Doom3 Engine And Ns

13

Comments

  • Lt_GravityLt_Gravity Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15909Members
    edited September 2004
    I think ns will ported as dod and cs will be.

    but to compare doom3 with hl (no matter if 1 or 2) is not fair... because hl HAS GOT a community <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> only the current number of active "hl1"-players will be enough to "beat" doom. and that is where the problem starts: I dont think any game with mp ability will "destroy" hl in the next years. and when there is a game that can do it.. then it doesnt matter to me because im 50 years old and doesnt play ANY game. except "monopoly" in reallife <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
    and tw: mapping for 6 years on one engine will make you kind of prejudiced against ANY mp egoshooter. to be honest: the highend games that had been released and the games that will e released doesnt impress me much. its like all other games: one kickass idea but the sequels lack NEW ideas. and like someone said before: it doesnt matter which engine, it does matter what the people achieve with it.
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    <!--QuoteBegin-unrealX+Sep 17 2004, 07:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (unrealX @ Sep 17 2004, 07:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i think if ns was put on the D3 engine it would not look as good as if it was on source. D3 has a very fake/glossy look on every thing ( but doom3 is very nice in all) BUT souce woud make NS look REAL [ take a pitcure of hl2 and show it to some one who is not a gamer and tell them its a live action movie and see what they say .....i bet they wont know it is was a game. Do the same thing with D3 pic and i bet it would not work] NS on D3 engine = ok. Ns on source = "GODLIEK!!!!" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    So NS looks real because it uses the Half-Life engine, then.

    Awesome.
  • Lt_GravityLt_Gravity Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15909Members
    that reminds me on the hl hazardous course.

    "moving in your suit can be slightly disorienting at first." but obviously most of the players liked the style of movement in hl more than in any other mods. compared to other games, hl is quite "slow". but this seem to be more realistic, not like this lightspeed movements in ut or quake. it feels more precise.
  • frostymoosefrostymoose Join Date: 2003-09-12 Member: 20799Members
    edited September 2004
    "real-time lighting doesn't look as good (and natural) as the precompiled one, it's a fact."

    I'm so glad I could take this out of context and support the use of precompiled lighting in the real life engine. Then it would totally be more realistic and fun to play.

    "Anyways, you can't make D3 look like HL2, because real-time lighting doesn't look as good (and natural) as the precompiled one, it's a fact."

    Even in context, it's not neccessarily true.
  • MrBenMrBen ns_eclipse, ns_veil caretaker Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8575Members
    Player speed isn't defined by the engine but really by the game code. It was a design decision to give the player that speed in HL just like it was a design decision to give players the speed they have in ut2004 or whatever.

    An engine is merely a platform, think of it as a really big clothes shop. Different people will walk into the shop and will do different things and buy different clothes. Same shop, different looks when they come out. It can do any of the things you want and it was a design decision to look like XYZ. The engine HL uses wasn't hardcoded to look realistic.
  • HanzGrub3rHanzGrub3r Join Date: 2004-02-23 Member: 26823Members
    Lol..Attempt no. 2

    Pffft. You guys are all full of it. You wouldn't know a good engine if it hit you in the face. Lets face facts guys. NS2 isn't really suited to the Source engine or the Doom3 engine. Neither of those can do a good job (as each side has so beautifully displayed - *cough* fanboys *cough*).. So I've done some research into what is the most plausable graphics engine for NS2 and I have a number of options that I think it would be well worth Flayra's time exploring...

    <b>Here's the top 7 engine choices for NS2:</b>

    <b>Option #1</b>: Doom Engine
    <b>Description</b>: Whilst not a true 3d engine, it sure is pretty! Notice the high detail and contrasting light sources. Plus, I am a sucker for 2D sprite player models.
    <img src='http://www.purge.demon.co.uk/games/doom/doom_gant5.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    <b>Option #2</b>: Wolfenstein 3D Engine
    <b>Description</b>: True that it is in fact older than the original Doom engine - You have to admire it's pixelated beauty. This screenshot demonstrates clearly what a Nazi Skulk could look like
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/FPS/Wolfenstein_3D/Wolf3D_04.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    <b>Option #3</b>: Rise of The Triad Engine (Duke Nukem 3D Engine)
    <b>Description</b>: How could we not have this engine as a competitor for NS2. Show those Lerks no mercy with your Drunk Missiles and give the skulks some action with Akimbo Pistol goodness. Who needs dynamic lighting or even shadow mapped lighting when you have oodles of fire pillars! And, hey! You could look up and down in this engine too!
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/FPS/Rise_of_the_Triad/ROTT05.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/FPS/Rise_of_the_Triad/ROTT01.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    <b>Option #4</b>: Turok Engine
    <b>Description</b>: Turok is Primal. NS is Primal. The two just fit so well together and I think it just might change Flayra's opinion on the inclusion of the poison dart crossbow in NS2. Plus, NS is all about open environments - this would be perfect. We don't want to get caught on providing detail in any level. PLUS WE GET DINOSAURS!
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/FPS/Turok/Turok02.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    <b>Option #5</b>: Soldier of Fortune Engine
    <b>Description</b>: With gore and burning corpses a big priority for NS2, how can the team look any further than the SoF engine. Dismemberment and blood - it's what is lacking now and everyone knows it. We wont be happy until a skulk gets it's head torn from it's body in a bloody display of violent agression. (Sorry for the big picture - violence cannot be toned down)
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/FPS/Soldier_of_Fortune/SoldierofFortune20.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    <b>Option #6</b>: Outlaws Engine
    <b>Description</b>: Bringing NS to the old west was always a dream of mine and now I hope to make it the dream of the NS Dev Team. Forget realism and bring on the hand-drawn animation goodness. Who needs complicated 3D modelling when, with a bit of elbow grease, you can draw yourself a perfectly good sniper rifle. The sniper rifle, by the way, will be included in NS2 for the Cowboys and Kharaa scenarios.
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/FPS/Outlaws/Outlaws14.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    <b>Option #7</b>: Serious Engine (Serious Sam)
    <b>Description</b>: Forget 16 on 16 players. We need something that would more closely articulate the reality of the NS universe. Let's try 160 on 1. I know fairness is bound to be an issue but hear me out - arm our marine with a Ye Old Pirate Cannon, give him some witty dialogue and the agility to jump and dodge giant raging bulls and we may just have a winner here.. Add to that - no discernable theme, skeleton monsters, giant robots and an egyption backdrop - NS2 will go down in history as the most clever game ever produced...
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/FPS/Serious_Sam/Serious7.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    I'll leave the choice of which engine is best up to the NS Dev team. In the mean time, stop arguing about which fanboys have the best Doom3 or HL2 t-shirts - it's really quite sad.
  • BelgarionBelgarion Join Date: 2002-07-19 Member: 973Members
  • NetBentNetBent Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16386Members
    edited September 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-Mr.Ben+Sep 17 2004, 05:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr.Ben @ Sep 17 2004, 05:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Player speed isn't defined by the engine but really by the game code. It was a design decision to give the player that speed in HL just like it was a design decision to give players the speed they have in ut2004 or whatever. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I uh, hope you were joking. I knew people who picked up ns for the first time and began messing with walk speeds. It's quite common knowledge. Back in 1.04 you could make yourself walk faster to an extent. I would crawl too fast to stay cloaked.
  • FragBait0FragBait0 Join Date: 2003-12-16 Member: 24431Members
    Of course, NetBent hadn't bothered to notice that in NS walking backwards == slow. In Half-Life walking backwards had no affect on your walk speed.

    Or maybe the NS team hacked the engine to do that?
    Just like DoD did for its sprinting code....
  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    BTW:

    Radiant > Worldcraft/VHE

    ...sorry, just had to say it. I used to map a bit on VHE, but I'll only touch it if they actually make it worth using in source.
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-NetBent+Sep 17 2004, 09:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NetBent @ Sep 17 2004, 09:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mr.Ben+Sep 17 2004, 05:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr.Ben @ Sep 17 2004, 05:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Player speed isn't defined by the engine but really by the game code. It was a design decision to give the player that speed in HL just like it was a design decision to give players the speed they have in ut2004 or whatever. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I uh, hope you were joking. I knew people who picked up ns for the first time and began messing with walk speeds. It's quite common knowledge. Back in 1.04 you could make yourself walk faster to an extent. I would crawl too fast to stay cloaked. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If you press forward and alternate between left and right strafe keys you can get a 20-30% speed increase as the game stands right now. Strafe jumping and bunnyhopping also give signifigant speed increases. This is due to the fact that HL handles its movement code in an extreamly open way, so the developers can do alot that couldn't be done with one variable movement speed engines. Or the deves can do very little (the way the NS team has <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) and end up with a whole bunch of movement glitches like wall strafing and bunnyhopping.
  • BigDBigD [OldF] Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1596Members
    <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Nice work HanzGruber... nice work! lol

    (The first Turok game was such a great game. After that Aklaim just butchered the series, IMHO. A crime and a shame, I say.)
  • HanzGrub3rHanzGrub3r Join Date: 2004-02-23 Member: 26823Members
    Well..at least someone acknowledged my attempt at a humorous post...BLAH!
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    The wolf3d engine was totally awesome.
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Sep 18 2004, 10:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Sep 18 2004, 10:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The wolf3d engine was totally awesome. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah I also vouch for that, although I would rather see NS 2 on the ZX Spectrum with a niceley designed cassette!
  • tankefugltankefugl One Script To Rule Them All... Trondheim, Norway Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    HanzGrub3r <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    That's one of the best posts so far in the "OMG ENGINE!!!1" debate.
  • HanzGrub3rHanzGrub3r Join Date: 2004-02-23 Member: 26823Members
    <b>NS2 Engine Debate: Part 2</b>

    It seems in my haste I have forgotten many viable options. These options have been brought to my attention by those in the HL community in the last couple of hours. I endevour to make sure that all options are thoroughly considered.

    <b>Option #8</b>: Alien Horde Engine
    <b>Description</b>: As you can see in the screenshot - this is clearly a keeper. All the signs have been showing us that NS2 needs to move away from the FPS/RTS genre and into the side-scrolling platform shooter. Notice the contrasting lighting and the female player model with mid-riff cut off shirt. Sexy and appealing to the female players out there.
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/Arcade-Platform/Alien_Horde/AlienHorde02.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    <b>Option #9</b>: Mortal Kombat Engine
    <b>Description</b>: Forget harvesting goop and building nonsense advancements and cut straight to the finishing moves. I wanna hear "Fatality" ring out across all NS players pc's. Skulk vs Lerk, Marine vs Onos and Marine vs Marine - no holds barred! And think of the merchandising - Official NS2 Control Sticks! It's a gold mine I tell you!
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/Other/_Midway_Arcade_Treasures__2/3331Mortal_Kombat1Gameplay_FinishHim.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    <b>Option #10</b>: Simcity Engine
    <b>Description</b>: Granted, managing large scale metropolitan cities isn't really NS, but think about how far we could expand the universe. No longer do marines just conveniently get dropped into "an infested ship" - they have to build the whole city, manage taxes and solve traffic problems! The Kharaa are good but can they juggle attacking marines and waste management at the same time! Bring NS2 out of the box and into the real world!
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/Sim-Tycoon/Sim_City_2000_Network_Edition/SimCity2000_02.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    <b>Option #11</b>: Enter the Matrix Engine
    <b>Description</b>: In my opinion, there has never been enough Kung-fu in NS. NS2 has the chance to rectify this very problem. I know system specs will be high but I think the pay-off of having little (to none) loading times and seamless levels is worth it. Imagine running through Eclipse only to find that you've entered Veil without even realising it. Imagine the possibilities! NS2 Levels so big that you can get lost in them - time and time again! Add to that the "focus" ability and shoot-dodging - there can be nothing cooler than a Skulk diving out of the way of a stream of bullets. Think about it. Seriously!
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/Action/Enter_The_Matrix/screenshots11.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    <b>Option #12</b>: Battlefield Engine
    <b>Description</b>: It's always bugged me on the lack of decent Marine hardware in NS. Now we have a chance to fix this problem! Bring NS outdoors and give those poor Marine grunts what they really need - Aircraft carriers and Tanks! Nothing says sexy like a huge Destroyer bombing the crap out of a herd of Onos rumbling up a hill. Did I say herd? That's right baby! 32 on 32 players. Balance issues? not at all, we can even tailor the fighter planes to be flyable by your friendly neighbourhood skulk.
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/Action/Battlefield_1942/philippines_large_01.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    <b>Option #13</b>: Blood Engine (Modified Doom Engine)
    <b>Description</b>: What NS lacks in hanging corpes and pitchfork action - The Blood Engine will provide. NS has always been too far on the PG-13 side of things. Lets bring it in to the 21st century with style. Nothing like killing a Marine with your bare jaw and then stringing him up on the high resolution textured wall.
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/FPS/Blood/Blood03.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    <b>Option #14</b>: Heretic Engine (Modified Doom Engine)
    <b>Description</b>: Lets bring NS2 back to reality shall we? It's all well and good - but seriously, it's a little far-fetched. What this game needs is some good old fashioned medievil monsters with kick-butt green glowing crossbows. (Look closely at the advanced Bump-mapping and dynamic projected light-sources)
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/FPS/Heretic/Heretic09.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    <b>Option #15</b>: House of The Dead 2 Engine
    <b>Description</b>: Chainsaws are cool. iD recognized this in the doom series of games. It's time we look to the future of gaming and embrace the three most important things in making a good game - Light-guns, Thin plot-lines and Chainsaw wielding zombies. Granted, NS2 would be a 1 or 2 player game and the option for multiplayer would have to be removed, but who cares - Chainsaw wielding zombies baby! (OMG! I didn't even notice! This zombie has akimbo chainsaws! An Akimbo Chainsaw Wielding Zombie! WOOT!)
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/Action/House_of_the_Dead_2/HouseoftheDead2_04.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    <b>Option #16</b>: Blakestone Engine (Modified Wolf 3d Engine)
    <b>Description</b>: I don't know how I missed this in Part 1 of my engine search. Sure we can talk about the need for medievil monsters, hanging corpes, large scale economy management and battleships - but clearly the answers for NS2 are all here. What NS lacks now in graphical brilliance can and will be made up for in NS2 - IF Flayra opts for the BlakeStone Engine. In my opinion, NS has always lacked futuristic soldiers with green berets and big grins. Lets put the Nice Smile back into Natural Selection.
    <img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/FPS/Blake_Stone/BlakeStone01.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><img src='http://img.gamershell.com/imagefolio/gallery/FPS/Blake_Stone/BlakeStone02.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
  • NaigelNaigel Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18376Members, Constellation
    Those are some mighty good posts you have there...

    Ya, it made me laugh... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • Browser_ICEBrowser_ICE Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6944Members
    edited September 2004
    I've always wondered about how my Pre/S models would look in Doom3. It's atmosphere look does appeal to an NS environement.

    I could try it but I don't have time.


    By the way, the D3 editor has a problem with the shaders but a recent community PK4 file was release to fix it.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
  • GrizzlyGrizzly Join Date: 2003-10-27 Member: 22025Members
    nice posts

    sim city network owns all

    why not gameboy ns ? then you coud have it whith you all the time ! base it on pokémon !
    imagin training the best gorge evah !
    got to pwn tehm all~ !!!!
  • MidoMido Join Date: 2004-04-05 Member: 27742Members
    While we're at it, lets port NS to Torque! OH YEYZ!

    -_-

    Just wait for HL2, and even then we might not get what we want.
  • NetBentNetBent Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16386Members
    +6 for the Blake Stone engine.
  • BigDBigD [OldF] Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1596Members
    NS-imCity would so own. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • HanzGrub3rHanzGrub3r Join Date: 2004-02-23 Member: 26823Members
    I wonder...would it be worthwhile digging up more engine options?

    (for those who don't know - there is another engine options post on page 5 or 6)

    My personal choice for NS2 would be the serious sam engine..but hey, that's just me.. BlakeStone was the original reason why I upgraded to 4mb of ram..so I'm kind of fond of it's pixelated green beret goodness..nothing more frustrating than being told you don't have enough base ram (640k) to play a game - God bless DOS 6...
  • BelgarionBelgarion Join Date: 2002-07-19 Member: 973Members
    oh the days of dos, how i loved thee. 'Tis a shame thou hast been replaced by so evil an entity known as Windows95. Thy commands were lost, and many crashes, locks, and screens of blue replaced our beloved "bad command or file name." Beloved c prompt of goodness, slayn by "start menu", nevermore to return to thy once beautiful prominance. Loose heart not, oh great Dos, for thou art remembered.
  • MooseMoose Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16248Members
    NS would look lovely on the Doom3 engine.

    The Doom3 engine is pretty and all but is has some serious FPS issue with even high end cards, let alone standard cards. I get 28 FPS on my brand new ATI card ATM, 400$ and i get 30 FPS max! I'm thinking about returning it and getting the new Nvidia card. Supposedly you can get 60 FPS on standard Nvidia cards <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Anyways, I was fiddling around with DOOMEDIT yesterday, and here's a pic of a hallway that kind of feels like NS IMO.

    <img src='http://members.cox.net/pavement1/doom.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
  • slickyslicky Join Date: 2004-09-15 Member: 31723Members
    that looks good moose, how do u do the tex lights and get the glow effect? its pathetic how few information resources they have for doom3 on the net.
  • HanzGrub3rHanzGrub3r Join Date: 2004-02-23 Member: 26823Members
    Blah, You guys just don't get it do you - NS2 will be made for HL2. It's that simple. All this fanboy argument stuff isn't going to change anything... That said, if Flayra would consider making NS2 in the BlakeStone engine, I'd be eternally grateful..
  • MavericMaveric Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-HanzGrub3r+Sep 19 2004, 07:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HanzGrub3r @ Sep 19 2004, 07:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Blah, You guys just don't get it do you - NS2 will be made for HL2. It's that simple. All this fanboy argument stuff isn't going to change anything... That said, if Flayra would consider making NS2 in the BlakeStone engine, I'd be eternally grateful.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No more hitbox errors, at least. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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