the server admins dont have to be open minded at all, they can run their server however they want them becuase they pay for them. They allowed you to re-create the thread, it wasnt deleted, what more do you want?
Maybe if NS was more popular, servers that did this would not have any players on them...
As for the masses being stupid, yeah -- that sounds about right. I voice_scale 0 all the time so I cant hear a thing and I just rambo off in classic (much like what you're complaining about now)
The community will not bend / shift to fit the context of the game, instead it will be the game that makes those changes. A new system where rambo'ing was quite useless (IE - maybe if there was someone of importantance to go once in a while, rather than having an TDM with a little annoyance called the commander) would greatly improve the gameplay.
<!--QuoteBegin-evilTurtle+Nov 9 2004, 12:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (evilTurtle @ Nov 9 2004, 12:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> IMHO i think that when the dev team/Flayra (cant remember who) came out and said the game was to be developed or fixed for clan play it automatically caused a rift between clanners and pubbers.
The rift has just gotten bigger since that time. Yes there are alot of nice and helpful clanners but also the same amount of ignorant and disrespectful clanners too. Remember one disrespectful person can ruin everything for his/her own race/kin/group (whattever you want to call it).
Dont be surprised if it never changes. Best thing to do is to take the vet signs away and when pubbing drop the tag, yes i said drop the tag (its a sin). Sometimes you have to give some to gain some.,
Peace and Chicken Grease
Turtle <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have to agree.
...but I hope it does change because it is real frik'n tragedy that clanners and vets can't/don't mix with regular pubbers or casual players.
I saw a thread on here making a funny statement how the role-playing forum is more active then the clan recruiting forum... funny as it was I think it is a direct result of the divide between clanners/vets and pubbers in this community.
If <i>anyone</i> is still arguing one group is more important then the other group I invite them off their ferris wheel of logic so I can smack them with my backhand of reality.
<u>Pubbers need Clanners/Vets</u> They push the boundries of NS strategy and gameplay-wise which helps develope NS They introduce and innovate strategy for pub play Showcasing talent they attract attention and create"superstar" advertisers to draw new players They can help;
newbies become pubbers -> pubbers become regs -> regs become clanners -> clanners become vets
<u>Clanners need Pubbers</u> Simply put: They are your fans They are where new talent can develop which sustains and helps the clan scene grow They form the largest group of "advertisers" which introduce new players to NS They form the biggest group of players in the community
It's like one big frik'n circle of life.
I'm glad this thread was created. It took guts for someone to bring up a potentially divisive problem that really hurts NS but no one talks about. One of the reasons I lost interest in NS is because Pubbing Classic was full of uncreative, boring, strategies that became painful 45+ minute stalemates without an end in sight. I believe it was because regs/clanner/vets became less involved and less interested in pubs and the benefit of their insight and cutting edge strategies didn't "trickle-down" into pub severs. I believe this thread addresses a problem for <i>both</i> Clanners and Pubbers equally.
<i><b>**The rest of this stuff is opinion**</b></i>
We may never be able to quantify the relationship between Clanners and Pubbers but I believe Clanners cannot exist without Pubbers, and without Clanners the game will grow stale and slowly sufficate the number of Pubbers.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Nov 8 2004, 10:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Nov 8 2004, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then again, a lot of people have been abandoning #LM thanks to rather asshatted rules, and a way-too-lax for comfort adminning system. Either that, or different MMOs steal their life D:<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-SentrySteve+ Nov 9 2004, 07:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SentrySteve @ Nov 9 2004, 07:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe if NS was more popular, servers that did this would not have any players on them...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See, this is what I don't understand. This is the second thread about "ignorant" pub communities, both for some reason include LM. I am an LM reg, and yes, the gameplay isn't always competitive quality, and sometimes admins make poor judgments. But it is a well organized community, and with a large span of skill and fun. There are clanners who are regs, and mainline pubbers. We never bash/attack any clanner, in fact, most I've met on LM are great players. Yes, scripts are blocked, and the no spawncamping rule is sometimes mis-appropriated. But all servers aren't perfect. Nadagast also said that the strategies are poor and redundant. Well, I command on LM, FR31NS, and YO, and I don't use "lame" strategies on any server, and we generally win. Granted, well organized communities of mostly clanners/vets will have a higher level of teamwork, but I have more trouble sometimes with that one vet/clanner who wants a shotgun to go off and do his thing. I've had wins against competent marine teams on LM using SC first, which requires mucho teamwork.
I don't buy into the whole clan vs. pubbers issue. If you're a good player, AND you respect others, I like playing on the same server. But when someone is asked to do something to abide by the rules, and refuses stating "I don't want ot ruin this score", then I have no use for you on my team, you are not benefitting us in any way.
Also, if you have certain issues with a community, wouldn't it be fitting to actually GO to that community first before advertising how ignorant and backwards they are to the whole community?
<!--QuoteBegin-..tim..+Nov 9 2004, 11:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (..tim.. @ Nov 9 2004, 11:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, if you have certain issues with a community, wouldn't it be fitting to actually GO to that community first before advertising how ignorant and backwards they are to the whole community?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yep, it is right to go to that community first, but then you get replies like this from the Lunixmonster Forums Discussions.
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Nov 8 2004, 01:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Nov 8 2004, 01:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TheAdj+Nov 8 2004, 01:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheAdj @ Nov 8 2004, 01:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> LM bans people for what most competitive players would see as unreasonable rules
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well thats their problem. To put it moderately bluntly, if someone doesn't like it, they can get lost. Buy their own server and make their own rules. We're all here at LB's pleasure, and what he says goes. Welcome to private property. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People who go overboard to try to stand up for the server owner/admins to get free brownie points, when he blatantly chooses to ignore the rest of Adj's posts which were very valid, only picking and choosing lines that fit his hardcore response.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
Just because I know someone's going to say it: This part of this thread was inevitable. I know its not about Lunixmonster, but when it comes to people talking about Clanners vs. Pubbers(which isn't what this thread is about anyway), LM will continue to be the one shown at the forefront.
Why? Because as it is, LM has a reputation as being "One of the Best" when it comes to pubbing servers. Hell, I've gone onto hundreds of different servers, and still haven't found one as high quality as LM. But I still disagree with the rules.
LM is a pub server that yes, despite what you say Rad4Christ(aka, tim), uses redundant strats. Hell, I can't count the number of times we've sieged cargo from the west side hallway, always trying to get a phase there. The other side? I've never seen it done once. Every map has strats that we use almost exclusively, and it always ends up coming down to player aiming/skillatkillingasanalien quality more than quality of the commander, which is sad, because commanding is easy enough as it is(hell, I can do it!).
As for Necrotic's post, I love Adj's reply.
<!--QuoteBegin-TheAdj+Nov 8 2004, 04:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheAdj @ Nov 8 2004, 04:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Nov 8 2004, 01:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Nov 8 2004, 01:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->LM bans people for what most competitive players would see as unreasonable rules <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well thats their problem. To put it moderately bluntly, if someone doesn't like it, they can get lost. Buy their own server and make their own rules. We're all here at LB's pleasure, and what he says goes. Welcome to private property. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're real quick to quote my first line but not the two that follow it. Please continue your usual line-by-line refutation (which negates the effect of spreading a thought over multiple lines, thereby taking only PART of what was said, which is very convenient for you, isn't it?). Saying "This is the rule, there is no discussion on it (on the MESSAGE BOARD, where such discussion is meant to take place), if you don't like it leave" is the easiest way to avoid talking about something for whatever reason. That gives you reason to do whatever you want because "I'm the admin and I say so, and you can't argue with me at all". Since LM seems to think of itself, rightly or not, as an important pub, what does it say about the community when rules can't be discussed "Because if people don't like it they can leave". I'm sure there is a logical fallacy in that, I simply can't find it yet. [right][snapback]33044[/snapback][/right] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rules, while not meant to be broken, are meant to be challenged, so that they stay true to the game.
I'm just glad to find out that the # sign affects adminmod. I had no idea. GG suckysoftware!
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Nov 9 2004, 12:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Nov 9 2004, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-taft+Nov 8 2004, 11:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taft @ Nov 8 2004, 11:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i'm not seeing how this thread has changed any ones mind about anything
not only did it inevitably pop up another discussion about scripts in NS, but it wasn't a very prominant issue in the first place.. the issue of pubbers vs clanners in NS has existed for a very long time and cannot be remedied due to unshared interests among different players
accept that they are ignorant because <u>they want to be</u>.. if you get banned, move on <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> it's not an issue of clanners vs pubbers jesus
it's about ignorant communities and their promotion of bad ideas <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hey dude go read your first post and subsequent posts after that
you've pointed out many great examples like the idea that pubbers don't listen to the evidence about why scripting isn't cheating, that pubbers seem to shut themselves off from the reality of competitive NS gameplay and strategies, that they can't seem to understand that good players don't use third party programs that play the game for them, et cetera.
i'm not sure how this entire thread doesn't ultimately boil down to a pubber vs clanner issue or why you are making frowny faces at my post <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Nov 7 2004, 05:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Nov 7 2004, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->…snipped… Ignorance in pubbing communities (some of the main ones are, Voogru, G4B2S, lunix (although I haven't played on lunix in a long time), etc) is killing NS's clan scene, and NS on a whole. They reject outsider's viewpoints. Block scripts (unjustifiably, while leaving mp_consistency at 0). They hate clanners for some reason I have yet to find out... and generally I see it as a cesspool of ignorance, unwilling to change or even hear outside views. They consider pubs the top of the ladder, when it just is not true. The pubs promote crappy strategies and even worse teamwork, then pretend like they are great, or amazing. I think it's easy to see why it's so hard to convince them otherwise. …snipped…<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes … there are ignorant pubbers but many clanners are the same way. On my server the major group making trouble are clanners. We had so many clanner just joining the server saving up for Fade getting some frags and if they’re going again Fade or if they don’t have the resources they quit. Also what’s about whining and flaming and insulting the admin the clanner are the lead group. That’s why some pubbers don’t like clanner and act ignorant.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Nov 7 2004, 05:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Nov 7 2004, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All I wanted was a reasonable discussion or even a reason why they block scripts. The best they can give me is "we have decided to block scripts". Yet they decided based on what? Urban legends of what scripts can do? I'd bet a thousand dollars that the admins that made this decision were horribly uninformed. Every person who has been educated about scripts has no problem with them. Now, scripts aren't the point of this post, so please don't reply as to whatever your feelings are about them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I must agree with you that an administrator should be able to argue his decisions and there are arguments for activating blockscripts. On my servers it’s not activated.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Nov 7 2004, 05:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Nov 7 2004, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The point is that these pub communities (for the most part, NSA and FAT have converted and I commend them) are so intolerant of anything other than their nice pubbing buddies in their community, that it's stifling clan play. Also, these communities are typically ones where terrible strats are used on both teams and it leads to terribly boring gameplay (OC farm vs Turret Farm). They think that a pub is the pinnacle of teamplay, and typically (hypocritically) accuse clanners of being rambos who use no teamwork... when this could not be further from the truth. Clan play is the real top of teamwork, … snipped …<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Newbie’s whine – Veterans adept (even pub team play). Team play on pubs is not the same thing like your scrims. There are different rules. Maybe you have problems to re-adept these rules and maybe you’re stucked in your play-to-win tactics.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Nov 7 2004, 05:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Nov 7 2004, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So that's why I posted here. To attempt to convert some of the most hardcore anti-clan/script/rambo people... I guess all I really want is an open-minded discussion, I'm confident if you see the evidence you'll be swayed =)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It’s up onto you to change this. Don’t await respect only because of your vet icon or clan tag. In a community you have to earn your respect. Elite isn’t only about being a very good player, it’s about appearance and showing respect to others.
But I sign your request to not judge players on their clan tags or their icons but on what they say and do.
<!--QuoteBegin-taft+Nov 9 2004, 12:02 PM --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taft @ Nov 9 2004, 12:02 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i'm not sure how this entire thread doesn't ultimately boil down to a pubber vs clanner issue or why you are making frowny faces at my post <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because the ignorant community doesn't just limit itself to pubbers and pubs, there are also clanning communities who feel the same because they don't understand issues like scripts, aren't educated in issues like scripts, choose not to be educated in issues like scripts. Though this clanning community is mostly outside of the US clanning community, I won't go into it further than that.
<!--QuoteBegin-Scylla+ Nov 9 2004, 12:13 PM --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Scylla @ Nov 9 2004, 12:13 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe you have problems to re-adept these rules and maybe you’re stucked in your play-to-win tactics. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll be the first to admit that I sometimes enjoyed a round on a map where I have lost but didn't feel bitter about the loss. Yes we had really good teamwork, made many valiant attempts to win, etc yet we still lost (and no this isn't limited to scrims/matches, hell some scrims/matches are worse than some pub games I've enjoyed). However, who starts the round thinking, "you know, I'm gonna try to lose this round". NS isn't based on losing... heck no games are I believe. Everyone wants to win, whether they want to admit or not, though its true some take losing differently than others. If someone joins a game who wants to lose, then they only hurt the team and will most definately **** people off who are on their team and are trying their best to win. I absolutely hate commanders who go, "Guess what, I'm not gonna try to win this game but I'll try to make it FUN." Fun? In your definition of fun maybe, maybe feeding your marines to aliens repeatedly is fun for you in some sadistic manner, but definately not fun for me.
At time's I've gone knife only, no shooting, because a lot of people have been crying 'stack! stack!' on the other team, handicapping myself on pubs just to give some balance. But then it ends up MY team being **** at me for not trying hard and winning for them, which I totally understand. So as you can see, winning may not be all that for you, but there are some others on your team who would hate to see someone purposely trying to lose because it makes them feel stupid and it wastes their time, not everyone has the time to play 20 games a day.
As a reg of the G4B2S community, I finally come across this thread. Yes, I've the same name and avatar on those forums as well, as well as the same sig before Talesin baleeted it <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. So there are a few points I'd like to make.
Firstly, in defense of the response of the admin and community on our forums, I'd like to say that <b>Nadagast</b>, while he has brought up some excellent points of discussion, he's just as inflexible as the community and admin he argues against. I suppose it's not possible any other way, as there really is no "mp_blockscripts 0.5" option, but by adopting what I smell as <i>condescension</i> he's not winning himself any friends over there.
Pubs vs. competitive play. I've done a few #nspug games before, and I see very clearly how it is different. Face it, competitive and casual play are two sides of the NS coin; joined by their substrate (the excellent NS mod), but diametrically opposite in view and practices. <b>Nadagast</b>, you don't seem to understand that we play <i>for fun</i>. Not that we are unskilled (I have a feeling that you're pulling your impression of our gameplay from some random time you joined and tested it out; come play with us late-night, when the regs and the admins are on, and you will see pub-style teamwork), but that our playing style is different. We play not for competition, but for enjoyment.
Forgive the double-post, there is one point I'd like to ask, to <b>Nadagast</b> specifically.
What are you trying to do? It seems from what I've read of your posts, that you're out to "educate" us and make us "see the light". In which case, you're not really interested in a compromise, you're out to see that it's done <i>your way</i>. In which case, drop the pretense of debate. Now. You cast us in a light of being stone-willed and inflexible, but you yourself <i>are no better</i>, and by pretending otherwise, are worse.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Nov 9 2004, 11:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Nov 9 2004, 11:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just because I know someone's going to say it: This part of this thread was inevitable. I know its not about Lunixmonster, but when it comes to people talking about Clanners vs. Pubbers(which isn't what this thread is about anyway), LM will continue to be the one shown at the forefront.
Why? Because as it is, LM has a reputation as being "One of the Best" when it comes to pubbing servers. Hell, I've gone onto hundreds of different servers, and still haven't found one as high quality as LM. But I still disagree with the rules.
LM is a pub server that yes, despite what you say Rad4Christ(aka, tim), uses redundant strats. Hell, I can't count the number of times we've sieged cargo from the west side hallway, always trying to get a phase there. The other side? I've never seen it done once. Every map has strats that we use almost exclusively, and it always ends up coming down to player aiming/skillatkillingasanalien quality more than quality of the commander, which is sad, because commanding is easy enough as it is(hell, I can do it!).
As for Necrotic's post, I love Adj's reply.
<!--QuoteBegin-TheAdj+Nov 8 2004, 04:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheAdj @ Nov 8 2004, 04:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Nov 8 2004, 01:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Nov 8 2004, 01:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->LM bans people for what most competitive players would see as unreasonable rules <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well thats their problem. To put it moderately bluntly, if someone doesn't like it, they can get lost. Buy their own server and make their own rules. We're all here at LB's pleasure, and what he says goes. Welcome to private property. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're real quick to quote my first line but not the two that follow it. Please continue your usual line-by-line refutation (which negates the effect of spreading a thought over multiple lines, thereby taking only PART of what was said, which is very convenient for you, isn't it?). Saying "This is the rule, there is no discussion on it (on the MESSAGE BOARD, where such discussion is meant to take place), if you don't like it leave" is the easiest way to avoid talking about something for whatever reason. That gives you reason to do whatever you want because "I'm the admin and I say so, and you can't argue with me at all". Since LM seems to think of itself, rightly or not, as an important pub, what does it say about the community when rules can't be discussed "Because if people don't like it they can leave". I'm sure there is a logical fallacy in that, I simply can't find it yet. [right][snapback]33044[/snapback][/right] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rules, while not meant to be broken, are meant to be challenged, so that they stay true to the game.
I'm just glad to find out that the # sign affects adminmod. I had no idea. GG suckysoftware! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://www.lunixmonster.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2242&view=findpost&p=33091' target='_blank'>Read</a> my reply, I'm pretty skeptical that whole '#' is bad for the server thing is true.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes … there are ignorant pubbers but many clanners are the same way. On my server the major group making trouble are clanners. We had so many clanner just joining the server saving up for Fade getting some frags and if they’re going again Fade or if they don’t have the resources they quit. Also what’s about whining and flaming and insulting the admin the clanner are the lead group. That’s why some pubbers don’t like clanner and act ignorant.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow! Since when is going fade bad?
One of the #1 thing that irks me about your pub is that they think they know how to play the game, and 9 times out of 10 they are wrong.
You can even politely explain to them with text:
"Actually we need fades to combat the marine's effective, esp. if they use static defenses"
"Forlorn, go fade and get banned"
<3 pubs
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Pubs vs. competitive play. I've done a few #nspug games before, and I see very clearly how it is different. Face it, competitive and casual play are two sides of the NS coin; joined by their substrate (the excellent NS mod), but diametrically opposite in view and practices. Nadagast, you don't seem to understand that we play for fun. Not that we are unskilled (I have a feeling that you're pulling your impression of our gameplay from some random time you joined and tested it out; come play with us late-night, when the regs and the admins are on, and you will see pub-style teamwork), but that our playing style is different. We play not for competition, but for enjoyment.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, you play to win. That is the only point to the game and that's what makes it fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What are you trying to do? It seems from what I've read of your posts, that you're out to "educate" us and make us "see the light". In which case, you're not really interested in a compromise, you're out to see that it's done your way. In which case, drop the pretense of debate. Now. You cast us in a light of being stone-willed and inflexible, but you yourself are no better, and by pretending otherwise, are worse.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See, we've already seen your side of the issue, then we name a counter point.
Do we ever get a counter point past that? Hell no. It almost always stops there. Community admins never compromise or listen.
<!--QuoteBegin-john_sheu+Nov 9 2004, 12:39 PM --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (john_sheu @ Nov 9 2004, 12:39 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In which case, you're not really interested in a compromise, you're out to see that it's done your way. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no "his way" or "Nadagast's Superway", perhaps you're confusing "his way" for some admins or server owners with Nadagast because he's not saying, "Do it MY way or NS is gonna die!"
He's trying to show that a good amount, perhaps even majority, of the NS Community right now is slowly stifling the game and the way the game was heading towards. A lot of players are starting to block off any attempts at helping them understand the game better, understand the different and more effective strategies better, and understand the way stuff like scripts work. They choose instead to ignore that, either creating an image that they are lies and untruths, or being told otherwise. Which in turn creates more misinformation to spread about various tactics, strategies, scripting issues, etc. That is what is the subject at hand here, not some mysterious way of Nadagast's where a wave of his hand will right every wrong because he had his way.
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 9 2004, 12:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 9 2004, 12:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-john_sheu+Nov 9 2004, 12:39 PM --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (john_sheu @ Nov 9 2004, 12:39 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In which case, you're not really interested in a compromise, you're out to see that it's done your way. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no "his way" or "Nadagast's Superway", perhaps you're confusing "his way" for some admins or server owners with Nadagast because he's not saying, "Do it MY way or NS is gonna die!"
He's trying to show that a good amount, perhaps even majority, of the NS Community right now is slowly stifling the game and the way the game was heading towards. A lot of players are starting to block off any attempts at helping them understand the game better, understand the different and more effective strategies better, and understand the way stuff like scripts work. They choose instead to ignore that, either creating an image that they are lies and untruths, or being told otherwise. Which in turn creates more misinformation to spread about various tactics, strategies, scripting issues, etc. That is what is the subject at hand here, not some mysterious way of Nadagast's where a wave of his hand will right every wrong because he had his way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh yes, Nadagast speaks for just about every single clanner atm right now.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 9 2004, 10:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 9 2004, 10:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Lightning Blue+Nov 9 2004, 08:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lightning Blue @ Nov 9 2004, 08:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'll poke my head in here cause I am bored and say the no <b>#</b> sign in names is because it messes adminmod/hlds up at times.
Other then that, I am happy people are enjoying thier community. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh that's cool because you never tell anyone who gets banned with the # mark as to why
Furthermore I can't imagine how it would screw things up considering every #cri member has their name spelt with a space first.
" #cri.sano" See the space? You can't start your name with the <b>#</b>, not even steam allows that.
Sounds like a **** poor excuse to perma ban a clan if you ask me
I've been perma banned from the lunixmonster server ever since I just went on with my #cri tag (which I am not longer a part of).
So yeah call whatever whatever but the bottem line is you use bull^^ excuses to perma ban people. (I was also banned from the old lunixmonster server back on the WON system when I lmg'ed some dude named Insane who was fading, he claimed I exploited the models)
Btw #cri is probably 2 times as old as the LM server, last veteran clan and look at the respect you guys give (read: :rolleyes: )
Many many more to go (lunixmonster, voogru, pgc clan, etc. etc.)
The truth spreads eventually, but it takes time... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This original quote goes along nicely with Nadagast's "culture of ignorance"
Your community and server promotes the culture, and untill you guys learn you will always continue to promote it.
Congrats for making this thread Necrosis, I'm sure 100 people have seen it due to the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84913&view=findpost&p=1323111' target='_blank'>link</a> on the NS forums, and showing an excellent example of why this community is ignorant and needs a change. Your example isn't quite as bad as the other ones but fits the bill nicely.
Much <3 Necrosis, you really helped my causes out!
First off, LB has managed more servers than most in this community. If he says adminmod has a problem with it, <b>admin mod has a problem with it.</b> Spaces, if you didn't know, screw up a lot of things anyway.
Also, many #cri members don't have spaces before their names. Hell, when I've played with you in the kindof-recent past, you didn't either, cause your name lined right up with everyone elses.
I agree that a perma ban for something like that isn't good, but guess what: They weren't! Timeban my friend. You got kicked because you frequently act like an asshat- the same reason most of the people in the community don't like you. I myself have given you lots of chances, and have even fought for you a few times, without you caring much anyway.
While LM is a bit ignorant in this, you yourself have no right to speak as if you are devoid of any sins in that regard. You seem to have the attitude that pubbers simply don't amount to anything- which definately isn't true, as many other clanners can confirm.
Also, one thing I find funny, is how you insult pubbers so blatantly stupidly. You say they don't know how to play the game- sure, telling someone their a res-**** for going fade early definately isn't right, but almost all of the time, there are different ways to play the game, contrary to what you seem to think Forlorn. Hence the reason the pubbers vs. clanners conversation came up- THEY PLAY THE GAME DIFFERENTLY! Thats not to say that either side is correct, but that different styles for different people!
Also, while #cri is older than Lunixmonster, I know for a fact it isn't older than the server itself- the server was the old Nanogridlock, which was up the second available. It was one of the first recognized servers, and frankly, would have been up even earlier being it was hosted by the first clan(eh, group more than competitive) for NS, Evolutionarily Challenged. And Lunixmonster itself came not long after anyway, because of some infighting in said clan.
Don't bash for getting banned. If they were permabanned, it was because they were being asshats- hence why there are a few #cri members still playing on Lunixmonster every once in a while.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Nov 9 2004, 12:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Nov 9 2004, 12:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 9 2004, 10:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 9 2004, 10:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Lightning Blue+Nov 9 2004, 08:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lightning Blue @ Nov 9 2004, 08:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'll poke my head in here cause I am bored and say the no <b>#</b> sign in names is because it messes adminmod/hlds up at times.
Other then that, I am happy people are enjoying thier community. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh that's cool because you never tell anyone who gets banned with the # mark as to why
Furthermore I can't imagine how it would screw things up considering every #cri member has their name spelt with a space first.
" #cri.sano" See the space? You can't start your name with the <b>#</b>, not even steam allows that.
Sounds like a **** poor excuse to perma ban a clan if you ask me
I've been perma banned from the lunixmonster server ever since I just went on with my #cri tag (which I am not longer a part of).
So yeah call whatever whatever but the bottem line is you use bull^^ excuses to perma ban people. (I was also banned from the old lunixmonster server back on the WON system when I lmg'ed some dude named Insane who was fading, he claimed I exploited the models)
Btw #cri is probably 2 times as old as the LM server, last veteran clan and look at the respect you guys give (read: :rolleyes: )
Many many more to go (lunixmonster, voogru, pgc clan, etc. etc.)
The truth spreads eventually, but it takes time... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This original quote goes along nicely with Nadagast's "culture of ignorance"
Your community and server promotes the culture, and untill you guys learn you will always continue to promote it.
Congrats for making this thread Necrosis, I'm sure 100 people have seen it due to the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84913&view=findpost&p=1323111' target='_blank'>link</a> on the NS forums, and showing an excellent example of why this community is ignorant and needs a change. Your example isn't quite as bad as the other ones but fits the bill nicely.
Much <3 Necrosis, you really helped my causes out!
First off, LB has managed more servers than most in this community. If he says adminmod has a problem with it, <b>admin mod has a problem with it.</b> Spaces, if you didn't know, screw up a lot of things anyway.
Also, many #cri members don't have spaces before their names. Hell, when I've played with you in the kindof-recent past, you didn't either, cause your name lined right up with everyone elses.
I agree that a perma ban for something like that isn't good, but guess what: They weren't! Timeban my friend. You got kicked because you frequently act like an asshat- the same reason most of the people in the community don't like you. I myself have given you lots of chances, and have even fought for you a few times, without you caring much anyway.
While LM is a bit ignorant in this, you yourself have no right to speak as if you are devoid of any sins in that regard. You seem to have the attitude that pubbers simply don't amount to anything- which definately isn't true, as many other clanners can confirm.
Also, one thing I find funny, is how you insult pubbers so blatantly stupidly. You say they don't know how to play the game- sure, telling someone their a res-**** for going fade early definately isn't right, but almost all of the time, there are different ways to play the game, contrary to what you seem to think Forlorn. Hence the reason the pubbers vs. clanners conversation came up- THEY PLAY THE GAME DIFFERENTLY! Thats not to say that either side is correct, but that different styles for different people!
Also, while #cri is older than Lunixmonster, I know for a fact it isn't older than the server itself- the server was the old Nanogridlock, which was up the second available. It was one of the first recognized servers, and frankly, would have been up even earlier being it was hosted by the first clan(eh, group more than competitive) for NS, Evolutionarily Challenged. And Lunixmonster itself came not long after anyway, because of some infighting in said clan.
Don't bash for getting banned. If they were permabanned, it was because they were being asshats- hence why there are a few #cri members still playing on Lunixmonster every once in a while. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You are niave if you believe this.
1. Why doesn't the rules state that # screws up the plugins instead of no advirtising? I mean I'd still get kicked for www.google.com or whatever so it doens't make sense.
2. There are no #cri members that play there from time to time. Sano and MrGunner just decided to go there and see what happens, and somehow I do not think they were surprised.
3. No one was ever being an asshat. When I was banned, the most insulting thing I did was ask 'why', not that I actually cared.
4. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While LM is a bit ignorant in this, you yourself have no right to speak as if you are devoid of any sins in that regard. You seem to have the attitude that pubbers simply don't amount to anything- which definately isn't true, as many other clanners can confirm.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Prove that.
5. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, while #cri is older than Lunixmonster, I know for a fact it isn't older than the server itself- the server was the old Nanogridlock, which was up the second available. It was one of the first recognized servers, and frankly, would have been up even earlier being it was hosted by the first clan(eh, group more than competitive) for NS, Evolutionarily Challenged. And Lunixmonster itself came not long after anyway, because of some infighting in said clan.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Small history, everyone played on the nanogridlock from what I hear, when it became the lunixmonster it became the monster culture of ignorance back in 2.0, and slowly got a bit bitter but still remains a bit wrong today.
6. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but that different styles for different people!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't something of "understanding" or being "considerate". We all play the same game and there are definately most efficient ways to play it. When I play other games and some clanner gives me some advice I tell him "Okay, I'll give it a try." Now why can't these people give it a try? It's just a game! You should try everything, right? (read: I-g-n-o-r-a-n-c-e)
Pubbers hump it and dump it half the time, you cannot rely on that to keep a game alive.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Nov 9 2004, 12:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Nov 9 2004, 12:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also, many #cri members don't have spaces before their names. Hell, when I've played with you in the kindof-recent past, you didn't either, cause your name lined right up with everyone elses. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually we have to add a space in front of # when we input it in the console because the game won't like us if we don't. The game usually takes out the # by itself if we reconnect or join another server, if we don't add that extra space.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, while #cri is older than Lunixmonster, I know for a fact it isn't older than the server itself- the server was the old Nanogridlock, which was up the second available. It was one of the first recognized servers, and frankly, would have been up even earlier being it was hosted by the first clan(eh, group more than competitive) for NS, Evolutionarily Challenged. And Lunixmonster itself came not long after anyway, because of some infighting in said clan. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting tidbit of history, that I did not know but then again I'm not a regular at LM so I guess I wouldn't know unless I did some info digging. EC was a pretty good server back then, visited a few times when I created the [NS4Life] club though I mostly played on the F.O.R server, aka Fists of Ra, a great bunch of PTers who have faded away from NS, sadly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't bash for getting banned. If they were permabanned, it was because they were being asshats- hence why there are a few #cri members still playing on Lunixmonster every once in a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well the few might've been killed off after what happened recently but I won't go into further detail since it was already mentioned about earlier.
<!--QuoteBegin-taft+Nov 9 2004, 12:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taft @ Nov 9 2004, 12:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hey dude go read your first post and subsequent posts after that
you've pointed out many great examples like the idea that pubbers don't listen to the evidence about why scripting isn't cheating, that pubbers seem to shut themselves off from the reality of competitive NS gameplay and strategies, that they can't seem to understand that good players don't use third party programs that play the game for them, et cetera.
i'm not sure how this entire thread doesn't ultimately boil down to a pubber vs clanner issue or why you are making frowny faces at my post <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have to do homework so this has to be quick I can make a bigger reply later....
It's not a pubber vs clanner thing and I'm sorry for using the term pubber. I should've said 'community'. Usually it's the whole community who support each other in their wrong viewpoints, and reject anything but their own view of the world. (see the marineshideout.URLHERE link)
That post is gone Nadagast, the <a href='http://marineshideout.nssource.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=154' target='_blank'>http://marineshideout.nssource.co.uk/forum...topic.php?t=154</a> post. Seems like one of their moderators nuked the whole post because it was evidence of their community's ignorance and it probably brought bad press to their community.
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 9 2004, 06:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 9 2004, 06:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Scylla+ Nov 9 2004, 12:13 PM --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Scylla @ Nov 9 2004, 12:13 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe you have problems to re-adept these rules and maybe you’re stucked in your play-to-win tactics. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll be the first to admit that I sometimes enjoyed a round on a map where I have lost but didn't feel bitter about the loss. Yes we had really good teamwork, made many valiant attempts to win, etc yet we still lost (and no this isn't limited to scrims/matches, hell some scrims/matches are worse than some pub games I've enjoyed). However, who starts the round thinking, "you know, I'm gonna try to lose this round". NS isn't based on losing... heck no games are I believe. Everyone wants to win, whether they want to admit or not, though its true some take losing differently than others. If someone joins a game who wants to lose, then they only hurt the team and will most definately **** people off who are on their team and are trying their best to win. I absolutely hate commanders who go, "Guess what, I'm not gonna try to win this game but I'll try to make it FUN." Fun? In your definition of fun maybe, maybe feeding your marines to aliens repeatedly is fun for you in some sadistic manner, but definately not fun for me.
At time's I've gone knife only, no shooting, because a lot of people have been crying 'stack! stack!' on the other team, handicapping myself on pubs just to give some balance. But then it ends up MY team being **** at me for not trying hard and winning for them, which I totally understand. So as you can see, winning may not be all that for you, but there are some others on your team who would hate to see someone purposely trying to lose because it makes them feel stupid and it wastes their time, not everyone has the time to play 20 games a day. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> People who absolutely want to win need to think about the reasons they play... do they play for fun , or do they play for some futile ego-boosting ?
This mentality is what killed 1.04 , by creating the JP HMG rush horror. Given enough time , lame players will bring any game to its knees by generalizing bug exploits , cheap tactics , anything that allows winning without any challenge , skill or effort. Even if the game is polished enough to prevent most lame behaviors , players will still take the least efforts route , repeatedly choosing the same option , no matter how slightly it is overpowered.
I presume you never played Rocket Crowbar. It is the antithesis of the competitive mod - noobs usually have the most kills. It needs discipline to be enjoyable , despite its wacky , chaotic theme. You need a reason to frag others , else that's gratuitous violence. This mod truly makes you ponder the sense of entertainment.
Reswhoring veterans are the ones to blame. They erode the fun in NS since 2.01 , my removing the teamwork's usefulness in winning : the best players show the bad example by playing for themselves , and pretending they help the team by killing marine after marine as fades , or spawnkilling skulk after skulk as marines. They help their team win , but they destroy the other team's and their own's fun. They destroy NS's purpose : to be a social game.
There are other ways to play the game. Skilled aliens can drop hives fast and let their entire team have fun with more abilities and upgrades. Skilled marines can give teamwork lessons by covering and leading squads of new players. Or they can assume command of the whole team and try original yet effective strategies.
Relocations are almost never as viable as normal strats , but they add variety to the game. It is a shame they are so rare , they can be great fun for both sides. Likewise , games where aliens take the time to form lerk / onos pairs to assault marine bases are refreshing and exciting , as opposed to the predictable early game fade wins. Nothing is funnier than gorge rushes led by skilled clanners.
Playing to win doesn't warrant a fun game. Make sure you always play for fun in one way or another.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 9 2004, 11:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 9 2004, 11:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Nov 9 2004, 12:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Nov 9 2004, 12:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also, many #cri members don't have spaces before their names. Hell, when I've played with you in the kindof-recent past, you didn't either, cause your name lined right up with everyone elses. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually we have to add a space in front of # when we input it in the console because the game won't like us if we don't. The game usually takes out the # by itself if we reconnect or join another server, if we don't add that extra space.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, while #cri is older than Lunixmonster, I know for a fact it isn't older than the server itself- the server was the old Nanogridlock, which was up the second available. It was one of the first recognized servers, and frankly, would have been up even earlier being it was hosted by the first clan(eh, group more than competitive) for NS, Evolutionarily Challenged. And Lunixmonster itself came not long after anyway, because of some infighting in said clan. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting tidbit of history, that I did not know but then again I'm not a regular at LM so I guess I wouldn't know unless I did some info digging. EC was a pretty good server back then, visited a few times when I created the [NS4Life] club though I mostly played on the F.O.R server, aka Fists of Ra, a great bunch of PTers who have faded away from NS, sadly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't bash for getting banned. If they were permabanned, it was because they were being asshats- hence why there are a few #cri members still playing on Lunixmonster every once in a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well the few might've been killed off after what happened recently but I won't go into further detail since it was already mentioned about earlier. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I'm surprised it wouldn't be listed differently. Maybe thats a problem within the scoreboard in HL.
And Forlorn, as to "Why the no adverting" thing, its probably because LB was the only one that knew about it. Notice the server owner, the only person to manage it, posted that. The others generally don't have experience running a server, and LB almost never plays on the server, but still sets the ground rules.
I've seen a specific clan member on LM quite a few times within the past 3 months. While nothing of the regular or scheduled variety, they definately were there several times, and I remember having quite the good time with them(being they were generally good natured).
As to #3, have you noticed Forlorn, the way you generally present yourself is in a very hostile tone? For a while there you were acting great, like you did long, long ago. And from what I've heard from the group that banned you, you DEFINATELY were being pretty....asshatted.
This just in: Most clan players you pubbies **** about are not actually in real clans and they are just a group of 13 year old kids who join a server to cause trouble. If you honestly believe that any person with a tag in their name is a haxor clanner you are horribly mistaken. I've admined a pub server from 1.04 on and all the stupid 'clanners' that cause trouble on the server are just 6 guys who join a server and join the same team and refuse to leave. You've probably never seen them in CAL or any other league and they just fool around in the way you dont like.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-Zephor+Nov 9 2004, 11:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zephor @ Nov 9 2004, 11:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This just in: Most clan players you pubbies **** about are not actually in real clans and they are just a group of 13 year old kids who join a server to cause trouble. If you honestly believe that any person with a tag in their name is a haxor clanner you are horribly mistaken. I've admined a pub server from 1.04 on and all the stupid 'clanners' that cause trouble on the server are just 6 guys who join a server and join the same team and refuse to leave. You've probably never seen them in CAL or any other league and they just fool around in the way you dont like. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If that was aimed at me, I've gotta laugh.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Nov 9 2004, 10:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Nov 9 2004, 10:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zephor+Nov 9 2004, 11:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zephor @ Nov 9 2004, 11:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This just in: Most clan players you pubbies **** about are not actually in real clans and they are just a group of 13 year old kids who join a server to cause trouble. If you honestly believe that any person with a tag in their name is a haxor clanner you are horribly mistaken. I've admined a pub server from 1.04 on and all the stupid 'clanners' that cause trouble on the server are just 6 guys who join a server and join the same team and refuse to leave. You've probably never seen them in CAL or any other league and they just fool around in the way you dont like. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If that was aimed at me, I've gotta laugh. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> it wasn't. Was just tossing my 2 cents.
<!--QuoteBegin-Stakhanov+Nov 9 2004, 01:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stakhanov @ Nov 9 2004, 01:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> People who absolutely want to win need to think about the reasons they play... do they play for fun , or do they play for some futile ego-boosting ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe I'm just wrong or I'm too dumb to understand but since when was playing for a loss a fun thing to do. Do highschool teams go into games going, "Hey, lets lose today because it's gonna be fun!" I mean do people really prefer doing long boring strats that almost always leads to a loss than playing games where the whole team is working together as a cohesive unit, taking ground and denying the other team victory, finally winning together as a team?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This mentality is what killed 1.04 , by creating the JP HMG rush horror. Given enough time , lame players will bring any game to its knees by generalizing bug exploits , cheap tactics , anything that allows winning without any challenge , skill or effort. Even if the game is polished enough to prevent most lame behaviors , players will still take the least efforts route , repeatedly choosing the same option , no matter how slightly it is overpowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played in that era, and yes I used JP/HMGs given to me to the best of my ability. Yes, I've actually won games by myself with a JP/HMG where I took down two of 3 hives that lead to a comeback, which MY team was ESTACTIC about, it was a LOT of fun coming back from an almost futile situation. I've also went around with a JP/Welder and welded various aliens to death on ns_nothing where we relocated to red room and everything was OCed off. With a comm showering meds on me while I went around welding skulks, gorges, lerks, alien RTs. Everyone had a blast despite it was... lame as you put it. However, I've seen a LOT of people try to do the JP/HMG thing to no avail, they usually get killed before reaching the hive, killed before doing any substantial damage to the hive so guess what, it wasn't as easy as you put it for everyone, it did require a little skill to avoid OCs, aliens, though my memory is a little fuzzy. But you're right, it was lame and unbalanced, skilled players really made this inbalance in the game shine and guess what, the Devs saw it and changed it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Reswhoring veterans are the ones to blame. They erode the fun in NS since 2.01 , my removing the teamwork's usefulness in winning : the best players show the bad example by playing for themselves , and pretending they help the team by killing marine after marine as fades , or spawnkilling skulk after skulk as marines. They help their team win , but they destroy the other team's and their own's fun. They destroy NS's purpose : to be a social game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The NS Purpose is a first person shooter game that pits players against each other for a common objective, the rid the other team from the map. It's not a social purpose people don't together for tea and fig newtons. They don't talk about the weather, how their job is going, how their classes are doing, how the kids are, how the wifey is doing. It's a game where you try to slaughter the other team, win through skill and unrelenting effort. Spawnkilling, why look at the aftermath of the problem and not the cause of the problem? Perhaps it's because the cause of the problem does not lie in the game, but in the players. They did not prevent the other team from completing their objective. They did not try and work together, to set up ambushes to keep the marines from entering their hive. They failed. Fades slaughtering entire marine teams, the marine team failed to obtain proper upgrades to prepare for the Fade's arrival, the failed to use squad teamwork to ambush the fade and kill him. You probably missed #cri vs dn playoff round 1. My support Fade, #cri.cket, got ambushed TWICE and was slaughtered by the marine ambush squad in seconds, just seconds. He died twice as a fade within minutes of each death, and that was a major blow to my team and the alien half. The game takes teamwork and skill, not social chitchat.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are other ways to play the game. Skilled aliens can drop hives fast and let their entire team have fun with more abilities and upgrades. Skilled marines can give teamwork lessons by covering and leading squads of new players. Or they can assume command of the whole team and try original yet effective strategies.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some of us <b>have</b> tried that! This thread is exactly what we're talking about right now! We've tried to assume command, we tried to teach, but the others just <b>won't</b> listen! They in-turn call you noobs, call you a hacking scriptor, call you a res ****. They choose not to listen and that is the core of the problem we are talking about.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Likewise , games where aliens take the time to form lerk / onos pairs to assault marine bases are refreshing and exciting , as opposed to the predictable early game fade wins. Nothing is funnier than gorge rushes led by skilled clanners.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have seen a lot of this on pubs where the alien team takes the time to listen to the more experienced players, setting up ambushed as asked for, dropping what is asked to be dropped, supporting the 'res ****' fades to that point. This also requires a 2nd ingrediant, an equally skilled marine team that works together. Which a lot of times do not exist because of ignorance or stacking.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Playing to win doesn't warrant a fun game. Make sure you always play for fun in one way or another.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very true and I totally agree, but playing to lose always makes it not fun for some people on your team while playing to win usually lets people have fun, gives them a sense of accomplishment that they built together with the team, helps them gain experience in the game because sometimes they see things that they never saw before and choose to learn, not outright reject with no valid reasons.
Comments
Maybe if NS was more popular, servers that did this would not have any players on them...
As for the masses being stupid, yeah -- that sounds about right. I voice_scale 0 all the time so I cant hear a thing and I just rambo off in classic (much like what you're complaining about now)
The community will not bend / shift to fit the context of the game, instead it will be the game that makes those changes. A new system where rambo'ing was quite useless (IE - maybe if there was someone of importantance to go once in a while, rather than having an TDM with a little annoyance called the commander) would greatly improve the gameplay.
The rift has just gotten bigger since that time. Yes there are alot of nice and helpful clanners but also the same amount of ignorant and disrespectful clanners too. Remember one disrespectful person can ruin everything for his/her own race/kin/group (whattever you want to call it).
Dont be surprised if it never changes. Best thing to do is to take the vet signs away and when pubbing drop the tag, yes i said drop the tag (its a sin). Sometimes you have to give some to gain some.,
Peace and Chicken Grease
Turtle <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to agree.
...but I hope it does change because it is real frik'n tragedy that clanners and vets can't/don't mix with regular pubbers or casual players.
I saw a thread on here making a funny statement how the role-playing forum is more active then the clan recruiting forum... funny as it was I think it is a direct result of the divide between clanners/vets and pubbers in this community.
If <i>anyone</i> is still arguing one group is more important then the other group I invite them off their ferris wheel of logic so I can smack them with my backhand of reality.
<u>Pubbers need Clanners/Vets</u>
They push the boundries of NS strategy and gameplay-wise which helps develope NS
They introduce and innovate strategy for pub play
Showcasing talent they attract attention and create"superstar" advertisers to draw new players
They can help;
newbies become pubbers -> pubbers become regs -> regs become clanners -> clanners become vets
<u>Clanners need Pubbers</u>
Simply put: They are your fans
They are where new talent can develop which sustains and helps the clan scene grow
They form the largest group of "advertisers" which introduce new players to NS
They form the biggest group of players in the community
It's like one big frik'n circle of life.
I'm glad this thread was created. It took guts for someone to bring up a potentially divisive problem that really hurts NS but no one talks about. One of the reasons I lost interest in NS is because Pubbing Classic was full of uncreative, boring, strategies that became painful 45+ minute stalemates without an end in sight. I believe it was because regs/clanner/vets became less involved and less interested in pubs and the benefit of their insight and cutting edge strategies didn't "trickle-down" into pub severs. I believe this thread addresses a problem for <i>both</i> Clanners and Pubbers equally.
<i><b>**The rest of this stuff is opinion**</b></i>
We may never be able to quantify the relationship between Clanners and Pubbers but I believe Clanners cannot exist without Pubbers, and without Clanners the game will grow stale and slowly sufficate the number of Pubbers.
<!--QuoteBegin-SentrySteve+ Nov 9 2004, 07:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SentrySteve @ Nov 9 2004, 07:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe if NS was more popular, servers that did this would not have any players on them...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shortest post by Forlorn ever??!?? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don't buy into the whole clan vs. pubbers issue. If you're a good player, AND you respect others, I like playing on the same server. But when someone is asked to do something to abide by the rules, and refuses stating "I don't want ot ruin this score", then I have no use for you on my team, you are not benefitting us in any way.
Also, if you have certain issues with a community, wouldn't it be fitting to actually GO to that community first before advertising how ignorant and backwards they are to the whole community?
...
Yep, it is right to go to that community first, but then you get replies like this from the Lunixmonster Forums Discussions.
<a href='http://www.lunixmonster.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2242&st=0' target='_blank'>Quoted thread below.</a>
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Nov 8 2004, 01:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Nov 8 2004, 01:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<!--QuoteBegin-TheAdj+Nov 8 2004, 01:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheAdj @ Nov 8 2004, 01:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
LM bans people for what most competitive players would see as unreasonable rules
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well thats their problem. To put it moderately bluntly, if someone doesn't like it, they can get lost. Buy their own server and make their own rules. We're all here at LB's pleasure, and what he says goes. Welcome to private property.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People who go overboard to try to stand up for the server owner/admins to get free brownie points, when he blatantly chooses to ignore the rest of Adj's posts which were very valid, only picking and choosing lines that fit his hardcore response.
Why? Because as it is, LM has a reputation as being "One of the Best" when it comes to pubbing servers. Hell, I've gone onto hundreds of different servers, and still haven't found one as high quality as LM. But I still disagree with the rules.
LM is a pub server that yes, despite what you say Rad4Christ(aka, tim), uses redundant strats. Hell, I can't count the number of times we've sieged cargo from the west side hallway, always trying to get a phase there. The other side? I've never seen it done once. Every map has strats that we use almost exclusively, and it always ends up coming down to player aiming/skillatkillingasanalien quality more than quality of the commander, which is sad, because commanding is easy enough as it is(hell, I can do it!).
As for Necrotic's post, I love Adj's reply.
<!--QuoteBegin-TheAdj+Nov 8 2004, 04:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheAdj @ Nov 8 2004, 04:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Nov 8 2004, 01:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Nov 8 2004, 01:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->LM bans people for what most competitive players would see as unreasonable rules
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well thats their problem. To put it moderately bluntly, if someone doesn't like it, they can get lost. Buy their own server and make their own rules. We're all here at LB's pleasure, and what he says goes. Welcome to private property.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're real quick to quote my first line but not the two that follow it. Please continue your usual line-by-line refutation (which negates the effect of spreading a thought over multiple lines, thereby taking only PART of what was said, which is very convenient for you, isn't it?). Saying "This is the rule, there is no discussion on it (on the MESSAGE BOARD, where such discussion is meant to take place), if you don't like it leave" is the easiest way to avoid talking about something for whatever reason. That gives you reason to do whatever you want because "I'm the admin and I say so, and you can't argue with me at all". Since LM seems to think of itself, rightly or not, as an important pub, what does it say about the community when rules can't be discussed "Because if people don't like it they can leave". I'm sure there is a logical fallacy in that, I simply can't find it yet.
[right][snapback]33044[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rules, while not meant to be broken, are meant to be challenged, so that they stay true to the game.
I'm just glad to find out that the # sign affects adminmod. I had no idea. GG suckysoftware!
not only did it inevitably pop up another discussion about scripts in NS, but it wasn't a very prominant issue in the first place.. the issue of pubbers vs clanners in NS has existed for a very long time and cannot be remedied due to unshared interests among different players
accept that they are ignorant because <u>they want to be</u>.. if you get banned, move on <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's not an issue of clanners vs pubbers jesus
it's about ignorant communities and their promotion of bad ideas <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hey dude go read your first post and subsequent posts after that
you've pointed out many great examples like the idea that pubbers don't listen to the evidence about why scripting isn't cheating, that pubbers seem to shut themselves off from the reality of competitive NS gameplay and strategies, that they can't seem to understand that good players don't use third party programs that play the game for them, et cetera.
i'm not sure how this entire thread doesn't ultimately boil down to a pubber vs clanner issue or why you are making frowny faces at my post <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yes … there are ignorant pubbers but many clanners are the same way. On my server the major group making trouble are clanners. We had so many clanner just joining the server saving up for Fade getting some frags and if they’re going again Fade or if they don’t have the resources they quit. Also what’s about whining and flaming and insulting the admin the clanner are the lead group. That’s why some pubbers don’t like clanner and act ignorant.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Nov 7 2004, 05:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Nov 7 2004, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All I wanted was a reasonable discussion or even a reason why they block scripts. The best they can give me is "we have decided to block scripts". Yet they decided based on what? Urban legends of what scripts can do? I'd bet a thousand dollars that the admins that made this decision were horribly uninformed. Every person who has been educated about scripts has no problem with them. Now, scripts aren't the point of this post, so please don't reply as to whatever your feelings are about them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I must agree with you that an administrator should be able to argue his decisions and there are arguments for activating blockscripts. On my servers it’s not activated.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Nov 7 2004, 05:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Nov 7 2004, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The point is that these pub communities (for the most part, NSA and FAT have converted and I commend them) are so intolerant of anything other than their nice pubbing buddies in their community, that it's stifling clan play. Also, these communities are typically ones where terrible strats are used on both teams and it leads to terribly boring gameplay (OC farm vs Turret Farm). They think that a pub is the pinnacle of teamplay, and typically (hypocritically) accuse clanners of being rambos who use no teamwork... when this could not be further from the truth. Clan play is the real top of teamwork, … snipped …<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Newbie’s whine – Veterans adept (even pub team play). Team play on pubs is not the same thing like your scrims. There are different rules. Maybe you have problems to re-adept these rules and maybe you’re stucked in your play-to-win tactics.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Nov 7 2004, 05:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Nov 7 2004, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So that's why I posted here. To attempt to convert some of the most hardcore anti-clan/script/rambo people... I guess all I really want is an open-minded discussion, I'm confident if you see the evidence you'll be swayed =)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It’s up onto you to change this. Don’t await respect only because of your vet icon or clan tag. In a community you have to earn your respect. Elite isn’t only about being a very good player, it’s about appearance and showing respect to others.
But I sign your request to not judge players on their clan tags or their icons but on what they say and do.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because the ignorant community doesn't just limit itself to pubbers and pubs, there are also clanning communities who feel the same because they don't understand issues like scripts, aren't educated in issues like scripts, choose not to be educated in issues like scripts. Though this clanning community is mostly outside of the US clanning community, I won't go into it further than that.
<!--QuoteBegin-Scylla+ Nov 9 2004, 12:13 PM --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Scylla @ Nov 9 2004, 12:13 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Maybe you have problems to re-adept these rules and maybe you’re stucked in your play-to-win tactics.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll be the first to admit that I sometimes enjoyed a round on a map where I have lost but didn't feel bitter about the loss. Yes we had really good teamwork, made many valiant attempts to win, etc yet we still lost (and no this isn't limited to scrims/matches, hell some scrims/matches are worse than some pub games I've enjoyed). However, who starts the round thinking, "you know, I'm gonna try to lose this round". NS isn't based on losing... heck no games are I believe. Everyone wants to win, whether they want to admit or not, though its true some take losing differently than others. If someone joins a game who wants to lose, then they only hurt the team and will most definately **** people off who are on their team and are trying their best to win. I absolutely hate commanders who go, "Guess what, I'm not gonna try to win this game but I'll try to make it FUN." Fun? In your definition of fun maybe, maybe feeding your marines to aliens repeatedly is fun for you in some sadistic manner, but definately not fun for me.
At time's I've gone knife only, no shooting, because a lot of people have been crying 'stack! stack!' on the other team, handicapping myself on pubs just to give some balance. But then it ends up MY team being **** at me for not trying hard and winning for them, which I totally understand. So as you can see, winning may not be all that for you, but there are some others on your team who would hate to see someone purposely trying to lose because it makes them feel stupid and it wastes their time, not everyone has the time to play 20 games a day.
Firstly, in defense of the response of the admin and community on our forums, I'd like to say that <b>Nadagast</b>, while he has brought up some excellent points of discussion, he's just as inflexible as the community and admin he argues against. I suppose it's not possible any other way, as there really is no "mp_blockscripts 0.5" option, but by adopting what I smell as <i>condescension</i> he's not winning himself any friends over there.
Pubs vs. competitive play. I've done a few #nspug games before, and I see very clearly how it is different. Face it, competitive and casual play are two sides of the NS coin; joined by their substrate (the excellent NS mod), but diametrically opposite in view and practices. <b>Nadagast</b>, you don't seem to understand that we play <i>for fun</i>. Not that we are unskilled (I have a feeling that you're pulling your impression of our gameplay from some random time you joined and tested it out; come play with us late-night, when the regs and the admins are on, and you will see pub-style teamwork), but that our playing style is different. We play not for competition, but for enjoyment.
What are you trying to do? It seems from what I've read of your posts, that you're out to "educate" us and make us "see the light". In which case, you're not really interested in a compromise, you're out to see that it's done <i>your way</i>. In which case, drop the pretense of debate. Now. You cast us in a light of being stone-willed and inflexible, but you yourself <i>are no better</i>, and by pretending otherwise, are worse.
Why? Because as it is, LM has a reputation as being "One of the Best" when it comes to pubbing servers. Hell, I've gone onto hundreds of different servers, and still haven't found one as high quality as LM. But I still disagree with the rules.
LM is a pub server that yes, despite what you say Rad4Christ(aka, tim), uses redundant strats. Hell, I can't count the number of times we've sieged cargo from the west side hallway, always trying to get a phase there. The other side? I've never seen it done once. Every map has strats that we use almost exclusively, and it always ends up coming down to player aiming/skillatkillingasanalien quality more than quality of the commander, which is sad, because commanding is easy enough as it is(hell, I can do it!).
As for Necrotic's post, I love Adj's reply.
<!--QuoteBegin-TheAdj+Nov 8 2004, 04:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheAdj @ Nov 8 2004, 04:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Nov 8 2004, 01:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Nov 8 2004, 01:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->LM bans people for what most competitive players would see as unreasonable rules
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well thats their problem. To put it moderately bluntly, if someone doesn't like it, they can get lost. Buy their own server and make their own rules. We're all here at LB's pleasure, and what he says goes. Welcome to private property.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're real quick to quote my first line but not the two that follow it. Please continue your usual line-by-line refutation (which negates the effect of spreading a thought over multiple lines, thereby taking only PART of what was said, which is very convenient for you, isn't it?). Saying "This is the rule, there is no discussion on it (on the MESSAGE BOARD, where such discussion is meant to take place), if you don't like it leave" is the easiest way to avoid talking about something for whatever reason. That gives you reason to do whatever you want because "I'm the admin and I say so, and you can't argue with me at all". Since LM seems to think of itself, rightly or not, as an important pub, what does it say about the community when rules can't be discussed "Because if people don't like it they can leave". I'm sure there is a logical fallacy in that, I simply can't find it yet.
[right][snapback]33044[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rules, while not meant to be broken, are meant to be challenged, so that they stay true to the game.
I'm just glad to find out that the # sign affects adminmod. I had no idea. GG suckysoftware! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href='http://www.lunixmonster.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2242&view=findpost&p=33091' target='_blank'>Read</a> my reply, I'm pretty skeptical that whole '#' is bad for the server thing is true.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes … there are ignorant pubbers but many clanners are the same way. On my server the major group making trouble are clanners. We had so many clanner just joining the server saving up for Fade getting some frags and if they’re going again Fade or if they don’t have the resources they quit. Also what’s about whining and flaming and insulting the admin the clanner are the lead group. That’s why some pubbers don’t like clanner and act ignorant.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow! Since when is going fade bad?
One of the #1 thing that irks me about your pub is that they think they know how to play the game, and 9 times out of 10 they are wrong.
You can even politely explain to them with text:
"Actually we need fades to combat the marine's effective, esp. if they use static defenses"
"Forlorn, go fade and get banned"
<3 pubs
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Pubs vs. competitive play. I've done a few #nspug games before, and I see very clearly how it is different. Face it, competitive and casual play are two sides of the NS coin; joined by their substrate (the excellent NS mod), but diametrically opposite in view and practices. Nadagast, you don't seem to understand that we play for fun. Not that we are unskilled (I have a feeling that you're pulling your impression of our gameplay from some random time you joined and tested it out; come play with us late-night, when the regs and the admins are on, and you will see pub-style teamwork), but that our playing style is different. We play not for competition, but for enjoyment.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, you play to win. That is the only point to the game and that's what makes it fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What are you trying to do? It seems from what I've read of your posts, that you're out to "educate" us and make us "see the light". In which case, you're not really interested in a compromise, you're out to see that it's done your way. In which case, drop the pretense of debate. Now. You cast us in a light of being stone-willed and inflexible, but you yourself are no better, and by pretending otherwise, are worse.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See, we've already seen your side of the issue, then we name a counter point.
Do we ever get a counter point past that? Hell no. It almost always stops there. Community admins never compromise or listen.
Hence, the ignorance is on the communities part.
In which case, you're not really interested in a compromise, you're out to see that it's done your way.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no "his way" or "Nadagast's Superway", perhaps you're confusing "his way" for some admins or server owners with Nadagast because he's not saying, "Do it MY way or NS is gonna die!"
He's trying to show that a good amount, perhaps even majority, of the NS Community right now is slowly stifling the game and the way the game was heading towards. A lot of players are starting to block off any attempts at helping them understand the game better, understand the different and more effective strategies better, and understand the way stuff like scripts work. They choose instead to ignore that, either creating an image that they are lies and untruths, or being told otherwise. Which in turn creates more misinformation to spread about various tactics, strategies, scripting issues, etc. That is what is the subject at hand here, not some mysterious way of Nadagast's where a wave of his hand will right every wrong because he had his way.
In which case, you're not really interested in a compromise, you're out to see that it's done your way.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no "his way" or "Nadagast's Superway", perhaps you're confusing "his way" for some admins or server owners with Nadagast because he's not saying, "Do it MY way or NS is gonna die!"
He's trying to show that a good amount, perhaps even majority, of the NS Community right now is slowly stifling the game and the way the game was heading towards. A lot of players are starting to block off any attempts at helping them understand the game better, understand the different and more effective strategies better, and understand the way stuff like scripts work. They choose instead to ignore that, either creating an image that they are lies and untruths, or being told otherwise. Which in turn creates more misinformation to spread about various tactics, strategies, scripting issues, etc. That is what is the subject at hand here, not some mysterious way of Nadagast's where a wave of his hand will right every wrong because he had his way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yes, Nadagast speaks for just about every single clanner atm right now.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lightning Blue+Nov 9 2004, 08:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lightning Blue @ Nov 9 2004, 08:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'll poke my head in here cause I am bored and say the no <b>#</b> sign in names is because it messes adminmod/hlds up at times.
Other then that, I am happy people are enjoying thier community.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh that's cool because you never tell anyone who gets banned with the # mark as to why
Furthermore I can't imagine how it would screw things up considering every #cri member has their name spelt with a space first.
" #cri.sano"
See the space? You can't start your name with the <b>#</b>, not even steam allows that.
Sounds like a **** poor excuse to perma ban a clan if you ask me
I've been perma banned from the lunixmonster server ever since I just went on with my #cri tag (which I am not longer a part of).
So yeah call whatever whatever but the bottem line is you use bull^^ excuses to perma ban people. (I was also banned from the old lunixmonster server back on the WON system when I lmg'ed some dude named Insane who was fading, he claimed I exploited the models)
Btw #cri is probably 2 times as old as the LM server, last veteran clan and look at the respect you guys give (read: :rolleyes: )
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2 down (NSA, [FAT])
Many many more to go (lunixmonster, voogru, pgc clan, etc. etc.)
The truth spreads eventually, but it takes time... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This original quote goes along nicely with Nadagast's "culture of ignorance"
Your community and server promotes the culture, and untill you guys learn you will always continue to promote it.
Congrats for making this thread Necrosis, I'm sure 100 people have seen it due to the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84913&view=findpost&p=1323111' target='_blank'>link</a> on the NS forums, and showing an excellent example of why this community is ignorant and needs a change. Your example isn't quite as bad as the other ones but fits the bill nicely.
Much <3 Necrosis, you really helped my causes out!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Keep embarressing yourself, my friend.
First off, LB has managed more servers than most in this community. If he says adminmod has a problem with it, <b>admin mod has a problem with it.</b> Spaces, if you didn't know, screw up a lot of things anyway.
Also, many #cri members don't have spaces before their names. Hell, when I've played with you in the kindof-recent past, you didn't either, cause your name lined right up with everyone elses.
I agree that a perma ban for something like that isn't good, but guess what: They weren't! Timeban my friend. You got kicked because you frequently act like an asshat- the same reason most of the people in the community don't like you. I myself have given you lots of chances, and have even fought for you a few times, without you caring much anyway.
While LM is a bit ignorant in this, you yourself have no right to speak as if you are devoid of any sins in that regard. You seem to have the attitude that pubbers simply don't amount to anything- which definately isn't true, as many other clanners can confirm.
Also, one thing I find funny, is how you insult pubbers so blatantly stupidly. You say they don't know how to play the game- sure, telling someone their a res-**** for going fade early definately isn't right, but almost all of the time, there are different ways to play the game, contrary to what you seem to think Forlorn. Hence the reason the pubbers vs. clanners conversation came up- THEY PLAY THE GAME DIFFERENTLY! Thats not to say that either side is correct, but that different styles for different people!
Also, while #cri is older than Lunixmonster, I know for a fact it isn't older than the server itself- the server was the old Nanogridlock, which was up the second available. It was one of the first recognized servers, and frankly, would have been up even earlier being it was hosted by the first clan(eh, group more than competitive) for NS, Evolutionarily Challenged. And Lunixmonster itself came not long after anyway, because of some infighting in said clan.
Don't bash for getting banned. If they were permabanned, it was because they were being asshats- hence why there are a few #cri members still playing on Lunixmonster every once in a while.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lightning Blue+Nov 9 2004, 08:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lightning Blue @ Nov 9 2004, 08:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'll poke my head in here cause I am bored and say the no <b>#</b> sign in names is because it messes adminmod/hlds up at times.
Other then that, I am happy people are enjoying thier community.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh that's cool because you never tell anyone who gets banned with the # mark as to why
Furthermore I can't imagine how it would screw things up considering every #cri member has their name spelt with a space first.
" #cri.sano"
See the space? You can't start your name with the <b>#</b>, not even steam allows that.
Sounds like a **** poor excuse to perma ban a clan if you ask me
I've been perma banned from the lunixmonster server ever since I just went on with my #cri tag (which I am not longer a part of).
So yeah call whatever whatever but the bottem line is you use bull^^ excuses to perma ban people. (I was also banned from the old lunixmonster server back on the WON system when I lmg'ed some dude named Insane who was fading, he claimed I exploited the models)
Btw #cri is probably 2 times as old as the LM server, last veteran clan and look at the respect you guys give (read: :rolleyes: )
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2 down (NSA, [FAT])
Many many more to go (lunixmonster, voogru, pgc clan, etc. etc.)
The truth spreads eventually, but it takes time... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This original quote goes along nicely with Nadagast's "culture of ignorance"
Your community and server promotes the culture, and untill you guys learn you will always continue to promote it.
Congrats for making this thread Necrosis, I'm sure 100 people have seen it due to the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84913&view=findpost&p=1323111' target='_blank'>link</a> on the NS forums, and showing an excellent example of why this community is ignorant and needs a change. Your example isn't quite as bad as the other ones but fits the bill nicely.
Much <3 Necrosis, you really helped my causes out!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Keep embarressing yourself, my friend.
First off, LB has managed more servers than most in this community. If he says adminmod has a problem with it, <b>admin mod has a problem with it.</b> Spaces, if you didn't know, screw up a lot of things anyway.
Also, many #cri members don't have spaces before their names. Hell, when I've played with you in the kindof-recent past, you didn't either, cause your name lined right up with everyone elses.
I agree that a perma ban for something like that isn't good, but guess what: They weren't! Timeban my friend. You got kicked because you frequently act like an asshat- the same reason most of the people in the community don't like you. I myself have given you lots of chances, and have even fought for you a few times, without you caring much anyway.
While LM is a bit ignorant in this, you yourself have no right to speak as if you are devoid of any sins in that regard. You seem to have the attitude that pubbers simply don't amount to anything- which definately isn't true, as many other clanners can confirm.
Also, one thing I find funny, is how you insult pubbers so blatantly stupidly. You say they don't know how to play the game- sure, telling someone their a res-**** for going fade early definately isn't right, but almost all of the time, there are different ways to play the game, contrary to what you seem to think Forlorn. Hence the reason the pubbers vs. clanners conversation came up- THEY PLAY THE GAME DIFFERENTLY! Thats not to say that either side is correct, but that different styles for different people!
Also, while #cri is older than Lunixmonster, I know for a fact it isn't older than the server itself- the server was the old Nanogridlock, which was up the second available. It was one of the first recognized servers, and frankly, would have been up even earlier being it was hosted by the first clan(eh, group more than competitive) for NS, Evolutionarily Challenged. And Lunixmonster itself came not long after anyway, because of some infighting in said clan.
Don't bash for getting banned. If they were permabanned, it was because they were being asshats- hence why there are a few #cri members still playing on Lunixmonster every once in a while. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are niave if you believe this.
1. Why doesn't the rules state that # screws up the plugins instead of no advirtising? I mean I'd still get kicked for www.google.com or whatever so it doens't make sense.
2. There are no #cri members that play there from time to time. Sano and MrGunner just decided to go there and see what happens, and somehow I do not think they were surprised.
3. No one was ever being an asshat. When I was banned, the most insulting thing I did was ask 'why', not that I actually cared.
4. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While LM is a bit ignorant in this, you yourself have no right to speak as if you are devoid of any sins in that regard. You seem to have the attitude that pubbers simply don't amount to anything- which definately isn't true, as many other clanners can confirm.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Prove that.
5. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, while #cri is older than Lunixmonster, I know for a fact it isn't older than the server itself- the server was the old Nanogridlock, which was up the second available. It was one of the first recognized servers, and frankly, would have been up even earlier being it was hosted by the first clan(eh, group more than competitive) for NS, Evolutionarily Challenged. And Lunixmonster itself came not long after anyway, because of some infighting in said clan.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Small history, everyone played on the nanogridlock from what I hear, when it became the lunixmonster it became the monster culture of ignorance back in 2.0, and slowly got a bit bitter but still remains a bit wrong today.
6. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but that different styles for different people!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't something of "understanding" or being "considerate". We all play the same game and there are definately most efficient ways to play it. When I play other games and some clanner gives me some advice I tell him
"Okay, I'll give it a try."
Now why can't these people give it a try? It's just a game! You should try everything, right? (read: I-g-n-o-r-a-n-c-e)
Pubbers hump it and dump it half the time, you cannot rely on that to keep a game alive.
Actually we have to add a space in front of # when we input it in the console because the game won't like us if we don't. The game usually takes out the # by itself if we reconnect or join another server, if we don't add that extra space.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, while #cri is older than Lunixmonster, I know for a fact it isn't older than the server itself- the server was the old Nanogridlock, which was up the second available. It was one of the first recognized servers, and frankly, would have been up even earlier being it was hosted by the first clan(eh, group more than competitive) for NS, Evolutionarily Challenged. And Lunixmonster itself came not long after anyway, because of some infighting in said clan.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting tidbit of history, that I did not know but then again I'm not a regular at LM so I guess I wouldn't know unless I did some info digging. EC was a pretty good server back then, visited a few times when I created the [NS4Life] club though I mostly played on the F.O.R server, aka Fists of Ra, a great bunch of PTers who have faded away from NS, sadly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't bash for getting banned. If they were permabanned, it was because they were being asshats- hence why there are a few #cri members still playing on Lunixmonster every once in a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well the few might've been killed off after what happened recently but I won't go into further detail since it was already mentioned about earlier.
you've pointed out many great examples like the idea that pubbers don't listen to the evidence about why scripting isn't cheating, that pubbers seem to shut themselves off from the reality of competitive NS gameplay and strategies, that they can't seem to understand that good players don't use third party programs that play the game for them, et cetera.
i'm not sure how this entire thread doesn't ultimately boil down to a pubber vs clanner issue or why you are making frowny faces at my post <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to do homework so this has to be quick I can make a bigger reply later....
It's not a pubber vs clanner thing and I'm sorry for using the term pubber. I should've said 'community'. Usually it's the whole community who support each other in their wrong viewpoints, and reject anything but their own view of the world. (see the marineshideout.URLHERE link)
Maybe you have problems to re-adept these rules and maybe you’re stucked in your play-to-win tactics.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll be the first to admit that I sometimes enjoyed a round on a map where I have lost but didn't feel bitter about the loss. Yes we had really good teamwork, made many valiant attempts to win, etc yet we still lost (and no this isn't limited to scrims/matches, hell some scrims/matches are worse than some pub games I've enjoyed). However, who starts the round thinking, "you know, I'm gonna try to lose this round". NS isn't based on losing... heck no games are I believe. Everyone wants to win, whether they want to admit or not, though its true some take losing differently than others. If someone joins a game who wants to lose, then they only hurt the team and will most definately **** people off who are on their team and are trying their best to win. I absolutely hate commanders who go, "Guess what, I'm not gonna try to win this game but I'll try to make it FUN." Fun? In your definition of fun maybe, maybe feeding your marines to aliens repeatedly is fun for you in some sadistic manner, but definately not fun for me.
At time's I've gone knife only, no shooting, because a lot of people have been crying 'stack! stack!' on the other team, handicapping myself on pubs just to give some balance. But then it ends up MY team being **** at me for not trying hard and winning for them, which I totally understand. So as you can see, winning may not be all that for you, but there are some others on your team who would hate to see someone purposely trying to lose because it makes them feel stupid and it wastes their time, not everyone has the time to play 20 games a day. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
People who absolutely want to win need to think about the reasons they play... do they play for fun , or do they play for some futile ego-boosting ?
This mentality is what killed 1.04 , by creating the JP HMG rush horror. Given enough time , lame players will bring any game to its knees by generalizing bug exploits , cheap tactics , anything that allows winning without any challenge , skill or effort. Even if the game is polished enough to prevent most lame behaviors , players will still take the least efforts route , repeatedly choosing the same option , no matter how slightly it is overpowered.
I presume you never played Rocket Crowbar. It is the antithesis of the competitive mod - noobs usually have the most kills. It needs discipline to be enjoyable , despite its wacky , chaotic theme. You need a reason to frag others , else that's gratuitous violence. This mod truly makes you ponder the sense of entertainment.
Reswhoring veterans are the ones to blame. They erode the fun in NS since 2.01 , my removing the teamwork's usefulness in winning : the best players show the bad example by playing for themselves , and pretending they help the team by killing marine after marine as fades , or spawnkilling skulk after skulk as marines. They help their team win , but they destroy the other team's and their own's fun. They destroy NS's purpose : to be a social game.
There are other ways to play the game. Skilled aliens can drop hives fast and let their entire team have fun with more abilities and upgrades. Skilled marines can give teamwork lessons by covering and leading squads of new players. Or they can assume command of the whole team and try original yet effective strategies.
Relocations are almost never as viable as normal strats , but they add variety to the game. It is a shame they are so rare , they can be great fun for both sides.
Likewise , games where aliens take the time to form lerk / onos pairs to assault marine bases are refreshing and exciting , as opposed to the predictable early game fade wins. Nothing is funnier than gorge rushes led by skilled clanners.
Playing to win doesn't warrant a fun game. Make sure you always play for fun in one way or another.
Actually we have to add a space in front of # when we input it in the console because the game won't like us if we don't. The game usually takes out the # by itself if we reconnect or join another server, if we don't add that extra space.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, while #cri is older than Lunixmonster, I know for a fact it isn't older than the server itself- the server was the old Nanogridlock, which was up the second available. It was one of the first recognized servers, and frankly, would have been up even earlier being it was hosted by the first clan(eh, group more than competitive) for NS, Evolutionarily Challenged. And Lunixmonster itself came not long after anyway, because of some infighting in said clan.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting tidbit of history, that I did not know but then again I'm not a regular at LM so I guess I wouldn't know unless I did some info digging. EC was a pretty good server back then, visited a few times when I created the [NS4Life] club though I mostly played on the F.O.R server, aka Fists of Ra, a great bunch of PTers who have faded away from NS, sadly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't bash for getting banned. If they were permabanned, it was because they were being asshats- hence why there are a few #cri members still playing on Lunixmonster every once in a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well the few might've been killed off after what happened recently but I won't go into further detail since it was already mentioned about earlier. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I'm surprised it wouldn't be listed differently. Maybe thats a problem within the scoreboard in HL.
And Forlorn, as to "Why the no adverting" thing, its probably because LB was the only one that knew about it. Notice the server owner, the only person to manage it, posted that. The others generally don't have experience running a server, and LB almost never plays on the server, but still sets the ground rules.
I've seen a specific clan member on LM quite a few times within the past 3 months. While nothing of the regular or scheduled variety, they definately were there several times, and I remember having quite the good time with them(being they were generally good natured).
As to #3, have you noticed Forlorn, the way you generally present yourself is in a very hostile tone? For a while there you were acting great, like you did long, long ago. And from what I've heard from the group that banned you, you DEFINATELY were being pretty....asshatted.
And to #5: Ask the community!
If that was aimed at me, I've gotta laugh.
If that was aimed at me, I've gotta laugh. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
it wasn't. Was just tossing my 2 cents.
Maybe I'm just wrong or I'm too dumb to understand but since when was playing for a loss a fun thing to do. Do highschool teams go into games going, "Hey, lets lose today because it's gonna be fun!" I mean do people really prefer doing long boring strats that almost always leads to a loss than playing games where the whole team is working together as a cohesive unit, taking ground and denying the other team victory, finally winning together as a team?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This mentality is what killed 1.04 , by creating the JP HMG rush horror. Given enough time , lame players will bring any game to its knees by generalizing bug exploits , cheap tactics , anything that allows winning without any challenge , skill or effort. Even if the game is polished enough to prevent most lame behaviors , players will still take the least efforts route , repeatedly choosing the same option , no matter how slightly it is overpowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played in that era, and yes I used JP/HMGs given to me to the best of my ability. Yes, I've actually won games by myself with a JP/HMG where I took down two of 3 hives that lead to a comeback, which MY team was ESTACTIC about, it was a LOT of fun coming back from an almost futile situation. I've also went around with a JP/Welder and welded various aliens to death on ns_nothing where we relocated to red room and everything was OCed off. With a comm showering meds on me while I went around welding skulks, gorges, lerks, alien RTs. Everyone had a blast despite it was... lame as you put it. However, I've seen a LOT of people try to do the JP/HMG thing to no avail, they usually get killed before reaching the hive, killed before doing any substantial damage to the hive so guess what, it wasn't as easy as you put it for everyone, it did require a little skill to avoid OCs, aliens, though my memory is a little fuzzy. But you're right, it was lame and unbalanced, skilled players really made this inbalance in the game shine and guess what, the Devs saw it and changed it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Reswhoring veterans are the ones to blame. They erode the fun in NS since 2.01 , my removing the teamwork's usefulness in winning : the best players show the bad example by playing for themselves , and pretending they help the team by killing marine after marine as fades , or spawnkilling skulk after skulk as marines. They help their team win , but they destroy the other team's and their own's fun. They destroy NS's purpose : to be a social game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The NS Purpose is a first person shooter game that pits players against each other for a common objective, the rid the other team from the map. It's not a social purpose people don't together for tea and fig newtons. They don't talk about the weather, how their job is going, how their classes are doing, how the kids are, how the wifey is doing. It's a game where you try to slaughter the other team, win through skill and unrelenting effort. Spawnkilling, why look at the aftermath of the problem and not the cause of the problem? Perhaps it's because the cause of the problem does not lie in the game, but in the players. They did not prevent the other team from completing their objective. They did not try and work together, to set up ambushes to keep the marines from entering their hive. They failed. Fades slaughtering entire marine teams, the marine team failed to obtain proper upgrades to prepare for the Fade's arrival, the failed to use squad teamwork to ambush the fade and kill him. You probably missed #cri vs dn playoff round 1. My support Fade, #cri.cket, got ambushed TWICE and was slaughtered by the marine ambush squad in seconds, just seconds. He died twice as a fade within minutes of each death, and that was a major blow to my team and the alien half. The game takes teamwork and skill, not social chitchat.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are other ways to play the game. Skilled aliens can drop hives fast and let their entire team have fun with more abilities and upgrades. Skilled marines can give teamwork lessons by covering and leading squads of new players. Or they can assume command of the whole team and try original yet effective strategies.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some of us <b>have</b> tried that! This thread is exactly what we're talking about right now! We've tried to assume command, we tried to teach, but the others just <b>won't</b> listen! They in-turn call you noobs, call you a hacking scriptor, call you a res ****. They choose not to listen and that is the core of the problem we are talking about.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Likewise , games where aliens take the time to form lerk / onos pairs to assault marine bases are refreshing and exciting , as opposed to the predictable early game fade wins. Nothing is funnier than gorge rushes led by skilled clanners.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have seen a lot of this on pubs where the alien team takes the time to listen to the more experienced players, setting up ambushed as asked for, dropping what is asked to be dropped, supporting the 'res ****' fades to that point. This also requires a 2nd ingrediant, an equally skilled marine team that works together. Which a lot of times do not exist because of ignorance or stacking.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Playing to win doesn't warrant a fun game. Make sure you always play for fun in one way or another.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very true and I totally agree, but playing to lose always makes it not fun for some people on your team while playing to win usually lets people have fun, gives them a sense of accomplishment that they built together with the team, helps them gain experience in the game because sometimes they see things that they never saw before and choose to learn, not outright reject with no valid reasons.