Long games FTW! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
To be honest I also feel that latest versions of NS are too fast, it's like: /teamsay "do we have a decent fade? no? k" /say "gg". Same can apply to marines in certain circumstances, won't deny it, but I think the early fade/getting 2nd hive is a good example
the biggest problem is the res-for-kill effect. in earlier version, if marines where putting up a siege/phase, you could just trow skulks at it untill they got it built or you tore it down... nowadays if you do that, you leave the marines in a superior place even if you manage to take out the position, simply because they got alot of Res from killing the rushing skulks.
Bistromath is also right, it also has to do with our mad 1337 skills. (sorry, had to) long ago b4 the rfk think things were much harder on both sides, i never noticed rfk do much for the ailens unless it was very early (i useually save up for hive 2) but when a lone lmg'r went in and cleard the room of a gorge and its 2 pets bam, your over halfway to a new turret.
if rfk goes there is the downside that ns will be less noob friendly.
<!--QuoteBegin-IBT+Sep 11 2004, 08:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IBT @ Sep 11 2004, 08:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if rfk goes there is the downside that ns will be less noob friendly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> well the noobs can play combat, and we can have a great time playing NS <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
seriously tho, I see a lot of people in agreement on this topic, which is something very special on the NS forums. I think the devs need to look at this thread.
I loved NS because of that 'epic' feel that no other game had at the time. For the most part that is gone now, but I had a 75 min game a few days ago that totally rekindled that fun. We have fast-paced combat now, there is really no reason to fiddle with the settings so that normal ns is over in 15min.
Removing RFK I think would be the biggest step in the right direction, it puts the sucess of the team squarely on the shoulders of strategy, not kills. The aliens can't get 5 min fades, protecting resnodes becomes extremely important (its kind of a 'save it if you have the time' mentality these days) as the only source of res, and an all-out suicide rush on a critical location will not pour res to the other team.
I'm guessing it would be possible to mod this into NS, if not could servers get an option for turning of RFK?
The simple reality is that the dev's made the mistake of balancing for 6 vs 6.
No one plays 6 vs 6 except clans, and since clans are a small minority of dedicated players, they should be considered a second priority in comparison to public play.
The average pub server for Half Life is a 16 person server. The average pub server that has heavy traffic in NS is somewhere around 20-22.
So, NS is balanced for a 12 person server; the average pub is 20-22 person.
Now, the entire fate of the alien team hinges on the existence of a half decent fade. If there is no 5 minute fade, the alien team is doomed.
That's rediculous, and surely the devs must know that. When the default alien unit cannot be effective after the first few minutes of the game (once marines have MT and armor 1), that is a hard thing to overcome, and hurts the alien team significantly.
I say: give skulks an AP boost of +10, give lerks an AP boost of +15, remove RFK, increase the cost of marines upgrades, particularly MT, and also the amount of time it takes to research these items. Increase the hive cost, decrease lerk cost to 25 res, do not unchain chambers, fix alien spawn system to balance out better with the marine spawn system. Increase fade cost to 60 res, increase onos cost to 80 res. Decrease the OC cost to 7 res. Increase fade/onos gestate times by 30 %.
Oh yeah, I forgot...balance the alien res system.
The default alien unit is slightly stronger, making it a more effective early game class. The slower upgrade speed prevents marines from grabbing MT and armor 1 in the first few minutes. The lack of RFK makes the game run slower as a whole, making 5 minute fades impossible. Instead of the first 5 minutes deciding the game, the first 10 minutes are slower expansion by both sides, with the marines now forced to work more in slower moving groups than before.
Basically, the game should have changes to slow the critical early expansion period of the game down. Make the beginning of the game less a rush for hives, RT, and fades, and more a territory battle, with real ambushes, real tactics, etc.
This also solves the DMS order; without a fade for the first 10 minutes, and without the rush-rush-rush aspect of the early game, MT or SC is far more effective for ambushes and slowing down marine expansion.
I agree that the longer, more epic games were what made my day. Sure, I started playing around 2.0, but I still remember playing games where we would lose after 60 minutes and, despite our team losing, we would be like "that was an awesome game". You just can't get that in the new betas. Not by a long shot.
As you can tell from my post count i either havnt played in ages or i am a total n00b. the former is the case. I remember games lasting nearly two hours, and enjoyed it all the more for this. I think if now that its got combat, this should become the way for a "quick game" and normal game maps should become longer lasting, that way the player gets to choose how long he plays for
I rarely play games like that anymore. Back in 2.0 (admittedly when i was a noob) games were alot more fun. When on a good server, I still have fun, but these games are on average much shorter.
Res for kill is the devil. Motion tracking in the first few minutes of the game totally unbalances the game. Skulks need to get a power boost. Both marine and alien RTs need a HP boost, res cost increase, and major build time increase. Leap needs to deal MUCH more damage.
Well, in general, an increase in build times would be great. A giant increase in research times would be great too.
I really don't understand why flayra would want to decrease game time. I mean, co got added to have a fast paced, easy to play game. Making NS fast paced really defeats the purpose of adding combat. NS should be about strategy.
I'm not saying that 3.0 can't have epic games, it just takes a high level of skill on both sides, which is hard to find on pub servers. I recently played a 40 minute game on the Lunixmonster, which was really awesome. We went from 1 hive to 2 to 3 to 2 to 1 to 2 to 3 and we finally won. Really epic, and lots of bile bombing on my part <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Games like that are fun for both teams. Everyone was like "wow that was a great game". Most of the games i play are just either my team owns up, or is owned.
I love that feeling 30 minutes into the game where I feel that the outcome of the game is still up in the air, that either team has an equal chance of winning.
The reason people enjoyed the game more back then was because NS was fresher and the nuisances of the game weren't fully fleshed out. But there's only so many times that you can see a skulk hanging on a corner or a few marines hurrying to get a phase gate up before the game gets old.
<!--QuoteBegin-rennex+Sep 11 2004, 02:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rennex @ Sep 11 2004, 02:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Epic is the most overused word on this forum.
The reason people enjoyed the game more back then was because NS was fresher and the nuisances of the game weren't fully fleshed out. But there's only so many times that you can see a skulk hanging on a corner or a few marines hurrying to get a phase gate up before the game gets old. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> read the post just before yours. The poster described an 'epic' game in 3.0. He enjoyed it. epic != 1.0x. It was much more frequent before, that was all. This has nothing to do with the 'freshness' of the game.
My 'ideal' version of NS would be v3.0, but the 'slippery slope' effect is much weaker to promote the back-and-forth battles. (and add blabbers <3)
I think the game got so fast and unforgiving because of the lack of decent defense. Back in the day of 1.04 aliens coud build huge WOLs that made it impossible for a 1337 CS rambo marine to waste the entire alien team while walking from res node to res node node knifewhoring them. Today aliens simply cannot afford to build OC and they sux ****. Half damage to HA. Half HP WTH. Same with turrents. Half damage to onos. They are both practically useless. But back in the day they were great and you could actually hold ground that you conquered. At least against rambo players. I say give the aliens back the possibility to place WOLs and those 5 min victorys either by a single 1337 rine or a JP rush would be a thing of the past. Slipperly slope is so horrible in NS cause a single player can decide the outcome of the game early on if hes skilled. Good Fades are GG same with a good shotgunner.
<!--QuoteBegin-AngryMonkey+Sep 10 2004, 02:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AngryMonkey @ Sep 10 2004, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Apologies if this sounds big headed, but I mainly comm, and i tend to choose the length of the game to make it as fun as possible for all involved. Obviously I cant always control the time, there are good and bad teams, but generally a decent comm can have a lot of influence on the length of a game (and also the fun factor involved)
The main idea I stick to is keeping the teams as even in upgrades and res control as possible, this makes for good even battles with both sides having lots of kills, deaths, carnage and fun.
E.g, if the marines are very good at shooting I wont lock down hives so the aliens can get 2 hives (although I rarly give them 3). This makes for a good 2 hive vs jetpacker/HA game. If the marines are poor, i'll lock down hives but go slow on the HA rollout so the marines/aliens are always involved in good/big battles (and sometimes when HA comes out recycle a hive so the aliens get 2 hives).
I personally say the comm is partly responsible for the fun of the game, a skilled comm can normally just lock down 2 hives, get JP/GL and bore the aliens to death (or whatever method you use), but that doesnt make a GOOD comm.
If either side starts to get bored or whatever i'll just do whatever I can to end the game quick...fun is the main aim. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is a perfect attitude, shared by almost none <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Before 1.04: Long games that were usually decided early but could go on for ever, and sometimes were turned...good fun usually as in that early stage aliens weren't always killed as soon as they were spotted.
1.04: **** **** ****, beginning of the rush mentality type game, where a 10 minute JP rush was the way forward, and that's if they were slow. No chance to ever get a second hive up before the game was over.
after 1.04: suddenly the fun came back, and what's better, the game was much closer, not decided so much in the early stages, and was much more open in the middle. When the game entered the beta's (constie) it got even better (be if to do with the servers used, skill level, whatever) and games either were decided early and ended early, or were fairly open and/or close fought at stages with either side looking like taking it.
after 3.0: as soon as combat came along, steam introduced some platform wide bugs, and all idea of fun was erased from the minds of the devs, things started going down hill, and it culminates now witth 3.0b5, where every game is shorter than 15 minutes yet still might as well only be 3 minutes long.
Bring back the old days where games could go on for two hours, where you would sweat blood and tears to take and re-take area's of the map and then finally someone would get the edge needed to take out a key area and draw that step closer to win the game, only for it all to be turned on its head 15 minutes later. As someone else said, you'd lose, but my god you felt like you'd been part of something amazing.
We joined this game, many of us, because of the unique RTS feel of this FPS, not because of the FPS feel of this FPS. The shooting is pretty damn easy, and the aliens are easy enough to get a good hold on with the usual length of practice...but where else can yo get such nail biting intense games online? No-where, and you certainly can't any more either.
The one thing I liked most about epic games: I remember when it meant something to be a ninja, because everybody else had to be holed up in base, and you were all alone, far, far away from any backup, frantically trying to bring up a phase inside the hive room. Now that's just what everybody does, though.
I never thought about the reason why people like me comm'ing. My average game is around 30 min. It seems like people enjoy it even more when I relocate to a hive and totally lock it down, by time aliens know whats going on we have HA and upgrades. I've had an 8 onos rush before in equib. We survived! I enjoy average length games of around 20-30 min. It gives you time to experiance the reason NS is unique. The games are never the same. With a rush, its the same ol same old... "bombsite A.... oh lets go bombsite b... ok... bombsite a...." Bleh.
But not when on team dosen't have a chance no matter if they are equally as skilled? One of the MAJOR flaws in quick games is that aliens do not have a commander, therefore they need more time to organize an effective response. The very short games are fine for clanners but in your pub the aliens get their buts kicked before they can get a rush organized.
Whenever I hear of long games my mind always goes back to one game on caged when the marines located to a vent system outside waste hive and blocked all the ways in with CCs and just weilded constantly whenever they were being bit. Turn arounds are still possible in the current version. It just requires teamwork, something thats usually unheard of.
I've bunkered into a have before and not walled, aliens have the whole map. one bacon into MS and a PG and the game turns around. Rambo JP put a pG near a hive with the rest heavys and it turns around. I remember in ns_bast where marines would bunker into engine, had a 3 hour game once with that. Turn arounds are possible, but it needs a fast thinking comm and players that know not to die.
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
The best game I ever had was 212 minutes on bast in 2.0. In fact, I probably had 4-5 long games in 2.0 on bast. But, we eventually won. We put up...I think it was 13 hives that game. Wow...
I totaly agree, i normally com and have done so since version one. Since Beta 3 i try and create thoes epic games again, marines for me in large games are no challange i can win 90% of the time in under 15min with semi compotent marines which is just borring.
What i like to do is give the aliens 2 hives and 5 res nodes and give marines 5 res and 1 hive then just hold the line for 20-30min till everyone has lots of upgrades then let all hell break loose!!
The nice side effect of this are new players are like whoah that was the coolest game ever!!! People actually bring up thoes games days/weeks after they happened which is a really rewarding thing for me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Search is your friend... Everyone talks about how they want epic battles and how fun they are...
The game is shorter now for a few reasons, res flow was speed up to decrease the lengh of time one team has to sit there and loose...
A big problem is that while one team can dominate the other because of map design hive rooms are usually alien friendly and the marines cant accually finish the game off with out the tediously long seigin process...
Epic battles also dont happen as often because each team knows how to use thier advantage they gained better then when we were all knew.. We know how to win. In pervious versions people not knowing where to go on maps led to difficulties in end games and mistakes comming often let the tides turn... Ocaasionally epic games occure but usally in marine favour sice they have defensive abilities..
Version 2.01 provided some fantastic battles! One game i com'd required 15min battles just to get 1 res node it was awesome the best game i have ever played(including clan matches).
Increasing res flow to speed up a game to stop those that would have to sit their and lose, because the game was decided so early, getting bored...is a poor thing to do. That was treating the symptoms, not the disease.
Well I only read the first post but the dn` vs cri game had a round go 43 minutes and while possibly interesting for hltv watchers it was purely because of sloppy play which in my mind does not equal a better game
Personally, I think the long NS rounds where control constantly shifted back and forward were the best games as well.
The reason why those games have all but dissapeared is IMO because NS got adapted to clan play. No clan in their right mind would like to play a match for a game where control keeps shifting. They want everything to be as concentrated on individual (individual in this case also means individual groups = clans) skill.
So Flayra turned to the clan players to ask for tips on how to improve the game. Leading to more clan friendly game, but totally screwed for public games.
Comments
To be honest I also feel that latest versions of NS are too fast, it's like: /teamsay "do we have a decent fade? no? k" /say "gg". Same can apply to marines in certain circumstances, won't deny it, but I think the early fade/getting 2nd hive is a good example
in earlier version, if marines where putting up a siege/phase, you could just trow skulks at it untill they got it built or you tore it down... nowadays if you do that, you leave the marines in a superior place even if you manage to take out the position, simply because they got alot of Res from killing the rushing skulks.
long ago b4 the rfk think things were much harder on both sides, i never noticed rfk do much for the ailens unless it was very early (i useually save up for hive 2) but when a lone lmg'r went in and cleard the room of a gorge and its 2 pets bam, your over halfway to a new turret.
if rfk goes there is the downside that ns will be less noob friendly.
if rfk goes there is the downside that ns will be less noob friendly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well the noobs can play combat, and we can have a great time playing NS <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
seriously tho, I see a lot of people in agreement on this topic, which is something very special on the NS forums. I think the devs need to look at this thread.
Removing RFK I think would be the biggest step in the right direction, it puts the sucess of the team squarely on the shoulders of strategy, not kills. The aliens can't get 5 min fades, protecting resnodes becomes extremely important (its kind of a 'save it if you have the time' mentality these days) as the only source of res, and an all-out suicide rush on a critical location will not pour res to the other team.
I'm guessing it would be possible to mod this into NS, if not could servers get an option for turning of RFK?
Just adding one more voice to the chorus.
No one plays 6 vs 6 except clans, and since clans are a small minority of dedicated players, they should be considered a second priority in comparison to public play.
The average pub server for Half Life is a 16 person server. The average pub server that has heavy traffic in NS is somewhere around 20-22.
So, NS is balanced for a 12 person server; the average pub is 20-22 person.
Now, the entire fate of the alien team hinges on the existence of a half decent fade. If there is no 5 minute fade, the alien team is doomed.
That's rediculous, and surely the devs must know that. When the default alien unit cannot be effective after the first few minutes of the game (once marines have MT and armor 1), that is a hard thing to overcome, and hurts the alien team significantly.
I say: give skulks an AP boost of +10, give lerks an AP boost of +15, remove RFK, increase the cost of marines upgrades, particularly MT, and also the amount of time it takes to research these items. Increase the hive cost, decrease lerk cost to 25 res, do not unchain chambers, fix alien spawn system to balance out better with the marine spawn system. Increase fade cost to 60 res, increase onos cost to 80 res. Decrease the OC cost to 7 res. Increase fade/onos gestate times by 30 %.
Oh yeah, I forgot...balance the alien res system.
The default alien unit is slightly stronger, making it a more effective early game class. The slower upgrade speed prevents marines from grabbing MT and armor 1 in the first few minutes. The lack of RFK makes the game run slower as a whole, making 5 minute fades impossible. Instead of the first 5 minutes deciding the game, the first 10 minutes are slower expansion by both sides, with the marines now forced to work more in slower moving groups than before.
Basically, the game should have changes to slow the critical early expansion period of the game down. Make the beginning of the game less a rush for hives, RT, and fades, and more a territory battle, with real ambushes, real tactics, etc.
This also solves the DMS order; without a fade for the first 10 minutes, and without the rush-rush-rush aspect of the early game, MT or SC is far more effective for ambushes and slowing down marine expansion.
I rarely play games like that anymore. Back in 2.0 (admittedly when i was a noob) games were alot more fun. When on a good server, I still have fun, but these games are on average much shorter.
Res for kill is the devil. Motion tracking in the first few minutes of the game totally unbalances the game. Skulks need to get a power boost. Both marine and alien RTs need a HP boost, res cost increase, and major build time increase. Leap needs to deal MUCH more damage.
Well, in general, an increase in build times would be great. A giant increase in research times would be great too.
I really don't understand why flayra would want to decrease game time. I mean, co got added to have a fast paced, easy to play game. Making NS fast paced really defeats the purpose of adding combat. NS should be about strategy.
I'm not saying that 3.0 can't have epic games, it just takes a high level of skill on both sides, which is hard to find on pub servers. I recently played a 40 minute game on the Lunixmonster, which was really awesome. We went from 1 hive to 2 to 3 to 2 to 1 to 2 to 3 and we finally won. Really epic, and lots of bile bombing on my part <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Games like that are fun for both teams. Everyone was like "wow that was a great game". Most of the games i play are just either my team owns up, or is owned.
I love that feeling 30 minutes into the game where I feel that the outcome of the game is still up in the air, that either team has an equal chance of winning.
DEVS: Make NS long again please.
The reason people enjoyed the game more back then was because NS was fresher and the nuisances of the game weren't fully fleshed out. But there's only so many times that you can see a skulk hanging on a corner or a few marines hurrying to get a phase gate up before the game gets old.
The reason people enjoyed the game more back then was because NS was fresher and the nuisances of the game weren't fully fleshed out. But there's only so many times that you can see a skulk hanging on a corner or a few marines hurrying to get a phase gate up before the game gets old. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
read the post just before yours. The poster described an 'epic' game in 3.0. He enjoyed it. epic != 1.0x. It was much more frequent before, that was all. This has nothing to do with the 'freshness' of the game.
My 'ideal' version of NS would be v3.0, but the 'slippery slope' effect is much weaker to promote the back-and-forth battles. (and add blabbers <3)
The main idea I stick to is keeping the teams as even in upgrades and res control as possible, this makes for good even battles with both sides having lots of kills, deaths, carnage and fun.
E.g, if the marines are very good at shooting I wont lock down hives so the aliens can get 2 hives (although I rarly give them 3). This makes for a good 2 hive vs jetpacker/HA game. If the marines are poor, i'll lock down hives but go slow on the HA rollout so the marines/aliens are always involved in good/big battles (and sometimes when HA comes out recycle a hive so the aliens get 2 hives).
I personally say the comm is partly responsible for the fun of the game, a skilled comm can normally just lock down 2 hives, get JP/GL and bore the aliens to death (or whatever method you use), but that doesnt make a GOOD comm.
If either side starts to get bored or whatever i'll just do whatever I can to end the game quick...fun is the main aim. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a perfect attitude, shared by almost none <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1.04: **** **** ****, beginning of the rush mentality type game, where a 10 minute JP rush was the way forward, and that's if they were slow. No chance to ever get a second hive up before the game was over.
after 1.04: suddenly the fun came back, and what's better, the game was much closer, not decided so much in the early stages, and was much more open in the middle. When the game entered the beta's (constie) it got even better (be if to do with the servers used, skill level, whatever) and games either were decided early and ended early, or were fairly open and/or close fought at stages with either side looking like taking it.
after 3.0: as soon as combat came along, steam introduced some platform wide bugs, and all idea of fun was erased from the minds of the devs, things started going down hill, and it culminates now witth 3.0b5, where every game is shorter than 15 minutes yet still might as well only be 3 minutes long.
Bring back the old days where games could go on for two hours, where you would sweat blood and tears to take and re-take area's of the map and then finally someone would get the edge needed to take out a key area and draw that step closer to win the game, only for it all to be turned on its head 15 minutes later. As someone else said, you'd lose, but my god you felt like you'd been part of something amazing.
We joined this game, many of us, because of the unique RTS feel of this FPS, not because of the FPS feel of this FPS. The shooting is pretty damn easy, and the aliens are easy enough to get a good hold on with the usual length of practice...but where else can yo get such nail biting intense games online? No-where, and you certainly can't any more either.
One of the MAJOR flaws in quick games is that aliens do not have a commander, therefore they need more time to organize an effective response. The very short games are fine for clanners but in your pub the aliens get their buts kicked before they can get a rush organized.
What i like to do is give the aliens 2 hives and 5 res nodes and give marines 5 res and 1 hive then just hold the line for 20-30min till everyone has lots of upgrades then let all hell break loose!!
The nice side effect of this are new players are like whoah that was the coolest game ever!!! People actually bring up thoes games days/weeks after they happened which is a really rewarding thing for me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The game is shorter now for a few reasons, res flow was speed up to decrease the lengh of time one team has to sit there and loose...
A big problem is that while one team can dominate the other because of map design hive rooms are usually alien friendly and the marines cant accually finish the game off with out the tediously long seigin process...
Epic battles also dont happen as often because each team knows how to use thier advantage they gained better then when we were all knew.. We know how to win. In pervious versions people not knowing where to go on maps led to difficulties in end games and mistakes comming often let the tides turn... Ocaasionally epic games occure but usally in marine favour sice they have defensive abilities..
The reason why those games have all but dissapeared is IMO because NS got adapted to clan play. No clan in their right mind would like to play a match for a game where control keeps shifting. They want everything to be as concentrated on individual (individual in this case also means individual groups = clans) skill.
So Flayra turned to the clan players to ask for tips on how to improve the game. Leading to more clan friendly game, but totally screwed for public games.
<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>LING RUSH</span></span>