<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 21 2004, 04:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 21 2004, 04:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No see, I'm not for clanners per se; I'm for highly skilled players getting to PT. I don't even think the existing PT program needs to be removed, I only think something needs to be added.
Anyhow, I use clanners with "highly skilled players" because chances are very likely if you are good then you are a clanner. However there are exceptions, there is always pub talent and stuff, but I do not know one player who is amoung the top in the world and only pubs. They can still be good but never the best untill they clan.
Makes sense too, as competition breeds skill... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You can rephrase it all you like, but the same arguement still holds. You, the "highly skilled players" will be given an advantage over the clanners who did not qualify as "highly skilled players".
<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Oct 21 2004, 06:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Oct 21 2004, 06:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 21 2004, 04:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 21 2004, 04:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No see, I'm not for clanners per se; I'm for highly skilled players getting to PT. I don't even think the existing PT program needs to be removed, I only think something needs to be added.
Anyhow, I use clanners with "highly skilled players" because chances are very likely if you are good then you are a clanner. However there are exceptions, there is always pub talent and stuff, but I do not know one player who is amoung the top in the world and only pubs. They can still be good but never the best untill they clan.
Makes sense too, as competition breeds skill... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can rephrase it all you like, but the same arguement still holds. You, the "highly skilled players" will be given an advantage over the clanners who did not qualify as "highly skilled players". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What is this 'advantage' thing. Playtesting and helping balance a game isn't an 'advantage'. You may say that, 'oh this clan PTer dude got to see a new build before the others. That doesn't make it unfair. There is a lot more to competitive matches than getting to see what new maps are in, what changes are made before the others. Good clans always manage to adapt when necessary.
<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Oct 21 2004, 05:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Oct 21 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 21 2004, 04:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 21 2004, 04:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No see, I'm not for clanners per se; I'm for highly skilled players getting to PT. I don't even think the existing PT program needs to be removed, I only think something needs to be added.
Anyhow, I use clanners with "highly skilled players" because chances are very likely if you are good then you are a clanner. However there are exceptions, there is always pub talent and stuff, but I do not know one player who is amoung the top in the world and only pubs. They can still be good but never the best untill they clan.
Makes sense too, as competition breeds skill... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can rephrase it all you like, but the same arguement still holds. You, the "highly skilled players" will be given an advantage over the clanners who did not qualify as "highly skilled players". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Simba is... he'd whoop ALL of you... he was in my old clan, and is looking at joining my current one (the old one dissolved after he left in disgust with the lack of dedication... much as I did) and he has got to be one of THE best I've seen.
<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Oct 21 2004, 05:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Oct 21 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Oct 21 2004, 04:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 21 2004, 04:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No see, I'm not for clanners per se; I'm for highly skilled players getting to PT. I don't even think the existing PT program needs to be removed, I only think something needs to be added.
Anyhow, I use clanners with "highly skilled players" because chances are very likely if you are good then you are a clanner. However there are exceptions, there is always pub talent and stuff, but I do not know one player who is amoung the top in the world and only pubs. They can still be good but never the best untill they clan.
Makes sense too, as competition breeds skill... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can rephrase it all you like, but the same arguement still holds. You, the "highly skilled players" will be given an advantage over the clanners who did not qualify as "highly skilled players". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, you misunderstand me. The "highly skilled players" will not be given an advantage over regular clanners, because <b>regular clanners will not have PT access, or at least the kind of testing access I'm talking about.</b> Only the highly skilled ones.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However there are exceptions, there is always pub talent and stuff, but I do not know one player who is amoung the top in the world and only pubs. They can still be good but never the best untill they clan.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't be surprised if you wouldn't hear of a top world player who only pubs. In competitive play, people set up their own leagues and rules and folks are known by their preformance in those. Those deemed good are known as such in those circles. I'd think someone who only pubbed wouldn't be known in those, or to people who mainly pay attention to those. Plus it's hard to judge a top world player when you really only have a small percentage of a game's playerbase playing competitively. I guess you could judge who's the best in the world within a competitive community, but it would be almost impossible to see how well someone is playing if they aren't bothering to put themselves in any sort of spotlight.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ness-Earthbound+Oct 21 2004, 06:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ness-Earthbound @ Oct 21 2004, 06:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However there are exceptions, there is always pub talent and stuff, but I do not know one player who is amoung the top in the world and only pubs. They can still be good but never the best untill they clan.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't be surprised if you wouldn't hear of a top world player who only pubs. In competitive play, people set up their own leagues and rules and folks are known by their preformance in those. Those deemed good are known as such in those circles. I'd think someone who only pubbed wouldn't be known in those, or to people who mainly pay attention to those. Plus it's hard to judge a top world player when you really only have a small percentage of a game's playerbase playing competitively. I guess you could judge who's the best in the world within a competitive community, but it would be almost impossible to see how well someone is playing if they aren't bothering to put themselves in any sort of spotlight.
Eh, made sense at the time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly, not only are chances that the player isn't the best because he is playing with a smaller population of the NS community, but in addition there is no standard to compare them to unless they clan.
Think, of a pub as like playing on a high school team. Then you have your entry level clan, aka a college team. Then you have your top 6 teams, aka your professional team. At one point the NS community could be divided into the top 10 teams, but the NS community is no longer big enough to support that.
Then, out of the top 6 teams you can generally identify the best players. Do this with the euro scene as well and you can find all the PT's you need.
<!--QuoteBegin-Alkiller+Oct 21 2004, 06:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Alkiller @ Oct 21 2004, 06:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, a_civilian is a pretty good player, and he's not in a clan. So yeah there are people who aren't in clans and are very skilled, just not many... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> /jumping up and down while hand raised
I wanna help! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
the othe problem I could see is that if you make the TOP players PT. Then they have to devote more time to playing NS. This could potentualy make it so they dont have enough time to practice with thier team to stay on top. Thus they would prob make sacrifises in one or two areas.
Also. If they are practacing the latest version, like 5 people in a specific clan get the bonus of getting to practice in the latest version thats unfair for other clans.
So if lets say the top 4 clans get it. they will more likely stay on top since they can practices new version
The only way around this is to make the beta open for all clan.
Sorry it may seem a little off topic but it ull work in <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
NS Stats that I am trying to develop is kind of a response to this decentralized who is better than who. I am very interested in seeing who is the best person but its going to take some time.
Back to the conversation. I think that PTing does not take hours and hours from what I am hearing from the other conversations. But the top ones could lose advantage if they over play new builds.
But it then goes back to the issue of PT's testing balance and its been said quite a few times that they are not.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of DOOOM+Oct 21 2004, 06:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 21 2004, 06:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the othe problem I could see is that if you make the TOP players PT. Then they have to devote more time to playing NS. This could potentualy make it so they dont have enough time to practice with thier team to stay on top. Thus they would prob make sacrifises in one or two areas.
Someone who is focused on just play testing, will be a good play tester. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, because people aren't scrimming 24/7
Im sorry forlon, but I did an edit before you posted <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Theres just so many inactive PTs I can name off teh top of my head, theres no reason to have quite so many who hardly even play anymore:
Romano STEAMED HAMBONE Brad Othell Churro RaiN Roq etc.
I know many of these players may have played a huge role in the NS community once upon a time ago, but if they hardly even play the game anymore, whats the point?
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
I'm a good player...and am very good with people...and would, say, make a good PT...*nudge hint bump caress* <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i find it kind of funny that i started a friendly "w00t, its coming" thread that turned into 22 pages of arguments. didnt think such a harmless topic would be so active
<a href='http://homestarrunner.com/interview.html' target='_blank'>If you want to PT, you're probably going to have to be interviewed.://If you want to PT, you're proba...be interviewed.://If you want to PT, you're proba...be interviewed.</a> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Oct 21 2004, 07:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Oct 21 2004, 07:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I killed Forlorn in a pug today, therefore I am better than him!!!
I WIN! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *coughs*
<ul><li>Original point of the topic long abandoned? Check.</li><li>New points pretty much ended, as well, with other topics more fit for further discussion? Check.</li><li>Unprovoced hostilities against third parties not at all involved in the thread? Check.</li></ul> <span style='color:red'>***Locked.***</span>
Comments
Anyhow, I use clanners with "highly skilled players" because chances are very likely if you are good then you are a clanner. However there are exceptions, there is always pub talent and stuff, but I do not know one player who is amoung the top in the world and only pubs. They can still be good but never the best untill they clan.
Makes sense too, as competition breeds skill... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can rephrase it all you like, but the same arguement still holds. You, the "highly skilled players" will be given an advantage over the clanners who did not qualify as "highly skilled players".
Anyhow, I use clanners with "highly skilled players" because chances are very likely if you are good then you are a clanner. However there are exceptions, there is always pub talent and stuff, but I do not know one player who is amoung the top in the world and only pubs. They can still be good but never the best untill they clan.
Makes sense too, as competition breeds skill... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can rephrase it all you like, but the same arguement still holds. You, the "highly skilled players" will be given an advantage over the clanners who did not qualify as "highly skilled players". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is this 'advantage' thing. Playtesting and helping balance a game isn't an 'advantage'. You may say that, 'oh this clan PTer dude got to see a new build before the others. That doesn't make it unfair. There is a lot more to competitive matches than getting to see what new maps are in, what changes are made before the others. Good clans always manage to adapt when necessary.
Anyhow, I use clanners with "highly skilled players" because chances are very likely if you are good then you are a clanner. However there are exceptions, there is always pub talent and stuff, but I do not know one player who is amoung the top in the world and only pubs. They can still be good but never the best untill they clan.
Makes sense too, as competition breeds skill... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can rephrase it all you like, but the same arguement still holds. You, the "highly skilled players" will be given an advantage over the clanners who did not qualify as "highly skilled players". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Simba is... he'd whoop ALL of you... he was in my old clan, and is looking at joining my current one (the old one dissolved after he left in disgust with the lack of dedication... much as I did) and he has got to be one of THE best I've seen.
Anyhow, I use clanners with "highly skilled players" because chances are very likely if you are good then you are a clanner. However there are exceptions, there is always pub talent and stuff, but I do not know one player who is amoung the top in the world and only pubs. They can still be good but never the best untill they clan.
Makes sense too, as competition breeds skill... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can rephrase it all you like, but the same arguement still holds. You, the "highly skilled players" will be given an advantage over the clanners who did not qualify as "highly skilled players". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, you misunderstand me. The "highly skilled players" will not be given an advantage over regular clanners, because <b>regular clanners will not have PT access, or at least the kind of testing access I'm talking about.</b> Only the highly skilled ones.
I wouldn't be surprised if you wouldn't hear of a top world player who only pubs. In competitive play, people set up their own leagues and rules and folks are known by their preformance in those. Those deemed good are known as such in those circles. I'd think someone who only pubbed wouldn't be known in those, or to people who mainly pay attention to those. Plus it's hard to judge a top world player when you really only have a small percentage of a game's playerbase playing competitively. I guess you could judge who's the best in the world within a competitive community, but it would be almost impossible to see how well someone is playing if they aren't bothering to put themselves in any sort of spotlight.
Eh, made sense at the time.
I wouldn't be surprised if you wouldn't hear of a top world player who only pubs. In competitive play, people set up their own leagues and rules and folks are known by their preformance in those. Those deemed good are known as such in those circles. I'd think someone who only pubbed wouldn't be known in those, or to people who mainly pay attention to those. Plus it's hard to judge a top world player when you really only have a small percentage of a game's playerbase playing competitively. I guess you could judge who's the best in the world within a competitive community, but it would be almost impossible to see how well someone is playing if they aren't bothering to put themselves in any sort of spotlight.
Eh, made sense at the time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, not only are chances that the player isn't the best because he is playing with a smaller population of the NS community, but in addition there is no standard to compare them to unless they clan.
Think, of a pub as like playing on a high school team.
Then you have your entry level clan, aka a college team.
Then you have your top 6 teams, aka your professional team. At one point the NS community could be divided into the top 10 teams, but the NS community is no longer big enough to support that.
Then, out of the top 6 teams you can generally identify the best players. Do this with the euro scene as well and you can find all the PT's you need.
/jumping up and down while hand raised
I wanna help! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also. If they are practacing the latest version, like 5 people in a specific clan get the bonus of getting to practice in the latest version thats unfair for other clans.
So if lets say the top 4 clans get it. they will more likely stay on top since they can practices new version
The only way around this is to make the beta open for all clan.
which is basicly how it is now.
GG devs being 4 steps ahead of everyone
NS Stats that I am trying to develop is kind of a response to this decentralized who is better than who. I am very interested in seeing who is the best person but its going to take some time.
Back to the conversation. I think that PTing does not take hours and hours from what I am hearing from the other conversations. But the top ones could lose advantage if they over play new builds.
But it then goes back to the issue of PT's testing balance and its been said quite a few times that they are not.
Someone who is focused on just play testing, will be a good play tester. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, because people aren't scrimming 24/7
I WIN!
Romano
STEAMED
HAMBONE
Brad
Othell
Churro
RaiN
Roq
etc.
I know many of these players may have played a huge role in the NS community once upon a time ago, but if they hardly even play the game anymore, whats the point?
^wierd forum bug? It keeps repeating stuff...^
I WIN! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*coughs*
BTW that is really zunni in that avatar...
lorf?
<span style='color:red'>***Locked.***</span>