ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Aug 27 2004, 11:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Aug 27 2004, 11:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I almost feel bad for Zunni because he has to clean up all this ****.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I appreciate that.. But don't it's part of my job..
I also can't speak to what happened before I got here, but the NS dev team is comprised of professionals, regardless if you believe it or not. There is just a tremendous amount of work for the few people doing it atm. A large chunk of that has been relieved with my arrival and I think we are all focussing on our own specific areas and making great strides forward in progress.
Moving forward though, in regards to release dates, I have worked in computer software for 8 years (I think I said 10 somewhere else. it's actually 8, sometimes it feels longer), I have seen release dates set and pass by without a word from a development team.. I have seen what this has done to customer confidence.. and I am saying to you.. That will not happen as long as I'm here... I have a very specific set of things that must be done before I'll even consider mentioning a release date.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But after laziness, lies, and a general attitude (at least that I'm getting) of 'I don't care', we finally get some information, it's ANOTHER buff for marines, and they can't even confirm or deny that Acid Rocket will change.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think (and again I don't want to speak too much out of turn) that there was just too much work to be done (in regards to PR etc) and they did the best they could...
As for the Acid Rocket bit.. Let's say I say "yes, it's changed", then 1 week from now, we are doing testing and it's out of whack.. so we change it back.. Now I have to tell the entire community, oops that was changed back.. and continue this over and over again as things I release change...
I'm not interested in doing that dance, and I suspect you aren't interested in being my partner in it..
I guess, I underestimated the anger people have felt over the delays and as such haven't really moved to address them...
The dev teams seems to have a misconnception about how people want to be informed. On the subject of AR they've said nothing about its long overdue change. Even if they gave me a blip in a post of 'testing som new values, no clue how it will turn out' i would feel SO much better than not hearing anything at all. When i hear about 'ammo drop with weapons' i say, sure that's cool, but i don't realy care about that issue now. What about the issues i do care about? They don't say anything! I'm not even asking for a when and how, i'm just asking for 'it's in the works' or 'on the todo list after changes X and Y' It doesn't take much to show the team cares about the community, even if they can't give them an answer.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The dev teams seems to have a misconnception about how people want to be informed. On the subject of AR they've said nothing about its long overdue change. Even if they gave me a blip in a post of 'testing som new values, no clue how it will turn out' i would feel SO much better than not hearing anything at all. When i hear about 'ammo drop with weapons' i say, sure that's cool, but i don't realy care about that issue now. What about the issues i do care about? They don't say anything! I'm not even asking for a when and how, i'm just asking for 'it's in the works' or 'on the todo list after changes X and Y' It doesn't take much to show the team cares about the community, even if they can't give them an answer.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that I've done multiple news posts in the last 2 weeks shows I care about the community.
The fact that I've given not only specific information but Screen Shots detailing how the changes will look show that I care about the community...
But because I can't/won't say yes or no to an AR change, shows that I don't??
I think what their trying to say is that we want to be given information on what's being fooled around with and asked what we think about it. The fact that all we see is finished projects and not things that are being fooled with is annoying to me. I'm not saying give us all the info, I just mean tell us a little about what you guys are changing and what your fooling around with or even just tell us a few things on the "try this out" list. I don't really think we'd make a big deal about it if you were to tell us about two or three items you guys are thinking of trying out and then decide it doesn't work or you don't like it. Personaly, I think your doing a good job about telling us what's been put in but we want to know a little more then that. Also, I think it's fun just to fantasize about what this or that would be like in NS even if it ends up being scraped. Anyway, ya. Give us a little more information please.
Precisely. That's almost exactly what old NS was like. Flayra has a lot of posts on his postcount, and it's because you could post a question on here like 'Hey Flayra, I heard that such and such will change' and he'd reply 'I've heard that too and it's sort of correct... actually we're going to do this and that...'
I have to say that Zunni is doing a fantastic job, simply because in two news posts, he's given more information then we used to in a year. But that too is what I'd like to see, even just a simple dev saying 'Yes we know it's broken, no we don't know how to fix it.'
A good example is Combat. I personally had fantastic fun in Combat in beta 1, and I know damn well a lot of people liked it too. All it needed was the bug fixed where your respawn wouldn't slow down if you didn't spend your levels. Instead, without asking anyone, or even listening to input, combat degraded. I wont' even think of playing it now, because I play games to have fun, not to play for only 10 minutes. If I wanted to waste 10 minutes I'd go look at porn or something. Beta 2 was even somewhat good combat. The respawn system was the only thing that changed, and I know I remarked, as well as others, that beta 1 and beta 2 combat respawn systems should be combined into one, and you wouldn't have issues with spawncamping, nor would it be impossible to take a hive.
It just seems very counterintuitive to me.
A good example is the flashlight. I think everyone agrees that both are useless. Naturally, no one can agree on how it's best to change. I personally think that the alien flashlight should change based on number of hives, and the marine should work like a flashlight actually should. A post from a dev member saying 'Yes we know flashlights are lame. Here's what we're thinking...' would be wonderful
i don't mean to be harsh on you Zunni you're the only one in <i>the know</i> that doesn't end every post you make with <span style='color:red'>***<u>LOCKED</u>***</span>
Poor poor Zunni. I bet you never knew the snake pit you'd be climbing into when you took the job of Public Relations. This thread is a perfect example of the desperation the average NS player feels, though. Bear in mind that for a lot of us here, NS is a pretty important part of life. As silly as that may seem to some, everyone has their hobbies, and they use those hobbies to let of the stress of life. With most of us here, our primary escape is NS. Not for everyone here, of course. But probably for most of the people posting so vocally. (Then again, some are just argumentative and hard-headed. <3 EEK)
So when the people who have control over something that's pretty important to you leave you hanging for a loooooong time with no word as to what's going on behind the scenes, it gets aggravating. So what happens when someone sticks their neck out and starts actually passing out some slight crumbs of information? Some tiny sparkling droplets of data in this vast arid desert that stretches between the betas? EVERYONE jumps on it and rips into it to extract all the nourishment they can from it. What else would you expect?
It's not hard to find self-titled NS experts in these forums. But there's some truth in those titles. People who spend hours daily involved in the game get pretty familiar with it. Ask anyone who plays NS more than once every few days, and they can rattle off a list of the most important bugs that need to be fixed ASAP. They can give you a diatribe of what, to them, are obvious balance problems. They'd even be happy to give you a few tiny ideas of ways to improve the game without having to change much at all. Get them really excitable and they'll even have ideas for more sweeping gameplay changes. But we never get that far. People love the bug tracker, because it at least allows them to have some slight information on what bugs are known and how they are intended to be fixed. It's not very exciting news, but when it's all you can get, you take it.
So a heartfelt THANK YOU to Zunni for stepping into the line of fire of this massive buildup of angst just waiting for a convenient target to come along. You're a brave, brave man. But be prepared. Now that people have a target, you're going to just keep getting all the shots fired right at you.
If you Dont want New Features to Be added, Might I direct you to www.redphive.org You can download the original NS 1.0 there, and you'll never have to worry about anyone adding new stuff to it. An Update has to have both new features and Balance changes. Otherwise you get a Stagnant Mod. Which after a while becomes no fun. Case in Point: I dont see anyone playing Cold Ice anymore.
<!--QuoteBegin-BrigadierWolf+Aug 27 2004, 03:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BrigadierWolf @ Aug 27 2004, 03:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you Dont want New Features to Be added, Might I direct you to www.redphive.org You can download the original NS 1.0 there, and you'll never have to worry about anyone adding new stuff to it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's rather harsh. I thought it was clear that people are asking, nay -- BEGGING for long standing problems to be fixed before nifty new features are added.
If we waited to fix every bug before implenting new features, You wouldnt be playing anymore. You can fix Bugs for Eons. and when youre done, youll find NEW bugs. As for Balance. Yes, Balance is important, But do you want a perfectly balanced, horribly repetitive game? I would hope not. I for one would hope people would want a dynamic game that actually changes over time, adding new things as it goes along. Ill name you a great, perfectly balanced game that'll never have anything changed though: Checkers. You wouldnt want to play Online Checkers, would you?
I definitely would like more dev feedback ... it sometimes seems to me that easy, small, and good suggestions for changes are completely ignored, and as EEK said, suddenly there appears a crazy new change. Things like acid rocket, or xenocide, or alien flashlight were overlooked, and instead we got Onos Can Eat People, Cool!!!
2 big projects of mine on this forum are 1) getting S&I the attention it deserves and 2) the tron glow effect. Both of them hinge entirely on the level of how much devs or mods actually care about the forums. S&I has been completely ignored, save "locked" messages. Beta Disc. is a slightly more sophisticated version of S&I, but garners almost the same lack of real dev involvement (eg, "that's a good idea") that S&I does. And the glow thread had a single comment from Flayra, saying "that's interesting! try it in the future" and nothing else. I currently have 0% hope for that glow feature getting in just because I am so familiar with the way ideas or changes on these forums are ignored.
I wish I'd at least be able to see how many posts there are in all the secret forums, just so I can be reassured that the devs are doing <i>something.</i> Let me tell you, from the eyes of an S&I dweller, it does not look promising at all. I haven't seen a mod talk about a suggestion since Martigen's unlocked evolutions. And unchained chambers - look at the following that got on the forums; people still have the avatars - and we got treated to a near-gimmick dropping-ammo feature instead of that?
I don't care if you don't have any concrete progress on the feature (ie having models created); all I want to see is "We are planning to do this." Stop being afraid of telling people what's tentatively planned, as some dev told us. You care about the reaction on the forum when features are pulled? How about the reaction on the forum when we're just in the dark forever? I got over the change of metabolize from ninja-awesome to uninteresting. I have not gotten over the feeling of consistent ignorance from the devs.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't care if you don't have any concrete progress on the feature (ie having models created); all I want to see is "We are planning to do this." Stop being afraid of telling people what's tentatively planned, as some dev told us. You care about the reaction on the forum when features are pulled? How about the reaction on the forum when we're just in the dark forever? I got over the change of metabolize from ninja-awesome to uninteresting. I have not gotten over the feeling of consistent ignorance from the devs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess this is the crux of the issue..
I've just started posting information... Information that has been withheld too long, so people see a small leak forming and want to cause the dam to burst..
Well, sorry it doesn't work that way, I will continue posting a few details of the change log at a time and allow the majority of people to continue looking forward to B5..
I will become more active in I & S but no-one has given me any idea of what they wanted to see there yet.. So we'll have to see where that goes..
One other thing to remember, one of the things is those people who (like me) are addicted to this forum, read all the forums.. So they have all the little tidbits of data, most of the community doesn't.
Part of my job is to ensure that all users regardless of community involvement or vested interest have the same information so there is no more "I think I heard voogru say once in a forum post that ....." and allow full and complete information accessable to all with little effort.. That's one of my goals.. and by responding to individual threads that nullifies that effect.
k, I must say zunni is doing a great job, I have def. noticed a real change in things since he joined the team.
Also, look at Mantis. That's something I have been totally neglecting myself. The "feature request" part of mantis is also pretty interesting, because it shows what's being considered (no unchained chambers there, tho)
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Aug 27 2004, 11:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Aug 27 2004, 11:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Maian+Aug 27 2004, 11:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maian @ Aug 27 2004, 11:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> EEK, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and you obviously aren't going to change yours. But let me remind you that beta 5 is supposed to be a "clean slate." It's composed primarily of bug fixes and features the devs have been working on for a while. After that, balance takes a priority. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You don't find it insulting that they lied to us? A simple listenserver crash bug they said. Nothing about still implementing new features and playtesting them. If they had just SAID 3 months ago that a release date wasn't visible, if they just SAID that progress was being made too slowly and they're still implementing features on the 23rd, I probably wouldn't even be having this argument. But after laziness, lies, and a general attitude (at least that I'm getting) of 'I don't care', we finally get some information, it's ANOTHER buff for marines, and they can't even confirm or deny that Acid Rocket will change.
I almost feel bad for Zunni because he has to clean up all this ****. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> My point was that it's too early to say NS 3.0 final is going to be biased toward marines. I didn't say anything about how the NS devs and staff interact with the community. Personally, I mostly agree with Windelkron, though I'm not as annoyed. In addition, I must say that Zunni is doing a great job so far.
BTW Zunni, get an avatar <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
devicenullJoin Date: 2003-04-30Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I think one of the problems is we've had a few dozen _good_ idea's, that didn't effect gameplay much, but would make ns a lot more fun to play. All these ideas are somewhere in the depths of the S&I forums. You might as well close the fourm if no one will even look at that forum.. I think maybe once there has been someone who *might* have an effect look at that :/
I would've been perfectly fine if you had never told us a release date, but instead just decided one day to release. But having a date missed by a month just seems sad.
And I have done programming, "On time, no bugs. Choose one" I know release dates are hard to make, so don't even give them to us. Just pick a single day and release, don't tell anyone until the mirrors find the exe in their email.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think one of the problems is we've had a few dozen _good_ idea's, that didn't effect gameplay much, but would make ns a lot more fun to play. All these ideas are somewhere in the depths of the S&I forums. You might as well close the fourm if no one will even look at that forum.. I think maybe once there has been someone who *might* have an effect look at that :/
I would've been perfectly fine if you had never told us a release date, but instead just decided one day to release. But having a date missed by a month just seems sad.
And I have done programming, "On time, no bugs. Choose one" I know release dates are hard to make, so don't even give them to us. Just pick a single day and release, don't tell anyone until the mirrors find the exe in their email.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Few minor things:
1) I wasn't in this position the last time a release date was announced 2) I believe I said this at least once in this thread and at least 3 times publically. That's not the way things will be handled moving forward 3) I've also publically stated that I'll be checking out the S&I forum (check it if you don't believe me)
Please read all the posts before replying.. Thanks!
Now I have a new concern. We've added a middleman. Obviously, Zunni listens to us. Much love for that. But, pray tell, will your superiors listen to YOU?
EEK, i really do hope so, sad to know about your bad experiences.
Props to Zunni for having to put up with our ****. Hopefully having a new PR guy is a sign of things to come, things that prove that the dev team still cares about the community. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
YAY ammo dropping... um wat else is gonan be in it? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-murphyt4+Sep 2 2004, 11:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (murphyt4 @ Sep 2 2004, 11:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> YAY ammo dropping... um wat else is gonan be in it? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Stuff they haven't told us yet.
Oh and by the way brigadier, I'll let you know that CHECKERS ISN'T BALANCED AT ALL! Red gets to go first! Way unfair. That's why I quit checkers.
Anyone who says this isnt needed is completely unaware of how **** entired squads of marines are when a shotgunner dies with no ammo. It's becomes a disasterous chain reaction of picking up an empty gun and a skulk can practically parasite every rine to death as they struggle to get the freaking shotgun off themselves.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lt. Hendrickson+Sep 3 2004, 02:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt. Hendrickson @ Sep 3 2004, 02:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Anyone who says this isnt needed is completely unaware of how **** entired squads of marines are when a shotgunner dies with no ammo. It's becomes a disasterous chain reaction of picking up an empty gun and a skulk can practically parasite every rine to death as they struggle to get the freaking shotgun off themselves. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Whatever squads you are in, they're full of pussys.
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I almost feel bad for Zunni because he has to clean up all this ****.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I appreciate that.. But don't it's part of my job..
I also can't speak to what happened before I got here, but the NS dev team is comprised of professionals, regardless if you believe it or not. There is just a tremendous amount of work for the few people doing it atm. A large chunk of that has been relieved with my arrival and I think we are all focussing on our own specific areas and making great strides forward in progress.
Moving forward though, in regards to release dates, I have worked in computer software for 8 years (I think I said 10 somewhere else. it's actually 8, sometimes it feels longer), I have seen release dates set and pass by without a word from a development team.. I have seen what this has done to customer confidence.. and I am saying to you.. That will not happen as long as I'm here... I have a very specific set of things that must be done before I'll even consider mentioning a release date.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But after laziness, lies, and a general attitude (at least that I'm getting) of 'I don't care', we finally get some information, it's ANOTHER buff for marines, and they can't even confirm or deny that Acid Rocket will change.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think (and again I don't want to speak too much out of turn) that there was
just too much work to be done (in regards to PR etc) and they did the best they could...
As for the Acid Rocket bit.. Let's say I say "yes, it's changed", then 1 week from now, we are doing testing and it's out of whack.. so we change it back.. Now I have to tell the entire community, oops that was changed back.. and continue this over and over again as things I release change...
I'm not interested in doing that dance, and I suspect you aren't interested in being my partner in it..
I guess, I underestimated the anger people have felt over the delays and as such haven't really moved to address them...
I'll work to improve this in the future..
-Zunni
When i hear about 'ammo drop with weapons' i say, sure that's cool, but i don't realy care about that issue now. What about the issues i do care about? They don't say anything! I'm not even asking for a when and how, i'm just asking for 'it's in the works' or 'on the todo list after changes X and Y'
It doesn't take much to show the team cares about the community, even if they can't give them an answer.
When i hear about 'ammo drop with weapons' i say, sure that's cool, but i don't realy care about that issue now. What about the issues i do care about? They don't say anything! I'm not even asking for a when and how, i'm just asking for 'it's in the works' or 'on the todo list after changes X and Y'
It doesn't take much to show the team cares about the community, even if they can't give them an answer.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that I've done multiple news posts in the last 2 weeks shows I care about the community.
The fact that I've given not only specific information but Screen Shots detailing how the changes will look show that I care about the community...
But because I can't/won't say yes or no to an AR change, shows that I don't??
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm confused?
I have to say that Zunni is doing a fantastic job, simply because in two news posts, he's given more information then we used to in a year. But that too is what I'd like to see, even just a simple dev saying 'Yes we know it's broken, no we don't know how to fix it.'
A good example is Combat. I personally had fantastic fun in Combat in beta 1, and I know damn well a lot of people liked it too. All it needed was the bug fixed where your respawn wouldn't slow down if you didn't spend your levels. Instead, without asking anyone, or even listening to input, combat degraded. I wont' even think of playing it now, because I play games to have fun, not to play for only 10 minutes. If I wanted to waste 10 minutes I'd go look at porn or something. Beta 2 was even somewhat good combat. The respawn system was the only thing that changed, and I know I remarked, as well as others, that beta 1 and beta 2 combat respawn systems should be combined into one, and you wouldn't have issues with spawncamping, nor would it be impossible to take a hive.
It just seems very counterintuitive to me.
A good example is the flashlight. I think everyone agrees that both are useless. Naturally, no one can agree on how it's best to change. I personally think that the alien flashlight should change based on number of hives, and the marine should work like a flashlight actually should. A post from a dev member saying 'Yes we know flashlights are lame. Here's what we're thinking...' would be wonderful
you're the only one in <i>the know</i> that doesn't end every post you make with <span style='color:red'>***<u>LOCKED</u>***</span>
so mad props to you.
So when the people who have control over something that's pretty important to you leave you hanging for a loooooong time with no word as to what's going on behind the scenes, it gets aggravating. So what happens when someone sticks their neck out and starts actually passing out some slight crumbs of information? Some tiny sparkling droplets of data in this vast arid desert that stretches between the betas? EVERYONE jumps on it and rips into it to extract all the nourishment they can from it. What else would you expect?
It's not hard to find self-titled NS experts in these forums. But there's some truth in those titles. People who spend hours daily involved in the game get pretty familiar with it. Ask anyone who plays NS more than once every few days, and they can rattle off a list of the most important bugs that need to be fixed ASAP. They can give you a diatribe of what, to them, are obvious balance problems. They'd even be happy to give you a few tiny ideas of ways to improve the game without having to change much at all. Get them really excitable and they'll even have ideas for more sweeping gameplay changes. But we never get that far. People love the bug tracker, because it at least allows them to have some slight information on what bugs are known and how they are intended to be fixed. It's not very exciting news, but when it's all you can get, you take it.
So a heartfelt THANK YOU to Zunni for stepping into the line of fire of this massive buildup of angst just waiting for a convenient target to come along. You're a brave, brave man. But be prepared. Now that people have a target, you're going to just keep getting all the shots fired right at you.
You can download the original NS 1.0 there, and you'll never have to worry about anyone adding new stuff to it.
An Update has to have both new features and Balance changes. Otherwise you get a Stagnant Mod. Which after a while becomes no fun. Case in Point: I dont see anyone playing Cold Ice anymore.
You can download the original NS 1.0 there, and you'll never have to worry about anyone adding new stuff to it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's rather harsh. I thought it was clear that people are asking, nay -- BEGGING for long standing problems to be fixed before nifty new features are added.
As for Balance. Yes, Balance is important, But do you want a perfectly balanced, horribly repetitive game?
I would hope not. I for one would hope people would want a dynamic game that actually changes over time, adding new things as it goes along. Ill name you a great, perfectly balanced game that'll never have anything changed though: Checkers.
You wouldnt want to play Online Checkers, would you?
it sometimes seems to me that easy, small, and good suggestions for changes are completely ignored, and as EEK said, suddenly there appears a crazy new change. Things like acid rocket, or xenocide, or alien flashlight were overlooked, and instead we got Onos Can Eat People, Cool!!!
2 big projects of mine on this forum are 1) getting S&I the attention it deserves and 2) the tron glow effect. Both of them hinge entirely on the level of how much devs or mods actually care about the forums. S&I has been completely ignored, save "locked" messages. Beta Disc. is a slightly more sophisticated version of S&I, but garners almost the same lack of real dev involvement (eg, "that's a good idea") that S&I does. And the glow thread had a single comment from Flayra, saying "that's interesting! try it in the future" and nothing else. I currently have 0% hope for that glow feature getting in just because I am so familiar with the way ideas or changes on these forums are ignored.
I wish I'd at least be able to see how many posts there are in all the secret forums, just so I can be reassured that the devs are doing <i>something.</i> Let me tell you, from the eyes of an S&I dweller, it does not look promising at all. I haven't seen a mod talk about a suggestion since Martigen's unlocked evolutions. And unchained chambers - look at the following that got on the forums; people still have the avatars - and we got treated to a near-gimmick dropping-ammo feature instead of that?
I don't care if you don't have any concrete progress on the feature (ie having models created); all I want to see is "We are planning to do this." Stop being afraid of telling people what's tentatively planned, as some dev told us. You care about the reaction on the forum when features are pulled? How about the reaction on the forum when we're just in the dark forever? I got over the change of metabolize from ninja-awesome to uninteresting. I have not gotten over the feeling of consistent ignorance from the devs.
I guess this is the crux of the issue..
I've just started posting information... Information that has been withheld too long, so people see a small leak forming and want to cause the dam to burst..
Well, sorry it doesn't work that way, I will continue posting a few details of the change log at a time and allow the majority of people to continue looking forward to B5..
I will become more active in I & S but no-one has given me any idea of what they wanted to see there yet.. So we'll have to see where that goes..
One other thing to remember, one of the things is those people who (like me) are addicted to this forum, read all the forums.. So they have all the little tidbits of data, most of the community doesn't.
Part of my job is to ensure that all users regardless of community involvement or vested interest have the same information so there is no more "I think I heard voogru say once in a forum post that ....." and allow full and complete information accessable to all with little effort.. That's one of my goals.. and by responding to individual threads that nullifies that effect.
Also, look at Mantis. That's something I have been totally neglecting myself. The "feature request" part of mantis is also pretty interesting, because it shows what's being considered (no unchained chambers there, tho)
You don't find it insulting that they lied to us? A simple listenserver crash bug they said. Nothing about still implementing new features and playtesting them. If they had just SAID 3 months ago that a release date wasn't visible, if they just SAID that progress was being made too slowly and they're still implementing features on the 23rd, I probably wouldn't even be having this argument. But after laziness, lies, and a general attitude (at least that I'm getting) of 'I don't care', we finally get some information, it's ANOTHER buff for marines, and they can't even confirm or deny that Acid Rocket will change.
I almost feel bad for Zunni because he has to clean up all this ****. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point was that it's too early to say NS 3.0 final is going to be biased toward marines. I didn't say anything about how the NS devs and staff interact with the community. Personally, I mostly agree with Windelkron, though I'm not as annoyed. In addition, I must say that Zunni is doing a great job so far.
BTW Zunni, get an avatar <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I didn't even have a sig until this afternoon, I thought something was wrong with me.. But I forgot my firewall doesn't handle things correctly..
So I have an avatar, let's see if it works!
I would've been perfectly fine if you had never told us a release date, but instead just decided one day to release. But having a date missed by a month just seems sad.
And I have done programming, "On time, no bugs. Choose one"
I know release dates are hard to make, so don't even give them to us. Just pick a single day and release, don't tell anyone until the mirrors find the exe in their email.
I would've been perfectly fine if you had never told us a release date, but instead just decided one day to release. But having a date missed by a month just seems sad.
And I have done programming, "On time, no bugs. Choose one"
I know release dates are hard to make, so don't even give them to us. Just pick a single day and release, don't tell anyone until the mirrors find the exe in their email.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Few minor things:
1) I wasn't in this position the last time a release date was announced
2) I believe I said this at least once in this thread and at least 3 times publically. That's not the way things will be handled moving forward
3) I've also publically stated that I'll be checking out the S&I forum (check it if you don't believe me)
Please read all the posts before replying.. Thanks!
Props to Zunni for having to put up with our ****. Hopefully having a new PR guy is a sign of things to come, things that prove that the dev team still cares about the community. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Stuff they haven't told us yet.
Oh and by the way brigadier, I'll let you know that CHECKERS ISN'T BALANCED AT ALL! Red gets to go first! Way unfair. That's why I quit checkers.
Whatever squads you are in, they're full of pussys.