<!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Oct 22 2004, 07:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Oct 22 2004, 07:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> because everyone knows that killing a lot is better than being able to transmit your thoughts in an educated and comprehensible way. Right? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> whut j00 meen mendasp? Skillz pwn teh Communikation any day kthnx! !
<!--QuoteBegin-supernorn2000+Oct 22 2004, 02:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (supernorn2000 @ Oct 22 2004, 02:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Oct 22 2004, 07:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Oct 22 2004, 07:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> because everyone knows that killing a lot is better than being able to transmit your thoughts in an educated and comprehensible way. Right? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> whut j00 meen mendasp? Skillz pwn teh Communikation any day kthnx! ! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The thing is I don't know any truly skilled people who actually speak like that.
That's how it works. You can be the best player in the world, if you're a stupid **** you won't be a PT. Of course you have to meet all the requirements, but the important here is the communication. You have to play to make sure the build you're testing doesn't crash, and that there are no horrible bugs making the game terrible to play or things like that. Our main job is feedback, not I&S 2 as some of the people posting here are implying.
<!--QuoteBegin-supernorn2000+Oct 22 2004, 03:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (supernorn2000 @ Oct 22 2004, 03:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Oct 22 2004, 07:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Oct 22 2004, 07:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> because everyone knows that killing a lot is better than being able to transmit your thoughts in an educated and comprehensible way. Right? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> whut j00 meen mendasp? Skillz pwn teh Communikation any day kthnx! ! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Same as Necrosis's post, I don't see how your response backs up whatever case you are supporting. The only thing you're doing is throwing flamebait into a thread that is already really active and jumpy. You're not doing anyone a favor.
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Oct 22 2004, 12:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Oct 22 2004, 12:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> please find someone who is active in NS, who earnestly wants to help NS progress, and who speaks like that when they are trying to communicate to others about a possible problem in the game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I could find you at least five examples right now with almost no effort by looking in I&S. I'm not going to, because that would be rude to the people held up as examples of poorly worded posting. But the fact remains that these people meet every one of the criteria you posted exactly. Just go read through a few threads in I&S.
Being able to spot the problem clearly and concisely is always more difficult then suggesting solutions.. Don't believe me, look in I&S... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which fits along with competetive players because they always find the problems first and generally very fast.
Most of NS:C's problems example, competetive players know about since... like 5 months ago for example.
Being able to spot the problem clearly and concisely is always more difficult then suggesting solutions.. Don't believe me, look in I&S... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which fits along with competetive players because they always find the problems first and generally very fast.
Most of NS:C's problems example, competetive players know about since... like 5 months ago for example. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Communication first...
Being able to spot the problem clearly and concisely is always more difficult then suggesting solutions.. Don't believe me, look in I&S... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which fits along with competetive players because they always find the problems first and generally very fast.
Most of NS:C's problems example, competetive players know about since... like 5 months ago for example. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Communication first... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Communication means nothing if you have nothing to communicate...
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Oct 22 2004, 03:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Oct 22 2004, 03:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Oct 22 2004, 12:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Oct 22 2004, 12:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> please find someone who is active in NS, who earnestly wants to help NS progress, and who speaks like that when they are trying to communicate to others about a possible problem in the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I could find you at least five examples right now with almost no effort by looking in I&S. I'm not going to, because that would be rude to the people held up as examples of poorly worded posting. But the fact remains that these people meet every one of the criteria you posted exactly. Just go read through a few threads in I&S. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My mistake for not clarifying, I was speaking in response to Necrosis who was basically mocking the 'skilled' people, those some might consider the top competitive NS players, not the NS playerbase in general. I've read and still read I&S everyday, and also at times have contributed my view or opinion on some ideas. However, most people in that section doesn't fit the four criterias that we are talking about right now and that was what my response was directed towards.
Being able to spot the problem clearly and concisely is always more difficult then suggesting solutions.. Don't believe me, look in I&S... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which fits along with competetive players because they always find the problems first and generally very fast.
Most of NS:C's problems example, competetive players know about since... like 5 months ago for example. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Communication first... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Communication means nothing if you have nothing to communicate... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Communicating is not bitching about it.
Oh, and if you read the posts, you'll see that... both are required.
Being able to spot the problem clearly and concisely is always more difficult then suggesting solutions.. Don't believe me, look in I&S... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which fits along with competetive players because they always find the problems first and generally very fast.
Most of NS:C's problems example, competetive players know about since... like 5 months ago for example. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Communication first... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> To come to Forlorn's defense, I don't believe Zunni was about 5 months ago, and at that time if I am not incorrect, I&S was definately not the I&S it is today, that is why most of the competitive players have ignored that subforum. If I am incorrect though, then I retract my statement.
Being able to spot the problem clearly and concisely is always more difficult then suggesting solutions.. Don't believe me, look in I&S... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which fits along with competetive players because they always find the problems first and generally very fast.
Most of NS:C's problems example, competetive players know about since... like 5 months ago for example. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Communication first... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Communication means nothing if you have nothing to communicate... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Communicating is not bitching about it.
Oh, and if you read the posts, you'll see that... both are required. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But the argument is order of importance.
And the bitching comment, very witty. Notice who is bringing hostality about this? People only **** when they feel despiration.
Just because I'm a girl that happens to play NS on a somewhat regular basis, belong to a small, sometimes CAL participating clan([X-Fall]), am well mannered and can spell, and because I have some skill would make me a prime candidate over others?
I'm not one to take advantage of things, and I don't think race/gender/ethnicity matter much to people who want a balanced game that is fun for all.
<!--QuoteBegin-Blue Mary+Oct 22 2004, 01:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Blue Mary @ Oct 22 2004, 01:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think race/gender/ethnicity matter much to people who want a balanced game that is fun for all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And you don't think you might be able to bring another point of view to the table that may not be represented elsewhere? The more points of view that are available, the more well rounded the final product. Don't you think that it's just possible that a game only PTed by Lithuanian women in their 40s might end up not being as appealing to 20 year old American males as it would if they were included in the PT process?
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 22 2004, 09:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 22 2004, 09:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And the bitching comment, very witty. Notice who is bringing hostality about this? People only **** when they feel despiration. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup, I noticed who's bringing hostility, I'm not the one making long posts about how wrong everyone in the dev team is, yet I still hang around in said community's forums. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Okay, we're beginning to stray towards insult and flame. The first step is pointing out somebody else's fallacy in "debate strategy", and the next step is either flames or pre-emptive lockage. On with the debate:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But the argument is order of importance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You don't need to belong to one of the top clans in the land in order to hunt for bugs or terribly broken aspects of gameplay. You simply need a grasp of how to play the game and you need to be reasonably proficient at it. For example, I'm not NEARLY as good as some of these guys up top, but I've reported dozens of bugs in the beta bug reports forum. Granted, the bugs in a closed playtest may be far more ugly and convoluted, but it's a similar concept.
Anyway, much love for the Grendal. Keep it up, you're part of what makes this game great!
<!--QuoteBegin-Blue Mary+Oct 22 2004, 09:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Blue Mary @ Oct 22 2004, 09:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So let me get this straight....
Just because I'm a girl that happens to play NS on a somewhat regular basis, belong to a small, sometimes CAL participating clan([X-Fall]), am well mannered and can spell, and because I have some skill would make me a prime candidate over others?
I'm not one to take advantage of things, and I don't think race/gender/ethnicity matter much to people who want a balanced game that is fun for all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you just asked for becoming a PT your request will be shurely denied, cause you violated rule #1. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well, i know it sounds strange but when you are talking about marketing you always need to make shure that #1 your product is liked (or even better worshiped) by the main consumer group (thats the 14-21 old white NA/EU) and #2 that it is not disliked by groups that could influence your main consumer group.
"E.g. Tim likes NS but his girlfriend Jinjin doesnt like it at all."
What we actually want is that Tim plays NS often and that Jinjin accepts it. But if we can make Jinjin like NS it will be a much greater success. Hence you always try to cover several groups besides your main consumer group during a playtest.
I am shure that Grendel wants to recruit more PTs from the non "main-consumer group" in order to improve the game and not just cause he likes to annoy us 14-21 year old white NA/EU.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Oct 22 2004, 02:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Oct 22 2004, 02:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 22 2004, 09:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 22 2004, 09:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And the bitching comment, very witty. Notice who is bringing hostality about this? People only **** when they feel despiration. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup, I noticed who's bringing hostility, I'm not the one making long posts about how wrong everyone in the dev team is, yet I still hang around in said community's forums. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That's right. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, I should leave like everyone else, stupid me for trying to fix a problem.
You do realize how much of the competetive community claims they are going to leave after season 5, correct?
You do realize that beta 6 is the last version that will be released before the end of season 5, correct?
What's the sense in leaving before time is due? At the very worst people will listen to logic.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 22 2004, 10:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 22 2004, 10:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> At the very worst people will listen to logic. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And post with educated manners? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: You're trying to fix things? How? With drama posts? Hmmm.
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Oct 22 2004, 02:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Oct 22 2004, 02:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't you think that it's just possible that a game only PTed by Lithuanian women in their 40s might end up not being as appealing to 20 year old American males as it would if they were included in the PT process? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You never know, it could be a hit. But would the Lithuanian women be focusing their video game to the American public, or to the Lithuanian public?
I don't see NS being in anyway attractive to how you people like to define women, but I still like it and play it because it's a fun game. And that's been the way I think of this game since I joined in 2.0.
Trying to bring everyone to the table is difficult and near-impossible at best. Because once you show favoritism to one group, others start complaining and will want similar favoritism. Then there will be massive arguments about who is better, who should be allowed, who shouldn't etc....
Oh wait, that's already going on.
One person of an ethnicity can NEVER be compared to the enitre race, it's just not possible to make a true connection that way.
You don't send a criminal who does drugs and steals cars to an IVY league university if she's white, but when she's black, of course they'll take her over a woman who's a scholor taking AP courses and in the Honors program with an A- average due to crappy affirmative action(this happened to me in real life), and she was arrested on campus half a year later for drugs, had a horrible GPA, and could care less, because she knew she was milking the system.
For the PTs, don't let others milk the system and get what they want. Keep picking people that just want to bugtest the game they love. Anominity over the internet allows people to lie and be what they want if they want to get in, and it's very sad what I've seen happening alot all over the internet, and how my own credibility is driven into the ground from people like that.
Oi, long rant >_<.
Great games do not have to appeal to people. Super Mario never appealed to any one group, and it was one of the greatest groundbreaking beginning games of all time with it's own legacy for some reason. Coded by Japanese people, pertaining to an Italian plumber, jumping on ficticious animals, and directed at children, but ended up being a longtime hit.
Who you direct the game to doesn't matter. Making a great game is what matters. Pick the people you know will be better for it, not what the public opinion feels.
And please let me point out to other people who may criticize me, I don't want to, or really ever want to, become a PT. I'm simply too flooded with my school and career aspects to get involved in something that requires alot of committment.
<!--QuoteBegin-Blue Mary+Oct 22 2004, 02:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Blue Mary @ Oct 22 2004, 02:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> how you people like to define women <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Whoa whoa, them's fightin' words. I mean, literally. Those are words designed to provoke someone and get them to snipe back.
Let's ALL take a step back and calm down a tiny bit. Forlorn and Mendasp, go back to your respective corners and take a breather. I like what this thread is trying to accomplish, namely community to developer interaction, and I'd hate to see it devolve into another flame fest that I'm sadly forced to lock.
Comments
whut j00 meen mendasp? Skillz pwn teh Communikation any day kthnx! !
whut j00 meen mendasp? Skillz pwn teh Communikation any day kthnx! ! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is I don't know any truly skilled people who actually speak like that.
That's how it works. You can be the best player in the world, if you're a stupid **** you won't be a PT. Of course you have to meet all the requirements, but the important here is the communication. You have to play to make sure the build you're testing doesn't crash, and that there are no horrible bugs making the game terrible to play or things like that. Our main job is feedback, not I&S 2 as some of the people posting here are implying.
whut j00 meen mendasp? Skillz pwn teh Communikation any day kthnx! ! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same as Necrosis's post, I don't see how your response backs up whatever case you are supporting. The only thing you're doing is throwing flamebait into a thread that is already really active and jumpy. You're not doing anyone a favor.
Being able to spot the problem clearly and concisely is always more difficult then suggesting solutions.. Don't believe me, look in I&S...
Best reply I've seen in a while, Zunni.
As for "leet speak" parodies of top players, it's a very very old joke now, supernorn.
I could find you at least five examples right now with almost no effort by looking in I&S. I'm not going to, because that would be rude to the people held up as examples of poorly worded posting. But the fact remains that these people meet every one of the criteria you posted exactly. Just go read through a few threads in I&S.
Being able to spot the problem clearly and concisely is always more difficult then suggesting solutions.. Don't believe me, look in I&S... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which fits along with competetive players because they always find the problems first and generally very fast.
Most of NS:C's problems example, competetive players know about since... like 5 months ago for example.
Bob:
And if they are skilled....
Being able to spot the problem clearly and concisely is always more difficult then suggesting solutions.. Don't believe me, look in I&S... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which fits along with competetive players because they always find the problems first and generally very fast.
Most of NS:C's problems example, competetive players know about since... like 5 months ago for example. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Communication first...
Being able to spot the problem clearly and concisely is always more difficult then suggesting solutions.. Don't believe me, look in I&S... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which fits along with competetive players because they always find the problems first and generally very fast.
Most of NS:C's problems example, competetive players know about since... like 5 months ago for example. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Communication first... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Communication means nothing if you have nothing to communicate...
I could find you at least five examples right now with almost no effort by looking in I&S. I'm not going to, because that would be rude to the people held up as examples of poorly worded posting. But the fact remains that these people meet every one of the criteria you posted exactly. Just go read through a few threads in I&S. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My mistake for not clarifying, I was speaking in response to Necrosis who was basically mocking the 'skilled' people, those some might consider the top competitive NS players, not the NS playerbase in general. I've read and still read I&S everyday, and also at times have contributed my view or opinion on some ideas. However, most people in that section doesn't fit the four criterias that we are talking about right now and that was what my response was directed towards.
Being able to spot the problem clearly and concisely is always more difficult then suggesting solutions.. Don't believe me, look in I&S... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which fits along with competetive players because they always find the problems first and generally very fast.
Most of NS:C's problems example, competetive players know about since... like 5 months ago for example. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Communication first... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Communication means nothing if you have nothing to communicate... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Communicating is not bitching about it.
Oh, and if you read the posts, you'll see that... both are required.
Being able to spot the problem clearly and concisely is always more difficult then suggesting solutions.. Don't believe me, look in I&S... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which fits along with competetive players because they always find the problems first and generally very fast.
Most of NS:C's problems example, competetive players know about since... like 5 months ago for example. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Communication first... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To come to Forlorn's defense, I don't believe Zunni was about 5 months ago, and at that time if I am not incorrect, I&S was definately not the I&S it is today, that is why most of the competitive players have ignored that subforum. If I am incorrect though, then I retract my statement.
Being able to spot the problem clearly and concisely is always more difficult then suggesting solutions.. Don't believe me, look in I&S... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which fits along with competetive players because they always find the problems first and generally very fast.
Most of NS:C's problems example, competetive players know about since... like 5 months ago for example. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Communication first... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Communication means nothing if you have nothing to communicate... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Communicating is not bitching about it.
Oh, and if you read the posts, you'll see that... both are required. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But the argument is order of importance.
And the bitching comment, very witty. Notice who is bringing hostality about this? People only **** when they feel despiration.
Just because I'm a girl that happens to play NS on a somewhat regular basis, belong to a small, sometimes CAL participating clan([X-Fall]), am well mannered and can spell, and because I have some skill would make me a prime candidate over others?
I'm not one to take advantage of things, and I don't think race/gender/ethnicity matter much to people who want a balanced game that is fun for all.
And you don't think you might be able to bring another point of view to the table that may not be represented elsewhere? The more points of view that are available, the more well rounded the final product. Don't you think that it's just possible that a game only PTed by Lithuanian women in their 40s might end up not being as appealing to 20 year old American males as it would if they were included in the PT process?
Yup, I noticed who's bringing hostility, I'm not the one making long posts about how wrong everyone in the dev team is, yet I still hang around in said community's forums. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That's right.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But the argument is order of importance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't need to belong to one of the top clans in the land in order to hunt for bugs or terribly broken aspects of gameplay. You simply need a grasp of how to play the game and you need to be reasonably proficient at it. For example, I'm not NEARLY as good as some of these guys up top, but I've reported dozens of bugs in the beta bug reports forum. Granted, the bugs in a closed playtest may be far more ugly and convoluted, but it's a similar concept.
Anyway, much love for the Grendal. Keep it up, you're part of what makes this game great!
Just because I'm a girl that happens to play NS on a somewhat regular basis, belong to a small, sometimes CAL participating clan([X-Fall]), am well mannered and can spell, and because I have some skill would make me a prime candidate over others?
I'm not one to take advantage of things, and I don't think race/gender/ethnicity matter much to people who want a balanced game that is fun for all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you just asked for becoming a PT your request will be shurely denied, cause you violated rule #1. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well, i know it sounds strange but when you are talking about marketing you always need to make shure that #1 your product is liked (or even better worshiped) by the main consumer group (thats the 14-21 old white NA/EU) and #2 that it is not disliked by groups that could influence your main consumer group.
"E.g. Tim likes NS but his girlfriend Jinjin doesnt like it at all."
What we actually want is that Tim plays NS often and that Jinjin accepts it.
But if we can make Jinjin like NS it will be a much greater success.
Hence you always try to cover several groups besides your main consumer group during a playtest.
I am shure that Grendel wants to recruit more PTs from the non "main-consumer group" in order to improve the game and not just cause he likes to annoy us 14-21 year old white NA/EU.
Yup, I noticed who's bringing hostility, I'm not the one making long posts about how wrong everyone in the dev team is, yet I still hang around in said community's forums. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That's right. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I should leave like everyone else, stupid me for trying to fix a problem.
You do realize how much of the competetive community claims they are going to leave after season 5, correct?
You do realize that beta 6 is the last version that will be released before the end of season 5, correct?
What's the sense in leaving before time is due? At the very worst people will listen to logic.
And post with educated manners? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: You're trying to fix things? How? With drama posts? Hmmm.
You never know, it could be a hit. But would the Lithuanian women be focusing their video game to the American public, or to the Lithuanian public?
I don't see NS being in anyway attractive to how you people like to define women, but I still like it and play it because it's a fun game. And that's been the way I think of this game since I joined in 2.0.
Trying to bring everyone to the table is difficult and near-impossible at best. Because once you show favoritism to one group, others start complaining and will want similar favoritism. Then there will be massive arguments about who is better, who should be allowed, who shouldn't etc....
Oh wait, that's already going on.
One person of an ethnicity can NEVER be compared to the enitre race, it's just not possible to make a true connection that way.
You don't send a criminal who does drugs and steals cars to an IVY league university if she's white, but when she's black, of course they'll take her over a woman who's a scholor taking AP courses and in the Honors program with an A- average due to crappy affirmative action(this happened to me in real life), and she was arrested on campus half a year later for drugs, had a horrible GPA, and could care less, because she knew she was milking the system.
For the PTs, don't let others milk the system and get what they want. Keep picking people that just want to bugtest the game they love. Anominity over the internet allows people to lie and be what they want if they want to get in, and it's very sad what I've seen happening alot all over the internet, and how my own credibility is driven into the ground from people like that.
Oi, long rant >_<.
Great games do not have to appeal to people. Super Mario never appealed to any one group, and it was one of the greatest groundbreaking beginning games of all time with it's own legacy for some reason. Coded by Japanese people, pertaining to an Italian plumber, jumping on ficticious animals, and directed at children, but ended up being a longtime hit.
Who you direct the game to doesn't matter. Making a great game is what matters. Pick the people you know will be better for it, not what the public opinion feels.
It's how flamewars always start.
I could easily point out how you are perhaps the mapping forums' #1 "manner" person, for sure...
Whoa whoa, them's fightin' words. I mean, literally. Those are words designed to provoke someone and get them to snipe back.
Let's ALL take a step back and calm down a tiny bit. Forlorn and Mendasp, go back to your respective corners and take a breather. I like what this thread is trying to accomplish, namely community to developer interaction, and I'd hate to see it devolve into another flame fest that I'm sadly forced to lock.
Friendly advice to everyone: Calm down.
I have played many online games with large player bases, from FPS games to RPGs.
Every time an update is released to any of these games, there are people that will moan about it and say 'Im quitting'.
In 90% of these cases, this is not true, and they are simply saying it in a childish manner to try and get what they want.
I'm not saying that's what will happen here, but in most cases it's true.