ever
  • CyndaneCyndane Members Join Date: 2003-11-15 Member: 22913Posts: 3,010 Advanced user
    edited November 2004
    I would be inclined to intially agree, however there are should be some restrictions. Then there are those that take it far too far.

    Example:

    Here in South Dakota, there is a small town called Salem. Outside of town, about 10 to 15 miles, there is a gentlemen's club. Obviously, if you don't know what a gentlemen's club is skip to the end of this post. Since that club has been opened the town of Salem has tried to shut it down for simply allowing nude women to dance and allowing people only 18 to enter. (They do NOT serve alcholol.)
    In June of this year, they decided to hold a random county vote on an ordinance. The ordinance passed, since the majority in the county are your typical close minded republicans. In addition, no one outside of the county could participate in the election. Which left it to about 1,500 people to decide. Subtract about 200 or so for the children who are not old enough and you have around 1,300 adults, subtract another 200 or so, and you have the ones who voted against the ordinance. (edit) (Voter turn out was a record 98%) However, since it did pass they banned nudity, in all places except where it was normally expected. This is where it gets amusing. Right.. back to the topic.

    Locker rooms, Theatres, Doctor's office, and swimming pools are where they allowed nudity to take place because it was "common place". Yes, you read that right, they banned nudity in your own home. Hehe.

    Right anyway, so the gentlemen's club shut down, then about two weeks later it re-opened, "What? How did it do that?". It was an ingenious idea, they added six big screen televisions, and show independant films, thus labeling them as a theatre. In addition to having women dance as extra entertainment. No, they do not show pron movies. Just the ones that are not normally released in the larger theatres around here. I actually went to see one, it was quite good.
    Anyway, in conclusion, they county now has to wait a full year, so next June, before they can vote again to chance the ordinance, yet if they ban nudity in theatres, then they have to shut down the ONLY theatre in the county aside from the gentlemen's club.

    That folks is why some of the deceny laws really are bad, for everyone.

    Oh, on a side note, down in the town of Vermillion, if you swear in front of a girl, child, or baby you are fined, yes FINED, $250 dollars. In addition to be being listed as a misdemeanor. lol :-)

    Just thought I would share these amusing stories with you all.

    (edit) (Holy long post batman) :-) (Refined paragraphs to make it easier to read)
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  • SpoogeSpooge Thunderbolt missile in your cheerios Members Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 67Posts: 1,531 Fully active user
    As usually happens when various groups try to ban games that present graphic violence or language, it has nothing to do with what happens in your home; that can be controlled, "Just turn it off" as we all like to say. What these people want, and apparently that includes Michael Powel, is to "protect" other peoples children. It's always the proverbial "what if they're in a house where adults don't monitor the television viewing?"
    The answer, of course, is lock your kids up in a closet and don't let them out till they're 18.

    There is an extremely fine line between squashing freedoms and preventing unlawful decadence.

    It's time for the FCC to get an overhaul. And these laws that attempt to fine affiliate stations for broadcasting national programs is reminiscant of the robber barons. Let the public decide with it's viewing (or lack of) and complaints to advertisers. That usually gets the attention of broadcasters long before the government ever has to.
  • booogerboooger Members Join Date: 2003-11-03 Member: 22274Posts: 223
    I say we take to the UK for decency laws - they show and say nearly everything over there, and last I checked, their children weren't traumatized because of it. All these attempts to impose a set standard for decency seem rather chivalrous if you ask me.
    Gedran reveals his head from the shadows and begins to unzip his pantaloons. Gedran removes his Dwarven Hand Cannon and begins to stroke the barrel ever so slowly. Gedran lets out a quiet gasp as the cannon begins to expand in his hand. Artemisa growls menacingly at you. Inotep growls “…You need to leave…” Gedran trys to disguise himself as a tree and makes crow noises.
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    This may even need to be a topic all of its own, but here's something I really don't understand.
    Why do we feel as a culture that seeing nude people is harmful to children? So much hell was raised over Janet Jackson's nipple. Most babies see nipples from the day they are born, and it doesn't seem to have any adverse effects . . .

    I'd speculate that a hell of a lot of eating disorders are the result of us not seeing nude people all the time. If we all saw on a regular basis how real people look naked, I suspect we wouldn't have such inflated standards for what makes someone attractive.
  • FaskaliaFaskalia Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Posts: 2,405
    It is even worse, most babies suck nipples from the day they are born.

    Well i was always curious wheter the US is really that prude, but it seems so.

    Can anyone answer the following question: Why does a land that is obviously against nudity has the biggest porn industrie in the world, as well as the most sold porn-movies per person?
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    You can mince it anyway you like, but if a government can take it a way then it doesn't really matter if it is a right or a privilege, does it?
  • Marine0IMarine0I Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8639Posts: 1,870
    edited November 2004
    QUOTE (moultano @ Nov 15 2004, 07:07 AM)
    This may even need to be a topic all of its own, but here's something I really don't understand.
    Why do we feel as a culture that seeing nude people is harmful to children? So much hell was raised over Janet Jackson's nipple. Most babies see nipples from the day they are born, and it doesn't seem to have any adverse effects . . .

    I'd speculate that a hell of a lot of eating disorders are the result of us not seeing nude people all the time. If we all saw on a regular basis how real people look naked, I suspect we wouldn't have such inflated standards for what makes someone attractive.

    One word - sexual context. A guy ripping another womans clothes and exposing her breast comes under the category of erotica - it should not be done on national television during a sporting match. Lots of kids watch sports.

    A young boy who was breast fed when he was little has seen a breast before. He has a ****, so he's seen that before. However, watching his parents go at it in the shower is .... more than the sum of its biological parts. That's why I have no problem with the statue David but hate Stern and his animal friends.

    Spooge - I dont follow the video game line of reasoning. Games must be purchased and brought back to the home, then played on a PC or xbox/ps2 etc - thats a lot difference to fiddling with the dial on your radio and having oversexed maniacs trying to convince people to hump wherever they can get away with it in public.

    QUOTE
    Its one of America's many hipocracies: Bad words: no, Nudity: no, Sexuality: no, Violence: hell yes, Dangerous weapons: you'd better believe it! Mirijuana: no, Booze: DEAR GOD YES!


    It is a hypocracy - I'd like to take all the yes's and end them (save dangerous weapons), while you'd simply like to reverse the hypocracy to yes, yes,yes, some, no, yes, yes
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    edited November 2004
    QUOTE (Marine01 @ Nov 14 2004, 06:38 PM)
    One word - sexual context.

    First of all, I have to chuckle at this. tounge.gif

    QUOTE
    A guy ripping another womans clothes and exposing her breast comes under the category of erotica - it should not be done on national television during a sporting match. Lots of kids watch sports.

    The content was sexual, overwhelmingly so, whether you saw her nipple or not. If you want to take sex out of primetime television you've got a hell of a lot of work to do.

    Personally, I don't have any problem with sexual content. However, if that is the nature of your issue, why does seeing a nipple warrant a fine of a half a million while the entire rest of the act is perfectly acceptable? The FCCs problem is the nipple, not the sex. That's what's retarded about it.
  • The_FinchThe_Finch Members Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8498Posts: 661
    I dislike decency laws because they're basically "parent" laws as far as entertainment is concerned. We can't show breasts because they're naughty! We can't show violent behavior, unless it's on the news, because then it's a ratings bonanza that keeps CNN and Fox News in business!

    Most laws governing entertainment content is basically a bandage for inadequate parenting and no common sense. If you don't want to see violent television, maybe the D-Day scene in Saving Private Ryan is something you should change the channel for. Virtually every television has a remote now, so it's not like you're placing a terrible burden on the viewer.

    There's clearly a difference between showing a breast accidentally and airing Hot Anal Sluts Vol. IX. Let people regulate what they watch. If shows are really offensive, people will stop watching. But people like offensive shows. That's why Jackass and Viva La Bam are so popular. You can call Howard Stern immoral all you like, but millions of people love his show. If you don't like it, don't listen to it.
    QUOTE (X Stickman)
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  • TimmythemoonpigTimmythemoonpig Members Join Date: 2003-11-08 Member: 22407Posts: 99
    QUOTE
    We can't show violent behavior, unless it's on the news, because then it's a ratings bonanza that keeps CNN and Fox News in business


    Yeah we get to see 'action' violence on the news, not real war violence. We have a watershed on tv here, after 9:30 in the evening anything goes, except hardcore porn.
  • X_StickmanX_Stickman Not good enough for a custom title. Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15533Posts: 3,567 Advanced user
    I've always thought that if you just completely got rid of censorship laws/rules, in a few generations, no one would be offended by it.

    Why is the four letter word beginning with F so naughty? Because we're told it is. Why do children want to say it? Because they're told not to. If no one has a problem with it, if it's not "one of those words", then there'd be no reason to use it in the first place (or at least, no taboo associated with using it), so no one would be offended.

    Unfortunately, it's not likely to happen. I'm talking about bad language here, btw. Not violence. I don't want the Teletubbies getting into firefights with rival gangs and limbs flying everywhere on childrens TV (although i want to see the teletubbies DIE!) i just think that if there was no censorship for "bad" language, in a few generations, "bad" language wouldn't even exist (after all, you only take offence to it because you've been told it's offensive since day one, if you weren't told, you wouldn't be offended by it, it's just a word).
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  • SkulkBaitSkulkBait Members Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13423Posts: 2,543
    QUOTE
    Unfortunately, it's not likely to happen. I'm talking about bad language here, btw. Not violence. I don't want the Teletubbies getting into firefights with rival gangs and limbs flying everywhere on childrens TV


    Dude, their ratings would skyrocket!
    1.04ever
  • WarningForeverWarningForever Members Join Date: 2004-05-06 Member: 28503Posts: 121
    "Decency" laws are media-induced fears turned into legislature.

    I've seen plenty of violent movies in my younger years and blown up more aliens and terrorists than I can count.

    And I'm not screwed up...

    Uh...

    Not THAT screwed up.
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  • RenegadeRenegade Old school Members Join Date: 2002-03-29 Member: 361Posts: 1,966
    I for one, also do not like decentcy laws. Given, there are limits as to what you should and shouldn't show (scenes dipicting graphic rape may just be a wee bit too intense for the youngin's), but overall I think they're there simply childish (a pun, I know. Feel free to slap me for that).
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  • Marine0IMarine0I Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8639Posts: 1,870
    QUOTE (moultano @ Nov 15 2004, 12:15 PM)
    QUOTE (Marine01 @ Nov 14 2004, 06:38 PM)
    One word - sexual context.

    First of all, I have to chuckle at this. tounge.gif

    Argh - this should be a warning to all of the dangers of proofreading. I went back, saw that I'd used erotica twice and edited Erotica to Sexual Content.

    /hangs head in shame
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Members Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Posts: 7,018
    edited November 2004
    [edit]Crap, somehow double posted. Ignore
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Members Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Posts: 7,018
    This thread could use some goat-see!







    See my point?
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  • TheWizardTheWizard Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10553Posts: 1,646 Advanced user
    edited November 2004
    Swiftspear was thinking along the same lines as me.

    Just imagine seeing a bus drive by with a Tubgirl or ol' redeye advertisement.


    Decency laws need to be reworked so people get an idea of what will occur in a broadcast or program. Just as long as you are not going to try to take me by surpise while I am eathing my dinner and watching the evening news I am fine with that.
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  • Trent_HawkinsTrent_Hawkins Members Join Date: 2003-03-25 Member: 14875Posts: 94
    QUOTE (Faskalia @ Nov 14 2004, 02:21 PM)
    Can anyone answer the following question: Why does a land that is obviously against nudity has the biggest porn industrie in the world, as well as the most sold porn-movies per person?

    I think it has somthing to do with the fact that if you cover anything up, it becomes desireable. Be it literaly with clothes, or figuratively with laws. And often enough, one brings about the other.

    If a society were to wear elbow pads in public, eventually that society might find elbows quite desireable. A law would be made outlawing public showing of elbows, and people will go out of their way to see some.
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  • That_Annoying_KidThat_Annoying_Kid Sire of Titles Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14175Posts: 5,583 Advanced user
    edited November 2004
    the decency laws that slapped howard stern aren't able to affect satelite radio, and thats where he is going..


    You can't say Ahole on the radio now, that was a new addition. Loveline's hosts self censor themselves, and any callers who swear are cut out [they run everything on an 8 second delay] I think the deceny laws make it so things can't get overly wrong, but they keep a certain aspect of civilization in the show.

    [edit]
    oh yeah, swiftspear: best double post ever
  • EpidemicEpidemic Dark Force Gorge Members Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17781Posts: 3,104 Advanced user
    They need to be rehauled, if not totally revised and named soemthing else. I'm all in favour of censoring extreme violence and pronography in peak hours. though,
    I saw a radscorpion the other day.
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Members Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Posts: 7,018
    QUOTE (That Annoying Kid @ Nov 15 2004, 04:18 PM)
    [edit]
    oh yeah, swiftspear: best double post ever

    Screw you, I am perfect, it was a flaw in reality not me.
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  • SpaceMoogle5SpaceMoogle5 Members, NS1 Playtester Join Date: 2003-06-23 Member: 17643Posts: 237
    a few things regarding this:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


    For those of you playing the home game the above is our loveable and living First Amendment.

    I see sooooo many instances of the above being squished by the very people that are supposed to fight to keep this bad boy intact(police, local government, and up to the national level)

    Back when this was written there was; NO radio, NO TV, and NO intarweb(OMG!!) So these areas are always questionable, HOWEVER this Moogle's interpretation of our beloved first amendment is this:


    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

    The US will never have a national religion... this is pretty to the point, we must respect all faiths and denominiations, they are a persons faith, and they deserve to have faith in a higher power, this is deserving of every person. A person without hope/faith is lost, say what you will I know I am right on this, and faith does not mean just in Christ, Allah, God, budda, the Goddess, or David Koresh. It can be in yourself, your wife, or the guy next door, simply put religion is more than just Bibles, and Torahs, people need to respect that.


    or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,

    These guys get trampled worse than ants under oni. Any time you can be fined for what you say, something is wrong!(save purgery) I am a firm believer in the philosiphy that, while the wording is important, the MESSAGE is far more important.
    70 to 80 percent of human communication is non-verbal, the wording may be BY FAR the least threatening or offensive part of a discussion.

    I truly believe that the laws should be revamped, to cover things like television, it cracks me up that, while congress will never pass a LAW that abridges our freedom of speech, they will make a commission that fines the living crap out of people over what they "deem" indecent. The FCC is single biggest infringement on the first amendment, since... well ever. Armed with a list of "potty" words and a high sense of what is wrong and right... well at least they posess the aforementioned list. While I understand that parents are trying to shield thier kids from the horrors of indecency, there are better ways. We live in a high tech world, in the next few years, you will have COMPLETE control over what media you decide to partake in. I think that it is on the people, and NOT the goverment or any of its little buddies, to decide what we view/listen to, and what we think our kids should listen to/watch.

    In closing let me say this:

    I am a gentle soul, ask anyone that knows me, I am fair and and kind(not to toot my own horn) I however use so much profanity, that sailors and truckers accuse each other of having William mouth(my real name is William). Does it make me a bad person for dropping more F bombs than Chris Rock? Of course not, what is moral, and what people have been spoon fed as moral, are two VERY different things.

    I am tired, so for now I will call it a night.

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    PS: I am pretty far out on the left so I expect some good rational arguements tomarrow, but for now I sleep.


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  • MetalcatMetalcat Members Join Date: 2004-08-11 Member: 30528Posts: 1,321
    ok this just made me think about something. in Denmark no matter how much you say **** on televison. you wont get censored.
    also they show any movies and things.
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  • CrispyCrispy Jaded GD Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Posts: 3,225
    QUOTE (moultano @ Nov 14 2004, 02:07 PM)
    This may even need to be a topic all of its own, but here's something I really don't understand.
    Why do we feel as a culture that seeing nude people is harmful to children? So much hell was raised over Janet Jackson's nipple. Most babies see nipples from the day they are born, and it doesn't seem to have any adverse effects . . .

    I'd speculate that a hell of a lot of eating disorders are the result of us not seeing nude people all the time. If we all saw on a regular basis how real people look naked, I suspect we wouldn't have such inflated standards for what makes someone attractive.

    Having been living in Spain for almost two months now I'll tell you a bit about their censorship.

    One day I was having my breakfast. Having poured myself a cup of overpriced tea my eyes were suddenly drawn to the screen as a strange advert began. It was advertising see-through, adhesive, circular pads to pull up the more senior ladies' appendiges that were succumbing to the effects of gravity. As far as sexual context, I'd find it hard to believe that anyone could get off on this but-. The advert continued and lo and behold a topless woman proceeded to demonstrate the application of these pads, not to mention their effectiveness!

    This was the first 'excessive' nudity this English prude saw on television. Now when I think about it, it's perfectly acceptible to see non-sexual nudity on our television screens. I was only shocked because of how our decency laws prohibit this outrageously saucy exposure. The next example is slightly stronger in sexual content, but I have also decided that it's not too extreme for my fragile, English mind.

    Come the early morning in Barcelona the TV programming goes a bit... well a bit XXX. Having come back from a night out somewhere I stuck the telly on as a distraction for me while I waited for some food to cook. I wanted smething fairly light and hoped I'd be able to find it by channel surfing. In this case the opposite of light is HARD! Almost half of the fifteen or so channels was showing porn in varying degrees of picture quality, and I'm not talking softcore. This was in your face ultra-closeups with all the trimmings added. I sat there utterly shocked as near deafening moans and groans echoed around the living room, threatening to wake up my housemates.

    The latter example doesn't only extend to those channels showing porn though. Another night I was watching a film with a housemate and the commercial interlude reared its ugly head. As I recall it was around 23:00 or 24:00 (bear in mind that Spaniards eat dinner at 22:00) and almost every advert was for a 'talkline' numbers. In England these are advertised showing the young hopeful ringing up the hotline and meeting up with her for 'talk, a date, or perhaps more?'. The Spanish 'talklines' leave no room for suggestion bombarding your senses with more of what was described previously.

    As far as I can tell this lack of censorship has resulted in neither sex-crazed maniacs nor ultra-conservative Spaniards, they seem perfectly normal to me. This makes me wonder why UK has decency laws on advertisements for shower products and the like.
  • CMEastCMEast Members Join Date: 2002-05-19 Member: 632Posts: 1,655
    I don't believe in decency laws, I just believe in acting decent to people.

    I don't care whats in the media so long as I'm not forced to view it, I don't care if people wanna get high, have sex and/or attack each other, as long as all participating parties get hurt and there are no negative repercussions for others (by this I mean that it is done in a private place where again, noone is subjected to it and that noone else gets hurt (playing with rocket launchers on a motorway is baaad) then its fine by me.

    I advocate legalising... well everything to be honest, you'd never find tubgirl on a bus as you can't change the channel on a bus. Besides which what would it advertise?

    PS, you just have called it Moogle Mouth, alliteration ftw smile-fix.gif
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  • TheCheeseStandsAloneTheCheeseStandsAlone Members Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21768Posts: 142
    It reflects where the power is, we are ruled by the rescessive party. (Go dinosaurs!)
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  • panda_de_malheureuxpanda_de_malheureux Members Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24775Posts: 1,633
    edited November 2004
    In NZ you can have sex at 16 but you can't see a chicks nipples on tv until you're 18.
  • Deus_Ex_MachinaDeus_Ex_Machina Members Join Date: 2004-07-01 Member: 29674Posts: 242
    OMG YOU CAINT LORK AT TEH NIPPELS UNTIL U R 18 IN TEH USA!!

    Honestly, decency laws are pretty stupid in most cases. When I visited France, I saw a TV ad where a NAKED (OMGZ!) woman was depicted. Guess what? French kids aren't screwed up any more than American kids.
    QUOTE (Zig @ Jun 20 2004, 03:28 PM)
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