<!--QuoteBegin-BlueNovember+Nov 5 2004, 07:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlueNovember @ Nov 5 2004, 07:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-jammno+Nov 5 2004, 06:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jammno @ Nov 5 2004, 06:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-WildChicken+Nov 5 2004, 10:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WildChicken @ Nov 5 2004, 10:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Try it against a marine team which are actually your own skill level and watch yourselves get owned. BADLY. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How would that be? The marines get insta-gibbed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Let me pick out key words for you.
<!--QuoteBegin-WildChicken+Nov 5 2004, 10:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WildChicken @ Nov 5 2004, 10:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Try it against a marine team which are <b>actually your own skill level</b> and watch yourselves get owned. BADLY. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course, if you are truely a n00b, then "your own skill level" is another n00b, so it may work. Either way you've embarrased yourself. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Only in your closed mind have I embarrassed myself.
The marines WILL lose unless it's a certain Marine Spawn and ALL the marines are lined up in a red coat type formation ready to fire as soon as the skulks are in range.
It all happens in a three to four second time frame.
FROM MARINE POINT OF VIEW:
*Is building an arms lab.* *Hears incoming skulks.* *Door opening sound.* *Starts to shoot at skulks with LMG, along with three to six other marines.* *Around two to three skulks die.* *Most of the marines are now dead except one.* *That marine gets swarmed and dies.* *The skulks are now chomping on the ip's and other structures.* GG.
FROM THE ALIEN POINT OF VIEW: *Rushing down corridor.* *Rushing towards spark noise.* *Rushing towards strange things.* *Strange things make friend go not move.* *Friendly bite to strange things. They not move no more. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> * *Bite strange noisy things that make annoying sound.* *Bite big strange thing that has strange soft thing sound inside.* "GET ME OUTTA HERE!" *Bite soft strange thing with loud thing till not move.* GG.
The abilites of sensories aside they're still really good chambers. drop one outside a choke point and you have cloaking and blocking MT which really helps. The most n00b marine can avoid an ambusm because he knows there are three skulks around the corner. you can deny res and movement to marines in those areas. On pub games we kept losing because we couldn't deny the marines res and we lost the hives because they had MT and know where we were and where we weren't. One uber regen fade doesn't win when the marines have maxxed upgrades and HMG all over the place. the sound thing is an issue but all the marine knows is that there are skulks in the next room. He doesn't know where it is cloaked and where his buddies are. *walks in shooting corner. the skulk cloaked by his feet chomps him*.
<!--QuoteBegin-jammno+Nov 8 2004, 09:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jammno @ Nov 8 2004, 09:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [Some quote from me which he ignores totally] Only in your closed mind have I embarrassed myself.
The marines WILL lose unless it's a certain Marine Spawn and ALL the marines are lined up in a red coat type formation ready to fire as soon as the skulks are in range.
It all happens in a three to four second time frame.
FROM MARINE POINT OF VIEW: ...
FROM THE ALIEN POINT OF VIEW: ... GG. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I won't flame you, as you will probably take me even less seriously.
Let's break this down to short sentences (/-s fragments).
Focus Rush Wont Work.
The EXCEPTION is a nub marine team. REGARDLESS of the alien skill, a decent marine team (as in, played for more than ... 3 hours,) will DESTROY an alien SC team.
Your "POV" is so skewed it's beyond belief. A1 at 1:30. ONE minute, and THIRTY seconds. The base will be MINED by 30 seconds. You wont have a single chamber by the time they are ready for you. Assuming ALL marines leave, and the COMMANDER builds HIMSELF, then armour is STILL researched by 1:30. It's less with more marines. (Yes, I've TESTED this.)
" *Starts to shoot at skulks with LMG, along with three to six other marines.* *Around two to three skulks die.*"
Ok, average of 3-6 is 4.5, call it 5. 5 marines which KNOW skulks are coming. They know WHERE FROM. :| How the hell can they fail to kill them?! ANY marine start has a range advantage. 5 marines... that's 500 bullets with one reload, 9 bullets kill. :| Some quick maths says they could kill the entire team 9 times over if they dont miss. If they miss 1/3 or their shots, that's still 3 times over, and we have not accounted for pistol, mines, or knife. (Or one of your dumb **** Focus rushers falling in the pit in ns_nothing's ms, which is more likely than them pulling off the rush)
Only marine start where this would actually work would be ayumi or nancy MS, as they both have a wall obstructing the view, but of course the marines won't be hiding in MS if they have ANY experience with the game. Point is, marines WILL survive the initial assault, have mines, a1, welders by 2 minutes tops and lock down both hives. Elecced RTs are invulnerable to anything less than a very persistent fade or an onos (Or OCs, which we all know are rather crappy).
so these marines are immune to cloaked skulks they don't know about? The sensory chamber sets up the perfect ambush location where ever it is. I don't know about you but armor 1/2/3 doesn't last long with 5 skulks in the fray. Its hard to get a two hive lockdown when your pushs are getting munched.
The point in this thread was the focus RUSH, not how to use the SC midgame. But SC still loses, as any decent marine team will then move in groups, weld each other, ask for scans if needed. Any decent comm will most likely also build 2+ obs, making sure to scan every choke point or res node the marines move to. As long as the teams are at the same skill level, the marines WILL win.
<!--QuoteBegin-Spartan25+Nov 8 2004, 05:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spartan25 @ Nov 8 2004, 05:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so these marines are immune to cloaked skulks they don't know about? The sensory chamber sets up the perfect ambush location where ever it is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> /me exploads Ambushes. :| Who cares? They're still 2 bite ambushes. Go in 2s, you may loose one marine in the ambush. As the armour techs up, you need even more bites, and the element of surprise surely only counts for one of those. Without fade, marines will still wipe the floor with the aliens. Skulks need leap, silence, or clerity to really become any good. Denying them this shoots yourself in the proverbial foot.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its hard to get a two hive lockdown when your pushs are getting munched.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hive lock downs being broken by sensory skulks? Has the world gone mad? As my educated companion correctly says, you still have the Elec Rts of Dewm to overcome. Argue your way out of that. :|
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't know about you but armor 1/2/3 doesn't last long with 5 skulks in the fray<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you're trying to say that the 5 skulk fray will over come the 2 bites, than that's the same as doing a normal non-focus rush. :|
Edit: Added the word "proverbial." Works so much better. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-WildChicken+Nov 8 2004, 05:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WildChicken @ Nov 8 2004, 05:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As long as the teams are at the same skill level, the marines WILL win. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> o0 I dunno.
You may have a point there. I've only played pub games and all, so my view may be a bit skewed. But in my experience marines have a hard time tracking skulks chewing on them. If they're good skulks their teammates have a hard time too. The sensory also blocks MT which is a really big help in my opinion. I agree with WildChicken that focus rushs don't work in NS. The SC is still very useful in early game. My point in the aforementioned post was that these amushes would work because most marines can't see cloaked skulks. if you can match or be within one or two skulks of matching their numbers a proper cloaking ambush will probably work. one or two cloaked skulks behind, one or two in front, and one or two in vents, ceieling,etc.. Usally that doesn't work twice in the same place but in the meanwhile after 4 or 5 'rines die you can run forward take out rt's, find another ambush spot, take a hive etc.. . These ambushs also work great if you have a gorge around. Gorge runs behind corner, marines follow, munching ensues.
(oh and Blue November I wasn't talking about the lockdown I was talking about groups of marines running out of base to lockdown a hive, rt or other assorted objective.)
Well, scan can ruin any ambush. Knowing exactly where the skulks are kinda nullifies the point in ambushing AFAIK. Which was the reason any decent comm would build several observatories and scan often.
Yeah I guess you're right . The point I was trying to make is that SC is a viable first choice as long you use the right strategy ok <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. We can argue individual points all day long but not get anywhere. Yes, scan is the antidote to an ambush if you have a comm that is that good. ok....... I've made peace with the forum goers (fire insurance)
<!--QuoteBegin-Spartan25+Nov 8 2004, 07:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spartan25 @ Nov 8 2004, 07:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah I guess you're right . The point I was trying to make is that SC is a viable first choice as long you use the right strategy ok <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. We can argue individual points all day long but not get anywhere. Yes, scan is the antidote to an ambush if you have a comm that is that good. ok....... I've made peace with the forum goers (fire insurance) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *Prize for the best most polite comeback ever*
The average is:
"YOU GUYS SUCK!" Group:Banned
Edit: ARG! You make out aas if you still think it's a valid first chamber!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> (Hell, I've editted every other one of my posts in this thread, now's not the time to stop.)
I disagree. We can argue all night and I'd really enjoy it. However my coursework continues to suffer and stagnate. I'd say ALL good comms and most pubers (although the two terms are generally mutally exclusive...) have the obs in group 5, and scan with 5 -> A on a regular basis. WC does it without asking. :o
Ugh, I'm not going to bother trying to combat "Theorycraft."
All I have to say is that you should test it before you doubt it.
If you can get enough people together for a test, I can post a demo of it working. =P (As long as megaworm isn't down.)
People on a regular basis claim strats don't work or other propoganda. Point is they never test it.
Hell, I used rifle/casters and climbed very high rank ladder on WC3. Back when everyone said rifles and casters suck. Now look at the game. Rifles/Caster is basic cookie cutter. Everyone does it!
Takes the public TOO long to realize a good strategy when it comes around. All they do is shoot the messenger. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you want to believe that this strat won't work. By all means keep thinking that. More power to those with open minds.
<!--QuoteBegin-jammno+Nov 8 2004, 09:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jammno @ Nov 8 2004, 09:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hell, I used rifle/casters and climbed very high rank ladder on WC3. Back when everyone said rifles and casters suck. Now look at the game. Rifles/Caster is basic cookie cutter. Everyone does it! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> post account for review? Unless you were banned you should still be on the list.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ovaltine+Nov 9 2004, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ovaltine @ Nov 9 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-jammno+Nov 8 2004, 09:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jammno @ Nov 8 2004, 09:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hell, I used rifle/casters and climbed very high rank ladder on WC3. Back when everyone said rifles and casters suck. Now look at the game. Rifles/Caster is basic cookie cutter. Everyone does it! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> post account for review? Unless you were banned you should still be on the list. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The account I had has LONG been sold to someone else. Seriously, if you remember a bit after HU mass caster cheese was fixed, hardly any humans used rifle/casters. They all used footmen/knights. Now it's flip flop =P
this is one of those strategies that will probably only work once... but it would be pretty funny <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
lvl 3 Focus vs lvl 0 Armored marines is a slaughter <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Al you need to win wiht sc is to have less defended marine base. 2 skulks rush the arms--> power of two makes it down too fast for most rines to react---> after that just have fun with the poor armor0 marines.
If I was comm I'd hear the eggs, send four marines straight there. Maybe pick off a skulk or two ont he way to the hive then take out the gorges (or they may have killed themselves). With 3-4 in the spawn cycle and 3-4 rines in your hive building an obs to counter your SC it's GG.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Al you need to win wiht sc is to have less defended marine base. 2 skulks rush the arms--> power of two makes it down too fast for most rines to react---> after that just have fun with the poor armor0 marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A good comm always hears activity near spawn, he doesnt just wait for his arms lab to be under attack before he does something. I mean if it's that easy to get 2 skulks into spawn why not send all 6 and just finish the game there and then <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-fried_rice+Nov 12 2004, 11:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fried_rice @ Nov 12 2004, 11:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> every pub you've been to, your little strat works. Every pug i've been to, this strat fails miserably and my team becomes the laughingstock of NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> When they execute it correctly it works. It takes them about two hours to forget defense first and actually TRY my strategy.
Okay so I tested observatory VS this strat. Here's what happened.
We rush the marine spawn. They have obs, 2 IP's, and a rocking arms lab (Upgrading armor 1.)
We rush in (Four of us.) and kill the three marines still in spawn. One skulk dies. Another marine comes back to base and he dies. We begin to munch on an IP. Beacon siren goes off. A marine spawns at the IP and dies instantly. We kill the IP. Marines are beaconed and we kill 5 marines (Eight total) and we all die.
We respawn and go focus again, this time all nine of us rush the base with all nine marines + mines in base. We kill a good seven marines and the arms lab stops rocking. We lose three skulks. I start noticing the remaining three marines are taking two bites. We take them down then target the obs. The obs falls very fast (It's not a very strong structure.) then we target the IP's. I keep checking the scores menu to make sure no more marines are spawning. We take down the arms lab. I stay behind and attack the Comm chair. Marines begin to spawn again. I instruct one of the skulks that died to go scent of fear and go find them. 30 seconds later he finds them and we rush in and win.
That's the biggest threat this strat has ever faced. A few of the marines also had shotguns. We didn't even rush the base with every skulk either.
I have tried this strategy and it is quite useful.. until armor1. A vanilla Marine takes two regular bites to kill. Level3 Focus, and a vanilla Marine takes one bite to kill. Since Focus3 means each bite has twice as long a cooldown, two Focus bites is equivalent to FOUR regular bites. Armor1 Marines take three regular bites to kill, but two Focus.. however, those three regular bites take less time than the two Focus.
Those are just statistics. Under ideal circumstances, Armor1 Marines take longer to kill with Focus. However, this is not accounting for misses with Focus or Regular bites, or the fact that it seems most people have an easier time timing bites with Focus as long as they're not in a rush to kill and take the time to step back, wait for recharge, and then rush in for the final bite. I've seen Heavies taken out from full health by Focus skulks who run in, bite, step back about three feet, then repeat. It's pretty funny watching them scoot back, wait motionless, then lurch forward again to take another chunk out of the Heavy.
But this is definately a more interesting strategy with the new changes to SC (the SoF behaviour.) If you're wary of the validity of this tactic, atleast try it once B6 comes around. I think the SoF function of the new SCs will lead to more SC-first games.
You really need to throw in a good and smart early lerk into the mix if you go sensory first. Lerk just gets scent of fear, and gasses only, this way even if the commander counters with armor 1, gas will eat it away so they become real vanilla marines once more. Plus scent of fear lerk can see where squads of marines are moving and gas them before the lerk actually sees them. Sensory first = Lerk is key.
<!--QuoteBegin-jammno+Nov 15 2004, 09:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jammno @ Nov 15 2004, 09:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-fried_rice+Nov 12 2004, 11:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fried_rice @ Nov 12 2004, 11:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> every pub you've been to, your little strat works. Every pug i've been to, this strat fails miserably and my team becomes the laughingstock of NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> When they execute it correctly it works. It takes them about two hours to forget defense first and actually TRY my strategy.
Okay so I tested observatory VS this strat. Here's what happened.
We rush the marine spawn. They have obs, 2 IP's, and a rocking arms lab (Upgrading armor 1.)
We rush in (Four of us.) and kill the three marines still in spawn. One skulk dies. Another marine comes back to base and he dies. We begin to munch on an IP. Beacon siren goes off. A marine spawns at the IP and dies instantly. We kill the IP. Marines are beaconed and we kill 5 marines (Eight total) and we all die.
We respawn and go focus again, this time all nine of us rush the base with all nine marines + mines in base. We kill a good seven marines and the arms lab stops rocking. We lose three skulks. I start noticing the remaining three marines are taking two bites. We take them down then target the obs. The obs falls very fast (It's not a very strong structure.) then we target the IP's. I keep checking the scores menu to make sure no more marines are spawning. We take down the arms lab. I stay behind and attack the Comm chair. Marines begin to spawn again. I instruct one of the skulks that died to go scent of fear and go find them. 30 seconds later he finds them and we rush in and win.
That's the biggest threat this strat has ever faced. A few of the marines also had shotguns. We didn't even rush the base with every skulk either. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ok first of all there shouldn't be more than 1/3 of the team guarding the base. I have no clue what the com told them to do or what he researched but he sure as hell didn't know what he was trying to pull versus a sensory first alien team.
The timedifference between 3 bites and 2 focusbites is actually not that large - its miniscule even, and you still have an advantage since its un-meddable. The reason? The first bite is instant, meaning we're actually comparing the time for TWO bites (non-focus) vs that of ONE bite (focus) - which is a really, really short time difference now, considering you have one less knockback to worry about and its unmeddable, its pretty sweet.
Comments
erm it will work if you have a microphone and people will actually <b>LISTEN</b> to you which in most cases they don't.
How would that be? The marines get insta-gibbed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let me pick out key words for you.
<!--QuoteBegin-WildChicken+Nov 5 2004, 10:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WildChicken @ Nov 5 2004, 10:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Try it against a marine team which are <b>actually your own skill level</b> and watch yourselves get owned. BADLY. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course, if you are truely a n00b, then "your own skill level" is another n00b, so it may work.
Either way you've embarrased yourself. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only in your closed mind have I embarrassed myself.
The marines WILL lose unless it's a certain Marine Spawn and ALL the marines are lined up in a red coat type formation ready to fire as soon as the skulks are in range.
It all happens in a three to four second time frame.
FROM MARINE POINT OF VIEW:
*Is building an arms lab.*
*Hears incoming skulks.*
*Door opening sound.*
*Starts to shoot at skulks with LMG, along with three to six other marines.*
*Around two to three skulks die.*
*Most of the marines are now dead except one.*
*That marine gets swarmed and dies.*
*The skulks are now chomping on the ip's and other structures.*
GG.
FROM THE ALIEN POINT OF VIEW:
*Rushing down corridor.*
*Rushing towards spark noise.*
*Rushing towards strange things.*
*Strange things make friend go not move.*
*Friendly bite to strange things. They not move no more. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> *
*Bite strange noisy things that make annoying sound.*
*Bite big strange thing that has strange soft thing sound inside.* "GET ME OUTTA HERE!"
*Bite soft strange thing with loud thing till not move.*
GG.
On pub games we kept losing because we couldn't deny the marines res and we lost the hives because they had MT and know where we were and where we weren't. One uber regen fade doesn't win when the marines have maxxed upgrades and HMG all over the place.
the sound thing is an issue but all the marine knows is that there are skulks in the next room. He doesn't know where it is cloaked and where his buddies are. *walks in shooting corner. the skulk cloaked by his feet chomps him*.
Only in your closed mind have I embarrassed myself.
The marines WILL lose unless it's a certain Marine Spawn and ALL the marines are lined up in a red coat type formation ready to fire as soon as the skulks are in range.
It all happens in a three to four second time frame.
FROM MARINE POINT OF VIEW:
...
FROM THE ALIEN POINT OF VIEW:
...
GG.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I won't flame you, as you will probably take me even less seriously.
Let's break this down to short sentences (/-s fragments).
Focus
Rush
Wont
Work.
The EXCEPTION is a nub marine team. REGARDLESS of the alien skill, a decent marine team (as in, played for more than ... 3 hours,) will DESTROY an alien SC team.
Your "POV" is so skewed it's beyond belief.
A1 at 1:30.
ONE minute, and THIRTY seconds. The base will be MINED by 30 seconds. You wont have a single chamber by the time they are ready for you.
Assuming ALL marines leave, and the COMMANDER builds HIMSELF, then armour is STILL researched by 1:30. It's less with more marines. (Yes, I've TESTED this.)
"
*Starts to shoot at skulks with LMG, along with three to six other marines.*
*Around two to three skulks die.*"
Ok, average of 3-6 is 4.5, call it 5.
5 marines which KNOW skulks are coming. They know WHERE FROM. :|
How the hell can they fail to kill them?! ANY marine start has a range advantage. 5 marines... that's 500 bullets with one reload, 9 bullets kill. :| Some quick maths says they could kill the entire team 9 times over if they dont miss. If they miss 1/3 or their shots, that's still 3 times over, and we have not accounted for pistol, mines, or knife. (Or one of your dumb **** Focus rushers falling in the pit in ns_nothing's ms, which is more likely than them pulling off the rush)
But we digress. Point is, marines will have a1.
GG *aliens*.
Edit: Sniped the quote a bit
/me exploads
Ambushes.
:|
Who cares?
They're still 2 bite ambushes. Go in 2s, you may loose one marine in the ambush. As the armour techs up, you need even more bites, and the element of surprise surely only counts for one of those. Without fade, marines will still wipe the floor with the aliens. Skulks need leap, silence, or clerity to really become any good. Denying them this shoots yourself in the proverbial foot.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its hard to get a two hive lockdown when your pushs are getting munched.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hive lock downs being broken by sensory skulks? Has the world gone mad? As my educated companion correctly says, you still have the Elec Rts of Dewm to overcome. Argue your way out of that. :|
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't know about you but armor 1/2/3 doesn't last long with 5 skulks in the fray<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're trying to say that the 5 skulk fray will over come the 2 bites, than that's the same as doing a normal non-focus rush. :|
Edit:
Added the word "proverbial." Works so much better. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
o0 I dunno.
N00bs vs n00bs
It could be close.
My point in the aforementioned post was that these amushes would work because most marines can't see cloaked skulks. if you can match or be within one or two skulks of matching their numbers a proper cloaking ambush will probably work. one or two cloaked skulks behind, one or two in front, and one or two in vents, ceieling,etc..
Usally that doesn't work twice in the same place but in the meanwhile after 4 or 5 'rines die you can run forward take out rt's, find another ambush spot, take a hive etc.. . These ambushs also work great if you have a gorge around.
Gorge runs behind corner, marines follow, munching ensues.
(oh and Blue November I wasn't talking about the lockdown I was talking about groups of marines running out of base to lockdown a hive, rt or other assorted objective.)
*Prize for the best most polite comeback ever*
The average is:
"YOU GUYS SUCK!"
Group:Banned
Edit: ARG! You make out aas if you still think it's a valid first chamber!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> (Hell, I've editted every other one of my posts in this thread, now's not the time to stop.)
I disagree. We can argue all night and I'd really enjoy it. However my coursework continues to suffer and stagnate.
I'd say ALL good comms and most pubers (although the two terms are generally mutally exclusive...) have the obs in group 5, and scan with 5 -> A on a regular basis.
WC does it without asking. :o
All I have to say is that you should test it before you doubt it.
If you can get enough people together for a test, I can post a demo of it working. =P (As long as megaworm isn't down.)
People on a regular basis claim strats don't work or other propoganda. Point is they never test it.
Hell, I used rifle/casters and climbed very high rank ladder on WC3. Back when everyone said rifles and casters suck. Now look at the game. Rifles/Caster is basic cookie cutter. Everyone does it!
Takes the public TOO long to realize a good strategy when it comes around. All they do is shoot the messenger. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you want to believe that this strat won't work. By all means keep thinking that. More power to those with open minds.
post account for review? Unless you were banned you should still be on the list.
post account for review? Unless you were banned you should still be on the list. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The account I had has LONG been sold to someone else. Seriously, if you remember a bit after HU mass caster cheese was fixed, hardly any humans used rifle/casters. They all used footmen/knights. Now it's flip flop =P
Case in point, Hannibal and the Alps.
lvl 3 Focus vs lvl 0 Armored marines is a slaughter <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Al you need to win wiht sc is to have less defended marine base. 2 skulks rush the arms--> power of two makes it down too fast for most rines to react---> after that just have fun with the poor armor0 marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A good comm always hears activity near spawn, he doesnt just wait for his arms lab to be under attack before he does something. I mean if it's that easy to get 2 skulks into spawn why not send all 6 and just finish the game there and then <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
When they execute it correctly it works. It takes them about two hours to forget defense first and actually TRY my strategy.
Okay so I tested observatory VS this strat. Here's what happened.
We rush the marine spawn. They have obs, 2 IP's, and a rocking arms lab (Upgrading armor 1.)
We rush in (Four of us.) and kill the three marines still in spawn. One skulk dies. Another marine comes back to base and he dies. We begin to munch on an IP. Beacon siren goes off. A marine spawns at the IP and dies instantly. We kill the IP. Marines are beaconed and we kill 5 marines (Eight total) and we all die.
We respawn and go focus again, this time all nine of us rush the base with all nine marines + mines in base. We kill a good seven marines and the arms lab stops rocking. We lose three skulks. I start noticing the remaining three marines are taking two bites. We take them down then target the obs. The obs falls very fast (It's not a very strong structure.) then we target the IP's. I keep checking the scores menu to make sure no more marines are spawning. We take down the arms lab. I stay behind and attack the Comm chair. Marines begin to spawn again. I instruct one of the skulks that died to go scent of fear and go find them. 30 seconds later he finds them and we rush in and win.
That's the biggest threat this strat has ever faced. A few of the marines also had shotguns. We didn't even rush the base with every skulk either.
A vanilla Marine takes two regular bites to kill.
Level3 Focus, and a vanilla Marine takes one bite to kill.
Since Focus3 means each bite has twice as long a cooldown, two Focus bites is equivalent to FOUR regular bites.
Armor1 Marines take three regular bites to kill, but two Focus.. however, those three regular bites take less time than the two Focus.
Those are just statistics. Under ideal circumstances, Armor1 Marines take longer to kill with Focus. However, this is not accounting for misses with Focus or Regular bites, or the fact that it seems most people have an easier time timing bites with Focus as long as they're not in a rush to kill and take the time to step back, wait for recharge, and then rush in for the final bite. I've seen Heavies taken out from full health by Focus skulks who run in, bite, step back about three feet, then repeat. It's pretty funny watching them scoot back, wait motionless, then lurch forward again to take another chunk out of the Heavy.
But this is definately a more interesting strategy with the new changes to SC (the SoF behaviour.) If you're wary of the validity of this tactic, atleast try it once B6 comes around. I think the SoF function of the new SCs will lead to more SC-first games.
When they execute it correctly it works. It takes them about two hours to forget defense first and actually TRY my strategy.
Okay so I tested observatory VS this strat. Here's what happened.
We rush the marine spawn. They have obs, 2 IP's, and a rocking arms lab (Upgrading armor 1.)
We rush in (Four of us.) and kill the three marines still in spawn. One skulk dies. Another marine comes back to base and he dies. We begin to munch on an IP. Beacon siren goes off. A marine spawns at the IP and dies instantly. We kill the IP. Marines are beaconed and we kill 5 marines (Eight total) and we all die.
We respawn and go focus again, this time all nine of us rush the base with all nine marines + mines in base. We kill a good seven marines and the arms lab stops rocking. We lose three skulks. I start noticing the remaining three marines are taking two bites. We take them down then target the obs. The obs falls very fast (It's not a very strong structure.) then we target the IP's. I keep checking the scores menu to make sure no more marines are spawning. We take down the arms lab. I stay behind and attack the Comm chair. Marines begin to spawn again. I instruct one of the skulks that died to go scent of fear and go find them. 30 seconds later he finds them and we rush in and win.
That's the biggest threat this strat has ever faced. A few of the marines also had shotguns. We didn't even rush the base with every skulk either. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok first of all there shouldn't be more than 1/3 of the team guarding the base. I have no clue what the com told them to do or what he researched but he sure as hell didn't know what he was trying to pull versus a sensory first alien team.