<!--QuoteBegin-Exer+Aug 30 2004, 09:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Exer @ Aug 30 2004, 09:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As for classical Combat, I guess all these changes will make an onos defend a 1 hive viable. Woot! Look out for all the res whoring that's going to happen. It's also probably going to make sieging that much harder on pub games. As usually, there are only a few marines doing what they are told and the aliens can now regen so much faster. Increase the range of the siege then to compensate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Increasing the range of the siege would require lots of changes in all the maps probably, since there are certain areas that aren't meant to be used to siege a hive that would be created.
If a new idea turns out to be horrifically unbalanced I trust that the Playtesters will point this fact out and the devs will either tweak it or remove it.
The fact that beta 5 is not yet in the public domain means that this feature still has a chance of being removed before release.
Playtests should be for testing <i>and</i> trying out new ideas in the process. Which is what seems to be happening.
<!--QuoteBegin-Chem+Aug 30 2004, 11:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chem @ Aug 30 2004, 11:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I didn't read it all but here's food for thought forlorn. Maybe the aliens are supposed to have an advantage when they have their hive healing them along with gorges and regen. PERHAPS THIS IS INTENDED? You know you could siege, use hmg's instead of shotguns or just jp around the hive and kill it. Maybe you should adapt instead of having a temper tantrum because you can't be a PT and slandering their ability to playtest "Possible" (note this word forlorn) Changes as in NOT FINAL Anyway this is my last post on this thread as I've said my spiel <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, it's not intended. I talked with Flayra at the CPL and he didn't think it was intended. Perhaps you don't know what you are talking about.
By the way, saying "Use seige!!1" is rediculous, you are effectively admitting that you can't charge into the hive room anymore. That's about the most rediculous thing I've ever heard come out of anyone. If the only way to take down a hive is to meticulously seige it for about 100 res, EVERY time, then it will be next to impossible to kill hives.
Nice one! Way to playtest.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What you're talking about there is exactly what I mean; testing the gameplay. That's different from actually balancing it, which is a job for the Developers. We can test those balance changes, and make suggestions, but making the changes isn't up to us.
Besides, going off on one about a feature that's being tested in a private build seems a bit excessive to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2 Things:
1. Testing for ( good gameplay = good balance) You can't have good gameplay with poor balance.
2. Going off on "one feature"?!? This "one feature" is probably more gamebreaking than the old techtree of 1.00 complete with unlimited fuel jetpack. Don't try and downplay it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Forlorn, trying to defend yourself with "evidence" of your social life just makes you look like an idiot, whether you have friends or not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are you talking about? Where's the evidence? Text on a page constitutes of evidence?
Also, what the hell is up with the C*B crew attacking threads en masse? You guys read the forum together over a voice chat program or something?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->alking about balance in public is really, really complicated.
Seems like most people already know how the game will be, without even playtesting the changes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you know as much about the game as I do and have played it, then yes, yes you would know the balance.
If you want, why don't you go find some good clanners that are playtesters, ask them what they think of regen overflow.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just wait until YOU can play it okay? It's being playtested ffs...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Already have, any other suggestions?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If a new idea turns out to be horrifically unbalanced I trust that the Playtesters will point this fact out and the devs will either tweak it or remove it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wanna point out to me how many times an unbalanced build has been released, or should I?
Call me crazy, but I was under the impression that the main idea behind the whole public beta was for large-scale balance testing. Beta 5 is not the final build. If the game is as completely broken, and the PTs as blatantly incompetent, as Forlorn's exagerrated arguments indicate, then it'll be easy to prove once the build is actually released and we can get it fixed. Until then, I see no particular benefit to moaning about what a terrible job the PTs are doing.
aye. if the pt's screw up on this build we'll get em by the long and dangleys, if forlorns comments on them being somewhat imcompetant or lazy are true.
however they are the PT's. picked by nemesis and flayra. i mean, they arnt gonna pick whackjobs to playtest for them. this is something that the dev team has slaved away on for a long time. they arnt gonna screw it up now.
in short: if they screw up on b5, go for the throat. if they dont, leave em be. but until such time as b5 is released, lay off them. they are, afterall, doing a job in their spare time, for free, and getting hassle over it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Aug 30 2004, 03:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Aug 30 2004, 03:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Until then, I see no particular benefit to moaning about what a terrible job the PTs are doing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes lets not try to fix a problem, lets just sit here and **** after the fact saying "OMG I KNEW WE SHOULD HAVE DONE "X" BUT I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING STUPID PTS FOR NOT READING MY MIND"
Your wording is harsh, but it gets the point accross- a little more though ought to go into these sort of decisions before implimenting them. Forlorn is merely vocalizeing (er, typing) his opinions.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you know as much about the game as I do and have played it, then yes, yes you would know the balance.
If you want, why don't you go find some good clanners that are playtesters, ask them what they think of regen overflow. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was not talking about you, probably because you already said that you played the beta5 build.... Btw, will the health regenerated by metabolize also overflow?
Nice work so far with the bugs Dev Team. Thanks for the updates Zunni, this is really what I have been waiting for in a long time, someone who actually updates the news with info about NS.
The lightgamma situation doesn't matter really, people will exploit that within the first day of the patch coming out and there is really nothing you can do to stop it. About overflow for regen, I definately want to try it out, I think Forlorn is going a little overboard with this rant.
Also you mentioned Marine Boosts, are you talking about ones in the previous post or do you mean the ones that you haven't told us yet?
Well I said I wasn't going to post again but I'll do it anyway
On the PT thing it came off as intended. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wow some of these PT"s have no idea how to balance a game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I suppose you coulda been more blunt and called them idiots. The fact of the matter is Forlorn outside of flayra and maybe 4 other people can stand you. No one likes you
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> By the way, saying "Use seige!!1" is rediculous, you are effectively admitting that you can't charge into the hive room anymore. That's about the most rediculous thing I've ever heard come out of anyone. If the only way to take down a hive is to meticulously seige it for about 100 res, EVERY time, then it will be next to impossible to kill hives.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is it rediculus? Tactics have changed with every single build of NS get used to it and adapt. Can't kill the fade under blinking around the hive. SHOOT THE HIVE. there's a stroke of genius. And to counter "BUT THE FADE WILL KILL YOU" generally you'll be in a group of marines toting shotgun/hmg's/gl's so I doubt 1 fade is a serious issue and it's not like he's going to be acid rocketing you from underneath the hive. Infact your blowing this entirely out of proportion and screaming like chicken little about how the sky is falling. Also on the playtest thing. They tried that remember forlorn. The vet program where flayra let all the clans in to test 2.1/3.0. Remember how everyone played combat instead of classic even after the major classic bugs were worked out. And infact they shutdown the combat servers just to get people to play classic? And don't you even dare say you tried because you were playing combat with everyone else so you're at fault like all of us. We had our chance and we blew it
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What are you talking about? Where's the evidence? Text on a page constitutes of evidence?
Also, what the hell is up with the C*B crew attacking threads en masse? You guys read the forum together over a voice chat program or something?
It seems you edited out "I was out with my friends comment as I can not locate it on this thread so meh Also user is gone so we're not on TeamSpeak to attack threads en masse
Since you seem to have an issue with basic read comprehension I'll break down this change as easily I can <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Regeneration now overflows health into armor in a single tick when applicable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That means if you're 69/0 as a skulk you get some armor in your next regen tick. This isn't some massive game play altering thing. In fact this change won't do jack squat vs a squad of marines. It'll help you if you retreat and regen but in all honesty 44 armor AT BEST regened won't make a difference vs 3 or more marines especially since in classic the fade won't have carapace. You've blown this out of proportion and questioning the some PT's ability to playtest and convieniently stated you should be a PT and blah blah <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE Just wait until YOU can play it okay? It's being playtested ffs...
Already have, any other suggestions?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wait a minute I thought you weren't a PT which you've painfully let us know atleast 5 times in this thread alone
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (ebnar) it doesn't have a heavy impact (user) regen overflow hasnt that been in forever (ebnar) it helps a lot but it won't make aliens godlike (ebnar) yeah it's been in since (ebnar like the third rc or what (ebnar) so it's nothing <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hey there's 2 clanners who are good and they don't think it makes aliens godlike looks like you lose on this one
So forlorn can you make yourself look stupid some more so I can pick your argument apart and force you to defend you internet reputation in vain some more?
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also you mentioned Marine Boosts, are you talking about ones in the previous post or do you mean the ones that you haven't told us yet?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are still changes I haven't mentioned but I was referring to the fact that my previous posts tended to show marine buff's only..
And thanks for the kind words, NS has needed a PR person for a while, and I think we are all seeing why..
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
Just out of curiousity Forlorn.. How long ago did you sit in on the PT??
Because many things have changed in the last 2-3 weeks (say 21 builds worth), and I'm sure many people would like to know how recent your experiences were?
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->in short: if they screw up on b5, go for the throat. if they dont, leave em be. but until such time as b5 is released, lay off them. they are, afterall, doing a job in their spare time, for free, and getting hassle over it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
B5 isn't a final build.. Our main goal was to fix some of the bugs that have been in NS for a while now...
Any balance changes that were added (or new features for that matter) are icing on the cake..
But don't base a final opinion on B5.. It's mainly a bug fix build (and you can see that from the announcement posts)
<!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Aug 30 2004, 04:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Aug 30 2004, 04:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just out of curiousity Forlorn.. How long ago did you sit in on the PT??
Because many things have changed in the last 2-3 weeks (say 21 builds worth), and I'm sure many people would like to know how recent your experiences were? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Is that to suggest that regeneration rates for the Alien team have changed? Whatever the outcome is, however, I'd still like to see how it plays out first-hand.
<!--QuoteBegin-exoity+Aug 30 2004, 11:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (exoity @ Aug 30 2004, 11:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn do you do anything besides play ns? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dude shut up please. Forlorn gave a very good explaination and then you act like an ****. gj.
<!--QuoteBegin-Al_Kaholic+Aug 30 2004, 11:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Al_Kaholic @ Aug 30 2004, 11:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Whatever the outcome is, however, I'd still like to see how it plays out first-hand. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, let's try it out first and then see. Worst case we would have to fix it.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Aug 30 2004, 04:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Aug 30 2004, 04:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just out of curiousity Forlorn.. How long ago did you sit in on the PT??
Because many things have changed in the last 2-3 weeks (say 21 builds worth), and I'm sure many people would like to know how recent your experiences were? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Is that to suggest that regeneration rates for the Alien team have changed? Whatever the outcome is, however, I'd still like to see how it plays out first-hand.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not implying that at all, but I suspect things may have since he was present. I'm not a big fan of people who have a portion of information making an opinion on a given subject...
Hmmm high lifeforms last longer... Marines drop ammo, so they also last longer... Will epic battles for hives be back? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
yay for interp being unlocked!
and regen overflow for the win, not to mention the removal of doors, it's like 1.04 to 2.0 all over again <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> [1.04 --> 2.00 saw alot of doors removed]
<!--QuoteBegin-todd10000+Aug 30 2004, 03:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (todd10000 @ Aug 30 2004, 03:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> aye. if the pt's screw up on this build we'll get em by the long and dangleys, if forlorns comments on them being somewhat imcompetant or lazy are true. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you really nieve enough to believe that if "something's wrong with a patch, we can just fix it!"
In the real world, this is the situation:
NS 3.0 b5 in all likely hood will be NS v. 3.0 final.
Zunni can tell you otherwise, but he doesn't know EVERYTHING Flayra is doing, only what he tells him.
Quick review of what happens between patches:
Version 1.1 anyone? Turned into v. 2.0.
2.1? ----> 3.0 beta builds which took up 5-6 months.
3.0 beta 5 builds? -----> 3.0 final
It's so obvious, I thought I wouldn't even have to point it out... b5 will be renamed version 3.0 final sooner or later. Flayra wants to move on with NS, he doesn't want to take baby steps, he doesn't want to keep playing with NS, he needs to keep his side of things growing or else without him NS will really be dead. He wants to move on with his life.
After all of the manpower behind 3.0 beta 5 so far, it's safe to assume it will be renamed to version 3.0 final. The impression I got from Flayra at the CPL was that he loves NS, but really wants it to be a finished product. Enough with the balance issues, enough with the betas.
Enough is enough, the time has come for a long lasting build. This is what he truely wants.
Beta 5 is not going to be a step, but it will be the top of the staircase.
Chem:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I suppose you coulda been more blunt and called them idiots. The fact of the matter is Forlorn outside of flayra and maybe 4 other people can stand you. No one likes you<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Calling people idoits is a flame
2. Should I report you for flambaiting?
3. What do you know? LOL "Oh my god guys, my e-popularity is falling!! Quick, quck, what do I do???" Here's the thing: I do what I think is right. I do not aim to be liked, I do not aim to please you. I aim to make this game as good as possible. I have learned and been told often that my "oppinions" are generally correct in regards to NS. I therefore share them, whether you like them or not.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since you seem to have an issue with basic read comprehension I'll break down this change as easily I can<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How hypocritical.
You said:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That means if you're 69/0 as a skulk you get some armor in your next regen tick. This isn't some massive game play altering thing. In fact this change won't do jack squat vs a squad of marines. It'll help you if you retreat and regen but in all honesty 44 armor AT BEST regened won't make a difference vs 3 or more marines especially since in classic the fade won't have carapace. You've blown this out of proportion and questioning the some PT's ability to playtest and convieniently stated you should be a PT and blah blah<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I said:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In other words, this hive regen system is rediculous. It may sound like "OMG like only 8 shots to make it so the regen won't overflow?" on paper... but in game versus a fade who is blinking around the hive is literally invincible. If you don't keep the damage up every second then he will be at full HP in no time, on top of this all the of the ammo you attempt to kill the fade is wasted as soon as you miss for one second, and you may have as well as fired at the wall, because the wall will die sooner than the fade in a hive room.
This is so bad for the onos I don't even need to describe it to you to understand, the lerk is also similiarly tough as he can just fly on top of the hive and be regened in a split second plus you need perfect aim to kill the lerk with hive regen, and finally the gorge will take twice as much abuse generally.
The only creature who doesn't benifit from the hive regen is the skulk.
And I do believe the general concensus is that the skulk is the only alien that may be too weak - so the hive regen does not help in the early game, and is crushing in the mid to late game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href='http://www.rhlschool.com/reading.htm' target='_blank'>I agree, reading comprehension is very important.</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wait a minute I thought you weren't a PT which you've painfully let us know atleast 5 times in this thread alone<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read what I posted
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hey there's 2 clanners who are good and they don't think it makes aliens godlike looks like you lose on this one<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I meant skilled ones, generally skilled players have much better understanding of gameplay mechanics. That is what makes them good players.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just out of curiousity Forlorn.. How long ago did you sit in on the PT??
Because many things have changed in the last 2-3 weeks (say 21 builds worth), and I'm sure many people would like to know how recent your experiences were? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sooner than you'd think, but in reality it doens't matter as the builds have been mostly bug changes, right? The only balance changes are few yet slightly significant.
In the downtime, I'm constantly updated by various sources whom I can trust.
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NS 3.0 b5 in all likely hood will be NS v. 3.0 final.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been watching from what's probably a better position to judge than you, and as far as I can tell, everything seems to point to the next release being beta 5, not 3.0 final. I'll be happy to eat those words if I'm proven wrong, but I really think that's the case.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Zunni can tell you otherwise, but he doesn't know EVERYTHING Flayra is doing, only what he tells him.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you do?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the downtime, I'm constantly updated by various sources whom I can trust.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's odd, because I thought Playtesters weren't supposed to be giving out information without getting it approved by Zunni or another Dev.
Guys, there is no need whatsoever to even mention someone's "omg social life!" or "omg e-reputation!" This is a discussion about what forlorn thinks to be a serious gameplay issue, so let's stick to that. I can't force you but I can just give out a friendly warning. I can already imagine coming back to this thread tomorrow and seeing everyone's post replaced with "Be Nice" <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Now, forlorn, maybe in b5 there will be a shift of tactics. S-I-E-G-E. You may say it costs 100 res, but that's 100 res to take down a hive. Instead of having HMGs and shotties, drop sieges and siege the hive! 5 LMG marines can hold back an onos or a fade for enough time for the sieges to go up. Commander pings, fades are scared of being hurt by sieges, and you've pretty much taken the hive. Shotty/HMG rushes are meant to be suprise tactics. You don't rush in there when there are 4 fades and 2 onos in there. If you do that, thern maybe you should lose.
I think that this will help out alot. No more "omg 2 hive lockdown we lose" for aliens. Fades can actually manage to take hives! This will help stop some of the lame and boring games, but it won't stop them all unfortunately. Yes aliens will be tough to kill on their home turf, but they won't be impossible, and if they are (which you've clearly assumed), then back out and siege for a tactical retreat. I think this just encourages siegeing. It isn't that big of a gameplay change.
Hey zunni, are you guys adding a "Hazard course" in this upcoming beta5? cause i really think you guys should do one, 2 many nubs are playing the game and getting owned or laughed at and not to mention getting LOST and been like "what's this big green thing attached to the wall there?" and "who's voice is that? that's real uggly voice" <------ alien computer talking...
so ya Hazard course would really help the mod a lot
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->meant skilled ones, generally skilled players have much better understanding of gameplay mechanics. That is what makes them good players.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hate to break it to you but ebnar and user have more skill in their index fingers then you have in your entire body. Infact they seem to have a better grasp on the beta 5 changes than you do as they've actually played it. So instead of pulling details out of your hind parts and saying you played the recent build which is very unlikely since you'd have to live near someone who was a PT and if you're like this in the real world I doubt anyone would want to be near you
Obviously you're not out to be liked or else you'd might be a PT. Sorry I implied that. That still brings the question forth. Why do you slander the PT's
Also on the reading comprehension <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In fact this change won't do jack squat vs a squad of marines. It'll help you if you retreat and regen but in all honesty 44 armor AT BEST regened won't make a difference vs 3 or more marines especially since in classic the fade won't have carapace. You've blown this out of proportion and questioning the some PT's ability to playtest and convieniently stated you should be a PT and blah blah<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh look the fade mentioned gee you musta just read the first sentence and ASSumed the rest *golf clap*
And here's a clue Forlorn. If you want to do what's right. Don't post and spare us your baseless arguements on something minor as regen overflow You haven't played it and going I PT"ED IT SOONER THAN YOU THINK WINK WINK Isn't backing up your claim. Infact it makes you look like a liar scrambling for some witty retort as your argument falls apart.
Also I sadly read what you posted. Just because you don't flat out say. I SHOULD BE A PT BECAUSE THEY'RE STUPID doesn't mean you didn't intend it. Hell I don't think there's a person here who thinks that wasn't intended as was brought up by the first person to read your post calling you out on it. Defend yourself if you must but it really is all in vain
I'll be awaiting your counter retort full of holes and basless facts so I tear that apart aswell
<!--QuoteBegin-project_demon+Aug 30 2004, 05:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (project_demon @ Aug 30 2004, 05:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hey zunni, are you guys adding a "Hazard course" in this upcoming beta5? cause i really think you guys should do one, 2 many nubs are playing the game and getting owned or laughed at and not to mention getting LOST and been like "what's this big green thing attached to the wall there?" and "who's voice is that? that's real uggly voice" <------ alien computer talking...
so ya Hazard course would really help the mod a lot <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Check the mapping forum, or rather <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=76128' target='_blank'>this thread.</a>
<!--QuoteBegin-Alkiller+Aug 30 2004, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Alkiller @ Aug 30 2004, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-project_demon+Aug 30 2004, 05:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (project_demon @ Aug 30 2004, 05:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hey zunni, are you guys adding a "Hazard course" in this upcoming beta5? cause i really think you guys should do one, 2 many nubs are playing the game and getting owned or laughed at and not to mention getting LOST and been like "what's this big green thing attached to the wall there?" and "who's voice is that? that's real uggly voice" <------ alien computer talking...
so ya Hazard course would really help the mod a lot <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Check the mapping forum, or rather <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=76128' target='_blank'>this thread.</a>
Gogo meat_popsicle! He's making a training map. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> k tanks, i just wana know if it's gona be in the upcoming beta5
and yo guys, have the MC any effect on players or building around it?
Hey everyone shut the **** up before this gets locked thanks, no one cares when you point fingers or say "OMG YUO ARE AN **** WHOLE"
Back to the discussion, no one has provided a decent argument against forlorn's numbers other than "So and such said x, so and such must be right."
I happen to agree with Forlorn here. This change makes you the invincible onos/fade at a hive , meaning it's going to take more than teamwork to win- it's going to take an act of god.
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Aug 30 2004, 05:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Aug 30 2004, 05:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hey everyone shut the **** up before this gets locked thanks, no one cares when you point fingers or say "OMG YUO ARE AN **** WHOLE"
Back to the discussion, no one has provided a decent argument against forlorn's numbers other than "So and such said x, so and such must be right."
I happen to agree with Forlorn here. This change makes you the invincible onos/fade at a hive , meaning it's going to take more than teamwork to win- it's going to take an act of god. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> go get a life dude.. and calm down... IT'S ONLY A GAME WHAT WER TALKING ABOUT IN HERE... NO REASON TO OVERREACT....
Forlorn hasn't played anything recently, and afaik, shouldn't have played anything of b5 AT ALL.
Not to mention the fact that the regen overflow makes nothing like the difference forlorn says it does.
Ahh, tis' amazing what people can decide from not actually knowing enough <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You guys can rest assured B5 is gonna be worth the wait, there are some great tweaks and changes, and the bug fixes really help. Onwards and upwards, the furture releases *should* be more frequent and i highly doubt b5 = 3 final, its just not the way the roadmap shows anything, so, no idea where that came from.
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Aug 30 2004, 05:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Aug 30 2004, 05:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Back to the discussion, no one has provided a decent argument against forlorn's numbers other than "So and such said x, so and such must be right." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We have.
SHOOT THE HIVE!
No point wasting the ammo on a fade. Even now you waste ammo on fades when your rushing a hive. That's why you shoot the hive.
Comments
Increasing the range of the siege would require lots of changes in all the maps probably, since there are certain areas that aren't meant to be used to siege a hive that would be created.
The fact that beta 5 is not yet in the public domain means that this feature still has a chance of being removed before release.
Playtests should be for testing <i>and</i> trying out new ideas in the process. Which is what seems to be happening.
Maybe the aliens are supposed to have an advantage when they have their hive healing them along with gorges and regen.
PERHAPS THIS IS INTENDED?
You know you could siege, use hmg's instead of shotguns or just jp around the hive and kill it.
Maybe you should adapt instead of having a temper tantrum because you can't be a PT and slandering their ability to playtest "Possible" (note this word forlorn) Changes as in NOT FINAL
Anyway this is my last post on this thread as I've said my spiel <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it's not intended. I talked with Flayra at the CPL and he didn't think it was intended.
Perhaps you don't know what you are talking about.
By the way, saying "Use seige!!1" is rediculous, you are effectively admitting that you can't charge into the hive room anymore. That's about the most rediculous thing I've ever heard come out of anyone. If the only way to take down a hive is to meticulously seige it for about 100 res, EVERY time, then it will be next to impossible to kill hives.
Nice one! Way to playtest.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What you're talking about there is exactly what I mean; testing the gameplay. That's different from actually balancing it, which is a job for the Developers. We can test those balance changes, and make suggestions, but making the changes isn't up to us.
Besides, going off on one about a feature that's being tested in a private build seems a bit excessive to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2 Things:
1. Testing for ( good gameplay = good balance) You can't have good gameplay with poor balance.
2. Going off on "one feature"?!? This "one feature" is probably more gamebreaking than the old techtree of 1.00 complete with unlimited fuel jetpack. Don't try and downplay it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Forlorn, trying to defend yourself with "evidence" of your social life just makes you look like an idiot, whether you have friends or not.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are you talking about? Where's the evidence? Text on a page constitutes of evidence?
Also, what the hell is up with the C*B crew attacking threads en masse? You guys read the forum together over a voice chat program or something?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->alking about balance in public is really, really complicated.
Seems like most people already know how the game will be, without even playtesting the changes.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you know as much about the game as I do and have played it, then yes, yes you would know the balance.
If you want, why don't you go find some good clanners that are playtesters, ask them what they think of regen overflow.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just wait until YOU can play it okay? It's being playtested ffs...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Already have, any other suggestions?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If a new idea turns out to be horrifically unbalanced I trust that the Playtesters will point this fact out and the devs will either tweak it or remove it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wanna point out to me how many times an unbalanced build has been released, or should I?
however they are the PT's. picked by nemesis and flayra. i mean, they arnt gonna pick whackjobs to playtest for them. this is something that the dev team has slaved away on for a long time. they arnt gonna screw it up now.
in short: if they screw up on b5, go for the throat. if they dont, leave em be. but until such time as b5 is released, lay off them. they are, afterall, doing a job in their spare time, for free, and getting hassle over it.
Yes lets not try to fix a problem, lets just sit here and **** after the fact saying "OMG I KNEW WE SHOULD HAVE DONE "X" BUT I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING STUPID PTS FOR NOT READING MY MIND"
Your wording is harsh, but it gets the point accross- a little more though ought to go into these sort of decisions before implimenting them. Forlorn is merely vocalizeing (er, typing) his opinions.
If you want, why don't you go find some good clanners that are playtesters, ask them what they think of regen overflow.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was not talking about you, probably because you already said that you played the beta5 build....
Btw, will the health regenerated by metabolize also overflow?
The lightgamma situation doesn't matter really, people will exploit that within the first day of the patch coming out and there is really nothing you can do to stop it. About overflow for regen, I definately want to try it out, I think Forlorn is going a little overboard with this rant.
Also you mentioned Marine Boosts, are you talking about ones in the previous post or do you mean the ones that you haven't told us yet?
On the PT thing it came off as intended.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wow some of these PT"s have no idea how to balance a game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suppose you coulda been more blunt and called them idiots.
The fact of the matter is Forlorn outside of flayra and maybe 4 other people can stand you. No one likes you
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> By the way, saying "Use seige!!1" is rediculous, you are effectively admitting that you can't charge into the hive room anymore. That's about the most rediculous thing I've ever heard come out of anyone. If the only way to take down a hive is to meticulously seige it for about 100 res, EVERY time, then it will be next to impossible to kill hives.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is it rediculus? Tactics have changed with every single build of NS get used to it and adapt. Can't kill the fade under blinking around the hive. SHOOT THE HIVE. there's a stroke of genius. And to counter "BUT THE FADE WILL KILL YOU" generally you'll be in a group of marines toting shotgun/hmg's/gl's so I doubt 1 fade is a serious issue and it's not like he's going to be acid rocketing you from underneath the hive. Infact your blowing this entirely out of proportion and screaming like chicken little about how the sky is falling.
Also on the playtest thing. They tried that remember forlorn. The vet program where flayra let all the clans in to test 2.1/3.0. Remember how everyone played combat instead of classic even after the major classic bugs were worked out. And infact they shutdown the combat servers just to get people to play classic? And don't you even dare say you tried because you were playing combat with everyone else so you're at fault like all of us. We had our chance and we blew it
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What are you talking about? Where's the evidence? Text on a page constitutes of evidence?
Also, what the hell is up with the C*B crew attacking threads en masse? You guys read the forum together over a voice chat program or something?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seems you edited out "I was out with my friends comment as I can not locate it on this thread so meh
Also user is gone so we're not on TeamSpeak to attack threads en masse
Since you seem to have an issue with basic read comprehension I'll break down this change as easily I can
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Regeneration now overflows health into armor in a single tick when applicable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That means if you're 69/0 as a skulk you get some armor in your next regen tick. This isn't some massive game play altering thing. In fact this change won't do jack squat vs a squad of marines. It'll help you if you retreat and regen but in all honesty 44 armor AT BEST regened won't make a difference vs 3 or more marines especially since in classic the fade won't have carapace. You've blown this out of proportion and questioning the some PT's ability to playtest and convieniently stated you should be a PT and blah blah
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE
Just wait until YOU can play it okay? It's being playtested ffs...
Already have, any other suggestions?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait a minute I thought you weren't a PT which you've painfully let us know atleast 5 times in this thread alone
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
(ebnar) it doesn't have a heavy impact
(user) regen overflow hasnt that been in forever
(ebnar) it helps a lot but it won't make aliens godlike
(ebnar) yeah it's been in since
(ebnar like the third rc or what
(ebnar) so it's nothing
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey there's 2 clanners who are good and they don't think it makes aliens godlike looks like you lose on this one
So forlorn can you make yourself look stupid some more so I can pick your argument apart and force you to defend you internet reputation in vain some more?
There are still changes I haven't mentioned but I was referring to the fact that my previous posts tended to show marine buff's only..
And thanks for the kind words, NS has needed a PR person for a while, and I think we are all seeing why..
Because many things have changed in the last 2-3 weeks (say 21 builds worth), and I'm sure many people would like to know how recent your experiences were?
B5 isn't a final build.. Our main goal was to fix some of the bugs that have been in NS for a while now...
Any balance changes that were added (or new features for that matter) are icing on the cake..
But don't base a final opinion on B5.. It's mainly a bug fix build (and you can see that from the announcement posts)
Because many things have changed in the last 2-3 weeks (say 21 builds worth), and I'm sure many people would like to know how recent your experiences were? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that to suggest that regeneration rates for the Alien team have changed? Whatever the outcome is, however, I'd still like to see how it plays out first-hand.
Dude shut up please. Forlorn gave a very good explaination and then you act like an ****. gj.
<!--QuoteBegin-Al_Kaholic+Aug 30 2004, 11:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Al_Kaholic @ Aug 30 2004, 11:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Whatever the outcome is, however, I'd still like to see how it plays out first-hand. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, let's try it out first and then see. Worst case we would have to fix it.
Because many things have changed in the last 2-3 weeks (say 21 builds worth), and I'm sure many people would like to know how recent your experiences were? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that to suggest that regeneration rates for the Alien team have changed? Whatever the outcome is, however, I'd still like to see how it plays out first-hand.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not implying that at all, but I suspect things may have since he was present.
I'm not a big fan of people who have a portion of information making an opinion on a given subject...
and regen overflow for the win, not to mention the removal of doors, it's like 1.04 to 2.0 all over again <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> [1.04 --> 2.00 saw alot of doors removed]
Are you really nieve enough to believe that if "something's wrong with a patch, we can just fix it!"
In the real world, this is the situation:
NS 3.0 b5 in all likely hood will be NS v. 3.0 final.
Zunni can tell you otherwise, but he doesn't know EVERYTHING Flayra is doing, only what he tells him.
Quick review of what happens between patches:
Version 1.1 anyone? Turned into v. 2.0.
2.1? ----> 3.0 beta builds which took up 5-6 months.
3.0 beta 5 builds? -----> 3.0 final
It's so obvious, I thought I wouldn't even have to point it out... b5 will be renamed version 3.0 final sooner or later. Flayra wants to move on with NS, he doesn't want to take baby steps, he doesn't want to keep playing with NS, he needs to keep his side of things growing or else without him NS will really be dead. He wants to move on with his life.
After all of the manpower behind 3.0 beta 5 so far, it's safe to assume it will be renamed to version 3.0 final. The impression I got from Flayra at the CPL was that he loves NS, but really wants it to be a finished product. Enough with the balance issues, enough with the betas.
Enough is enough, the time has come for a long lasting build. This is what he truely wants.
Beta 5 is not going to be a step, but it will be the top of the staircase.
Chem:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I suppose you coulda been more blunt and called them idiots.
The fact of the matter is Forlorn outside of flayra and maybe 4 other people can stand you. No one likes you<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Calling people idoits is a flame
2. Should I report you for flambaiting?
3. What do you know? LOL "Oh my god guys, my e-popularity is falling!! Quick, quck, what do I do???"
Here's the thing: I do what I think is right. I do not aim to be liked, I do not aim to please you. I aim to make this game as good as possible. I have learned and been told often that my "oppinions" are generally correct in regards to NS. I therefore share them, whether you like them or not.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since you seem to have an issue with basic read comprehension I'll break down this change as easily I can<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How hypocritical.
You said:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That means if you're 69/0 as a skulk you get some armor in your next regen tick. This isn't some massive game play altering thing. In fact this change won't do jack squat vs a squad of marines. It'll help you if you retreat and regen but in all honesty 44 armor AT BEST regened won't make a difference vs 3 or more marines especially since in classic the fade won't have carapace. You've blown this out of proportion and questioning the some PT's ability to playtest and convieniently stated you should be a PT and blah blah<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I said:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In other words, this hive regen system is rediculous. It may sound like "OMG like only 8 shots to make it so the regen won't overflow?" on paper... but in game versus a fade who is blinking around the hive is literally invincible. If you don't keep the damage up every second then he will be at full HP in no time, on top of this all the of the ammo you attempt to kill the fade is wasted as soon as you miss for one second, and you may have as well as fired at the wall, because the wall will die sooner than the fade in a hive room.
This is so bad for the onos I don't even need to describe it to you to understand, the lerk is also similiarly tough as he can just fly on top of the hive and be regened in a split second plus you need perfect aim to kill the lerk with hive regen, and finally the gorge will take twice as much abuse generally.
The only creature who doesn't benifit from the hive regen is the skulk.
And I do believe the general concensus is that the skulk is the only alien that may be too weak - so the hive regen does not help in the early game, and is crushing in the mid to late game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href='http://www.rhlschool.com/reading.htm' target='_blank'>I agree, reading comprehension is very important.</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wait a minute I thought you weren't a PT which you've painfully let us know atleast 5 times in this thread alone<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read what I posted
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hey there's 2 clanners who are good and they don't think it makes aliens godlike looks like you lose on this one<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I meant skilled ones, generally skilled players have much better understanding of gameplay mechanics. That is what makes them good players.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just out of curiousity Forlorn.. How long ago did you sit in on the PT??
Because many things have changed in the last 2-3 weeks (say 21 builds worth), and I'm sure many people would like to know how recent your experiences were?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sooner than you'd think, but in reality it doens't matter as the builds have been mostly bug changes, right? The only balance changes are few yet slightly significant.
In the downtime, I'm constantly updated by various sources whom I can trust.
I've been watching from what's probably a better position to judge than you, and as far as I can tell, everything seems to point to the next release being beta 5, not 3.0 final. I'll be happy to eat those words if I'm proven wrong, but I really think that's the case.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Zunni can tell you otherwise, but he doesn't know EVERYTHING Flayra is doing, only what he tells him.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you do?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the downtime, I'm constantly updated by various sources whom I can trust.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's odd, because I thought Playtesters weren't supposed to be giving out information without getting it approved by Zunni or another Dev.
Now, forlorn, maybe in b5 there will be a shift of tactics. S-I-E-G-E. You may say it costs 100 res, but that's 100 res to take down a hive. Instead of having HMGs and shotties, drop sieges and siege the hive! 5 LMG marines can hold back an onos or a fade for enough time for the sieges to go up. Commander pings, fades are scared of being hurt by sieges, and you've pretty much taken the hive. Shotty/HMG rushes are meant to be suprise tactics. You don't rush in there when there are 4 fades and 2 onos in there. If you do that, thern maybe you should lose.
I think that this will help out alot. No more "omg 2 hive lockdown we lose" for aliens. Fades can actually manage to take hives! This will help stop some of the lame and boring games, but it won't stop them all unfortunately. Yes aliens will be tough to kill on their home turf, but they won't be impossible, and if they are (which you've clearly assumed), then back out and siege for a tactical retreat. I think this just encourages siegeing. It isn't that big of a gameplay change.
cause i really think you guys should do one, 2 many nubs are playing the game and getting owned or laughed at and not to mention getting LOST and been like "what's this big green thing attached to the wall there?" and "who's voice is that? that's real uggly voice" <------ alien computer talking...
so ya Hazard course would really help the mod a lot
I hate to break it to you but ebnar and user have more skill in their index fingers then you have in your entire body. Infact they seem to have a better grasp on the beta 5 changes than you do as they've actually played it. So instead of pulling details out of your hind parts and saying you played the recent build which is very unlikely since you'd have to live near someone who was a PT and if you're like this in the real world I doubt anyone would want to be near you
Obviously you're not out to be liked or else you'd might be a PT. Sorry I implied that.
That still brings the question forth. Why do you slander the PT's
Also on the reading comprehension
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In fact this change won't do jack squat vs a squad of marines. It'll help you if you retreat and regen but in all honesty 44 armor AT BEST regened won't make a difference vs 3 or more marines especially since in classic the fade won't have carapace. You've blown this out of proportion and questioning the some PT's ability to playtest and convieniently stated you should be a PT and blah blah<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh look the fade mentioned gee you musta just read the first sentence and ASSumed the rest
*golf clap*
And here's a clue Forlorn. If you want to do what's right. Don't post and spare us your baseless arguements on something minor as regen overflow
You haven't played it and going I PT"ED IT SOONER THAN YOU THINK WINK WINK
Isn't backing up your claim. Infact it makes you look like a liar scrambling for some witty retort as your argument falls apart.
Also I sadly read what you posted. Just because you don't flat out say. I SHOULD BE A PT BECAUSE THEY'RE STUPID doesn't mean you didn't intend it. Hell I don't think there's a person here who thinks that wasn't intended as was brought up by the first person to read your post calling you out on it. Defend yourself if you must but it really is all in vain
I'll be awaiting your counter retort full of holes and basless facts so I tear that apart aswell
cause i really think you guys should do one, 2 many nubs are playing the game and getting owned or laughed at and not to mention getting LOST and been like "what's this big green thing attached to the wall there?" and "who's voice is that? that's real uggly voice" <------ alien computer talking...
so ya Hazard course would really help the mod a lot <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Check the mapping forum, or rather <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=76128' target='_blank'>this thread.</a>
Gogo meat_popsicle! He's making a training map.
cause i really think you guys should do one, 2 many nubs are playing the game and getting owned or laughed at and not to mention getting LOST and been like "what's this big green thing attached to the wall there?" and "who's voice is that? that's real uggly voice" <------ alien computer talking...
so ya Hazard course would really help the mod a lot <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Check the mapping forum, or rather <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=76128' target='_blank'>this thread.</a>
Gogo meat_popsicle! He's making a training map. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
k tanks, i just wana know if it's gona be in the upcoming beta5
and yo guys, have the MC any effect on players or building around it?
Back to the discussion, no one has provided a decent argument against forlorn's numbers other than "So and such said x, so and such must be right."
I happen to agree with Forlorn here. This change makes you the invincible onos/fade at a hive , meaning it's going to take more than teamwork to win- it's going to take an act of god.
Back to the discussion, no one has provided a decent argument against forlorn's numbers other than "So and such said x, so and such must be right."
I happen to agree with Forlorn here. This change makes you the invincible onos/fade at a hive , meaning it's going to take more than teamwork to win- it's going to take an act of god. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
go get a life dude.. and calm down... IT'S ONLY A GAME WHAT WER TALKING ABOUT IN HERE... NO REASON TO OVERREACT....
[no offence]
Forlorn hasn't played anything recently, and afaik, shouldn't have played anything of b5 AT ALL.
Not to mention the fact that the regen overflow makes nothing like the difference forlorn says it does.
Ahh, tis' amazing what people can decide from not actually knowing enough <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You guys can rest assured B5 is gonna be worth the wait, there are some great tweaks and changes, and the bug fixes really help.
Onwards and upwards, the furture releases *should* be more frequent and i highly doubt b5 = 3 final, its just not the way the roadmap shows anything, so, no idea where that came from.
We have.
SHOOT THE HIVE!
No point wasting the ammo on a fade. Even now you waste ammo on fades when your rushing a hive. That's why you shoot the hive.
Either that or siege.
And as madmaxx says, it really doesn't matter.