<!--QuoteBegin-ding``+Oct 2 2004, 04:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ding`` @ Oct 2 2004, 04:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't think my wpolies are low on every place of that map... there are unfinished parts in which the wpolies are on 4000 and more - but without the doors and visual obstacles - we will see what happens if I add all this stuff. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So we go from 200 - 300 to 4000. When telling us your r_speeds we don't want the lowest number you could find, we want the number that most frequently shows itself.
Again, post some pics with r_speeds 1 on, I'd like to see what it looks like.
damn!! ding you gave me some inspiration for my novel <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> thx dude!! I really should more often take a look at the mapping forum
Sooner or later, maps with this level of detail will be the standard. It may not be playable with current resource limits for NS, but it's a god damn beautiful map and I love the detail work you're doing here.
I apologize for people that doubted it was your work at first, but this forum has seen a lot of people faking the funk and plagiarizing, so their suspicion at seeing such an awesome map was at least somewhat understandable.
Keep up the good work, even if we can't play this map, it's a work of art and I'd love to see it finished. Maybe it'll be good enough for a future AS-OF-YET-NONEXISTANT NS-related project!
<!--QuoteBegin-TyrNemesis^+Oct 2 2004, 11:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TyrNemesis^ @ Oct 2 2004, 11:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sooner or later, maps with this level of detail will be the standard. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm sure alot of here can make maps to that detail, just with NS being on the HL engine, we don't. But yeah I fully agree it will be the normal soon, most likely with the release of HL2 when we can move on to a better engine using the same tools to create.
<!--QuoteBegin-TyrNemesis^+Oct 2 2004, 11:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TyrNemesis^ @ Oct 2 2004, 11:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sooner or later, maps with this level of detail will be the standard. It may not be playable with current resource limits for NS, but it's a god damn beautiful map and I love the detail work you're doing here.
I apologize for people that doubted it was your work at first, but this forum has seen a lot of people faking the funk and plagiarizing, so their suspicion at seeing such an awesome map was at least somewhat understandable.
Keep up the good work, even if we can't play this map, it's a work of art and I'd love to see it finished. Maybe it'll be good enough for a future AS-OF-YET-NONEXISTANT NS-related project! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Or even the "NS Most Detailed And Aestetically Pleasing Map Competition" similar to a CS one held by a German website a year or 2 ago.
I have to work on that map and when it is finished (Beta 1 or whatever) we will see if it is playable <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> - I try to make the field of view as small as I can that everyone can play this map using this level of detail.
well, the problem with visblockers in ns is, that a lerk or a jp can fly to every point in the map, so you get a problem especially in big high rooms that are connected to more than 1 room and have detailed brushwork inside like your screens do and there are other limitations like max patches, max brushes and max clipnodes of course, if you manage to create a map looking like this and being playable with 700 wpolys, your the mapping king and we mortal beings are all kinda <img src='http://www.btinternet.com/~alpass/0wned3.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Some cheats for the stone-block walls in the first picture.
-put a clip brush over them to reduce clip nodes and make it impossible for players to climb it or get snagged on it.
- Cover the brush behind the stones in NULL and use a func wall protruding 1 unit from this brush covered in stone to hide it up. func_walls are not cut up into bits when they intersect other geometry. This should save alot of w-polies.
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> Thats awsome, if you can make that map playable it HAS To be official, no matter how badly balanced it will be <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2500. that was my first thought when I looked at this first hammer shot. I think some of us have enough experience to roughly determine the polycount just by such a simple shot. when you tell me, that this shot is a ?x100 area, I would call you a lier, because that is definetely NOT possible! so I guees 2500 is more like it, isnt it? but I what I really would like to see is this "finished" area. give the mappers something to prove it. simple thing, developer 1, r_speeds 1 and the gifted mappers knows whats happening <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
although in my opinion this is a waste of time because sooner ofr lateryou will have no resources left to finish the map, then you have to rework. buts its YOUR freetime <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Looks very cool but the crazy ammount of polygons will make it unplayable for the majority. Not all of have brand-new computers at this moment you know.
It's not even a matter of the strength of the computer. It's the strength of the engine that becomes the worst problem. Whether or not your computer can run Doom 3 in 1600x1200 with all the detail levels turned to max while also calculating pi out to 70 billion digits and rendering a complex fractal is unimportant. The fact remains that the map is getting bottlenecked through the very aged HL1 engine (which as we all know is really Quake 1 with the Quake 2 renderer) and that's going to slow it way down, because the engine simply isn't designed or optimized to work with this level of detail.
I'd suggest saving this map for the HL2 engine, which (if one believes the hype) should easily allow you to convert HL1 maps. I'm betting it would run with no problems on that engine, high poly count and all.
I beat this map will break all the HL limits <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->~~~~~~~
and from what I've seen you're using that bump mapping and detail textures ****, this will be a fps hell :O
<!--QuoteBegin-Minotaur0+Oct 5 2004, 02:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Minotaur0 @ Oct 5 2004, 02:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I beat this map will break all the HL limits <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->~~~~~~~
and from what I've seen you're using that bump mapping and detail textures ****, this will be a fps hell :O <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no bump-mapping implemented in NS and beta 5 doesn't allow detail textures. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-ding``+Oct 2 2004, 06:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ding`` @ Oct 2 2004, 06:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't think my wpolies are low on every place of that map... there are unfinished parts in which the wpolies are on 4000 and more - but without the doors and visual obstacles - we will see what happens if I add all this stuff. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think this has been mentioned before, but in case you didn't realize, doors do NOT block VIS. Don't count on them to lower poly-counts -- in fact, with all the trims and bevelling required for doors, they will simply add to them.
But there is bump mapping possible in the HL engine. See <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=77379&hl=bump' target='_blank'>here</a>. Of course, you're right, it's not implemented in NS and never will be, it's a huge FPS drain and it's really just a proof of concept and not a usable feature.
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Oct 6 2004, 12:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Oct 6 2004, 12:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But there is bump mapping possible in the HL engine. See <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=77379&hl=bump' target='_blank'>here</a>. Of course, you're right, it's not implemented in NS and never will be, it's a huge FPS drain and it's really just a proof of concept and not a usable feature. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So why did you post this in the first place then? He never said it doesn't exist for HL, he said it's not implemented in NS <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
So we go from 200 - 300 to 4000. When telling us your r_speeds we don't want the lowest number you could find, we want the number that most frequently shows itself.
Again, post some pics with r_speeds 1 on, I'd like to see what it looks like.
~ DarkATi
Max: ~4000 Wpoly
I think the average is between 800 and 1300
I really should more often take a look at the mapping forum
I apologize for people that doubted it was your work at first, but this forum has seen a lot of people faking the funk and plagiarizing, so their suspicion at seeing such an awesome map was at least somewhat understandable.
Keep up the good work, even if we can't play this map, it's a work of art and I'd love to see it finished. Maybe it'll be good enough for a future AS-OF-YET-NONEXISTANT NS-related project!
I'm sure alot of here can make maps to that detail, just with NS being on the HL engine, we don't. But yeah I fully agree it will be the normal soon, most likely with the release of HL2 when we can move on to a better engine using the same tools to create.
I apologize for people that doubted it was your work at first, but this forum has seen a lot of people faking the funk and plagiarizing, so their suspicion at seeing such an awesome map was at least somewhat understandable.
Keep up the good work, even if we can't play this map, it's a work of art and I'd love to see it finished. Maybe it'll be good enough for a future AS-OF-YET-NONEXISTANT NS-related project! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or even the "NS Most Detailed And Aestetically Pleasing Map Competition" similar to a CS one held by a German website a year or 2 ago.
I have to work on that map and when it is finished (Beta 1 or whatever) we will see if it is playable <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> - I try to make the field of view as small as I can that everyone can play this map using this level of detail.
and there are other limitations like max patches, max brushes and max clipnodes
of course, if you manage to create a map looking like this and being playable with 700 wpolys, your the mapping king and we mortal beings are all kinda
<img src='http://www.btinternet.com/~alpass/0wned3.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
OMG NS:SOURCE!!!
-put a clip brush over them to reduce clip nodes and make it impossible for players to climb it or get snagged on it.
- Cover the brush behind the stones in NULL and use a func wall protruding 1 unit from this brush covered in stone to hide it up. func_walls are not cut up into bits when they intersect other geometry. This should save alot of w-polies.
Thats awsome, if you can make that map playable it HAS To be official, no matter how badly balanced it will be <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
so I guees 2500 is more like it, isnt it?
but I what I really would like to see is this "finished" area. give the mappers something to prove it. simple thing, developer 1, r_speeds 1 and the gifted mappers knows whats happening <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
although in my opinion this is a waste of time because sooner ofr lateryou will have no resources left to finish the map, then you have to rework. buts its YOUR freetime <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Love the design though. Looks crazy cool.
I'd suggest saving this map for the HL2 engine, which (if one believes the hype) should easily allow you to convert HL1 maps. I'm betting it would run with no problems on that engine, high poly count and all.
and from what I've seen you're using that bump mapping and detail textures ****, this will be a fps hell :O
and from what I've seen you're using that bump mapping and detail textures ****, this will be a fps hell :O <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no bump-mapping implemented in NS and beta 5 doesn't allow detail textures. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I don't think this has been mentioned before, but in case you didn't realize, doors do NOT block VIS. Don't count on them to lower poly-counts -- in fact, with all the trims and bevelling required for doors, they will simply add to them.
So why did you post this in the first place then? He never said it doesn't exist for HL, he said it's not implemented in NS <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->